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anniemm
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
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To me, it is an issue of modesty and submission, I love the thought that women would choose to be veiled because of the "mystery of creation" that we carry. That reminds me of a talk I heard by Jason Evert where he suggested that women dress modestly and cover their "wombs" because they are so very sacred. That is sort of off topic, but I thought it was beautiful.
Anyway, I don't think this whole veiling thing is something that everyone should do, I certainly don't judge women who don't do it (because, obviously I'm not at this point!), but it seems like an extra devotion that one could choose. Our Church is rich with devotions. There are things we are required to do, but there are also things that we feel called to immerse ourselves in also. This is just one of those things, in my opinion. I think that's one of the beauties of our faith.
I can see how it would be hard to do with small children, and that is one of my concerns. But, I'll do the best I can to start off with and see what happens.
This also reminds me of the modesty threads (I read those before I joined), and the choice that sevearal women and families have made to dress modestly and in skirts/dresses. It's a choice, it's a tangible reminder. The Church obviously encourages tangible reminders because look at the Sacraments, and look at church decor. It's beautiful. We are very blessed. 
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Sarah
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I also go to an FSSP (Fraterniy of St. Peter) "parish." About 90% veil their heads there. Even in our super conservative diocese I would say about none veil their heads in the Novus Ordo (English Mass) parishes.
An FSSP priest once told me NOT to veil if you are the only one at a New Order Mass because you could come across too pious and divisive, since it can carry heavy emotion with it. I'm not sure I agree with him. It was his opinion and I'm throwing it out for food for thought.
I veil out of humility and out of reverence for my feminity. But, its also socially acceptable at our church. So this is easy to say. I'm not in a liberal situation. If it meant serious grief issues for my husband's job, then I a not sure I would do it, since it is not sinful to go without.
I believe that things that are sacred are veiled, but that is also why I wear a skirt to Mass. I look at that as a veiling of my body as well.
You can veil your heart (as someone mentioned), and offer the suffering of not being able to veil your head, if you choose not to do it.
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ALmom
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I had a friend ask me about veiling at our parish (I do not happen to) but have relatives and friends that do - none of whom have ever seemed to judge me. Anyways the friend was visiting from out of state and their parish was FFSP. She didn't want to cause division or draw attention or create a feeling of discomfort in those at our Novos Ordo parish. I'd seen a few women veil. We had plenty of homilies about not judging by appearances and I naively assumed no one would care one way or another. Evidently this poor mother was treated very badly when she went to receive communion because of her veil (not by the priest). She mentioned it afterwards as she was concerned about making things difficult for us in the parish (we were already considered odd since we taught NFP and homeschool so this didn't change anything and I wouldn't have cared if it did )- if she felt called to wear the veil, then how dare anyone be insulted when our parish is full of shorts, mini skirts so mini and bellies hanging out, tight pants on women and pants falling off the young men and plenty of other things that could be argued to be outright inappropriate and immodest. A veil is neither immodest or flashy, it doesn't get in anyone else's way. No reasonable person could possibly find anything disturbing or wrong with it, imo. I was literally stunned.
Janet
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anniemm
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Janet
Thank you for saying that. I think you make an excellent point...I don't think we will be in our current situation much longer, and hopefully we'll be moving (literally, out of state) soon to a different parish (in a rural area with mostly older people) where it wouldn't draw attention to my husband (who again, supports me in my decision). Anyway, I agree that it's insane that people can wear all sorts of trash to mass and not be consitered out of line, but wearing a veil might be "offensive" to someone. lol Where we are currently, I know the priests would hate it. But they are the change-mass-parts-give-heritical-homilies-there's-no-such-th ing-as-mortal-sin types.
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teachingmom
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Hi Andrea,
I thought I'd throw this out for what it's worth. I was a parish youth minister/DRE for 8 years. I worked in a rather liberal parish, compared to other parishes in this diocese. I used to laughingly call myself the "closet conservative" on staff. I found that it was better to keep a low profile regarding my orthodoxy. I was given free reign with regard to how I ran the youth program and what I taught, so I felt like I was making a difference in those kids' faith formation, compared to what many of them received at home, etc. But I made a point of not wearing my orthodoxy on my sleeve (or on my head, in this particular case  ) so as not to make waves with the more liberal adult members of the parish and thus retain the freedom to teach the kids the fullness of the faith.
If you or your husband think that wearing a veil might limit his ministry in any way, you might want to wait for the time being, as a sacrifice for the souls of those he serves. I know you said that your husband is behind you either way. I am just suggesting that you both might want to think and pray about how it might affect his ministry to the youth of your current parish. As someone else mentioned, going without a veil is in no way sinful, and it might be more appropriate in your particular situation than in a future situation that God might place you in.
May God give you His guidance as you discern what He is calling you to do. And may He bless your dh in his ministry at what sounds like a very difficult parish.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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anniemm
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Irene
Thank you for your thoughts. I guess the reason I'm not concerned about rocking the boat with the parish is that everyone, priests included, know that we are orthodox and totally disagree with the liberal slant that the priests try to pass off onto everyone (the priests are really the only ones I can honestly see being upset - and I'm ok with that). My husband has never been afraid to make waves, and it has only meant good things for his ministry. He stands up for himself when he's confronted, and has backing with truth. I admire that he stands up for truth.
I only mentioned the issue because it gave me a reason to feel uncomfortable, not necessarily because it would stop me. In this particular situation, the fruits of uninhibited orthodoxy has truly blessed the teenagers he works with, as well as the volunteers and parishoners.
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MicheleQ
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I wear a veil (on and off for the last 12 years) and I have only ever attended the Novus Ordo mass. Our parish is generally pretty conservative (becoming more so all the time actually) but I am one of the few (of maybe 3?) women who wear a veil. It's definitely a personal choice and I like what some wrote about it being a form of devotion. I would agree with that. DH and I are the RCIA directors so we are pretty visable. We have been in this parish for almost 5 years but I've only worn my veil here for the last 2 (I won't go into the why's as it's a long story and has more to do with my previous parish).
My girls wear them too but because they want to not because we ever required it. My dh is very supportive and it was his prompting (and the Holy Spirit) that made me decide to begin wearing it again. My solution for not having my little ones pull it off has been sewing a clip into the top so that it fastens to my hair - I did this for my girls too and it works very well.
I do have a beautiful old mantilla that was given to me many years ago but it's really starting to fall apart so I made a new veil recently (I think Jennifer linked to it earlier) that has been working very well. It's sort of a cowl type and a little heavier than my old one. I do wear hats sometimes but not often.
I also make a point to not be fanatical about covering my head. It's something I feel called to do but it's not a moral issue it's a private one and if I happen to forget my veil sometime (though I generally keep it in my purse) I don't stick a tissue or hankie on my head. 
I do think it's helps me to maintain a spirit of humility and be mindful of where I am. I don't think it's necessary, I'm just saying that it's helpful for me in that way.
I will tell you that wearing a veil is really helpful for those morning when you are having a bad hair day!
God bless,
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saintanneshs
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I wear a chapel veil at every mass I attend and have been for the last 6 months.
I do it because I felt God calling me to this at Adoration one day and I even asked our priest if I HAD to do it (what I felt God was calling me to do)...I didn't even know what it was called (a chapel veil)!! Father happily explained it to me and he said that it wasn't a sin to say no, but the trick to finding peace (and quieting that little voice inside that was nagging me about it for the last year) was to just accept the will of God and do it. So I did and it's been wonderful for all the reasons the ladies above have mentioned.
It was really REALLY hard at first because no one my age is wearing them and it wasn't really my idea. I'm not really the kind who likes to draw attention even though I've never had any problem going against popular trends. I guess I've always been more conservative overall when it comes to dress and style and such. Anyway, there are only about 3 ladies in the church that I know who do wear them and there are lots of kids I went to high school with who are still around from time to time, going to mass with their parents. When I hesitated about wearing the veil at first it was more about not wanting to be noticed (wanting to blend in). Now I don't hesitate at all because I think the act of wearing one came first for me and then the spiritual "interpretation" (for lack of a better word) followed.
These days Father has even teased me about making a "statement" and I must admit, I just love the smiles that the little old ladies throw my way... 
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teachingmom
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anniemm wrote:
I guess the reason I'm not concerned about rocking the boat with the parish is that everyone, priests included, know that we are orthodox and totally disagree with the liberal slant that the priests try to pass off onto everyone (the priests are really the only ones I can honestly see being upset - and I'm ok with that).
. . . .
In this particular situation, the fruits of uninhibited orthodoxy has truly blessed the teenagers he works with, as well as the volunteers and parishoners. |
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What an unusual situation -- with priests who are significantly out of sync with the spirituality of so many members of the parish. It sounds like your dh is a fantastic youth minister!
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anniemm
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Kristine
That is really encouraging. I hadn't thought about the fact that if I truly felt God calling me to do it, then...maybe I have a responsiblity to do it. That really gives me another good perspective. Thank you.
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MicheleQ
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Reading and answering a thread backwards is a strange habit I have. . .
Philothea wrote:
My brother-in-law, who is in Rome studying for the priesthood, told me the "true" history behind the veil -- traditionally, only three things were covered during the Mass -- the tabernacle, the chalice, and the women. The reason those three things were covered was that they all contained the mystery of life and God's creative power.
Veiling was a sign of great importance and reverence -- not of submission. |
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I wanted to comment on this because I heard Dr. Alice von Hildebrand say something similar in a talk several years ago. FWIW, I don't have a problem with the submission point but in the Church we veil what is holy. Feminists would have us believe that the veil is a sign of a woman being downtrodden but really the opposite is true. It is a sign of the dignity of a woman and the high regard the Church has for her.
In my opinion the removing of the veil for women was not a step up, it was a step down. Another lie of feminism if you will.
God bless,
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Nina Murphy
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As I wrote above, I don't veil, but I love the tradition and think it is a reverent practice.
But this is absolutely beautiful and worth meditating on, Michele. Thank you for reminding us--the Church VEILS (covers) what is holy...another reason why modesty is so important. "Covering" the body...because it is so precious, and should be a "secret"... a mystery to others.
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~~Nina
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Oct 13 2006 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
| But this is absolutely beautiful and worth meditating on, Michele. Thank you for reminding us--the Church VEILS (covers) what is holy...another reason why modesty is so important. "Covering" the body...because it is so precious, and should be a "secret"... a mystery to others. |
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Nina,
If you think that's beautiful you should read this article Women as Guardians of Purity by Alice von Hildebrand.
Here's an excerpt:
Quote:
A clue is given us by the architecture of the female body that differs from her male counterpart in some meaningful ways. First of all; her intimate organs are hidden from sight: they are inside her body. What is hidden usually refers to something deep and mysterious: we hide secrets; we hide what is personal and intimate.
Moreover, and this is deeply meaningful, these organs are covered by a veil called the hymen. The symbolism of the veil is obvious: it always refers to something marked by sacredness. When Moses came down from Mount Sinai after having spoken with God, he covered his face. When Christ is present in the tabernacle, the latter is covered by a veil.
The veil symbolizes sacredness. The fact that the woman's intimate organs are veiled gives us a clear message: they belong to God in a special way. Knowing from all eternity that his son was to be incarnated in the womb of a virgin, it was "proper and just" that the latter should have an exterior sign of its sacredness.
The hymen does not serve a practical purpose. But it has a deep symbolic meaning. All women, having the privilege of sharing the sex of the Queen of Heaven, partake of this same privilege. In his treatise on virginity, St. Augustine remarks that even when a little girl is the product of sin, be it incest, rape or adultery, she partakes of the same privilege. |
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God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Do you wear a chapel veil at church?
