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Cathmomof8
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Molly,
Reading your post was almost like reading what I could have written a couple of years ago. Our eldest was full of anger like Charlie and treated me horribly. Dh really didn't know how to step in and handle it. It was horrible for the younger 6 kids - every day Matthew saying horrible things to me and about me, saying how horrible hsing was, ranting and raving one minute and then, like you said, talking about a movie as if nothing had happened. This son of ours had never been to school, had wanted to be a priest from the time we was about 5yo, was VERY interested in our faith and wanted to study theology and philosophy up until he was 16yo. He was very trustworthy and compliant, loveable and very communicative with me. We were very close. Too close? Is that possible? In 6th grade, I can see in hindsight that some of the problems started - he questioned the schoolwork, needed dragged through a lot of it, etc. Nothing I considered major but I see in hindsight where some attitude problems were developing.
But through all of that he was still very respectful of our rules. He joined the youth group in 9th gr and things went drastically downhill. His anger escalated, his dissatisfaction with our home life grew, he started to everything - mostly me. Later I found out that they were teasing him about being a 'faggy little Mama's boy'. It may have been all in 'good fun' but he had little experience with dealing with ribbing from other kids. Since then I believe he has worked hard to get rid of this image.
Anyway, we had to, for the sake of the family, let him go to school his junior year. he is a senior now. I honestly don't know if that was the best choice. It seemed to be our best option and it is really still too soon to know how it will all pan out. He has made horrible choices in many things. Never would I have guessed that I'd be talking to my teen about , alcohol and smoking like I've had to. He listens to awful music that I believe has brought him down and eroded his faith. I feel we've been on a wild train ride that I don't know how to stop and I don't know where we'll end up.
The good part - my relationship with Matthew is better than it has been in years but I worry, pray and try hard to choose the battles. I've tried hard to give him a pleasant voice and face to come home to. I try to listen and not get too excited about the things he says - often I think to shock me. When Matthew is getting his own way, he is an amazingly charming person. When told 'no' he retreats to the verbal temper tantrums, attacking all I hold most dearly. These explosions though are less and less - thank you God. I worry about how things will be though when he turns 18 in March. I pray he can hold it together till the fall when he will be going to a Catholic college. He is very intelligent, well liked wherever he goes, gets good grades with little to no effort, and works hard at his job. Wherever I go, people that know him from work tell me what a wonderful young man he is. sigh.
I'm rambling. I have no answers. Just know that you are not alone. It is very hard I think to hs teenage boys in general - especially if the Father isn't really leading them, overseeing them and a strong presence in the home. I've often wanted to go and talk to a priest, but have chickened out I guess or never made the time. Daily, I pray for guidance to handle all of the incidents of the day. Lately I pray alot that I don't do or say anything that leads my children away from their faith. I have 3 teenage boys and a preteen boy right now, and the youngers. I feel your pain.
I appreciate Tammy's suggestions too. I've really had to work hard to not let my teens dictate my mood but it is so hard. It is hard to live with people you love, but who treat you like the enemy. And it is very hard to see the children that you have hsed, taught the faith to, loved and loved some more, seemingly reject all that you have taught them. It's shocking to hear these kids who you spend night and day with tell you that you don't love them. The king of deception, the liar of liars is at work in our teenagers it seems. As a wise priest told me on Christmas Eve, "the Holy Spirit is working on them where they are at. But they are under attack. We must continue to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet for them over and over again"
Oh, I could write on and on on this subject and probably not really say anything helpful. Fortunately for all of you ;) my family needs me.
I'm up for another novena for our teens. Seems the 54 day novena is popular here right now. Maybe I should try to commit to that also. And lent is coming....
forgive me, no time to reread and edit...
Peace and prayers,
Theresia
Mom of 8
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Leonie
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Molly, I am praying - Charlie is in my morning St Anthony Novena.
Can I just say something?  I think its hard to be strong but sometimes that is what we need to be. If Charlie now feels he has "won" and can try the same tactic to get what he wants in future, then I pray that you will be strong and stop this cycle.
Let him know that no matter how he acts up you and dh will not renege on decisions , whatever the current issue is - so, if he does test the limits, stand strong. This is SO hard but so important, I find.
At Kumon ( my work) we talk about rewarding the behaviour we want and not rewarding the undesirable behaviour. Its something I try to keep in mind.
Hugs  and prayers...
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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teachingmom
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Praying for you all, Molly!
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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MarilynW
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Dear Molly - I have been praying for you.I hesitate to offer advice as I have never been in a similar situation and never had counseling. But I just want to share 2 things with you that keep coming to my mind:
- Art and Larraine Bennett have a counseling center in No VA called the Alpha Omega center. They are Catholics and I have heard that many families have benefited from their counseling. (Larraine wrote the book "The Temperament God Gave You)- I am on my way out right now - I can send you the link this afternoon when I am back, if you wish
- Pray about the boarding school thing.My brothers went to a very "good" Catholic Jesuit all boys boarding school - and especially for my one "difficult" brother it killed his faith - and 30 years later is still struggling with a lot of the issues. Only one of my brothers came out of it with any faith. Most had a lot of anger.
Praying and praying
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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Leonie
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Molly,
I prayed the Litany to St Anthony for your family this morning. Perhaps others can join in with praying this litany?
More hugs...
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Angie Mc
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I will gladly pray the litany, Leonie. Thanks for sharing.
Molly, in addition to my prayers, I thought I would mention a practical note about finding a counselor. It is common for the woman of a family to work with a counselor on her own, in order to tend to her family needs. In other words, it isn't always necessary for the whole family to be in counseling...especially at first. Mom/wife can get her needs met, build a relationship with the counselor, show her family through example how the relationship is beneficial, talk about what she has learned, then (possibly) attract other family members to counseling as well. Also, the same counselor can see family members separately...in other words, the whole gang doesn't have to be seen in the same room at the same time.
Does counseling work? At a minimum, it can carve out time for a person/s to tend to important issues. Sometimes life gets too busy and, well, crazy, that just setting time aside is a step in the right direction. A good counselor (one who is experienced, respects your faith, etc.) can help a person/s sort through life's difficulties and make plans to face the future with hope. A great counselor can love the person/s in a way that allows them to tap into the truth of the situation and help their clients to be accountable while they change patterns that are harmful.
I'm especially sympathetic with the fact that you love your dh and you love your son and want to do what is best for all involved. A concept that has helped me in a similar situation is thinking about relationship triangles. As with all advice, please take what you like and leave the rest. Oh how I hope you can receive some relief soon!
I'm so sorry for your worry, Molly. I'm also confident that your "yes" to God...to tend to the needs of your dh and your teen who is having difficulties...is very pleasing to Him and He will give you all the grace you need.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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BrendaPeter
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Angie Mc wrote:
Molly, in addition to my prayers, I thought I would mention a practical note about finding a counselor. It is common for the woman of a family to work with a counselor on her own, in order to tend to her family needs. |
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This is a great point Angie. I've noticed that ever since I started seeing a spiritual director, it has really affected things on the homefront for the better.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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momwise
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Angie Mc wrote:
| it isn't always necessary for the whole family to be in counseling...especially at first. Mom/wife can get her needs met, build a relationship with the counselor, show her family through example how the relationship is beneficial, talk about what she has learned, then (possibly) attract other family members to counseling as well. |
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This is very good to hear from you Angie, since it's come down to this for me; if I want anyone to be in counseling it's going to be me alone.
Also, if the first counselor doesn't work for you start looking for another. I've had 2 already that haven't worked out and they were both Catholics.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Maria B.
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Molly, You will be in my prayers tonight.
God' peace,
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Maria in VA
Proud Mom to 10 Great kids!
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Servant2theKing
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Dear Molly,
Your life could be ours several years ago, when our oldest ds was in his teens. The dynamics in our family were very similar and life was absolutely torturous. So many things the dear women have shared here, I wish I had known then. Thanks be to God you have others who have gone before you on this path who can share wise counsel and pray for you and your family.
One concern I feel led to share...if at all possible, you and your husband need to try to act as a united front and work together for the sake of your entire family. My husband and I were never totally united and that was the root of most of our family problems. Pray to St. Joseph for your husband in all of this.
One thing is certain, anger will never resolve family problems...it only deepens them and hurts everyone. By the same token, it is not healthy to allow an angry teen to get his way simply to avoid conflict. You and your husband need to be in healthy, holy authority over your household, and together let your son know that you will not allow anger to dictate decisions in your home. May God bring grace, insight and healing to all of you and may He guide you through these difficult times.
One thing that helped most with our own son was to see his vulnerability beneath the angry sullen face that had replaced our beloved child. When he spit out venomous talk I forced myself to look into his eyes and see the baby I had loved and cherished so very much and love him no matter what. Loving him did not mean caving in to his requests or demands....instead, my response was no longer rooted in anger, but in unconditional love...even when I had to lovingly and gently, yet sternly, let him know he could not have his way. We had to love him enough to stand firm in our beliefs and uphold the standards and rules we established for our household. Eventually he moved out of our home and ended up going from bad to worse in many unhealthy situations. When his choices finally led him to prison, we never stopped loving him and tried in every way possible way to continue to communicate our love for him. Divine Mercy takes on a much deeper and richer meaning when you are forced to pour forth mercy on a precious family member who hurts so much that they hurt everyone else around them.
I don't know if you've considered drugs, alcohol or pornography as factors in your son's attitude or actions, but I would strongly consider those as possible contributors. I learned, after the fact, that those were huge factors in our situation. Parents who are faced with the possibility of such things in their home cannot run the risk of turning a blind eye for the sake of peace at any price, especially when the souls of younger children are at stake. It's time to reclaim our homes and families and entrust them to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and we must be diligent to cleanse them of the evil one's influence.
Recently, while praying for many families we know who are faced with trial after trial, especially with their firstborns, it occurred to me that Herod is STILL at work...his tactics have changed though...now, he no longer strives to kill the body...instead he's trying every possible means to destroy the souls of our children. But, we have Almighty God, the grace of the sacraments, a host of angels and saints, and the entire Mystical Body at our beck and call, night and day, to counter his attack. We need to take Flight into Egypt and place a hedge of grace around our children and our families and defeat the Enemy, once and for all! BE NOT AFRAID! It may seem dark and dismal when we are faced with such times as these, but we are incredibly blessed to live in this age...we have so many profound teachings that have never before been revealed to such a depth....Theology of the Body is just one example! We have more wondrous saints in Heaven than ever before,to cheer us on and intercede before the throne of grace!.
Molly, and others, take heart, we WILL make it to the other side of this valley of tears and we must trust that each and every member of our families will be there with us oneday! May the Love and Mercy of Christ guide us and lead us all Home.
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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esperanza
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God Bless you for sharing...I needed to here this today as my dh and I are in need of evaluating some teens here..stand united and firmly implement some changes ..investigate..follow through and love unconditionally 
-definitely in need of prayers here..I'm rather exhausted physically and emotionally.
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In His Peace,
Tammy Gonzalez in VA
dh-Johnny
mom to Tara-'85, Noelle-'88, Jeremy-'91, Elizabeth-'93, Emma-'96, Dominic-'99, Gabriel-'01, Elijah-03
and Jacinta-06
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Willa
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Servant2theKing wrote:
| Recently, while praying for many families we know who are faced with trial after trial, especially with their firstborns, it occurred to me that Herod is STILL at work...his tactics have changed though...now, he no longer strives to kill the body...instead he's trying every possible means to destroy the souls of our children. But, we have Almighty God, the grace of the sacraments, a host of angels and saints, and the entire Mystical Body at our beck and call, night and day, to counter his attack. We need to take Flight into Egypt and place a hedge of grace around our children and our families and defeat the Enemy, once and for all! BE NOT AFRAID! |
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Wonderfully said, Servant!
I absolutely agree and the way you put it is beautiful.
Oremus!
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Willa
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Counselling did not work for me in my teen years, dear Molly. If anything it made me more cynical and angry.
But it could have been the method used -- Rogerian, "reflective listening" -- was ineffective for my situation, plus that it was thoroughly secular and targeted to me individually, so it felt egocentric and unrealistic. The counsellor was a nice man so it wasn't his personal fault but the meetings didn't affect my heart.
My dear friend is a Catholic family therapist and she tries to work with the whole family situation and provide a toolbox of skills that everyone can work on together. That doesn't mean everyone has to meet at the same time -- Angie's advice was good on the specifics, I think. This is what I would look for if I were ever seeking counselling nowadays. But it might be different for others.
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AMDG
Willa
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Cathmomof8
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Servant,
Thank you for your post and perspective. Having a wayward teen has brought me to my knees like nothing before ever has.
I especially agree about the united front too and believe many of our problems came from a perception at least that I was in charge and that dh just was doing what I told him. This really wasn't the case but I am the vocal one and also the one home with them all of the time. And dh, I think didn't feel the confidence to know what to say or do and so said or did nothing - which gives it's own message. Part of our eldest ds rebellion of the faith is certainly a rebellion against ME. I can only hope and pray that when he is on his own he will see that he can choose truth for himself.
No time to keep rambling. We have LOTS of snow here in Ohio today. Thanks everyone for your posts.
Theresia
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teachingmyown
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I have been meaning to stop back here and update for a while.
First, thank you so much for your prayers. I believe they have worked wonders here.
Things came to a head two weeks ago. My son just wouldn't back down, was very argumentative and disrespectful, especially to my dh. One afternoon, Charlie was mouthing off about simply taking out the trash. My dh, Court, jumped out of his chair and got nose-to-nose with Charlie and asked if Charlie was "calling him out". They had a stand-off like that for a couple of minutes and then Charlie stormed off.
Of course, being a woman and a mom, I was pretty angry. The other kids were in the room and I felt that Court had responded inappropriately. I was wrong. When Charlie came back, Court apologized for blowing up, but not for standing up to him. The next day Charlie told me that he was happy and proud of Court for standing up to him! Apparently, that is what he has been waiting for. To him, I guess, it made Court look like a "man" and also showed that he was in charge. Charlie has always wanted to be proud of his dad, but instead only sees his faults, especially when compared to other, more hands-on, dads.
Things have been much better since then. The whole school thing is going well. I am still thrilled with him being at ps, but it has brought peace here (at least until 3pm!  ). Charlie is much happier and so far is staying far from trouble. He still has his moments when he thinks the world revolves around him. But for the most part, he is working hard and is more fun to be around.
He has been grounded up until this week, but we have allowed him to have some of the guys over here to lift weights and play ball, etc. We are working with him trying to help him earn back privileges.
We find out on Saturday if he gets into the boarding school that we want him to go to. When things are going pretty well, like now, it is so hard to think of him not being here, but I really believe that this particular school would greatly benefit him.
Your continued prayers are greatly appreciated! I don't know what I would do without you.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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hylabrook1
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Molly -
I'm so glad to hear things are going better. I'll continue to pray.
It's so interesting to find out what is *really going on* with a child who is having/giving a rough time. Sometimes we don't find out until years after the fact; and sometimes when we do find out it is not what we had thought it was. It's a relief when the child tells us.
Hoping Charlie continues to let you know what's bothering him as things come up.
Peace,
Nancy
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Bridget
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I do think we moms underestimate how much the teen boys need clear direction and boundaries from the men. Even when the way dads handle it is not how we would.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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BrendaPeter
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Wow, Molly! Lent sure is a time of special graces, isn't it?! Good to hear things are better.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Donna Marie
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Molly,
I was talking to a friend of mine last week...she homeschools (has 6dc) but has opted to send her boys to an all boy Catholic boarding school in Scranton, PA. She says the male leadership there is strong and they have a wonderful Catholic influence and even offer confession nightly. She says her eldest ds has not stopped thanking her for sending him. She says if you want to call her you can...just PM me if you want her number. Her name is Tilla. She is Maria Rioux's sister...if you remember her from the CCM list...
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc 
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
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guitarnan
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Thanks, Molly, for the update and the good news. I do think teen boys need to know exactly how far Dad will let them go; it is important to see their fathers as the true family leader. I'm glad to hear that Charlie is doing well and that he finally can see you're all pulling together for him.
I needed some good news today! Thank you!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: What to do with the anger
