| Author | |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 16 2005 at 9:04am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Louv, outdoor ed., the underpriveledged, and test scores in LATimes
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LauraRB
Forum Rookie
Joined: June 15 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: June 17 2005 at 5:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Would a kid REALLY say that they like it inside better because that is where all the electrical sockets are?! Is this a real kid?! 
__________________
God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
(1 John 4:16b)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LauraRB
Forum Rookie
Joined: June 15 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: June 17 2005 at 6:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't know about this so maybe I should get the book but it seems really , well, chicken little --ish to me. I live in a city but there is nature everywhere. Golden Gate park is huge and beautiful, there are 200 year old trees right outside my window complete with birds and squirrels. The first bird estuary in the US is across the bridge in Oakland. We camp and hike all over--you can literally walk around the entire bay and not see a car (almost) because of all the parks here in the bay area...
Is this book simply playing our parental fears that society is messing up our kids or is this really founded on research? Is the sky really falling?
__________________
God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
(1 John 4:16b)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 18 2005 at 11:12am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Laura, and welcome!
I suppose that any news like this runs the risk of becoming anecdotal. I think my kids still get plenty of nature time, and for the most part they would rather be outside than in. And I also believe that there have always been kids who might prefer to be inside...they probably existed long before electricty.
But I have seen, in my experience with school children as an outdoor educator, chidren who could not name the body of water to our north, nor the land they can clearly see across that water. I have had teachers tell me that it is not "safe" to sit on the grass, that the children's parents will not allow them to touch the water in the lake next to the school (the school is called "Lakeside" and only the naturalist on duty  was allowed to touch it), or that they did not see the educational value in being outside the classroom (especially if mud were involved!).
Moreover, I have had suburban 5th graders pile off a bus, see a squirrel and yell, "Look! A beaver!!!!" These same kids can rattle off a list of endangered rainforest flora and fauna, but cannot identify a maple tree.
If my experience is any clue (and I admit this is clearly not a scientific survey, but is merely a list of my own experiences), there is something odd going on.
You ask: Is the sky really falling?
I am not sure that enough people see this as a problem for their own kids to say that. I think Louv can run around talking about it, get lots of nods for outdoors types, but most of suburban America will smile politely, but really believe that their kids are safer in well-managed playgrounds or in formal activites.
What I see as more important is unstructured play, open areas without playground equipment, and real nature study. I agree that the places exist for my idea of childhood fun. And, in a way, I love that we are very often the LAST children in the woods (or the first, or the ONLY!!)  , since the wild places are very often empty or forgotten here! But for those indoor types who are interested in finding the way to the woods, I think this discussion is very important. Will we change the minds of all those parents who fear ticks and falls and risk-taking of any kind? Probably not. And perhaps this whole topic is just an excersize in nostalgia... 
But it is my hope, for those who are maybe reluctant to get outside and hike with their kids, that we can show, via the discussion of this book, the way back to the woods.
The fundamental premise of the book is not that the woods are no longer there, nor that people do not take advantage of these places (though both may be somewhat true, and Louv does make an argument for both), but that we NEED to visit wild places for the health of our families and of society.
So, valid questions he asks us to consider include:
Are we healthy if we are plugged in?
Do we need to be in the woods?
Is risk a necessary part of growing up?
I would also like to collect, through this discussion, ways of finding the wild places set aside for their natural beauty...books, websites. As you mentioned, Laura, you have old trees, an estuary, and more, I'm sure, right where you live. But I have had folks ask me where to go, what's out there, how do we find out, etc. For some of us, it's easy . For others, the challenge is not just to know that we need to get out (if we establish that we do--what did CM have to say here?), but to know where to go and what to do from there. If in discussing the book we can help folks get started, then it's a worthwhile discussion, don't you think?
I find myself both admiring and disagreeing with Louv at times...I know he and I share neither faith nor politics in common (woe to me as a naturalist, alone in both these matters amoung most of my peers!!), but I am interested in his ideas, both as "food for thought," and perhaps as a way to reach folks for whom nature is a thing to be avoided.
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amiefriedl
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 323
|
| Posted: June 18 2005 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MacBeth wrote:
| ...and perhaps as a way to reach folks for whom nature is a thing to be avoided. |
|
|
Macbeth,
I just had to jump in here and mention something. My city-dwelling in-laws moved very far out and started an organic beef farm in their retirement years. We lived less than a mile from them for about 4 years. They have chicken, donkeys and Dexter cattle, as well as stocked fish ponds and plenty of wildlife.
MY mom was horrified when she found out that my kids chased after the chickens and gathered the eggs from the coup. She said they were certainly going to come down with some disease or other (she apparently had seen some report on the evening news) and she was generally agast that they were around livestock at all. And ticks?? Don't even mention ticks.
This is my same mother who lives in a planned community with tons of deer and reported on a neighbor who was insane enough to set up his deerstand in his back yard... She mentioned to me how horrible it was that people would eat one of those beautiful creatures, "they are all God's creatures" she said, trying to appeal to my Christian side. I squelched my response completely about the ham in her oven at the time.
__________________
In Christ the King through Mary our Mother,
Amie
Blessed with an awesome hubby and Mom of ds10, dd7, dd3 and dd 10months.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
momwise
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
|
| Posted: June 18 2005 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MacBeth wrote:
Moreover, I have had suburban 5th graders pile off a bus, see a squirrel and yell, "Look! A beaver!!!!" <snip>
For others, the challenge is not just to know that we need to get out (if we establish that we do--what did CM have to say here?), but to know where to go and what to do from there.
|
|
|
Macbeth, I remember Dr. Taylor saying the same thing at one of his talks a couple of years ago. That kids in a field trip group stopped to look and marvel at a frog, and none of them had ever seen one up close (I'm doing some massive paraphrasing here).
I guess as kids we got up close to nature (as engrossed as we were in TV 90% of the time ) because our parents took us camping several times a year. I remember organizing "nature hikes" for my siblings and cousins.
In the neighborhood we just moved from, it really is dangerous to be outside. There was no question of riding bikes off to a trail or park. However this Urban Farm was just a few minutes drive and we took riding lessons, raised sheep for 4H, attended the shearings, collected eggs as the hens laid them, etc. The staff allows children to sign up for animal births and they call them as the animals go into labor. We still drive over there now that we've moved for 4H and we'll be back in riding lessons in the fall. I have no idea if this concept exists in other cities (Urban Gardens do) but it seems to be well accepted by the parents of our neighborhood (at least they drop the kids off).
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LauraRB
Forum Rookie
Joined: June 15 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: June 23 2005 at 10:05am | IP Logged
|
|
|
MacBeth wrote:
Hi Laura, and welcome!
But I have seen, in my experience with school children as an outdoor educator, chidren who could not name the body of water to our north, nor the land they can clearly see across that water. I have had teachers tell me that it is not "safe" to sit on the grass, that the children's parents will not allow them to touch the water in the lake next to the school (the school is called "Lakeside" and only the naturalist on duty was allowed to touch it), or that they did not see the educational value in being outside the classroom (especially if mud were involved!).
[.....]
So, valid questions he asks us to consider include:
Are we healthy if we are plugged in?
Do we need to be in the woods?
Is risk a necessary part of growing up?
I would also like to collect, through this discussion, ways of finding the wild places set aside for their natural beauty...books, websites. As you mentioned, Laura, you have old trees, an estuary, and more, I'm sure, right where you live. But I have had folks ask me where to go, what's out there, how do we find out, etc. For some of us, it's easy . For others, the challenge is not just to know that we need to get out (if we establish that we do--what did CM have to say here?), but to know where to go and what to do from there. If in discussing the book we can help folks get started, then it's a worthwhile discussion, don't you think?
I find myself both admiring and disagreeing with Louv at times...I know he and I share neither faith nor politics in common (woe to me as a naturalist, alone in both these matters amoung most of my peers!!) |
|
|
Macbeth, I had to read your post to jar the experiences out of my mind but once I did whiteness a parent scold their child for running through the sand at a playground because it would get his shoes dirty! After a bit of thinking I do see that there are many in our culture who are afraid of 'dirty' nature...
And I do think that we are healthier if we are unplugged (esp. when young!) and that children do need a very intimate experience of nature... And yes we need to be in the woods to know who we are (and not what we imagine ourselves to be!)
And the risk part-- mostly we think of this as good for children (to experience a bit of freedom and potential for risk) but it is also a good discipline for the parent. I have such difficulty letting go sometimes! Although I would never want to compromise an important safety rule or allow a small child to run through our trails alone or significantly ahead of the adults (mountain lions) but we do cultivate a love for dirt and bugs and climbing trees. And I am always amazed at how (when camping) something that would be considered trash at home is a very useful tool and we also spend so much more time with each other than with all our stuff (books, computer, etc...)... 
__________________
God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
(1 John 4:16b)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: June 23 2005 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We just returned from a few days at the lovely Land Between the Lakes area of Kentucky. As we rode the backwood trails and hiked around the lakes, I thought of our discussions about risk and safety---how much is overwrought and how much is sensible. As Laura said, it is very hard to find the fine line between allowing healthy Nature exploration and staying safe. After reading the Louv book, I think it inspired me to grope around for that fine line a little more, rather than follow my knee-jerk reaction to disallow this and disallow that. Of course, that doesn't mean I *found* that fine line, just that I consciously looked for it !
We returned to Florida, Mom feeling emboldened to allow more spontaneous Nature exploration...only to discover a FIVE FOOT RATTLESNAKE in our back yard, at our farm, with a head as big as a butter plate and a body wider than your average man's arm. Yikes. So much for spontaneous Nature Exploration thing, at least for the time being!!!!
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 23 2005 at 10:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
| We returned to Florida, Mom feeling emboldened to allow more spontaneous Nature exploration...only to discover a FIVE FOOT RATTLESNAKE in our back yard, at our farm, with a head as big as a butter plate and a body wider than your average man's arm. |
|
|
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LauraRB
Forum Rookie
Joined: June 15 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: June 24 2005 at 2:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
We returned to Florida, Mom feeling emboldened to allow more spontaneous Nature exploration...only to discover a FIVE FOOT RATTLESNAKE in our back yard, at our farm, with a head as big as a butter plate and a body wider than your average man's arm. Yikes. So much for spontaneous Nature Exploration thing, at least for the time being!!!!
Kelly in FL |
|
|
I have an aunt who loves to PICK UP and carry snakes, rattlers and all. She is not afraid of them at all! And for all the fear of rattlers, I don't know of anyone actually being bitten by one (except for my brother who was bitten by the Habu of Okinawa)...
Kelly, I hope you heard him before you saw him... he would be as big as me! (I'm only five feet tall). Did you invite him in for dinner ?
Laura
__________________
God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
(1 John 4:16b)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: June 24 2005 at 3:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hey Laura,
No, I didn't invite him to dinner...though I have eaten rattlesnake before! Yummy!
I'm not afraid of snakes, in fact, at one point I wanted to be a herpetologist and I've even been known to round up rat snakes to let loose in our garage to keep down the mouse population! However, I draw the line with rattlers. They are highly aggressive, and when they hit a child, it is usually in a vital spot since children are shorter. There was a two year old child bitten in the neck by a rattler in Sarasota two years ago, and the child died. I also have a friend locally whose teen age brother was bitten by a rattler, and who died. Just recently, our yardman's colleage had one of his team bitten by rattler and they had to life-flight the guy to Gainesville. I know rattle snakes just want to be left alone, and I appreciate their control of "varmits", but I just can't get sentimental about them, at least, not with little kids running around.
Now here's the really sobering thing, our tractor guy (who actually killed the snake) saw a BIGGER one out in the woods behind the house a month ago!!!!! He swears that it was at least a foot longer---and this is not a fellow prone to exaggeration. Gulp. You can bet your tin type that for now, until the weather cools, the Beck clan will indeed be "the last child(ren) in the woods"!!!
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 24 2005 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Life is good here in the land without venemous snakes...
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lilac hill
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 643
|
| Posted: June 27 2005 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
In talking about ADHD Louv lists a few reasons and explanations for the increase in diagnosis of this disease.
On page 100 Louv talks about a study written up in Pediatrics of April 2004. They studied almost 1300 children and linked ADHD to early childhood TV watching,and yet there seems to be more programming aimed at those sensitive preschool years. It just doesn't make sense.
Has anyone heard of this study befroe this mention?
BTW my girls watched some TV as toddlers,not much but some. So I am not villianizing TV viewing, just wondering about its place in the lives of so many preschoolers.
__________________
Viv
Wife to Rick (7/83), Mom to dd#1(6/87), dd#2(1/90), and dd#3(6/94) in central PA.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 29 2005 at 4:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Funny, Viv, but the kid who watched TV the least in our house as a child is most likely to be voted ADHD! He LOVES TV, and would sit in front of it all day if I allowed it, but I don't.
OTOH, when he is outdoors, he is like a different kid, living adventures, building forts, etc. It's like a handy cure!
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 29 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The study seems to be stalling a bit. If anyone has a better idea aobut format, better ways of presenting the info from the book, or if anyone wants to move forward with the study, let me know. Meanwhile, I'd like to head on to the next idea...
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: June 29 2005 at 4:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The criminalization of natural play! how this struck a chord with me!
When Trip was six, he was climbing a (small) dogwood tree in our side yard. A guy formt he local power company was working across the street. when he saw Trip, he started screaming, "Get out of the tree! children do not belong in trees!"
Earlier that year, the kids had put a few boards in a yew bush way in the back yard. The woman in back of us started yelling at the kids to get out of the "tree" (it was barely 2 feet off the ground).
As read Louv's chapter on "criminalizing" play, I think about all the rules regarding play in different neighborhoods. Everyone in our village must wear a badge to use the playground. Only kids under 12 are allowed on the play-gym. There is a village rule against "fancy bicycle tricks!" If the village trustees could see my backyard, I would probably get a summons (something about wildflowers and wild edibles that just makes these folks crazy).
Louv describes forts being torn down, and the general rules in many municipalities proscribing the sort of imaginative building that many children do. Is this common?
How many of us live in neighborhoods with restrictive rules on children's activities?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: June 30 2005 at 2:01am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The criminalization of nature play chapter hit a chord with me also. I was floored by some of those stories that Louv described of neighborhood restrictions. I was aware of the restrictions in covenant controlled communites on things like painting houses, putting up basketball hoops but was amazed to hear the restrictions on things like backyard playhouses, treehouses on your own property, bike ramps, etc. I guess I've been sheltered from that. We live in a neighborhood built in the late 60s/early 70s, so it has a bit of the suburban feel but was before the covenant control neighborhoods in the surrounding suburbs. There really are no restrictions on play or nature interactions per se as it relates to individual yards/property (unfortunately we have no decent climbing trees on our property  ).
We live across the street from a small city park and are also close to a trail and creek which are more "wild" and in the natural state. I have never heard that there are specific restrictions that specifically address nature play there but I think I'll go read the rules/restrictions signs with that in mind tomorrow (The only thing I can remember off-hand is you can't play golf in the park!). That being said, I never thougt about it like this before, but I wouldn't let my kids climb trees in those areas simply because I have a realization that it "probably isn't okay with somebody and they would get in trouble." I'm wondering where that sense came from since I never really conscioulsy made that connection. Where are we getting these messages even if they aren't explicitly stated?
MacBeth, your experiences of people stressing about your kids playing in trees was interesting. I'm glad you shared that. Isn't it weird that people would react like that. When I was reading this chapter I also thought about my own tree climbing experiences from childhood in light of "criminalization." The tree that I most remember climbing is a huge black walnut in my grandparent's yard in the country (my brother, cousins, and I spent so much time in it). We techically weren't supposed to be in it though. My mother didn't mind but my grandmother and the uncles who ran the farm didn't want us in the tree. Part of the fun and intrigue came from attemping not to get caught while playing in the tree (my grandmother rarely came out of the house and the uncles were usually in the fields or barns). The same went for the haystack - we weren't supposed to be on top of it or inside it, but that didn't stop us. Funny thing is nothing ever happened if we got caught (just yelled at so we'd leave for awhile and come back later). The concern came from safety issues, I know, even though clearly my uncles had probably done the same thing when they were young (my mom has lots of wild stories to share).
I really am intrigued by this concept of fear of nature play that Louv discusses later - that seems to be one of the main reasons for the criminalization - fear of injury which ultimatley is about liability it seems.
Thanks for nudging us on this thread again.
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: July 01 2005 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
a quick aside...
We watched The Bells o f St. Mary's tonight, and Father O'Malley and Sr. Benedict both bemoan the loss of play-spaces for the children.
Does every generation feel that things are worse for kids than when they were young?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
cathhomeschool
Board Moderator
Texas Bluebonnets
Joined: Jan 26 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7303
|
| Posted: July 06 2005 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Our neighborhood does not have restrictions on "play," but then we don't have a neighborhood park or swimming pool. We do have rules about play structures and sheds -- neither can be visible from the street. Our neighborhood does have a greenbelt (thin belt of woods with a creek running through it, really), but it is not used much and is very overgrown and difficult to navigate with a stroller. Other neighborhoods do have parks with large manmade awnings to cover the play areas (because all original trees have been removed) and rules posted.
Like Mary, I tend to tell my children not to climb trees in public parks or on church grounds, because even when it's not posted, people (often church employees) will order the children to come down. The trees in our backyard are mostly pin oaks -- tall poles without lower branches. This discouraged the boys when we first moved here, but now they have become experts at climbing up fireman-pole style and spend as much time in trees as possible.
My mother and I were discussing fear of nature the other day. When we were young, we lived on a dead end street with woods at the dead end. We spent many of our days exploring the woods, riding our bikes over the dirt dunes (that someone had obviously gone to a lot of trouble to create eons before) and running down to the algae covered creek to dip sticks in the algae. No one ever bothered about mosquito spray or tick repellant. My parents didn't stress about the "what ifs" involving close contact with wildlife. My brothers regulary caught crayfish and frogs in the large ditch that made the back "fence" of our backyard. This same mother was warning me the other day about the dangers of woods and creeks -- ticks and lyme disease, mosquitos and the west nile virus, chiggers, snakes, scorpions! I certainly should not encourage my boys to explore and should definitely not want to live in a place that had these things available 24/7. Her excuse was that she was ignorant of these possibilities when we were young. All I can say is that I'm glad she was! I told her that I understood her concerns, but that total Fear of the Wild went against my grain!
A friend who grew up in the country was commenting the other day that he spent his entire summer every year fishing and exploring the woods. He'd leave at breakfast and come back at dinner. This was the life that he envisioned for his children, too, and he didn't understand why his wife wanted to put the kids in dance, kindermusic, gymnastics, etc. Where was the free time to "just be kids?" The wife understood his position, but found herself getting caught up in what everyone else said the kids "needed." Perhaps many parents would happily let kids spend more time in nature if society didn't play on their fears (of disease, of missing developmental opportunities...). And playing in the woods is really not good for economic development. After all, no one makes money when the kids are off building forts from found objects! Where would all of the kindermusic and playplace studios be if the kids were happily playing without adult direction and organized activities?!
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
momwise
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1914
|
| Posted: July 06 2005 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
cathhomeschool wrote:
A friend who grew up in the country was commenting the other day that he spent his entire summer every year fishing and exploring the woods. He'd leave at breakfast and come back at dinner. |
|
|
This is what my dad did with all of his brothers growing up in the late 30's/early 40's, only they did it in the city. We've heard stories of boys daring each other to jump off the 8th street viaduct; I'd rather have my kids climbing a tree any day!! (Fortunately for her, my grandma never knew most of what went on.)
For nature, they went to a free Catholic kids camp in the mountains for 2 weeks every summer. They also swam in the city pools when they didn't get chased off by the kids from whatever neighborhood had that "territory." They probably found places to hunt frogs, etc. I'll have to ask him about that.
I'll bet (in the suburbs anyway) there are far more parks, open spaces, trails, bicycles, and leisure hours now than ever before. Also, back in my dad's day there was no chance whatsoever of anybody packing you up in the car and taking you out of the city. They were just to busy raising 10 kids and working.
What is the difference now? Probably more and more people are living and working in and around the city. We would have settled in a small town on the plains long ago if there had been any way to bring in income. I wonder if now with the internet and fax machines providing the possibility of income from home, more people may be able to spread out. *That* would be ironic...more access to nature through technology!!
Hope I didn't wander too far from the topic 
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Last Child in the Woods--book study
