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Helen
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Maria B. wrote:
| Be careful ... this is very important, but so hard to hear for those of us with dhs that are non-Catholics. It makes the job harder, but not impossible by any means. |
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There are people who practice their Faith who did not have fathers who practiced. When looking for a common thread as to what "worked" the role of the father seems to be paramount.
The Lord hears the cry of the poor
the children of the needy he cares for
(paraphrase of a psalm)
I think that if a woman's husband doesn't practice any faith, if she turns to God in prayerful poverty, begging God to provide for her children's spiritual life, she can trust in God's loving care.
Wouldn't the honest, prayerful practice of a non-Catholic Faith be a good example to a child and win graces for his future?
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hopalenik
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Hi,
I have to wonder if some of the failings of those whose children left in 60's and 70's wasn't naivete to the power and influence of the culture and pride that there kids would just follow in the footsteps of the parents. I am not speaking personally about Von trap or Newland (I have not read either work). I am thinking in general from what I witnessed in my "catholic Culture".
I grew up on the West Side of Cincinnati where everyone was Catholic. My entire family and neighborhood was Catholic and we all went to Catholic schools. But almost no that I know is practicing their faith and I certainly left for quite some time. When I think back, I got the feeling that the parents were just clueless as to what the teenage culture was really like and therefore they were not even thinking about innoculating us against it. I think that the parents of thise generation were very complacent with thier materialistic things and societal conformity-so no one actively rocked the boat by complaining to the schools or local government when things made them uncomfortable. I think that the parents and grandparents were not aware at how powerful and tempting the TV and rock music were...these things were still only one generation from inception.
When you start adding all of those things together-lack of vigilance from encroaching evil in society, pride in believing that only the bad kids would do drugs or have sex, comfort in materialism and the easy way of being faithful-passing on the teaching of faith and morals to the teachers in sunday school instead of doing it at home....well it is no wonder to me that most of my friends did leave the faith even though many of the came from large and devout families...
For our generation the temptations may be worse and certainly are more obvious but we at least are raising our kids with our eyes open from day one...we no longer just assume that raising good kids means that they will remain faithful as adults or even while they live at home. I may not have expressed this clearly-I am not so good at succinctness but I feel in some ways we have it slightly easier than those who were raising their kids in the 50's through the 80's....at least we see the world and the media for what it is really like rather than through the rose colored glasses that my parent's generation saw.
Holly
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aussieannie
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This thread has been WONDERFUL reading, thank you for starting it Elizabeth!
I just wanted to comment on Maria Von Trapp - who I love, but there were things I remember in her autobiography that I wanted to mention..
She must have been pretty hard on her husband for when he died, she was racked with guilt and contrition for her behaviour that she wanted to physically dig him up to tell him how sorry she was - that is a very strong feeling to have.. From memory too, she moved into a more charasmatic approach in order to help her free herself from this guilt (my memory can be vague, please correct me if I'm wrong on any point...)
So where was the loss of faith, mainly in George's children or with all of them? My mother's mother became Catholic due to her mother marrying a Catholic man after the death of her first husband. He was not greatly loved by the children from the first marriage and even though they all had to become Catholic, my grandmother did not continue the faith with her own family - she didn't go back to her former denomination but became non-practising, so much so, none of my mother's siblings were baptised.
My mother went for instruction herself, at 18 and then became responsible for the baptism of all her brothers and sisters. But my mum is still the only practising Catholic. Step parenting must present some difficult challenges and I am sure many fail to a certain extent due to parents not rising above their own emotions and feelings.
There may have been resentment by Maria's step children due her treatment of George (even though it is obvious she loved him) but Maria was probably very different in her behaviour to her husband than their own mother...
Were her own children favoured at all? I remember reading that her little boy was the 'apple of her eye'...
In the movie you are presented with this very strong love and bond between Maria and the children but when I read the book it didn't quite come across to the same extent.
I just wonder if these particular events would have played a part in the situation.
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Maria B.
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Another comment ...
My mom, a devout Catholic, offers her two Holy Hours each week to her children and grandchildren. I feel those prayers often ... daily. I also take great comfort knowing that my mom is praying for me. My seven siblings are practicing Catholics, but there have been some "rough" spots on some of their journeys and continue to be!). But I really think it is my mom's prayers that are the basis for helping us all to remain faithful. Of course, my father (who died when I was 17) is keeping watch over us as well.
My point is, prayer on the parents for their children's faithfulness is so important.
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hopalenik
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One more thing-what I meant by pride...I can remember one family that had lots of kids-more than 10 and all at Catholic school...Mom said she was unconcerned about premarital sex and drugs because those things did not happen in families that were not raised well. I don't know that any of her kids or grandkids are really Catholic anymore and I think that the constant barrage that she has lived under by all of the defections (for lack of a better word) has worn down her own faith.
I grew up living next to a family that did drugs-lots of drugs but we lived in upper class suburbia. I remember at the age of 10 telling the neighbors and my parents what was wrong but no one believed me because those things happen only in poor neighborhoods. They were wrong and woke up to the police raiding the house.
I grew up with a good Catholic family 2 doors down, were Dad was a practising homosexual and actively doing his stuff in the woods with other married, Catholic men. My friends and I saw it all and went home to tell our parents but no one believed us because good Catholics don't do those things...They finally found out that I was right 15 years later, when the wife found out and killed herself.
While these anecdotes should make us sad, we can also look at the differences between our situation and have some hope. I know a few homeschooled families where one or 2 kids have not retained the faith but more are keeping the faith than leaving it...I am certainly prideful but I am fearful enough of my own abilities to parent that I have to be humble and beg God for grace...and if my kids came and said so and so is doing drugs or something else bad-I would probably believe them and take appropriate precautions. I screen out the music and TV and make it a point to talk about modesty, and the evil in media. And I have the positive notion of hindsight-those parents who were vigilent in the 50's or so, could only say-well contraception might lead to abortion or homosexuality...I can say immodesty leads to abortion, and homosexuality and porn and...And I actually have friends who are discussing this topic-I asked my mom...she never discussed these things with her friends until it was far too late...
Holly
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mary theresa
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This thread is so thought-provoking.
One of my thoughts as I read this -- sometimes people can write about and speak about something so well-- for example, living the liturgical year, or holiness, or homeschooling, or charity or whatever it may be, but when it comes the most important part, doing, there can be a disconnect. A wise statement that I heard that I try to keep in mind: "Sometimes those with the most to say are the ones that don't say anything."
I hope what I saying isn't misunderstood  I'm not trying to make a statement about Maria Von Trapp or anyone else just putting forth a thought that how someone appears to "the world" and how they might be to their family can be so different.
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Ruth
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Maria B. wrote:
Another comment ...
...prayer on the parents for their children's faithfulness is so important. |
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Thank you, Maria. This is so true.
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Maria B.
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Maria B. wrote:
| My point is, prayer on the parents for their children's faithfulness is so important. |
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I meant to say ".. prayer on the parents part for their children's faithfulness is so important."
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Ruth
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Maria B. wrote:
Maria B. wrote:
| My point is, prayer on the parents for their children's faithfulness is so important. |
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I meant to say ".. prayer on the parents part for their children's faithfulness is so important." |
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I think I know what you meant.  This is still a great quote. 
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Erin
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I have thought long and hard on this topic over the years, so I have another thought to add to the 'tank' In my own family some of my siblings don't practice and yet they do believe in the real presence and would never consider leaving the Catholic Church to join another. I have a brother who gets into debates with strangers on the infallability of the Pope (he holds to Catholic teaching of course) Why have they left? Well you could say for some of my siblings my parents breakup played a big part and be partly true, but what we have to all really face is the lure of the world is strong.
It takes a verystrong character to withstand the pressures of a pagan world today. The above brother for example was extremely strong and withstood the world for many years before caving in. And lets be really honest with ourselves, sin can be attractive, it can be fun. Once you have started down that slippery slope it is easier to gain monmentum. And in today's world our young people are often going it alone it is hard to find like minded people and when you are surrounded by so many others...not to mention the bombarment of media and its effect.
So what can we do to prepare our children? Frequent Communion and Confessionand teaching our children self-denial. It is through learning to bend their will to God's that our children will have an edge in self-control. I look back at another brother who is not practising at present and rememer him as a small child who raged and never learnt self-control and I see a man who really hasn't progressed too far 
Self-denial I often joke is one of the best 'Catholic inventions' There have been times in my life that I have realised that the formation of self-denial has halted the 'slippery slope'. Because I can say no to myself. (and the world, the flesh and the devil )
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Bookswithtea
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Fwiw, as much as I would love a checklist where if I do "these things" right, my children will all love the Lord more than I do, I don't think it exists.
A few years ago I was even a bit angry with the early hsing movement books that gave me the impression (mistaken, I believe) that homeschooling, a love of God and a happy family life would guarantee happy, God loving children. I've seen enough hers now to know that it ain't always that way.  Moreover, I was involved in a passionately Jesus loving group in college, comprised of both protestants and Catholics. Several did long and short term mission projects. I cannot believe how few of them even attend church anymore. I'm still befuddled by the whole thing, given that we were so close and their passion for the Lord was genuine. I have two friends from my early mothering days who were passionate about Jesus...both have since completely left any version of Christianity, and both of them have bitterness toward Christianity, too. My sibling and I were raised in the same family. Let's just say that we live very different lives now. 
God gave us and our children free will. And sometimes they (and we) choose poorly. And sometimes I don't think its the parent's fault.
I've been thinking a lot about St. Monica lately. I can do all the right things, with all the right motives, but in the end, prayer is my first and last line of defense. And when it keeps me up at night, I try to remember that God loves my children even more than I do. But there are no guarantees. I don't know what makes one Catholic family grow into vibrant faithful adults and another lukewarm or nonpracticing.
I don't think we will ever know. But in the end, it may very well have nothing to do with upbringing or parents.
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Tina P.
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Fwiw, as much as I would love a checklist where if I do "these things" right, my children will all love the Lord more than I do, I don't think it exists.
A few years ago I was even a bit angry with the early hsing movement books that gave me the impression (mistaken, I believe) that homeschooling, a love of God and a happy family life would guarantee happy, God loving children. I've seen enough hers now to know that it ain't always that way. My sibling and I were raised in the same family. Let's just say that we live very different lives now.
God gave us and our children free will. And sometimes they (and we) choose poorly. And sometimes I don't think its the parent's fault.
I've been thinking a lot about St. Monica lately. I can do all the right things, with all the right motives, but in the end, prayer is my first and last line of defense. And when it keeps me up at night, I try to remember that God loves my children even more than I do. But there are no guarantees. I don't know what makes one Catholic family grow into vibrant faithful adults and another lukewarm or nonpracticing.
I don't think we will ever know. But in the end, it may very well have nothing to do with upbringing or parents. |
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Thank you, Books. Very well said. I too, was brought up in a very tight Catholic family. And oh, does my mother know and deal well with suffering! My sisters married Catholics, my brothers married non-Catholics and became non-Catholic. And I married a non-Catholic and brought him to the Church. Turning your back on the faith could be a sign of the times, it could be having to work with priests who are harmful to your character, it could be weak faith formation in school, or resentment/envy toward parents/family. There are ever so many variables. The only certain thing is that we can't beat ourselves up over the fact that our children as adults may or may not remain rooted in the faith. We can only do our best and pray, pray, pray.
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mariB
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I had a conversation with a dear friend today. We both agreed that to push our children in faithfulness could ultimately backfire. Like all the wonderful ladies suggested preceeding this response, the key is prayer.
I would love to bring my children to daily mass, say the complete Rosary with them, and spend lots of time reading spiritual books with them.
We do listen to the mass reading almost daily, we do 3 decades of the Rosary together, and we are reading a book on Pope John Paul II. But it is in very small increments.
My friend and I also agreed that living the walk was the most important thing of all. Our children are watching us whether we know it or not. The reason that I love the Lord so much is not so much what my parents taught me but their EXAMPLE. Even when I was away from church for a few years, when I stepped into a Catholic church I felt I was home and I could feel God's love for me which in turn called me back.
I will pray for strong Catholic children in my family and in ALL of yours.
Let us not worry but commit everything to our dear Lord and His mother who loves us so much and want our children in heaven MORE than we do!
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hopalenik
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Home Schooling: One of the Great Movements in History
(Remarks by Dr. Mary Kay Clark, President of Seton Home School, on acceptance of the Brent Society Award for her work in home education, May 31, 2007)
Faith the size of a mustard seed can be strong enough to move mountains. But a mustard seed is also small enough to slip through one’s fingers and be lost in an instant. In Pope Benedict’s book “Introduction to Christianity”, he likens the modern believer to a man shipwrecked and holding on to a single plank, with nothing else keeping him safe. The Pope writes, “The situation of the contemporary believer could hardly be more accurately and impressively described. Only a loose plank bobbing over the void seems to hold him up, and it looks like he must eventually sink. Only a loose plank connects him to God, though it certainly connects him inescapably, …and in the last analysis, he knows that this wood is stronger than the void that seethes beneath him and that [void] remains, nevertheless, the really threatening force in his day-to-day life.”
As the Director of Seton Home Study School, there are many happy moments, such as at our high school graduation, which give public evidence of the fact that the Faith still lives in young Catholic families. But there are difficult times at Seton, too. The most difficult is when I have a parent call and tell me that she has five children, and that all but the last child has lost the faith. She wants to enroll in Seton Home Study School to try to save her last child. Think about that for a moment. Of all the children given to this family, all but one has lost the faith. The parent understands that if she does the same things with this last child, that last child will be lost as well. “Help me save my last child,” the mother pleads, sometimes sobbing!
I think the work that Christendom College (in Front Royal, VA) is doing is tremendous. It is training the leaders of the future. It is giving them a strong education in theology, and philosophy, and political science that is rarely available elsewhere.
But what I see at Seton, and what I am told by parents, is that countless numbers of children are lost before they ever make it to college. Without a grounding in the faith, starting at a very early age, and going through the high school years, these students will never have a chance to have a truly Catholic college education. They have been lost long before college.
When I was growing up in the 1950’s, parents had little concern about turning their children over to others for their Catholic education. Even those who went to public school rather than parochial school could count on the society to reinforce most of their Christian faith. Even those who grew up with a merely superficial acceptance of the Faith were not likely to lose their faith in high school or college.
However, with just vague ideas about the faith and perhaps not living the faith as deeply as they should have, many parents of the l960’s and l970’s were ill-equipped to deal with the challenges. Society, even Catholic educators, started telling their children that the Catholic Faith was old-fashioned and useless and that they ought to find answers for themselves. Young people wanted answers and their parents, who weren’t experienced in defending their faith, didn’t readily have the answers. And so, many young people were lost. Without real understanding, how tenuous is our hold on that plank of faith that Pope Benedict mentions?
The Bible tells us that our attitude toward faith should be one of totality. In the Old Testament, parents are told to teach their children the faith when they got up and when they lay down and all the time in between. Besides formal teaching, the Church teaches there is also the necessity of daily example of living the life of holiness in the family. Our faith should be all around us, in what we see, in what we hear, in how we are spoken to, in what we listen to, in what we read, in how we dress, and in our manners and courtesy with each other.
One of the principles that we stress for our Seton families is living the liturgical year. The Church in its wisdom understands that our Faith should give structure to our daily lives. And so we have the seasons of Lent and Advent to anchor the year, and all the holydays and feasts of the saints to sacramentalize our lives. Feast days such as St. Patrick’s Day, St. Valentine’s Day and All Saints’ Day are not merely excuses to throw a party or have a parade. They are truly part of our Catholic identity. They remind us what we believe and what our lives are about, in this world and in the next.
Another point we stress at Seton is Catholic art. The heritage of sacred art is so vast and so beautiful, yet we rarely see Catholic art outside of Church, and in many cases today, not even in Church. At Seton, we have made it a point in the books we publish to include great Catholic art, from Raphael and Fra Angelico and Murillo and Rubens and Rembrandt. In the days before printing presses, when the ordinary people did not have books to read, they learned their faith mainly through religious art. We believe that our Catholic children, and we ourselves, can come to love our Faith, and to draw closer to Jesus and Mary, through great religious art. In fact, without Jesus and his beautiful Blessed Immaculate Virgin Mother as inspirations of art, would there ever have been great art?
A family which is immersed in Catholic culture provides a home in which children have a real opportunity to learn the faith and to live the faith. Such a family is, in the words of the theologians a “domus ecclesia”—a domestic church. Such a family is a domestic church because it sanctifies and strengthens its members in the Faith.
The Church is clear in its documents, especially in the encyclical letter Christian Education of Youth. Pope Pius XI repeats the traditional teaching of the Church that all education should be permeated with Catholic teachings. It is based on these teachings of the Church that Seton has produced about 100 Catholic textbooks.
The late Father John Hardon said that times are coming when only extraordinary families will survive as Catholic families. I believe that the best way for families to become extraordinary, and to survive as Catholic families, is through home education. Catholic Home education gives a child the protected surroundings and space he needs to grow intellectually and spiritually, without constantly having to be on guard against the assaults of the secular world, without having to daily resist the popular classroom ideas against family, marriage, and children.
The Catholic home schooling movement is one of the great movements in history. Father Joseph Fessio, the founder of Ignatius Press, has likened the Catholic home schooling movement to the monasteries of Europe during the Middle Ages. The so-called Dark Ages following the fifth century were very similar to the age we are in now. The Roman Empire was invaded from without, and corrupted from within. From the outside, the barbarians destroyed much of the civilization that had been built up by Rome. From within, the Arian heresy, which denied the Divinity of Jesus, had damaged the Church beginning in the fourth century.
However, in the first half of the sixth century, God raised up St. Benedict, who established the first Benedictine monastery, followed by many more monasteries. These monasteries quickly spread throughout Europe, restoring the culture and making it Catholic.
At the height of the Middle Ages, there were 37,000 monasteries in Europe. The population of Europe at that time was about 25 million people, approximately one-tenth the current population of the United States. If the United States had the same proportionate number of monasteries, we would have 370,000 monasteries in this country, or about 1,000 monasteries in every American diocese.
We do not have that number of monasteries in our country today, but we do have the home schooling families who are preserving our Catholic Faith and our Catholic culture. One thousand Catholic home schooling families in each diocese would surely cause a cultural revolution in this country.
The monasteries grew throughout Europe because the people were attracted to what the monks had to offer. Those who saw how the monks lived, wanted to live that way themselves. Those who saw the faith and joy of the monks, wanted that faith and joy themselves.
Today, more and more people see Catholic home schooling families and realize that they want what those families have. They want that type of committed family and home life. They want that type of active faith. They want to know where to go and what to do with their lives.
What they see are Catholic home schooling families regularly receiving the sacraments of the Holy Eucharist and Penance, saying the daily Rosary, revolving their family life around the feasts of the liturgical year. They see Catholic home schooling families active in pro-life activities.
Catholic Home Schooling is not superficial to the life of the Family, Catholic Home Schooling is not superficial to the life of the Church, it is not superficial to the life of the nation. It is central. Catholic home schooling is a principal cause for hope to overcome the secular values of our society. Catholic Home Schooling is an important key to authentic Catholic renewal.
Finally, I would like to say a few words about Front Royal, Virginia. Within a stretch of about a mile in Front Royal are located the campus of Christendom College, as well as the world headquarters of Seton Home Study School and Human Life International. There are many stories about the origin of the name Front Royal. It is believed that during the Revolutionary War, when captains were mustering their troops, they called the men to “Front the Royal Oak Tree”.
If we look carefully, however, there is another meaning for the term Front Royal. When a country is at war and the king has gone to battle, the area or “front” where the king is located to lead his soldiers, that area is called the Royal Front or Front Royale. So we believe it is no coincidence that Seton, Christendom, and Human Life International, certainly in the forefront of the Catholic battle against the secular culture, are to be found at the Front Royale. Because we are engaged in a battle royal, with the Heavenly King of Kings at our side.
St. Peter tells us to be ready to give reasons for the hope that is in us. If you would like to see more reasons for hope, I invite you to come to the Front Royale and visit us. You will find it is worth your effort to visit the beautiful Shenandoah Valley and drive down the stretch of road where Jesus Christ is King.
Praised be Jesus Christ.
I tried and failed by Dr. Mary Kay Clark says it very well.
__________________
Holly
Mom to dd 10, twins dd and ds (transplant as baby that failed 05/09, permanent dialysis patient) 8 , dd 5 and dd 3 1/2 and dd in Feb 2009. 2 I hope to meet in heaven.
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ALmom
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The bottom line is the Grace of God.
What is in Seton's newsletter is true, but incomplete as we do have to live in the world, though not be of it. Not everyone can move to Front Royal and benefit from a lovely Catholic support network. One particular program does not suit all - the approach was way too heavy handed for one of our daughters and we saw it actually harming our dd - and discerned that if we didn't find something else that worked for her, she might not be able to withstand the temptations against faith that her sufferings were causing. We changed, she survived that onslaught, thanks to God and it strengthened her to face the next. Please pray for all of us living in environments where support isn't all it is supposed to be. One of my dc told me, "You know it is awfully hard to be a good Catholic, there is so much you have to give up." My heart ached as I know there should be joy in faith, joy in all of this, but when you are trying to be faithful without a lot of spiritual support/reinforcement, it is hard. I pray that she gets through this period to the other side and finds the joy as well.
Some of us have no choice but to deal as best we can with irregularities in the Mass, etc. Our children are harmed in myriad of ways through the poor examples around them, the failure of local parishes to assist in the spiritual needs, the neglect of duty on the part of bishops, priests and parents, a sense that we seem to always stand out as odd balls .... There are many things in my area that I cannot control, and sometimes I lay awake at night crying and praying for my children and even myself. Sometimes anger is a problem and I explode in inappropriate ways - mouthing off at what we have dealt with.
I believe my mother was/is saintly. She learned early to lean on God, to pray, to frequent the Sacraments. She certainly had a difficult early childhood. Both my parents were raised Catholic in the same town, etc. My mom had one step brother. My dad had 7 siblings. My dad's parents were both Catholic. My mom's stepmother was Baptist, her dad was Catholic.
When my mom's severe sufferings came, she had the spiritual support of some lovely nuns who were faithful to their calling. This support helped her even later when she suffered alongside my dad and remained strong and faithful for him. When my dad's sufferings came, he seemed abandoned even by his own parish. He never left the church but there were times when bitterness was more in the forefront and when he ceased being regular in religious duties. I don't think he ever completely froze his heart. Both of my parents, in the midst of their sufferings, strove with all their strength to turn to God, to call on Him. When my dad went through his sufferings, our parish had just "remodeled" and had left statues, even the altar relics may have been left here as they have disappeared, in the gutter. My dad was unemployed with 5 children and had been unjustly treated by his employer (the company years and years later was sued and lost because they made a point of letting go everyone within a year of being vested in retirement - this happened to my dad and he spent all the years of my high school being a good dad providing as best he could, which in his case meant going to Iran, Korea, Kuwait, .... and still getting laid off after doing the jobs no one else wanted (involving risk of life esp. in Iran as he was there just before the Shah fell and was dodging terrorists). God alone knows the sufferings of my dad and only he knows the degree to which any of us are culpable in our faults and weaknesses. I always knew, without a doubt, that my parents loved me with all their hearts and were trying to do the best they could to raise us right.
Of the 5 of us, 3 are now Catholic (we struggled with the faith in some way without formally leaving), 2 of us left and 1 of those is anti-Catholic. None of us married Catholics, though 2 of these spouses are now Catholic. We are all close as siblings and care about one another though we have the normal annoyances and misunderstandings.
Someone wanting to judge might argue that my father's bitterness affected us, or that my mom's inability to answer questions in the faith or her trusting .... But any failures on my parents part, and we all have these, were not intentional and in many cases were beyond their ability to control. My mother had a lazy eye that was never corrected and she has always had trouble with academic learning (she could not dig and provide us with apologetics type answers, but she did what was in her power to do and prayed intently).
My formal religious ed was pathetic (but I did see my grandparents praying the rosary and reading the Bible, I did see how my mom turned to God in all her struggles and even how hard my dad struggled to remain faithful in difficult moments. My religious ed was a repeat of Jesus Loves you, be nice. I was never taught the 10 commandments, anything about the Sacraments or anything particular about Catholicism. I don't even remember being told about the death and resurrection of Jesus. Any Bible miracles were explained away as somehow natural or symbolic. I wanted to love God with all my heart (why or how that was there is beyond me - the sacrament of Baptism, I presume). People failed me at times. I had questions that weren't answered or were answered with a lie. I was given so much dribble - but kept going back to the latest CCD program (even after my parents discerned that whatever was happening there, it wasn't helping our faith and they gave permission for us to quit)to see if this time they'd teach me something. Somewhere around 6th grade, I came to the conclusion that Catholics were not Christians and was going to convert and become Baptist (because this was the faith of most of the people that I saw making serious efforts at loving God, and in my simple mind, therefore it must be the true faith). The local Catholics were too busy trying to make us feel good about how things were and most of the Catholic kids I knew were getting in trouble with drinking, smoking, etc... I even remember trying to figure our why Protestants I knew had such trouble with Catholics on the Eucharist since, as far as I could tell, the Catholics didn't believe anything different than the Protestants. We just had the Eucharist more often and called it by a different name. Certainly, the behaviour at Mass confirmed me in my erroneous conclusion. It was only due to the Protestants insistence that we were wrong here, that I even kept looking to figure out what the difference was. Anyways, it is a long and humorous story about how I remained Catholic - and it has a lot to do with my dh who was not raised as anything and was not even baptized when we were married but out of the blue (when I found out he wasn't Christian and started suggesting we try different churches as that might help), told me that if you believed in God, only the Catholic church made any sense. Of course, now I could not go anywhere else and in the process, I learned why I really could not go anywhere else. Thanks be to God. I was sure too clueless to have found my own way.
I also attribute those funny circumstances God used to bring me around to the prayers of my godparents (I found out a few years ago that they had my picture on the mantle of their home and prayed for me daily - I never really knew them or even saw them until a few years ago), the rosaries my grandmother prayed and the prayers of my mother. I suspect there are other prayers unknown to me.
So now, I figure that I need to spend my time praying and trying to fulfill my duty to the best of my ability. I tell myself and my children that we are crazy if we think we will survive and remain faithful without Christ in the Sacraments, in prayer and especially in the Sacraments of Eucharist and Confession. I don't easily trust and the priests that I build enough trust to ask to be spiritual directors are gone before I get the chance - all of them have been assigned out to the boonies somewhere. I do have Mass and the Sacraments and have to plead and cry that God will help me as he knows how weak I am.
The thing that this whole discussion has made me think about is our responsibility to be there for one another - prayerfully and in practical ways. There are always individuals along the way who stand out as essential in helping you home (whether you left formally or not- and you are fortunate indeed if you have always been surrounded by good and holy people who form that background of support). Have I prayed enough for my godchildren, my in-laws, my cousins ... And when I am honest, I have to answer sadly, not nearly enough.
I wouldn't even want to ponder what was behind the leaving of those mentioned at the beginning of this thread. I only see families who strove to do the best they knew how to do - and if their children are still living, they may still come home, or at least, make it to the family in heaven. We can add our prayers to those of their parents who surely do not forget them.
We must all, in the end, simply rely on the providence of God. Easy to say, I find it tough to do. I hope and pray I am never blind to the needs of those in my midst. It is easy to miss the heartaches that are hidden and the child that is trying to be faithful, but is suffering, often falls through the cracks because they seem to be doing so well. I pray to always know the heart of my children.
Janet
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Jen L.
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Yes, Janet. I agree.
We need to
do everything that we can,
PRAY,
and know, that given free will, there are no guarantees.
And don't give up (think St. Monica)
Boy, is it hard.
ETA: That said, I still think this is an important topic and am enjoying it/thinking a lot about it.
__________________
Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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Leonie
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I don't know what went wrong ( or right) with those authors - but I do know that there is a time when adult children have to make the Faith their own, make their own choices.
My three adult children practice and live their Faith. Did we do anything right?
Dh is a cradle catholic; I am a convert.
I think it was/is relationship - our relationship with our children. We shared ( share) our Faith within the context of our lives - not doing everything well, I admit, but sharing those imperfections, our growth, our reliance on the Sacraments, and the journey, too.
It's not so much living the liturgical year ( although we do that, too) but living every day, every moment, every season together, with our Faith - sharing the Faith, the good times and hard times, the prayers and sufferings, the joys..
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Jen L.
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Hard hitting (for me) words of wisdom from St. Anthony...
"Actions speak louder than words; let your words teach and your actions speak. We are full of words but empty of actions, and therefore are cursed by the Lord, since he himself cursed the fig tree when he found no fruit but only leaves. It is useless for a man to flaunt his knowledge of the law if he undermines its teaching by his actions."
– St. Anthony of Padua
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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Jane Ramsey
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Leonie wrote:
I don't know what went wrong ( or right) with those authors - but I do know that there is a time when adult children have to make the Faith their own, make their own choices.
My three adult children practice and live their Faith. Did we do anything right?
Dh is a cradle catholic; I am a convert.
I think it was/is relationship - our relationship with our children. We shared ( share) our Faith within the context of our lives - not doing everything well, I admit, but sharing those imperfections, our growth, our reliance on the Sacraments, and the journey, too.
It's not so much living the liturgical year ( although we do that, too) but living every day, every moment, every season together, with our Faith - sharing the Faith, the good times and hard times, the prayers and sufferings, the joys..
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This is so true, Leonie.
It is said that most people come to the Christ through a "personal invitation," that is, someone who is a devout Catholic and introduces them to the Faith. Obviously, if you had stained relationship with the person who invited you, you'd be reluctant to accept the invitation...
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onemoretracy
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I have loved reading MRN books and I have to admit I was scandalized and sad to read Elizabeth's initial post in this thread.
I am particularly interested in the whole concept of living the liturgical year. Learning about it through HS this year has been a catalyst for forming a new apostolate where groups of women meet and discuss ways to implement some liturgical ideas into their homes.
I think the main thing for me to remember is that all of these beautiful traditions and feasts are not the ends, they are just the means. I need to remember to constantly keep the end picture (eternity in Heavan with Our Lord) in my mind and heart as I am instilling these traditions in our home and sharing them with other mothers and wives. Flexibility in expectations, overwhelming charity and understanding are crucial for me to keep the big picture in mind. I need to remind myself over and over that my spiritual journey is unique and it is foolish of me to try to control or judge how others live out their calling from God.
The liturgical year and is a gift, a tool given to us by Christ through the Church to learn to love and live with more holiness. But again, it is only a means, one of many that we have been given. I don't want to place all of my eggs in one basket here so to speak! 
__________________
Tracy
DH Lee
DS Jake-10
DS Ryan-9
DS Luke-6
DD Laine-6
DD Mary Clare-3
DD Sara (Dec.6 '08)
My Blog
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: What went wrong? What went right?
