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Elena
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Jodie, I didn't say it was "inherently" wrong. The idea as I understand it is that if there was a shortage or absence of male servers, then girls would be permitted to serve. If the preponderance of young ladies as servers is keeping boys from serving or prevents them from serving, then it is going above and beyond what was intended as allowable, and in my opinion is wrong. Sorry I wasn't more clear. 
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JodieLyn
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Thanks for clarifying .. I can agree with that.. as I said earlier.. we are where both boys and girls serve but we're rather few in number anyway.. and seem to fit into the shortage reasoning.. so we allow it for our family.
It's difficult when people have such different experiences.
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MrsKey
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I agree with those who have said it is wrong. I will not, under any circumstances, allow or encourage my daughter to be an "altar server".
While these thing may be 'allowed' I do not believe that they are right or proper. In time, I believe, these innovations will be phased out. Just as the practice of the laity purifying the sacred vessels has been disallowed, so I believe, will female "altar servers".
Like others have said in this thread (and in others) this is a sterile ministry for women. It does not prepare girls for, introduce them to or put them in the near proximity of any vocation that they will be called to.
I believe, personally, that the innovation of female altar servers is an attempt to "soften" or acclimatize the laity to seeing women in the Sanctuary during the Sacrifice of the Mass so as to make the idea of the ordination of women to the priesthood more palatable and acceptable.
Just because something is allowed it does not follow that it is the best course of action.
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marihalojen
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I am one of the younger moms on this board and I can't recall a time when girls weren't serving in any church I've attended. I have probably seen an equal, if not greater number of girls serving. I also can't recall seeing older boys serve, only elementary or maybe middle school aged. I think it would be ideal to have older boys serving as well as the younger set if only to squash the unruliness of the younger set. I find behavior more distracting than gender.
Why do I think behavior is so very important? As an example, last Sunday the only altarkid serving was scrunched down hiding and tipped over his chair. After breaking his cross, reknotting it too tight to fit over his head, he wore it on his forehead awhile before taking it and playing helicopters with it. Not behavior I'd expect from a 6th grader but that's how old he is and an example of what we get from the boys here. The girls seem to sit still better and just generally serve better, as in Father doesn't have to call them over to him or physically guide them around. The hair and heels issue is a non-issue down here. Boys and girls both have long hair, earring(s) and wear flip-flops.
We have a huge shortage of servers and more often than not have elderly women serve, as in so old their knee replacements won't even let them kneel down. (Alternatively, the Altar Society seems to consist of one elderly man.)
I have decided that between the server situation on the left of the altar and the kids' choir on the right God really wants me to focus right in the middle, at Him. If I don't and let my glance stray in either direction I get so mad I see red.
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Lisbet
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Jennifer, what a shame there are so many distractions. (External ones) It is so hard to stayed focused on Christ when we are so easily enraged by the goings on around us. I struggle with this too, even in our very conservative parish.
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MicheleQ
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MrsKey wrote:
| Just because something is allowed it does not follow that it is the best course of action. |
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This is very true and Matthew 19 comes to mind as a good example. Moses "allowed" divorce but we know that it's wrong. Please understand, I am not saying that having girls serve at the altar is akin to divorce by any means, rather I'm just making the point that "allowed" doesn't mean "right".
The problem though with this issue is that it essentially came about through disobedience (much in the same way that communion in the hand became widespread but if you read the documents on that issue you see it was not originally meant to be so). Before girls serving at the altar was officially permitted there were girls already doing it (I personally know of one parish where this occurred and have heard of others). It is my understanding that because of this it was made allowable, but with stipulations that boys be given first place. Obviously many of us can relate that it is not always the case.
The same is true with Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist. There is a hierarchy that is supposed to be followed and lay women are at the bottom of that order. The proper order is priest, deacon, lay men, religious sisters, and lay women. Again this is virtually ignored and in many parishes women are the first to serve even when men are available. This is disobedience and it is wrong.
All this being said I do hold out hope that things are changing for the good. Corrections are being made and it is very encouraging. As vocations increase there will be less of a need for things that have been allowed and I can see how they may be phased out completely (women as EMEs for example).
Dear sisters I sincerely hope my post comes across as being kind and not combative. This topic has been on my mind lately and I really felt a need to post again on it today.
God bless you,
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mary theresa
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MicheleQ wrote:
MrsKey wrote:
| Just because something is allowed it does not follow that it is the best course of action. |
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This is very true and Matthew 19 comes to mind as a good example. Moses "allowed" divorce but we know that it's wrong. Please understand, I am not saying that having girls serve at the altar is akin to divorce by any means, rather I'm just making the point that "allowed" doesn't mean "right".
The problem though with this issue is that it essentially came about through disobedience (much in the same way that communion in the hand became widespread but if you read the documents on that issue you see it was not originally meant to be so). Before girls serving at the altar was officially permitted there were girls already doing it (I personally know of one parish where this occurred and have heard of others). It is my understanding that because of this it was made allowable, but with stipulations that boys be given first place. Obviously many of us can relate that it is not always the case.
The same is true with Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist. There is a hierarchy that is supposed to be followed and lay women are at the bottom of that order. The proper order is priest, deacon, lay men, religious sisters, and lay women. Again this is virtually ignored and in many parishes women are the first to serve even when men are available. This is disobedience and it is wrong.
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I agree with all that you have said Michelle. I think this is very well explained.
Allowing girls to be altar servers is also, in a way, buying into the whole politically correct, women-must-be-equal-to-men mentality that is, as we know, so poisonous in our society.
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kingvozzo
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Resurrecting this ancient thread, because my dd8 has been discussing her desire to serve at the altar. Sadly, ds12 is NOT interested in this.
Our parish is having their volunteer drive, so we've been having discussions about what our family can do in service to our Church. I'm leaning toward maintaining altar cloths and vestements, because I think it will be more feasible for us as a family.
I'm really struggling with how to gently discourage my daughter from wanting to serve at the altar without unduly disparaging the practice of having female servers. I'd rather she not serve, but I'd like her to come to an understanding of why without my having to just forbid it.
Every way I tried explaining it to her last night came out that I somehow know better than the Church, who does actually permit it. I don't want to be critical!
Help! How can I explain the role of altar service in vocations etc without criticizing the Church?
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CrunchyMom
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Well, without having read the entire thread, the Church also allows for pastors and bishops to discern NOT to allow girl altar servers. So, that must be okay, too. I know that you don't want to outright *forbid* it, but perhaps if you compared your decision as parent discerning what is best for your family to a bishop or pastor discerning what is best for his flock, it would not seem in such discord with the Church's decision as a whole?
Perhaps you could look for other avenues for your daughter to help in serving our Lord on the altar and encourage those. Our parish often needs people to help with the cleaning, seasonal decorating, and washing, ironing, and sewing of linens.
ETA: Sorry, I didn't read closely and you'd already mentioned helping with altar cloths and such!
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Elena
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She's 8.
She won't know about the server training or schedule unless you tell her about it.
I just wouldn't bring it up and in the meantime, steer her towards singing, or community service work in the church.
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Well...at our parish they announce altar server training all over the place. Anyone who can read or hear knows about it.
I like Lindsay's suggestion for explaining things to your daughter, Noreen.
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Elena
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The only thing my kids "hear" during the announcements is "Today is Doughnut Sunday!" 
...and they never pick up a bulletin, let alone read one - and those are the teenagers! 
Maybe it's just my kids - and it certainly could be, but unless I point it out, make a note, or sign them up, they're oblivious.
which ain't always such a bad thing! 
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Elena
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guitarnan
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LOL, Elena!
My dd is very attuned to any announcement that could portend 1) a social opportunity; 2) a talent-sharing opportunity (she loves to perform); 3) food or 4) a way toward her goal of early Confirmation. So, she listens attentively each and every Sunday!
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Erica Sanchez
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I think Michelle's (old) post offers an accurate and beautiful explanation. I understand that there is supposed to be a true need for girls to be allowed to serve. It is also true that a priest can offer Holy Mass without any help at all.
At my beloved San Diego Mission, only boys were allowed to serve until a new leader/organizer was needed. This particular man, a non-Catholic, took the position with the stipulation that his two girls be allowed to serve. Slowly, over time, it is now not uncommon to see more or all girls serving at the altar. I know there are plently of boys available to serve. It breaks my heart.
And, truthfully, girls serving on the altar has become such a source of distraction for me that I wonder if my inability to see past them and focus on the Mass isn't a near occassion of sin for me. Other small and not so small abuses produce the same reaction and it is difficult for me to hold my tongue in the car on the way home. This is not good.
We attended a beautiful, holy, reverent Novus Ordo Mass last year in Goodyear, AZ, located just outside Pheonix. All men/boys on the altar, even a seminarian. This was very inspiring for my son. There also seems to be a huge number of seminarians in the Pheonix Dieocese. Are girls allowed to serve in any parish there? I wonder.... Anyway, being at that particular Mass made me think this was what was intended post-Vatican II - beautiful music, incense, men/boys on the altar, no EMs, some prayers in Latin, etc.
We have recently began attending the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (TLM). I love seeing the altar boys, young and old. I love everything about it. I never, in a million years, expected this to happen. We plan to split our time between the TLM and The Mission and also still attend a nearby NO daily Mass when we can.
I'm sorry. I don't think I answered anyone's questions or helped in any way. Girls serving at the altar has been such a source of anguish for me for several years and recently attending the TLM such a source of joy, I think I may just be unloading what has been on my heart as of late.
Forgive me if I sound harsh in any way. I do not feel that way at all. I will pray for those of you in difficult situations in this particular area.
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Erin
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kingvozzo wrote:
I'm really struggling with how to gently discourage my daughter from wanting to serve at the altar without unduly disparaging the practice of having female servers. I'd rather she not serve, but I'd like her to come to an understanding of why without my having to just forbid it.
Every way I tried explaining it to her last night came out that I somehow know better than the Church, who does actually permit it. I don't want to be critical!
Help! How can I explain the role of altar service in vocations etc without criticizing the Church? |
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I can relate here. with our dds we told them that they church did allow it, but dad and mum have made a family decision that our girls won't be.
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LeeAnn
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Our daughters have served at the altar. Currently only our 12yo daughter serves. My husband and I were against it for several years, but eventually we got tired of seeing no one volunteer to do it and the elderly sacristan having to fill in or boys in the congregation refusing to do it when asked. Since then, we've decided that Church allows it and our daughter really wants to do it, so we gave her permission to continue.
That being said, if we still felt strongly against it, I would just make it a matter of obedience and forbid her to do it. If she did not accept the simple explanation of your reasons (it's not traditional, it might impede boys from thinking about the priesthood, we don't want you to do it) I wouldn't spend a lot of time beating about the bush hoping she'll come to the same conclusion as you did...I would just say "no" and deal with the fact that she may be unhappy with you and your husband for a while.
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Two of my aunts were in a religious order. It was so beautiful to go to their Masses and to watch the sisters serve as altar servers, lectors, Eucharistic (extraordinary) ministers, etc.. The reverence and delight in participation was obvious. There were so many years they were not allowed to do these things.
I would be proud of my daughter if she chose to be an altar server as our parish is in great need of more servers, but she prefers to sing in the choir. I remind her that she has choices for her vocation which include the religious life.
But that said, girls should NEVER be Altarboys. However, they may be altar servers.
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Donna Marie
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For a long time my dds did not serve. There was a great need at our parish and dh and I prayed about it and agreed that they could serve only if there were no boys that wanted to serve in their place, meaning there was no one at that Mass that could and if there was a boy available, they would step aside. They were fine with that.
They have been serving VERY reverently for years now (they are 16) and help with the training of the younger ones which now includes their 9yo sister. We are very no nonsense about behavior and dress while serving. They dress modestly in flat dress shoes and wear their hair back so it does not get in the way. While serving, they aren't to draw attention to themselves or act that in any way can be deemed distracting.
I know this is a hot button topic for some and I am sorry if anyone feels differently, but dh and I knew that father needed the help that he could count on every week. FWIW, my sons serve too...it is usually our family that serves the Mass we attend every Sunday as there are only a few other regulars who will consistently show for that time.
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Mrs.K
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Hello ladies! I haven't posted here in years but I've been getting the responses to this ancient thread showing up in my inbox. I would like to share a recent experience of ours concerning girls on the altar. We currently attend the TLM exclusively where it is obviously not an issue, but we recently went back to visit our former church. We were surprised and delighted to find they had replaced their old white server robes with cassocks and surplices for the boys. For the girls, they had full length black robes topped with long white scapulars. They looked beautiful and most reverent, and as my teenage son pointed out they looked like religious sisters. We thought it was wonderful that they decided to have the girls wear something different from the boys, as the girls are indeed not 'altar boys'. And to have them wear something similar to a habit may give them an inspiration to a religious vocation just as we hope serving might for our boys. Perhaps this is a new trend in 'server wear'!?!
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JodieLyn
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I think the abuses are a disservice to everyone. Those that must witness it as an abuse.. and those that end up feeling defensive because their daughters are serving due to a need.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Are your daughters Altarboys?
