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aussieannie
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"If Jesus Christ, the head of mankind, is born of her (Mary), the predestinate, who are members of this head, must also as a necessary consequence be born of her."...Chapt 1, paragraph 32 - True Devotion.
Welcome! Ave Maria!
Helen wrote:
We’re using St. Louis De Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary as a starting point because it is a classic, readily available, and foundational element of Marian devotion. If you don’t have any established practices, this book is a very good place to begin. See where it leads you.
Feel free to share your insights and ask questions about the book just as if we were together at the oasis discussing ways to find our Hidden Treasure together. |
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What is our practical goal?
We have 7 chapters to read and discuss by April the 25th, where we will then start our 33 day preparation to culminate in our consecration on the 27th of May – the feast of Pentecost.
How to approach the first chapter?
If we can all hope to have read this 1st Chapter by 12th of February? You can evenly pace yourself with 4 to 5 paragraphs per day, allowing time for proper reflection. With an average of 12 days per chapter, this allows prayer time, for our hearts to be touched and enlightened, asking for Mary’s guidance through it all. A novena asking for these particular graces, could be a suggestion also, it does not have to be lengthy prayers each day, three Hail Mary’s is powerful.
Most importantly – where do we bring our thoughts for this 1st Chapter?
This thread will be here for us to keep coming back to, so we may share our many, varied thoughts and to ask questions during this time. God willing, it will be a fruitful thread indeed.
Here is the link to reading the sub chapters below.
The True Devotion by St Louis de Monfort
Introduction of St Louis Marie
Part 1:
TRUE DEVOTION TO OUR LADY IN GENERAL
Chapter 1: Necessity of Devotion to Our Lady
1. Mary's part in the Incarnation
2. Mary's part in the sanctification of men
3. Consequences
4. Mary's part in the latter times
Helen wrote:
| Come when you can and sit with us under the shade of the palm tree, enjoy the cool waters when you can but go away different, refreshed and more committed to finding Hidden Treasure in your own life. |
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Amen!
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mariB
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"...this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of His will and the manifestation of His glory"
This really was a mindblower for me as I had never thought of the relationship of God and Mary in this manner. It made me think of how much God loves each human being so much that He became God-made-Man!
That he CHOSE to do this is not something that I have thought of in great depth. Although, 2 weeks ago we came across this in my son's Catechism lesson.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this ladies, I joined this forum because you all are so insightful and I am wanting to grow closer and closer to Mary.
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aussieannie
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MariB wrote:
"...this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of His will and the manifestation of His glory"
This really was a mindblower for me as I had never thought of the relationship of God and Mary in this manner. It made me think of how much God loves each human being so much that He became God-made-Man!
That he CHOSE to do this is not something that I have thought of in great depth. |
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Isn't it a mindblower? Especially when we can acknowlege with our *catechism training*, the infinite perfection in ALL God's actions. Out the the numerous ways God could have entered the world. He didn't need her but He did want her - an amazing difference - this was His choice - and it was a perfect one.
Louis de Monfort then expresses in paragraphs 14 and 15 this choice (rather than need) and it's unalterable course it will go on to its completion to the end of time - and it is this we are here to discover to it's fullest in this True Devotion study:
True Devotion wrote:
14. With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, "I am he who is". Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.
15. However, I declare that, considering things as they are, because God has decided to begin and accomplish his greatest works through the Blessed Virgin ever since he created her, we can safely believe that he will not change his plan in the time to come, for he is God and therefore does not change in his thoughts or his way of acting. |
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So that ties back to De Monfort's opening line:
True Devotion wrote:
| 1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world. |
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Thus it is the reason we acknowledge her indispensible role in our lives - not just that she said, "Yes" at the Annunciation, but that the fullfillment of her mission goes on to it's completion - she brought the Incarnation - God-made-man - into the world. But we are all mothers - did it stop with the crowning ahievement of us giving birth? NO! It had only just started, hadn't it?  (This image of 'birth' will be talked about later in the chapter, but I have alluded to it in my quote below the picture - the paragraph it has come from is one of my favourites.)
The Blessed Trinity wishes to bring all of us back into the 'family fold' lost through Adam and to allow us into our true homeland - heaven. 'Family fold'... 'children of God,' 'adopted sons and daughters' can we really leave a mother - OUR mother, out of this picture?
I think the beauty that lies in this book is it is really based on common sense (and yet sometimes, common sense has to hit us between the eyes before we see it - right?  ) - a following of Biblical beliefs (from Genesis right through to the Apocolypse - in fact those two books alone are very significant in Marian teaching) through to their completion and fullfilment, till the mission of the Incarnation is complete.
A great place to start Marianne - we have started this study with our children as well and this was the first thing that popped up in our discussions too!  ....I think that is why I had alot to say  ...we had just thought deeply on that very point. 
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Helen
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mariB wrote:
| "...this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of His will and the manifestation of His glory" |
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Thank you Mari for beginning our discussion (and thanks Anne for the beautiful introduction and thoughtful words)
I think this quote shows the great beauty of Marian devotion: its humility. The Omnipotent God veils His power in humility choosing and allowing the Blessed Virgin to go before Him.
Learning about Our Lady, thinking about the Lord through Our Lady's eyes gives us such a solid base in humility. (Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom - isnt' that from the first psalm?)
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Helen
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aussieannie wrote:
True Devotion wrote:
| 14. With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, "I am he who is". Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them. |
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Usually, I read True Devotion so that I can find something wonderful said about Our Lady or I try to study what it means to be "truly devoted." (The tape player in my car is jammed, but I used to keep True Devotion on tape in my car in case I didn't have time to make a Marian meditation in the morning, I would pop it in and listen to a paragraph or two.)
I was so surprised when we began this study to find St. Louis in the first words saying,
Our Lady is less than an atom 
and of course this is true when she is compared to God. But, that is not what I expected when I began this study.
But, I suppose this is what allows St. Louis to make such wonderfully grand statments about Our Lady. His devotion is firmly rooted in truth. Compared to God, even Our Lady is less than an atom. (What does that say about the rest of us? )Now that St. Louis has said the truth, he is free to go up from there.
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aussieannie
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True Devotion wrote:
| I declare with the saints: Mary is the earthly paradise of Jesus Christ the new Adam, where he became man by the power of the Holy Spirit, in order to accomplish in her wonders beyond our understanding. She is the vast and divine world of God where unutterable marvels and beauties are to be found. She is the magnificence of the Almighty where he hid his only Son, as in his own bosom, and with him everything that is most excellent and precious. What great and hidden things the all-powerful God has done for this wonderful creature, as she herself had to confess in spite of her great humility, "The Almighty has done great things for me." The world does not know these things because it is incapable and unworthy of knowing them. |
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I wanted to say something about a sentence in this paragraph and there will be many others to come I know. It has been a *revelation* upon entering this book again and so quickly into it, to finally see that St Louis deMonfort draws on biblical typology in his treatise.
Just a reminder, what typology is:
Typology is a special kind of symbolism. (A symbol is something which represents something else.) We can define a type as a “prophetic symbol” because all types are representations of something yet future. More specifically, a type in scripture is a person or thing in the Old Testament which foreshadows a person or thing in the New. For example, the flood of Noah’s day (Genesis 6-7) is used to typify baptism in 1 Peter 3:20-21. The word for type that Peter uses is figure.
I remember being really moved by Scott Hahn's book Hail Holy Queen with his use of biblical typology and a thorough biblical understanding of Mary, it was eye opener for me. I have often used his explainations for some things that can be tricky to discuss with my protestant brethern in Christ. To me, at the time, it seemed *new* - like a breath of fresh air, building on my understanding of Mary and yet here it is, or should I say, "always was." I can't believe that I didn't make the connection years ago and really understand what St Louis was saying. 
This particular sentence from the True Devotion, “Mary is the earthly paradise of Jesus Christ the new Adam” - I had read once, that there is a lot of biblical typology for the support of the Immaculate Conception. One being that Jesus is the new Adam (Mary is the new Eve too, I know) but that Jesus (the new Adam) came from Mary – Adam came from the dust of the earth that was newly created and *immaculate* “God looked on it and saw that it was good.”
It is nice to discover something that was always there but seemingly hidden to me in the past.
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aussieannie
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True Devotion wrote:
| There is not a child who does not praise her by lisping a Hail Mary. There is scarcely a sinner, however hardened, who does not possess some spark of confidence in her. |
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This is beautiful. 
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mariB
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Yes, Annie, I agree.
It was just a few days before I read that particular quote in the book. The whole family was saying the Rosary together. Our three year old, whom I never heard recite a memorized prayer before, was lisping one Hail Mary after another.
My husband looked at me and then looked at her, he smiled, and my heart was filled with joy and the tears welled up in my eyes.(' ')
Oh, the graces that are bestowed on us by this beautiful prayer!
Also, your insight, Annie, about us being parents:
" IT STOP WITH THE CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT OF GIVING BIRTH? NO!"
really hit me. Of course Mary is God's mother for all eternity! I never thought of it that way before!
I shared it with my husband and we both agreed that Mary would still act as mother now as when she was on earth! This is really wonderful for us who have been really Protestantly influenced.---which my husband and I have years back.
As I mentioned before on another thread, we are Catholic reverts.
Thank you Helen and Annie!
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Helen
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aussieannie wrote:
[quote=True Devotion]I declare with the saints: Mary is the earthly paradise of Jesus Christ the new Adam, ...
I remember being really moved by Scott Hahn's book Hail Holy Queen with his use of biblical typology and a thorough biblical understanding of Mary,... |
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At our Franciscan Marian formation meetings I've heard that Cardinal Newman said
Catholics should not *look* for Mary on every page of scripture.... She *is* on every page of Scripture.
It really makes sense. If God knew, from all eternity, that He would become man born of the Virgin Mary, wouldn't he give hints and signs of this reality right from the beginning of Revelation?
Sometimes, if I feel distracted, I read my breviary prayers looking for Our Lady.
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Helen
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If you scroll down to Interpreters of Sacred Scripture in Bl. Pius IX's encyclical,
Ineffabilis Deus he lists many traditional signs of the Blessed Virgin Mary in scripture. (Footnotes have the biblical passages.)
ACtually, this might be a good topic for another thread. As we come across biblical images of Our Lady we could keep a running record.
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aussieannie
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True Devotion wrote:
| 13. My heart has dictated with special joy all that I have written to show that Mary has been unknown up till now, and that that is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ is not known as he should be. If then, as is certain, the knowledge and the kingdom of Jesus Christ must come into the world, it can only be as a necessary consequence of the knowledge and reign of Mary. She who first gave him to the world will establish his kingdom in the world. |
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This is an interesting paragraph. It is reassuring to know that everything happens in God's perfect timing.
I read somewhere (I don't seem to remember where.. ) that one reason why Mary not being fully known and understood in the earlier times, was that the Church had entered a tumultuous period in history (1st millenia) of needing to defend truth and condemn heresy just on who Jesus really was.
The devil had a great time creating divisions over this alone. The thought was that if Mary had been revealed in her fullness back then that there may have been false doctrines of 'goddess worship' or 'female deity' to have dealt with on top of it.
Has anyone else heard of that thinking?
St Louis is saying that the full reign of Christ cannot be established on earth without Mary's role being fully known and established - it would seem that it has taken a long time for the church to florish to it's fullness, like the mustard tree described in the New Testament, maybe that is why Jesus has chosen such an analogy. It takes time to go from a seed to an enormous, mature tree.
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True Devotion wrote:
| 23. God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the seas (maria). He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria). The great God has a treasury or storehouse full of riches in which he has enclosed all that is beautiful, resplendent, rare, and precious, even his own Son. This immense treasury is none other than Mary whom the saints call the "treasury of the Lord". From her fullness all men are made rich. |
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This was one of my questions.....does anyone know exactly what Louis means when he says:
"God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the sea. (maria) He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria)."
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Helen
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aussieannie wrote:
This was one of my questions.....does anyone know exactly what Louis means when he says:
"God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the sea. (maria) He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria)."
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I'm pretty sure this is another biblical reference.
Genesis 1:9-10
God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done. And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis Chapter I
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So is it just another typology similar to what I had talked about before - Mary and the New Created Earth?
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Helen
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aussieannie wrote:
| So is it just another typology similar to what I had talked about before - Mary and the New Created Earth? |
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Yes, I think so but probably a looser, more poetic comparison.
Images like this probably caused Cardinal Newman to make his remark that I mentioned earlier.
(Mary *is* on every page of scripture.)
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True Devotion wrote:
| 32. "This one and that one were born in her." According to the explanation of some of the Fathers, the first man born of Mary is the God-man, Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ, the head of mankind, is born of her, the predestinate, who are members of this head, must also as a necessary consequence be born of her. One and the same mother does not give birth to the head without the members nor to the members without the head, for these would be monsters in the order of nature. In the order of grace likewise the head and the members are born of the same mother. If a member of the mystical body of Christ, that is, one of the predestinate, were born of a mother other than Mary who gave birth to the head, he would not be one of the predestinate, nor a member of Jesus Christ, but a monster in the order of grace. |
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An important paragraph that I placed on a new thread
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I am enjoying the spirit of Our Lady move through this forum, leading us ever closer to Her Son! Helen, I thank you for your remarkable wisdom. I am enjoying my daily Mary Vitamins that I recently had prescribed
Though I'm finishing Part II, I am still consistently moved by the impact of the pages I read.
But back to Chapter 1, I was immensely affected by paragraphs 47 and 48 on page 26. I wrote !WOW! in the margins. It talks about some new saints being formed who will surpass all others....Par.48 "These great souls, full of grace and zeal, shall be chosen to match themselves against the enemies of God, who shall rage on all sides; and they shall be singularly devout to our Blessed Lady, illuminated by her light, strengthened with her nourishment, let by her spirit, supported by her arm and sheltered by her protection, so thay they shall fight with one hand and build with the other."
Do any of you know if this is mentioned anywhere else in scripture?
It is quite powerful...Could this be our children or grandchildren?
I was also floored by Montfort's insight on page 31 about Satan fearing Mary. He wrote "he (Satan) fears her not only more than all angels and men, but in a sense more than God himself." WHOA!
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cathhomeschool
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I have finally had some time to through Ch.1 online. Two statements that I don't understand are:
True Devotion wrote:
| 4. God the Father willed that she should perform no miracle during her life, at least no public one, although he had given her the power to do so. |
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and
True Devotion wrote:
| 7.... the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived. |
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The first quote makes sense, but I am curious as to where de Montfort got this. Did some saint before him say this or was it revealed in an apparition? Or is it just an assumption based on Mary being full of grace and without sin?
The second quote makes me uncomfortable. No matter how great Mary is and how much her Son loves her and listens to her, I cannot call that "wielding power over God." Influence, yes. Power, no. Is it just the phrasing? Do the two things mean the same thing? Is it my perception of what "power" is?
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Tifflynene wrote:
Par.48 "These great souls, full of grace and zeal, shall be chosen to match themselves against the enemies of God, who shall rage on all sides; and they shall be singularly devout to our Blessed Lady, illuminated by her light, strengthened with her nourishment, let by her spirit, supported by her arm and sheltered by her protection, so thay they shall fight with one hand and build with the other."
...
It is quite powerful...Could this be our children or grandchildren? |
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Tiffany,
Many refer to *this* age as the Marian age. Our Lady has been making herself available in a strong way since the apparition at Rue de Bac, Paris 1830 (Miraculous Medal)Lourdes, La Salette, Fatima (1917) and then St. Maximilian Kolbe and many other Marian movements. (Legion of Mary and Schoenstatt for example)
Tifflynene wrote:
I was also floored by Montfort's insight on page 31 about Satan fearing Mary. He wrote "he (Satan) fears her not only more than all angels and men, but in a sense more than God himself." WHOA!
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She will crush the head of the serpent (Gen 3)
WE see that when Christianity went through its major divisions in the 16th century, part of the cunning of the serpent was to destroy Marian devotion in our separated brethren. We might not see things as clearly in the spiritual world but he knows who his enemy is.
(I'm glad you're getting your daily dose of vitamins - I love your avatar!)
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cathhomeschool wrote:
| The second quote makes me uncomfortable. No matter how great Mary is and how much her Son loves her and listens to her, I cannot call that "wielding power over God." Influence, yes. Power, no. Is it just the phrasing? Do the two things mean the same thing? Is it my perception of what "power" is? |
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This is such a great question Janette. I'm really glad you brought this up.
Jesus is always Mary's Son. The scriptures relate that after the finding of Jesus in the Temple,when He was instructing the doctors of the Law,
Jesus returned to Nazareth obediently.
The main idea of devotion/consecration to Our Lady is the attempt to imitate Jesus exactly
The Lord, yes the great Lord, was obedient to His Mother as a child, as a young adult, as a young man, even at the beginning of His public ministry. (Wedding of Cana, first miracle is performed because THE woman requests it.)
The Lord never forgets the love He has for His Mother. She does wield power over Him. Not as stronger than God but because of the great love the Lord has for her, His Mother.
I'm not sure I'm explaining this well. Let's talk about it some more.
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