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Karen E.
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WJFR wrote:
If I ASKED my husband what he thought my highest priorities ought to be he would say something like "that you stay happy". And he would mean it.  But beyond that, I can tell what his priorities are from staying tuned in to him.... they are not always the same in all circumstances... there is a hierarchy. He likes a clean house, but not at the expense of a screaming baby, etc. And above all, he doesn't want me doing things with a frazzled, hurried, miserable spirit so I try to arrange things so there's a Plan A and B and plenty of options for streamlining if necessary. I try to plan ahead, to leave margin for life to have some spontaneity, because that is important to him. I try to smooth his path. I try not to make a big deal when it takes a while to get to the "honey do" lists because I know he's busy and because he extends me the same kind of patience. He likes to have interesting conversations so I try not to get too mentally bogged down in the nitty-gritty of home management and domestic life. I laugh at his jokes -- usually not too challenging a task, since his sense of humor is part of the reason this melancholic fell in love with him originally 25 years ago!
For another husband the details would be different, I'm sure. |
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Ummm, no, Willa ... I think we married the same man.
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Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Nov 04 2006 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
| See for me this is literal. But perhaps the story loses something in an urban setting. |
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I think this might be some of the difficulty.
Also, Kim, on your blog, you distilled the story down to "there were times I thought I was helping and it wasn't helpful" (I'm paraphrasing) and that, too, makes sense to me.
The story itself didn't speak to me very directly, but many of the comments here do.
Kim F wrote:
| Was it manipulative? I don't think so. I just knew I could do better with what I did. He followed suit. I don't think it occurred to him that it would be appropriate to request more. Nor did it occur to me that he would offer what he did. We both just realized that things work better this way. |
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Again, a great clarification.
Kim F wrote:
| I think so much of this is a modern problem. So few of us today grew up with ingrained images of of an ideal functioning family. We are learning as we go. |
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So true. Very true for me, for us.
Our marriage has been made and remade many times over the years, and we're still learning. Our keys are talking, and talking, and talking.
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Patty LeVasseur
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Kim F wrote:
That he just wanted us happy, that we were fine etc. I think men today are programmed NOT to ask for more or to suggest women could be doing things differently. I used that reasoning for years to sleep a little later, let the standards slip a tad, and to pursue my own agenda projects rather than really addressing the home.
Kim
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Hi Kim,
It is funny how sometimes the same sentence can mean two different things. I said that my husband wants me "to be happy". And to some extent I think that is true the way I think you understood that, but what I meant when I said that was that my husband wants me to be optimistic and to not worry about everything. I really struggle with this.
When I was dating my husband, I was a lot more carefree. But then you own a house and a car or two and have some children and, in some cases, have a farm full of animals and suddenly there are a lot of things to worry about. I have been listening to myself lately when I talk to my husband and a lot of times I sound like I am reciting a list of things that are worrying me. Now maybe this was a bad week to do this as we needed a new furnace and my car's break light keeps coming on every time I turn right. But I don't know that this week was really that different.
Does any one have any advice on how to make your home that refuge for your husband, the place where he wants to go to retreat and feel loved, when life keeps giving you things to worry about?
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Patty
mom to four blessings
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Kim F
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Patty, it's funny but I was thinking the same things last night. Dh said I think we are having a role reversal lol! He used to be the one to gripe about the house and now I tend to be more fretful. Part of it is just fear because I was in a good place with order before the last baby but then afterwards when dh was between jobs for some months and baby was here it all fell apart. Plus I am a 33wk hormonal mess which doesn't help!
I sat at dinner last night thinking over all the kids hadn't done all day and was sure we were to be sunk. Then it occurred to me that what I always tell friends who start to think that way is - Satan. God convicts but Satan terrifies.
I went into the bathroom and cried for a second offering it all up along the way. Noone at the table knew. We finished eating and suddenly all the kids fell into step and cleaned the kitchen as planned. The girl who had been sick and who is perpetually sloppy decided to go through her room and cleaned it all up on her own. (this after long days of pleading from me) We went to bed peaceful and I learned a valuable lesson. Keep it quiet, offer it up, trust that God will provide for our lack.
I had just been reading an historic homemaking book also and was struck by the author's insistence that no other occupation had such potential to stress you out. That shining new gadgets soon rust and break, pipes leak, budgets fail, animals get sick, and in general disaster is always just at bay. She told new homemakers that it would take all the fortitude they could muster to avoid fretfulness and anxiety. She was right!
As a Catholic we also know who is the source of fear and worry. I figured since there has been such progress that there would also be increased challenges. So it is. But hey, fortitude is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
the kids were asking about St Therese telling God she wanted to be a saint. I had commented that God always says yes to that. They asked how. I said well He gives us all the means to do it. We just have to recognize those means in the everyday trials we face. I keep thinking these little (and big) anxieties could well be the means God has for me get to heaven so I am not wasting them. Ok some days I am wasting them.... But this is how I am getting through them lets say.
Kim
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Bridget
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What men do NOT want is for their wife to almost throw away their Detroit Tigers hand towel that they got for being the, whatever number, of fan to arrive at the Tigers only winning game in the World Series this year. What kind of wife would do that?
Poor guy. But i still maintain my innocence about the disappearance of his Devo shirt from college. 
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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BrendaPeter
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Bridget wrote:
In the morning, ask him what you can pray for about his day, then do it.
Educate and raise his children well so he is proud of his family.
Make his home pleasant.
Make good food.
When he comes home, greet him with joy.
Be passionate and happy in marital relations, often.
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So Bridget, when is your book coming out? And I'm guessing you just threw this together, based on your own experience. I'm very impressed...
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Lisbet
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I too, am very impressed with Bridget's list and how quickly she threw it together, and well, thinking about the things she wrote proved to be very helpful to me in a few instances over the weekend. I'm really going to think through my own 'rule of 6 for marriage'.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
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Cheryl
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My dh was impressed by Bridget's list. I read it to him when she first posted it and he said something like...change it to a 36 font, bold it, print it out and tape it to the wall....
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Cheryl
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Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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MicheleQ
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Bridget wrote:
| We ARE on our own in figuring out what a Catholic marriage looks like. The exciting part is that we CARE. We want to figure out what would please God and our husbands in our homes. This fact alone is a blessing to our husbands. |
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I do know what you mean here Bridget but of course we really aren't alone in this because we have the Holy Spirit to help us and we do in fact have the perfect model of marriage which is Christ and His bride, the Church (whose very soul IS the Holy Spirit). This truly is our model for how marriage is to work. The mutual submission of the spouses, which as Elizabeth pointed out we need to understand correctly, is where we start and Christ and His bride the Church is where we see the perfect example of what that should look like.
Elizabeth wrote:
The important thing to take from the story, from my perspective, is that we must give proper time and attention to the affairs of our household, the education of our children, and -and this was a real revelation to me-our own wellbeing in order to be a good helpmeet to our husbands. The woman in the story did none of those. Her priorities-her rule of life-were out of whack. Makes me ponder...what's the Rule of Six for a happy marriage?
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It would be different for each of us. Oh sure some will look very similar but some may not be similar at all. The practical applications simply aren't going to look the same for everyone which is why I tried to stress that we need to look at the universal message first. In other words what is true must be true for all marriages, in all parts of the world and in all cultures.
I hope this is coherent. Although my headache is no longer of migraine intensity I am still pretty foggy from this sinus infection.
I do have more I'd like to write but I really am having trouble thinking clearly so I'll spare you.
I would like to recommend Genevieve Kineke's new book The Authentic Catholic Woman. I think she does a really beautiful job of helping us to see what it means to be an authentic Catholic woman...whatever our circumstances.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Bridget
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MicheleQ wrote:
we really aren't alone in this because we have the Holy Spirit to help us and we do in fact have the perfect model of marriage which is Christ and His bride, the Church (whose very soul IS the Holy Spirit). This truly is our model for how marriage is to work.
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True. No question. But I have a very hard time taking that spiritual reality and translating it into a practical application for an imperfect man and woman with piles of laundry, a old van full of young children and all that goes with it.
Thats why the explicit directions of St. Paul are so helpful to me.
Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
1 Corinthians 11:9 (The whole passage is so beautiful.)
And of course, Ephesians 5:22-25
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Willa
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Kim F wrote:
As a Catholic we also know who is the source of fear and worry. I figured since there has been such progress that there would also be increased challenges. So it is. But hey, fortitude is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
the kids were asking about St Therese telling God she wanted to be a saint. I had commented that God always says yes to that. They asked how. I said well He gives us all the means to do it. We just have to recognize those means in the everyday trials we face. I keep thinking these little (and big) anxieties could well be the means God has for me get to heaven so I am not wasting them. Ok some days I am wasting them.... But this is how I am getting through them lets say. |
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Well said, Kim.
I so agree and it's a good reminder.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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MicheleQ
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Bridget wrote:
| But I have a very hard time taking that spiritual reality and translating it into a practical application for an imperfect man and woman with piles of laundry, a old van full of young children and all that goes with it. |
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Sure and I DO think it's helpful for us to share what our personal practical applications might be. I hope I didn't sound like I was saying otherwise. But I do think understanding and meditatiing on the spiritual realities ARE helpful in understanding the practical aspects. At least that has been my experience.
I think you really might like Genevieve's book Bridget. Maybe check it out when the budget allows.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Bridget
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MicheleQ wrote:
| we do in fact have the perfect model of marriage which is Christ and His bride, the Church (whose very soul IS the Holy Spirit). This truly is our model for how marriage is to work. |
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I keep thinking about how to understand this.
If the marriage relationship is representative of the Church (the bride of Christ), does it follow that as wives are submissive to their husband's headship, so goes the Church in it's submission to the headship of Christ.
Is there a correlation between wives refusing their husband's authority and Catholics refusing to accept the authority of the Church. Especially in recent years.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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MicheleQ
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Bridget wrote:
MicheleQ wrote:
| we do in fact have the perfect model of marriage which is Christ and His bride, the Church (whose very soul IS the Holy Spirit). This truly is our model for how marriage is to work. |
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I keep thinking about how to understand this.
If the marriage relationship is representative of the Church (the bride of Christ), does it follow that as wives are submissive to their husband's headship, so goes the Church in it's submission to the headship of Christ.
Is there a correlation between wives refusing their husband's authority and Catholics refusing to accept the authority of the Church. Especially in recent years. |
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Brilliant insight Bridget! I would say absolutely yes. I don't think it's a conincidence at all.
I'm in an parish "adult ed" class right now that is divided between those of us who believe in obedience to Christ and His church and those who maintain their right to dissent and keep spouting the "We are Church" line.
This is definitely the fruit of feminisim (and let me tell you it is ever so wearing. I leave that group feeling like I have spent the entire time banging my head against the wall. Our pastor is feeling similar but he has asked us all to stay and continue to try because he believes the truth will prevail. God bless him. At least we have his support and he has ours).
Anyway, to understand it properly we have to look at the Bride of Christ as she is called to be and I have found the Vatican II documents to be rich food for such understanding as well as the Catechism.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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MicheleQ
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MicheleQ wrote:
Bridget wrote:
MicheleQ wrote:
| we do in fact have the perfect model of marriage which is Christ and His bride, the Church (whose very soul IS the Holy Spirit). This truly is our model for how marriage is to work. |
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I keep thinking about how to understand this.
If the marriage relationship is representative of the Church (the bride of Christ), does it follow that as wives are submissive to their husband's headship, so goes the Church in it's submission to the headship of Christ.
Is there a correlation between wives refusing their husband's authority and Catholics refusing to accept the authority of the Church. Especially in recent years. |
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Brilliant insight Bridget! I would say absolutely yes. I don't think it's a conincidence at all.
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Just to clarify, this would only be true in so far as the human element of the Church. In her divine element the Church is the indefectibly Holy Body and Bride of Christ.
She does not err and she does not disobey.
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
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MicheleQ
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"Christ loves the Church as His bride, having become the model of a man loving his wife as his body; the Church, indeed, is subject to its Head. "Because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily", He fills the Church, which is His body and His fullness, with His divine gifts so that it may expand and reach all the fullness of God."
#7
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
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Michele Quigley
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Bridget
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Beautiful. Now how does the concept of mutual submission in marriage fit this? Christ is God. It is His Church. He does not submit to Her.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Philothea
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He laid down His life for Her. He sacrificed His life to make Her holy.
Our husbands, too, are called to that lofty ideal. They must die to self and do whatever it takes to make their wives holier. They are, in a sense, responsible for whether we make it to heaven or not. They are supposed to be helping us get there. Just like Jesus did for the Church.
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Kim F
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<,Our husbands, too, are called to that lofty ideal. They must die to self and do whatever it takes to make their wives holier. They are, in a sense, responsible for whether we make it to heaven or not.>>
Agreed. However I think where most discussions about wifely duty derail is when they begin to focus on what the man is supposed to do. Really it is irrelevant to our part of it. We each have a call. The men are not off the hook if their wives are bitter, lazy, or gossips or whatnot. Likewise we have our own call and it is not dependent upon whether our husbands appear to be worthy of our submission, devotion, etc. We are simply to see them as Jesus for us, as Bridget's mom described, and serve as best we can because it is our part, not because they have earned it.
I think the whole point of the story also is that men are more inclined to rise to that noble calling when their wives are humble, gentle, and loving in all those ways Bridget mentions. While they may be responsible for the spiritual wellbeing of the family we must also recognize the incredible influence we have upon them by our actions and demeanor. We can undermine so easily and then end up resentful that they are not doing their part.
Anyway, I just feel its best for me to focus on what God wants me to do. We were reading a story tothe children last week about families and how they are like orchestras. If one instrument is out of tune it sours the whole piece. Each musician is responsible for tuning his own instrument. This is my take on the story - to keep my own part of the harmony humming along. Like Elizabeth said in her blog a way back - keep my eyes on my own work. All I can do is my part.
In the Valiant Woman Conferences bk the author mentions that often is the ongoing example of unwavering virtue on the wife's part that wins the most lax man over in the end. He sees that modelled and eventually desires to emulate that in return. In the end though, even if he didn't, he would still be Jesus for us and our vocation would be to serve well imo. It's ultimately how our service is rendered and not how it is recieved that are responsible for.
Kim
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MicheleQ
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The deepest form of submission is to die for another. When a person dies for another, they have truly submitted themselves to that person. This is what Christ did for His Bride. He willingly laid down his life. It was indeed a form of submission.
Now, as I understand it, mutual submission of the spouses isn't meant to signify the submission of authority one to the other, but rather the total gift of self on the part of each of the spouses.
"Through their mutual, self-giving love, spouses actually participate in each other's sanctification. They become a channel through which Christ confers grace to live the Christian life. Saint Paul writes, 'Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word' (Eph. 5:25-26). This speaks of total self-giving, as Christ gave Himself for us. The submission of wives to husbands in the same passage is not an issue of equality or a designation of value, but a response to that love. As the Bride of Christ, the Church-and thus all her members-are called to love Christ without holding anything back." Marriage in God's Plan - Discovering the Power of Marital Love - Catholics United for the Faith, Inc.
Husbands are to model Christ in loving their wives without holding anything back and wives are to reciprocate the same. Beyond that, and this is where we veer off from our Protestant brothers and sisters, husbands and wives are to hold one another accountable to this call.
Christ and His Bride are the model for this because they are already perfect. There is no concern for the Church holding Christ accountable to anything because He is perfect and so is the Church in her divinity. That is our model. Not the human aspects of disobedience and dissent that we see in the Church, but rather the perfect, indefectible Bride of Christ.
A very good article to read explaining more of this is The Authority of Women by Monica Migliorino Miller
I hope this all made some sense. I need to go to sleep.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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