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JennGM
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amyable wrote:
Wow, a lot has happened since I first posted - is it possible it was only yesterday morning? 
Last night my dh came home and said he was given an offer for another position in his company!  Probably a promotion, with more advancement potential than where he is now. But he tells me it is also a position that SIX different people have filled in the last 10 years.  If he takes the position it may up our income but also up our stress most likely. |
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Wow, that is a lot of changes. Did people leave before in that position because of the stress, or asked to leave?
I wanted to address your questions about buying houses. I have a theory, but no numbers to back me...my dh had this figured out before. But inflation and such has changed many things in our society -- not that it is okay, but because you must provide for a family, things have had to adjust. I think the ratio for mortgage to yearly salary has changed drastically...at least in many areas. He talks about how his father bought land, built a brand new house in 1960 and the payments were small, and only a small percentage of his salary.
Maybe someone can provide the comparative data.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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hylabrook1
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Wow Amy!
Isn't it funny (not amusing, but interesting) that when we really start to think something over answers start to develop, and usually not in the way we would have imagined?
Something else I wanted to say about house size is that when children are all *little* they will be right under mommy's feet no matter how big the house is. As they grow, they develop a need for more private space, places where they can go to be apart from their parents' or siblings' *doings*, so that can change the way you all feel about the same square footage. Also, it's not just the square footage, but the size, relative location, and distribution of the rooms. Housing decisions are SO personal and individual for lots of reasons.
Peace,
Nancy
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Angel
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I'm trying to figure out how to write out my thoughts on the matter, so bear with me here, this may not all come out right  . And first let me say that I am coming from a relationship with a man whose family lost everything as a child -- house, business, *everything* -- and who never feels financially secure no matter how much money we have in the bank.
But here goes.
To me, my children's safety is my highest priority. If I had any concerns for their safety, I would have to ask myself *if* our desire to live debt-free wasn't disguising an unwillingness to sacrifice a wordly financial security for a higher good -- the safety of my children. In order to determine this, I would first have to ask my self (and my husband) whether the safety concerns were real, or just me worrying needlessly. (Sounds like yours are real to me.) *If* the safety concerns were real, then I guess I would have to ask myself (and my husband): how much is the safety of my children worth? Is it worth a longer commute, more house debt, a little more squeaking by from month to month?
This is all assuming that it's *possible* to find a suitable house and take on the debt it requires, too. I know we found this when we moved from a less expensive area to the northeast. Because my husband took the job, we had to incur a lot more debt than we were comfortable with. Fortunately the job has come through to cover it, but we were not happy, and I often think that we *should* have built a smaller, less expensive house instead of going with the one we bought. (For reference, it's 2700 sq.ft, and my kids are always right on top of me.  But I have a hard time keeping it clean, and wish we had stuck with a house a few hundred square feet smaller. 2000-2300 I think is about the upper limit for us.) It may also help to know that the house we bought happens to be on a busy road, and that we're thinking of moving (again)because of it. People stop in front of our house and just *sit* there sometimes, and they often turn around in our driveway, and it gives me the willies, especially since the kids are often outside in the backyard when this happens, and I can't be out there with them all the time.
I do think that there is a happy medium somewhere. Some people use the "safety" issue to mean a McMansion in the suburbs and take out all kinds of ultra-risky debt to finance it, and that's not good for the kids either. But maybe you can find a middle ground, in which you can handle *some* debt in order to find a safer neighborhood.
--Angela
Mom to 3+2
Three Plus Two
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Willa
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amyable wrote:
But then again, will having a bigger house really make the girls get OFF me? Is there no hope? (I'm laughing here, but in reality I'm literally crying thinking about this)
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We moved from a tiny (1100 sq feet, 2 bedroom) house with 4 children (expecting the fifth) to a house almost 3 times the size. But for quite a while the kids bunked upstairs in the loft (the master bedroom is upstairs) rather than use their very own bedroom downstairs. So I do think little kids will orbit around you, by preference, no matter what size your house is. The main difference I noticed was that there was more room for stuff, but I'm not really sure that's altogether a good thing 
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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amyable
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Angel wrote:
In order to determine this, I would first have to ask my self (and my husband) whether the safety concerns were real, or just me worrying needlessly. (Sounds like yours are real to me.) |
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This is a question in my mind, constantly - ARE my concerns real? My dh grew up near NY and crime was more prevelant, not in his neighborhood, but everywhere surrounding him. I think he is used to it. He is also safe at work every day. He doesn't see me trying to rush my children, who are as usual not really listening to me, into the house because there is a police helicopter hovering over our backyard and I don't know why, but can guess? (I did find out one time they were looking for a bank robber)
But I am well known in these parts for overreacting, too. This "seems" to be a nice, middle-class neighborhood, but these things are happening - how do I know they won't be happening in our next neighborhood?? For those of you reading this, do these things happen in your area? (bank robberies, a strange murder, helicopter manhunts, a kid getting held up at the high school, etc?) Do you feel safe having your kids play outside without you? Am I asking too much? 
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The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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amyable
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JennGM wrote:
| Wow, that is a lot of changes. Did people leave before in that position because of the stress, or asked to leave? |
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I was curious too, so I asked him last night. He said it was mostly because it was a dead end job for someone *without* his skill set. The people who had it before wound up moving on some other way. The company seems to be grooming my dh to take the new position for a short while, then moving him up to a higher management level. The other people who had the job couldn't go higher (did not have the right education, etc). At least that is what he says.
hylabrook1 wrote:
Something else I wanted to say about house size is that when children are all *little* they will be right under mommy's feet no matter how big the house is. As they grow, they develop a need for more private space, places where they can go to be apart from their parents' or siblings' *doings*, so that can change the way you all feel about the same square footage. Also, it's not just the square footage, but the size, relative location, and distribution of the rooms. Housing decisions are SO personal and individual for lots of reasons.
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Thank you for the reminder to think long term, Nancy - I tend to want to solve todays problems, and RIGHT NOW, without stepping back to think long term. Thankfully I have a dh who is just the opposite, for the most part!
Thinking of our square footage, it is small AND it is poorly laid out (at least some of it - i.e. bedrooms with no flexibility as to where to put furniture because of an odd shape, etc). I wonder if I'd even be able to go into a new house and see whether it was well laid out or not?? Guess that will be my new thread - what IS a nicely laid out house?? )
WJFR wrote:
| The main difference I noticed was that there was more room for stuff, but I'm not really sure that's altogether a good thing |
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Don't I know it, Willa! I am *hoping* that if and when we move into a larger home, that I'll remember to keep it free of the stuff that drives me so crazy here because it just doesn't have a home - not enough space. Let me rephrase that - POORLY ORGANIZED space. I keep thinking if we just had one or two more pieces of storage-like furniture, like a china cabinet, end tables with drawers - I could hide things away instead of always shuffling the pile from the dining room table to my desk and back.  Then again, to put a china cabinet in the diningroom we'd either have to move my desk or live with a small room overwhelmed by large furniture.
Hmmm...I think I'm getting way off topic, but I *so* appreciate everyones thoughts, comments, ideas, commiseration and prayers!!
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mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Angel
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amyable wrote:
But I am well known in these parts for overreacting, too. This "seems" to be a nice, middle-class neighborhood, but these things are happening - how do I know they won't be happening in our next neighborhood?? For those of you reading this, do these things happen in your area? (bank robberies, a strange murder, helicopter manhunts, a kid getting held up at the high school, etc?) Do you feel safe having your kids play outside without you? Am I asking too much? |
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Of all the places we have ever lived, only one comes close to what you're describing: when my husband and I lived in married student housing at a university in the DC area. Now, nothing ever happened to *us* personally, but several students were mugged in the parking lot. This kept me up at night. I am a worryer by nature, but I think this bothered my husband, too. We moved to another apartment.
I think that it's true that crime can happen anywhere, and you can't predict *every* danger that your family will ever have to face. But there is a pattern of crime which is present in certain areas that isn't present in others. One of the realtor sites (I can't remember which one) has a way of comparing crime rates, so maybe you should look for something like that. If you can see the crime statistics for various neighborhoods including your current one, you'll be able to compare them. (I know that sometimes even the fancy neighborhoods in many cities have high crime rates, just because of how the city is laid out. St. Louis was definitely like that.)
But to answer your question, of all the places we lived since we've had kids (one city-ish neighborhood, mostly suburban, and now out here in a small town), the most crime we've seen has been some teenage kids breaking into cars to steal stereos and CDs. And that's been rare.
--Angela
Mom to 3+2
Three Plus Two
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Cheryl
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amyable wrote:
| I keep thinking if we just had one or two more pieces of storage-like furniture, like a china cabinet, end tables with drawers - I could hide things away instead of always shuffling the pile from the dining room table to my desk and back. |
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I thought the same thing when we lived in our raised ranch. We bought a computer cabinet for our kitchen. We remodeled the basement adding 4 built-in bookshelves and 26 closed cabinets, which helped with storage. We put in built-ins making organized closets. Still, a raised ranch has a horrible lay-out. Maybe if our dc were in school it would have been ok, but for homeschooling we shuffled piles all day. We talked about putting an addition on the kitchen, but then decided that we didn't want to put that money into a house we might grow out of if we had more children.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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amyable
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Cheryl wrote:
| Still, a raised ranch has a horrible lay-out. Maybe if our dc were in school it would have been ok, but for homeschooling we shuffled piles all day. |
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Thank you! Yes!!  We have a raised ranch. I'm so glad it's not just ME that thinks this layout is bad.
And your thinking about "redoing and outgrowing" the house is *exactly* what we have been going back and forth about for the last 5 years! Let's fix it up... no let's move... no let's fix it up...no let's move...
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mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Cheryl
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amyable wrote:
| Let's fix it up... no let's move... no let's fix it up...no let's move... |
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That's exactly what we did. I felt like we were in limbo all the time. We did a ton of work on our yard because it was fun. We figured that the basement remodel would help us to sell our house if we moved later, but we didn't want to do much else because we wouldn't get the money back. There is only so much you can get for a small house. We ended up painting the bathrooms and fixing things before we put the house on the market. I wondered why we didn't just do these things while we lived there. I guess we were kind of busy.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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MarilynW
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amyable wrote:
But I am well known in these parts for overreacting, too. This "seems" to be a nice, middle-class neighborhood, but these things are happening - how do I know they won't be happening in our next neighborhood?? For those of you reading this, do these things happen in your area? (bank robberies, a strange murder, helicopter manhunts, a kid getting held up at the high school, etc?) Do you feel safe having your kids play outside without you? Am I asking too much? |
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I am known for over-reacting too!!
I think that it in a situation where there was a real security problem - I would move as quickly as possible. And I do think that there are places which are very unsafe eg the ones that come to mind are parts of inner city DC and Baltimore where there are murders every day, visible drug dealing etc. And every area has some "less savory" neighborhoods.
But - my view is that every area, however desirable or wealthy or upper class - can have security problems. e.g. a very wealthy suburban area not far from us - has had several domestic shooting incidents. Our local middle school which is seen as one of the best in the country - has had at least one girl raped in the school corridors. The best and wealthiest high school in the area has one of the worst drug problems (more money more drugs?)The grocery store 10 minutes away - in the middle of a very upscale residential area- had an armed robbery last year.
Also you never know who is going to move in - eg take that upscale Atlanta neighborhood where that pedophile connected with the Ramsey case moved in a few weeks ago.
We have had one situation with an unpleasant neighbor (different thread altogether) - who made me feel unsafe for a while - ironic as she works for the CIA - but after lots of prayers I feel better (part of my over-reacting. And having moved several times as a child, and young adult - I know that wherever you move there is no guarantees on neighbors.
I am not sure that I would ever feel comfortable about my children wandering around without me - whatever neighborhood. Even if I have my desired lots of acreage. I think back with nostalgia to my childhood where my siblings and I would disappear for hours without even having to tell my mom - go off for picnics and bike rides. But I do not think we can ever find somewhere like that. My older ones are finally old enough that I let them play outside in the fenced back yard and let the toddler play with them too. But I do check on them often!
Anyway - that is my very long 2c worth!
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stefoodie
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Since we're talking house sizes, layout and organization, I thought I'd throw out a book that I love
The Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka (she has other books too but the first is my favorite)
for those of you who have the option to build or remodel. Learned a lot from this book about making the most of little spaces: if building from scratch, how to build-in those small touches that give your house both the character and the storage space you need. Also, how to use your home's spaces smartly so that a room isn't just used for one purpose, e.g., eating.
Most of us don't need a formal living room/dining room. But the houses that are being sold/built today still have these. They either become wasted space, or they're used for a different purpose (e.g., one friend uses the living room as his office) -- so if you could remodel/build, you can, for example, have one great room instead (my dream) that will be your family room/library/dining room/living room/playroom -- space that you can use all the time and still make presentable (through clever built-ins like closets/shelves or sliding doors) when company comes.
Basically the message is that you don't have to have a large house to have all the space you need. (One disappointment: she also features BIG houses in the book. I was under the impression it was only about small houses. But I guess there are people who could afford 10,000 square feet but choose instead to build "only" 5,000)
And yes, that safety thing is more a comfort level issue. We've lived in different types of neighborhoods since we got married so we know our tolerance level. But more and more often I wonder if safety is just an illusion, esp. after I checked out our local police dept's offender registry. I still don't let the kids run around outside without keeping a close eye on them and limiting their play area, and I often wish I didn't have to. And to think that we chose this neighborhood because of the safety issue -- the nearest offender is just a block away.
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MarilynW
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amyable wrote:
I wonder if I'd even be able to go into a new house and see whether it was well laid out or not?? Guess that will be my new thread - what IS a nicely laid out house?? )
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Amy - I do think this is a whole thread. It is a subject that I have spent (too much?) time musing upon. My journal is literally fully of plans for a well laid out house for a homeschooling family. (But then - when I was a little girl - I spent lots of times perusing Country Life (British Country Estate houses magazine)and planning my dream house!!!)I could write reams on what I see is the perfect design - though this really is a personal thing. I always think of "Dad" in "Cheaper by the Dozen" who arranged their houses for an "efficient flow of energy" - and I like that idea.
I would like a house built to get all the features we needed - rather than going with a lot of waste of space. In a nutshell my priorities (including "luxuries") would be:
- large kitchen
- large and well organized laundry room
- bedrooms - one large for all the boys(with own bathroom), one large for all the girls (with own bathroom), master bedroom (plus bathroom), guest room for grandparents etc
- wood/laminate floor because of allergies
- lots of windows
- school room and library that can be closed off
- front porch with a nice view
(ok - so you can tell my fixation with adequate bathrooms)
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Natalia
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Marilyn's post reminded me of movie we just watched: Mr Blanding Builds His Dream House. It is an old movie with Cary Grant and Myrna Lloyd. This couple has been living in a small apartment in NYC and getting in each other's way. They only have one bathroom and no privacy. Then one day they get tired and decide to find their dream house. One thing leads to another... and they end up building. It is funny movie with some good points to discuss and think.
Natalia
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stefoodie
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Oh my gosh, Marilyn! Have we been designing the same house???
Seriously, those are ALL the things on my design too (I've probably done a dozen or so in the last 6 years since we've been on the building-buying-building-buying see-saw.
If I were an architect/builder reading this I'd pounce on this marketing idea: Houses Specially Designed for Homeschoolers. Any of you have architect hubbies or are architects yourselves? My hubby would be more amenable to building, I think, if there was a plan and cost analysis I could show him.
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amyable
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Well, I blogged a few days ago about my husband taking the new position for real, and how we were not going to move for AT LEAST a year to give him some time to settle, see if there was job security in it, etc.
That all went out the window today.
I found out that a few days ago there was a shooting at the local supermarket. The supermarket!! Someone was trying to rob it (in the morning, maybe 7:30? I don't know all the details yet), the police came, and one policeman was critically shot , and the gunman was killed.
This is supposedly a "nice suburb." What is the world coming to?
Dh called me on the way home from work and told me. I half jokingly said something about putting the house on the market, and he said, in all seriousness, "OK Amy, whatever you want."
I think these recent problems are shaking him up as much as me.
Thanks again (and again!) for all your thoughts in the previous posts. Maybe someday soon I'll be posting for house sale and moving advice!
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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momwise
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I really feel I should post here with my story. 3 years ago we lived where I thought God had placed us: in an inner-city neighborhood, with 12 years left on a 15 yr. mortgage at 5.5%. I thought as little debt as possible was indicative that we were continuing to do God's will. We had 6 kids in a 1600 sq.ft. bi-level with no basement so we were not cramped; except maybe in the property, which was surrounded by other houses and about 4500 sq.ft.
Over the years we were hit with a drive-by shooting, down the block and a suicide across the street, then a vacant house on the corner, and finally, the boys who had grown up next door started to sell drugs out of their driveway. Over the last two years we were there, I prayed constantly to make sure God still wanted us to stay.
My dh worked 50min. away but we could not afford the town where he worked (Boulder...ha). One day after working with the drug undercover in our area for weeks, and seeing no results, my dh said we were going to have to move. Long story short, we prayed the 30 day prayer to St. Joseph to determine whether to put the house on the market and 2 wks. into it my dh called from work to say he had listed the house. Buyer #1 fell through...new 30day prayer...buyer #2 fell threw...the house we contracted on fell through...new 9-day novena to St. Joseph...new buyer...and...on the 9th day we found a house we never dreamed of asking for and they accepted our bid! I never slept well until we left the closing with our check but I should have known St. Joseph was in charge.
So my advice...(I know, I'm too bossy)is to start your prayers to St. Joseph (it doesn't matter whether your dh is Catholic or not...mine isn't), let him decide on where you will go and what you will get, and you will rest in peace in the knowledge that God's will is being done.
Ed: I forgot to mention that we are within 20 min. of Boulder now, on 1/3 acre, and our culdesac backs up to a historical landmark and a church soccer field. A lot different than lookin out your window to see drug dealers up and down the street on their cell phones.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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almamater
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Great story, Gwen!
Stef, I looove the Sara Susanka designs,too. Although, I must confess that I do like a dining room and we use ours, too. If she's willing to bend on that point (and I think she would), she would be my dream architect!
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~jennifer in tx
mommy of ds(11),dd(8),dd(6), dd(3),& ds (6/08)
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amyable
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amyable wrote:
I found out that a few days ago there was a shooting at the local supermarket. The supermarket!! |
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OK, I finally read an article on it, and I got some details wrong. The shooting wasn't IN the supermarket, no...the *armed robbery* was in the supermarket, the shooting happened *in the neighborhood*, in someone's backyard after the robber escaped. This does NOT make me feel better...
Apparently, there were armed undercover policemen at the supermarket that morning because there have been 6 recent armed robberies in the area. 
Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend... visiting realtor.com, seeing how much house we can afford, and decluttering decluttering decluttering!
ETA: ...and of course starting a St. Joseph novena!
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Philosophical new house/moving questions
