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Rebecca
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 7:21pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
And that's great too! But the couple has every right to decide on the wedding they want. |
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Maybe that is what I find sad in it all, that most people by their own choice,decide to exclude children. They assume children will be ill behaved or that the reception will be better without them. It seems to me just another way that our society is not appreciative of children. My husband and I were invited to a friend's wedding. Our children were not on the invitation. Although I thought it was sad, I did not call and complain of course. However, I did call to see whether my four month old nursling could attend and I was told "No children, no exceptions." Needless to say, I did not attend.
Martha wrote:
| If this was a dinner and reception for a high school reunion or business or maybe even a fancy golden anniversary, no one would think of bringing their kids. It's an adult function and they wouldn't expect the kids to act like mini-adults or expect the adults to change the menu and plans to cater kids. |
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There is a difference between a wedding and a reunion. Matrimony is, of course, a Sacrament, not just another opportunity for adults to dress up and have a party. It is completely different from a high school reunion or a golden anniversary because it is instituted by God, not man. It is something I believe that children should witness, not be purposely excluded from. (Just my opinion of course).
Martha wrote:
| However, my sil thinks it's perfectly okay for her kid to scream, yell, run around in circles risking damage to decor and elderly, crying over having to eat adult food and no one is making her a corndog. yelling out rude comments that aren't funny, but she thinks we should find it cute. "It's just the way kids are." And there are a LOT of people like my sil I have learned over the years. I have seen some pretty horrific behavior and seen parents get furious because people actually expected them to put a stop to it. (I've seen a 3 yo spit his food into the punch bowl. I've seen a 12 yr old moon a video recorder. I've seen a kid knock into an elderly lady with a walker while running around playing tag - in a sanctuary. Granted this isn't always weddings, but still it always shocks me what I see parents let their kids get away with in the name of "being cute" or "just being a kid". |
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Yikes. I do not have perfect children by any stretch but I cannot imagine anyone doing these things. They are certainly unacceptable behaviors anywhere.
Martha wrote:
| I can see that, but I don't think there's any requirement or that it's wrong not to have children there. |
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I don't think it is morally wrong either, just sad.
Martha wrote:
| Honestly, I'm astonished anyone would even think to question how someone else plans and invites for an event. It's their wedding, time, expense, and memory being made. To tell them who they should invite and how they should plan the wedding to accomodate me... that would never occur to me for any function wedding or otherwise. If I can go, then great. But if I can't then I accept that too. I wouldn't even mention it unless asked. Then I would quietly say I was staying home with my kids and leave it at that. |
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I would never tell someone else how to plan their wedding either, but I still find it sad when kids are excluded.
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Michaela
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| Posted: Nov 07 2006 at 7:29pm | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
Michaela,
Apologies for hi-jacking your thread  How has it gone with your mum? Have you talked things out with her yet? All the best  |
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No apology necessary, Erin.
I hope no one minds me posting an update.
Sunday afternoon I went to visit my mom & neice (she lives with my mom on weekends). I was happy to be able to give her the gift letting her know we didn't forget about her.
DH called my neice while I was there to apologize for not coming along to give her the gift. He asked her how was the dinner...what did she get (small talk).
She told him they didn't go because my mom told her that when she asked us   I told her we already ate dinner . 
So my mom used us to call the whole thing off because something else going on at the time. 
DH told her that wasn't the truth (my neice is 17, old enough IMHO to know the truth).
DH told her we weren't invited.
At first, I thought he shouldn't have said anything, maybe it would have been better to ignore it all, however, after thinking about it some more I'm glad the blame isn't on us.
The dramatics & "games" around here are honestly too much for me. I'm not used to all this. I married DH when I was 18 & I left home for 17 years traveling with DH where the army sent us. Coming back to this stuff is, to put it nicely, very stressful.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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Michaela
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OK, now that you all know what's happened.....would you suggest talking to my mom? I mean telling her what my neice told me & try to get it out there?
I'm not sure what it would accomplish but add more sour feelings. My mom has a personality that she can do no wrong & it's always the other person's fault. Somehow it will be my fault.....I didn't ask if we could go...so she needed to cancel. (I know the real reason she cancelled -- it has nothing to do with us.)
I don't even know how to word it with her. It's another thing I'll hold inside & a reason to add to why I want out of here & back to Vegas.
My greatest prayer is my children & I can have a relationship that's open & we can talk. No hard feelings over issues that just aren't being discussed.
Thoughts from any wise woman?
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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Taffy
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I'm sorry you have to put up with all these "games" Micheala. They happen with my dh's family too and I also find them quite irritating.
I've been thinking about this thread quite a bit and I want to stop! So I'm hoping that by posting my thoughts, I'll be able to move on!
Martha wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
| I cannot imagine any reason not to invite children to the wedding ceremony itself. |
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I do.
1. I have never heard of being invited to either the ceremony OR the reception. It's an understood that the invite is to both.
2. Most children these days never go to a service or a Mass and have no idea how to behave. |
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I'd be happy to have an excuse to get children to Mass if they are so ill-informed, wedding Massses included. Mass is especially important for those with limited opportunity to go. And Mass is for everyone - even for those who we find ill-behaved. If the reception is a poor fit for children, then state it on the invite.
Martha wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
| for fear of their normal child noises and giggles "ruining" a perfectly dull time. When I say children running about I do not mean misbehaving but having the lovely fun that children do when allowed to act as children and not little grown ups. |
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I don't claim perfect child and I don't lump children who are not as ill behaved. But that's just the key there isn't it?
If this was a dinner and reception for a high school reunion or business or maybe even a fancy golden anniversary, no one would think of bringing their kids. It's an adult function and they wouldn't expect the kids to act like mini-adults or expect the adults to change the menu and plans to cater kids.
Then there's what one person considers good behavior vs what another would require. Fairly quiet (babies do gurgle and such of course) and fairly still (swinging legs and some jitterryness is just part of being a little kid). However, my sil thinks it's perfectly okay for her kid to scream, yell, run around in circles risking damage to decor and elderly, crying over having to eat adult food and no one is making her a corndog. yelling out rude comments that aren't funny, but she thinks we should find it cute. "It's just the way kids are." And there are a LOT of people like my sil I have learned over the years. I have seen some pretty horrific behavior and seen parents get furious because people actually expected them to put a stop to it. (I've seen a 3 yo spit his food into the punch bowl. I've seen a 12 yr old moon a video recorder. I've seen a kid knock into an elderly lady with a walker while running around playing tag - in a sanctuary. Granted this isn't always weddings, but still it always shocks me what I see parents let their kids get away with in the name of "being cute" or "just being a kid". |
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Every single one of these behaviours I have seen displayed by adults and those "old enough to know better" (we're talking seniors here). Except for playing tag in the sanctuary - not too many adults are up for that. Most of the time, such behaviour is excused as "having a good time" (meaning starting with the booze a little early).
Being a parent of a child who's been known to exhibit strange behaviour for legitimate reasons (he's special needs and doesn't always pick up social rules without a lot of instruction), I've learned to be more tolerant. I am also a godmother to a child with behaviour issues directly due to developmental delays. This boy's mother had to get a lawyer and a doctor to explain to social services that her son's poor behaviour was not due to poor parenting. Both he and my son look absolutely normal - you wouldn't know they were disabled by looking at them. Because of them, I now know not to judge others too quickly. Those children who are behaving poorly may have problems you don't know about. (And parents who expect them to handle late nights and formal receptions are a child's problem too)
And remember that where the booze flows freely (as it does often at wedding receptions) that the adults aren't exactly models of proper behaviour either.
I don't think that one should be forced to accomodate children at weddings. I find it sad when they won't though. Weddings are about children after all. The beginning of a new family. And it's sad that more care and attention is spent on minor details, rather than on the people who are a part of it... God, the bride and groom, and their families. After all, when a woman gets married she isn't only gaining a husband but the in-laws as well! 
And I am also sorry to continue hijacking this thread Michaela. Trying to get a family who's used to not communicating honestly to change can be challenging. I'll pray that you'll win the battle!
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Susan
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Taffy
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Michaela,
Well, I'm not wise but I'll offer up my thoughts. Be direct and honest with her. Don't apologize and don't try to get her state her real reasons for cancelling the supper. Tell her you were disappointed that you weren't invited. And tell her that you were hurt by her lie to your niece.
Simply state your feelings and accept whatever she says to you in return. Hopefully, she'll apologize and offer to be more honest in the future. If not, accept it and move on. You can't control what she does after all, only how you react to her.
Blessings,
__________________
Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
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lapazfarm
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Wow. I guess it must be a cultural thing, but I have never heard of a wedding or reception without children. Hispanic and Italian weddings and receptions tend to be more like big, rowdy family love-fests than formal, showy affairs. I think the last three weddings I have attended have had more children than adults in attendance (even in the wedding party) and no one would have wanted it any other way. Children in the culture dh and I come from are treasured members of the extended family and if we were to show up without ours we would be in big trouble from all those doting aunts and uncles and godparents and so on! Of course all of our family is Catholic and the children are used to attending Mass and know how to behave. If not, they are promptly scooped, up and taken outside by a parent, uncle, aunt, grandmother...you get the picture.
Anyway, our weddings are big happy loving family celebrations. And because of this my children LOVE weddings (And break-dancing contests at the reception, which is highly encouraged by all adults as we cheer them on!)and look forward to their own lively weddings some day.
Is this just a Latin thing?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Martha
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Okay, I'm really tired and dh is out of town for a while now, so I'm really, really tired.  So I'll try to make this short, not easy for long-winded me.
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. That was not my intent at all.
Any Catholic Mass is open to anyone that walks in the door. (not the eucharist, but the mass in general) If we are talking about the reception in let's say the parish hall? No, it's not public. It's private. Although without bouncers at the door I imagine "strays" could wander in at will.
I have no issue with a wedding or any other occassion that welcomes children. That's great.
All I'm saying is for just reasons of logistics &/or cost, I can understand why we are not invited more often. I wish there was a polite way to say, "Hey we want to come too! If we can pay our way and the kids behave and the place can seat 10 more in your party would you invite us?!" But there isn't, so we're stuck a bit. Although, to be fair to my mil - she is trying more to meet me in the middle in the last year. Who knows? Maybe by the time the kids are grown we'll have completely won her over. 
Michaela -
I think your dh was right to be honest with your niece, because now she knows to just speak directly to you guys. No reason to let another's lie come between your relationship. But I wouldn't bother hashing it out with mom. It'll just feel like banging against a brick wall. I found great peace when I accepted that is just how they are. "It's not personal." was my mental mantra for years. They would be and are like this with anyone who lets them.
I'm sorry. You have my prayers. It always hurts.
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Martha
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Erin
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| Posted: Nov 08 2006 at 12:04am | IP Logged
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Michaela wrote:
| I hope no one minds me posting an update. |
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Very pleased to hear an update I've been praying.
I didn't realise you have only just come back to to family, how doublely disappointing.
Taffy wrote:
Well, I'm not wise but I'll offer up my thoughts. Be direct and honest with her. Don't apologize and don't try to get her state her real reasons for cancelling the supper. Tell her you were disappointed that you weren't invited. And tell her that you were hurt by her lie to your niece.
Simply state your feelings and accept whatever she says to you in return. Hopefully, she'll apologize and offer to be more honest in the future. If not, accept it and move on. You can't control what she does after all, only how you react to her. |
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Taffy speaks some very wise words here, another trick that I have used is to use the phrase 'I feel' eg. 'when I was not invited I felt..' it is not as accusatory as saying 'you' eg 'you didn't invite me and you are ....' it is worth a try. For many years dh and I avoided confronting issues with mil and if we had many misunderstandings could have been avoided but then again it may not work and as Martha says you may in the end have to accept that you can't change her.
Martha, I for one am not offended AT ALL for you looking at things a little different to me. In fact you have made me re-think things by your comments and additionally I admire you immensely for 'going against the flow' 
Michaela, I giggled over you wanting to go to Vegas, my image of Vegas is quickie marriages and gambling casinos, obviously normal people live there too. 
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Erin
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Elizabeth
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Martha wrote:
| If this was a dinner and reception for a high school reunion or business or maybe even a fancy golden anniversary, no one would think of bringing their kids. It's an adult function and they wouldn't expect the kids to act like mini-adults or expect the adults to change the menu and plans to cater kids. |
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My nursing baby went to my 20th high school reunion with my teenager along to take care of her between feedings. A lot of eyebrows were raised. But a lot of eyebrows were raised when they learned she was the seventh baby too. It's all counter-cultural.
And, I can't imagine a golden anniversary without the chilren and grandchildren and great-grandchildren who are the fruits of that marriage present. Wouldn't seem like much of a celebration to me. I'm most looking forward to grandchildren in my old age. Just try to keep them away from me!
Martha, I think your objection to ill-behaved children is a legitimate one. Children really should behave well everywhere they go and certainly that's what we hope.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Martha
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Elizabeth wrote:
My nursing baby went to my 20th high school reunion with my teenager along to take care of her between feedings. A lot of eyebrows were raised. But a lot of eyebrows were raised when they learned she was the seventh baby too. It's all counter-cultural.
And, I can't imagine a golden anniversary without the chilren and grandchildren and great-grandchildren who are the fruits of that marriage present. Wouldn't seem like much of a celebration to me. I'm most looking forward to grandchildren in my old age. Just try to keep them away from me!
Martha, I think your objection to ill-behaved children is a legitimate one. Children really should behave well everywhere they go and certainly that's what we hope. |
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We took one of our babies to a reunion too. My point was not that dc shouldn't be at such events. (esp. nursing ones) My point was that people get sitters all the time for much less important events and think nothing of being expected to do it.
I agree children should behave at all times, (sure wish mine would!) but failing to do so shouldn't get them marked for life either. Or get the entire age bracket black-balled. As another posted mentioned, I too try to merciful most of the time. (And I surely do hope others give me the same mercy on our bad days. )
I try to be understanding, but unfortunately there are times when people just don't want kids around for no reason other than they are kids. They may have someone there with only a few, but it's usually a "toloration" not out of greater affection. At least that's my experience.
So I come again to my old mantra, "It's not personal. It's not personal."
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Martha
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Erica Sanchez
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saintanneshs wrote:
| My 4 little ones, who are usually very well-behaved (dh's family is always commenting on this ) were however, invited to be in my sister-in-law's wedding PHOTOS (taken between the wedding and the reception which they weren't invited to). My sister-in-law was pretty upset that her niece and nephews weren't going to get to see her in her wedding dress or at all on her wedding day. Does this make any sense?? |
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LOL, oh my goodness, the nerve! This is by far the craziest thing I have ever heard in regards to children attending a wedding! Kristen, I definitely WOULD NOT have had the kids do it either. I seriously can't believe it was even asked of you!
We had a HUGE wedding....500+ people invited, about 400 present. Of course we included kids and not just because of the Hispanic factor. It was fun! The Mass was very formal, 3 priests and all. The reception was great, even somewhat lovely. BUT, we did have PAPER PLATES! It was the only argument Cash and I ever had pre-marriage (I lost). We've had a few since I think if we have a big anniversary party down the line, we'll have paper plates just because!
Oh, one more thing. Most of the kids invited to our wedding were younger cousins. Those sames cousins are now getting married and our children have only been invited to one of their weddings.
As far as cost, I think you choose whether or not you want children at your wedding and then you plan the reception. Just my very humble opinion.
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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stacykay
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Michaela,
I typed a reply which I inadvertantly erased!
This will be shorter.
Not knowing your mom, I can only tell you my personal experience.
I had a couple of problems that cropped up with my mil, that I just couldn't let pass. They were affecting my whole family (especially my dh, of whom I am very protective .)
I hate confrontation, but I called her with the first problem and told her how I felt, and how it affected us all. I tried to do it in the most loving way (of course,) but it was sooooo hard. I cried and she cried, and we ended up closer than I'd ever dreamed.
The second time was in person, and I just had to tell her how her actions were hurting us. Again, very hard to do, but we are so much closer. I went from a mil who didn't want us to get married and was not going to come to our wedding to a mil that loves me like a daughter. It took a long! time (just celebrated 21 years in May,) but very worth it.
So, to make a long story short , I would talk to your mom. But, you do know her best.
I'll pray for you!!!!
God Bless,
Stacy in MI
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Family -- too big for invites
