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JennGM
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Good points, Bridget and MaryM about continuing the mothering even without babies. My mother is one of the young grandmothers...58. She started at 22 and ended at 35 with her child-bearing. My mother has 7 children, and the mothering has not stopped, even though the youngest will be married this October. She calls or we call her everyday just to chat, check in, and she is always available to help. She looks forward to visiting with each family; that's a huge highlight to visit with her kids. She's a great grandmother...sharing her experience, advice and time with the 14 grandchildren. Plus she is now mothering HER mother, so she's busy!!
I don't think there's a sense of loss of the baby days. She helps me and my 4 sisters with our babies...even at times staying up with my son who was suffering from reflux and just holding him for hours in the wee morning so I could sleep. It's a different role, but one that she's adjusted to well. I admire my mother tremendously, can you tell?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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Elizabeth
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Aha! Jenn often talks about her mother in very happy terms. And Julie wrote a beautiful tribute to her mother on her blog yesterday. Here's a theory: women with great role models for this next stage already have a great idea where they are going.They're comfortable because they can see (and touch) a very good thing. Those of us who aren't so blessed are struggling a bit-- which is why I'm so desperately looking for a book that will help me see it all a little more clearly. Remember, it's been great books that have steppend in for poor parents all my life. Here's where it gets kind of cool: Julie's mother has written books! Check this out Karen O'Connor's Books
Maybe those of us who need a role model for the next stage can share Julie's. Now if we could just get Bridget's mom and Jenn's mom to join the conversation....
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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Jane said something very beautiful earlier in this thread. It really hit home for me.
Jane wrote:
| There is a great danger in looking back with nostalgia or looking forward with impatience: in both cases you lose the now, which will never come back, and the now is very precious. |
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I am an impatient person and have a very hard time not missing the current moment in the rush to prepare for the next stage. It's probably one of my biggest vices. My experience with childbearing has given me experience which is shaping how I view this discussion. I lost my ability to have any more children with the miscarriage of my last child. The child did not miscarry naturally and I needed to have surgery. The surgery did not go well and I began bleeding profusely. I needed a massive blood transfusion and the only way they could stop the bleeding was to remove my uterus. I was unconscious for the decision, but it was probably the right decision. After that my childbearing time was obviously over. I found myself sobbing at unexpected moments for months after the surgery. But during the sobbing I was scouring the bible and the catechism for God's answers to my pain. In my search I found peace. I realized God's love. I realized that he had a specific plan for my life. It's obviously different from most of my peers, but it is the plan that allows for God's will to be done in my life. I don't know the fullness of what the plan is yet, but I found peace in knowing that it was there waiting for the time to be revealed. God has plans for each of us. We don't know what they are. There is a saying about God closing one door and opening another door. God did close the door on any more natural children for me. There was always the possiblity of the door being open for adoption, but through serious prayer my dh and I believe that this is not the door God wants us to walk through at this time. We have an inkling of where he might want us to go in the future, but for the time being (that "moment" Jane talked about) our job is to educate our children the best we can. We just need to keep our eyes and hearts open for the door that God is beckoning us from for the future. I think we are all called to watch for that future door in the midst of our mothering moment. I believe that this involves following where our hearts and souls and interests lead us. We are so good at recognizing the value of letting our children's interests guide their learning and preparation for the future. We need let our interests prepare us for our own future.
Natalia wrote:
We are called to build the kingdom of God on earth and I feel that there is so much to be learned. I want to engage the world and its society and come out with some understanding.
I want to read philosophy, theology, sociology, modern literature, classic literature. I want to read JP II's encyclicals and learn a vision of man and the forces that move him. |
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I think that these yearnings Natalia expresses are a calling from God to begin preparing for the door he's planning to open in the future. Go ahead and prepare by following your interests in whatever time your circumstances allow. I think it's very important to remember that exercising our intellect is just as important to our ability to function on this earth as exercising physically. When we reach a plateau in physical exercise we need to move on to a new challenge. If we've reached a plateau in exercising the intellect it's perfectly acceptable to move on to a new challenge. Just keep the first things first. For the MOMENT our duty as mothers must come first and our intellectual challenges will fit into some small spaces and might move pretty slowly.
Natalia wrote:
| There is almost a sense of urgency about it. Maybe because I realize my mortality and the limitations of my body. |
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I think it's natural to feel that urgency to "get it all done and done perfectly". We want to raise our children to be saints before they are 18 and head out into the world. Probably not going to happen. I know I, like Natalia, want to understand everything there is to understand about theology and philosophy and literature. I want to be completely prepared for anything this life throws me and I don't want to make any mistakes. I'd like to share a prayer by Oscar Romero that calms my tendency to feel like everything is on my shoulders and it all has to be accomplished now.
The Prayer of Oscar Romero
It helps, now and then, to step back and take a long view.
The kingdom is not only beyond our efforts,
it is even beyond our vision.
We accomplish in our lifetime only a tiny fraction
of the magnificent enterprise that is God's work.
Nothing we do is complete, which is a way of saying
that the kingdom always lies beyond us.
No statement says all that could be said.
No prayer fully expresses our faith.
No confession brings perfection.
No pastoral visit brings wholeness.
No program accomplishes the church's mission.
No set of goals and objectives includes everything.
This is what we are about.
We plant the seeds that one day will grow.
We water seeds already planted,
knowing that they hold future promise.
We lay foundations that will need further development.
We provide yeast that produces far beyond our capabilities.
We cannot do everything, and there is a sense of liberation
in realizing that. This enables us to do something,
and to do it very well. It may be incomplete,
but it is a beginning, a step along the way,
an opportunity for the Lord's grace to enter and do the rest.
We may never see the end results, but that is the difference
between the master builder and the worker.
We are workers, not master builders; ministers, not messiahs.
We are prophets of a future not our own.
Amen.
God Bless,
Richelle
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juliecinci
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Oh I love this prayer! Thank you for sharing it. It so beautifully expresses how I feel about my life, about LIFE.
Lovely words in this thread about mothering, grandmothering, exercising intellect, enriching our marriages, becoming participants in kingdom living.
We are blessed to live in a time when our years are long and mostly healthy. It's good to remember to live in the moment and to be generous with it in whatever ways we can... secure that those tiny ripples will offer peace and wholeness and help to those in our paths.
This has always been difficult for me because I put so much emphasis on "significance" and mattering. Oscar Romero's prayer needs to be a daily reading for me.
Thank you, Richelle.
Julie
P.S. And thanks Elizabeth for honoring my mom. For those who don't know much about her, she lost her marriage to an affair when I was in high school and then lost her faith too. She found the Lord again twenty years ago and is a vibrant testimony of what God can do with a life.
I wrote about her here if you are interested.
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Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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guitarnan
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I am endlessly amazed at the insight and eloquence of all of you! There just has to be hope for a bright future, in spite of the sad things we see on the news, because of all of you, and the love and faith you are passing on to your children.
No book I could buy today could be any more thought-provoking or insightful than the words you've all shared on this thread. I'm truly blessed to know you.
Julie and Richelle, thanks for your special insights. They mean a lot to me.
God bless you all!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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JennGM
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juliecinci wrote:
| P.S. And thanks Elizabeth for honoring my mom. For those who don't know much about her, she lost her marriage to an affair when I was in high school and then lost her faith too. She found the Lord again twenty years ago and is a vibrant testimony of what God can do with a life. |
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Wow, Julie, what a coincidence! My parents got divorced when I was in high school, due to an affair my father had. I guess that's where the coincidence ends, because my mom kept the faith, and kept the kids going strong (I was 16, youngest 1). Dad didn't -- he left the Church, remarried outside of the faith. Mom persevered in prayer and my dad returned to the faith and the marriage 4 1/2 years later.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Here's a theory: women with great role models for this next stage already have a great idea where they are going.They're comfortable because they can see (and touch) a very good thing. Those of us who aren't so blessed are struggling a bit-- which is why I'm so desperately looking for a book that will help me see it all a little more clearly. Remember, it's been great books that have steppend in for poor parents all my life. |
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I've been thinking about this Elizabeth, and I think once you found the answers on how to be a good mother, that was all you needed for the missing piece of the puzzle. Everything else will fall into place.
But I do have a book or two that might cover this subject...gotta scour my shelves. I'm afraid I might have boxed one or two of these, since they weren't what I needed right then 
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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jenngm67 wrote:
| Mom persevered in prayer and my dad returned to the faith and the marriage 4 1/2 years later. |
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I don't think I was clear here...my dad came back to my mother 4 1/2 years later. They remarried in the State's eyes, and renewed their marriage vows in the eyes of God. And still are together after 12 years of being reunited...
PS That's what happens when you're fighting with your toddler for the rights to the computer mouse!
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Leonie
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Wow, lots of good ideas to ponder.
Like Elizabeth, I do not have real life role model of this stage and future stages in life. Like Elizabeth, I turn to books to help me formulate a picture of this vocation. For me, this is often fiction.
Leonie in Sydney
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BrendaPeter
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Wow - I'm truly overwhelmed by this thread. It is incredible to read all the different perspectives and to try to get a feel for where everyone is coming from. As someone suggested, maybe we are writing the book.
This is another perspective, but I'd like to add that we are living in such incredibly precarious times. None of us have any idea what the future holds. There are so many people in our world who are so incredibly lukewarm about their faith that is is difficult to comprehend. Sin is absolutely rampant. Sensible people have no idea what is right or wrong any more. It is a time for saints. That's where we come in! What does the world need now more than anything? LOVE!!!! Unselfish, unconditional love! After all these years nurturing little ones, that's our forte! After reading all of your e-mails, I know it's your forte!
Even though I am busier than ever (6 kids, almost 11 down to 5 mos.), God keeps sending struggling people into my life. I tend to have a more active & very social personality. These days I'm learning how many people just need to simply hear the Gospel message, especially when it comes to hope. It is a constant struggle for me to submit to my primary vocation. I adore being home with & educating my children, but I also feel so pulled because of the great needs of the world. Here are a few examples:
- Just recently our state legislature voted on civil unions. I had to really discern how much I could do in regard to that - write letters, e-mail, phone calls, go to the Capitol, etc.?
- Both my parents and my husbands parents are away from the faith. Besides praying for them, they all love to hear from us and know that we care for them so we need to make any effort to stay in touch.
- We go regularly to a very orthodox friary which has a wonderful (mostly) homeschooling community. Many people in our area still don't know about the friary and it has practically become an apostolate providing people with directions & information so that they can come too.
- We occasionally have our priest over to dinner. I would like to ask him if he would consider stressing the sacrament of confession in our parish, as he is praying for spiritual renewal and I think confession may be a big part of it.
- There are several people in our parish who are very spiritually hungry but are not being fed. I try to keep some cassettes & books on hand to give out to them.
- We are all (whether we know it or not) trying to change our culture back into a truly Christian culture. What does that mean? For instance, why don't we invite children to wedding receptions any more? Shouldn't that change? How can we facilitate that? Boy, changing the culture sure is alot of work!
The list goes on & on! Is this what John Paul II meant when he said it is time for the laity to be involved in the Church?
When I read the lives of the saints, which are so very inspiring, I read how many of them literally had no time to rest as they were constantly busy doing Our Lord's work. St. Vincent de Paul said "I'll rest in Heaven." Our modern-day saints, Mother Theresa & John Paul II, literally burnt themselves out doing God's work. Please know that I'm not talking about "busyness" here in the way the world sees it. Obviously prayer is an integral part of this or we will truly burn ourselves out in a very negative way.
I guess my main point it that there is an overwhelming amount of work to be done. I appreciate how so many of you are taking the time to discover & discern what that work is. I also have loved reading exactly how you are going about doing it. It is time well-spent! Homeschooling our children all these years will play a big role in the discernment process.
Blessings to all of you! May Our Lord and Our Lady guide us as we discern how best to serve the Kingdom of God during our midlives,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Karen E.
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I've just finished reading every letter in this thread (yes, yes, I'm far behind again ....)  Such lovely, poignant and thoughtful letters from so many.
For me, there is one thing that stands out in my mind regarding my vocation to motherhood and my spiritual journey: I have never, ever been able to predict what God is going to do with me. He repeatedly surprises me -- no, stuns me -- with His plans for my life.
If you'd told me when I was 20 that I'd be a Christian by age 30, I'd have laughed. If you'd told me I'd be Catholic by age 35, I would have had you committed.
His plans for me aren't always clear. He often lets me walk in the dark for a time, blindly feeling my way along, asking what's next, and hearing only, "Wait. Watch. Listen. I'm here." Often, it's only in retrospect that I can see how He's made my very crooked ways straight. But He does make them straight. And, once He does, I can often share what He's done for me with others. And that, as Bridget and others pointed out, is also a vital part of His plan.
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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momtomany
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Thank you for this thread. Your words are truly inspiring.
I have struggled with the idea of no more babies for about 5 years now. I had nine children quite easily. Only now do I realize how blessed I was with that! Then we lost our 10th child, a little girl, at 13 weeks along. I was shocked at having a miscarriage. Suddenly I could empathize with other women having losses like that. About 7 months later we conceived again. Once I got past 13 weeks I started to relax. I went into labor 2 days before my due date. My water broke, my dh, who is a doctor, checked me. All was well, 3-4 cms dilated. I started to get ready for the trip to the hospital. Soon after that, his umbilical cord prolapsed. I had an emergency C-section, they resusitated him, but it was too late. He lived for nine days on a respirator. I never saw him open his eyes, I never heard his cry. I never saw him even move. My beautiful 10# baby Joseph that I never got to bring home.
Our bishop was most helpful during this time. He emphasized how Joseph could be our family saint, that with our gang we could use one! We have asked our little guy to intercede for us at times. And he's always come thru. I asked him every day for a year to plead with God to keep his big brother safe during his deployment in Iraq. Thanks to the goodness of God, Joseph and good St Anne, Tim is home safe!
Eight months after Joseph died, I became pregnant again. But this baby was lost to an early miscarriage.
I am having a very hard time dealing with ending my childbearing years this way in such sadness. I long for one more baby. It's not that I'm wondering what to do to fill the time. I'm very busy, and happily so. I just still ache for one more baby, a live, healthy one.
I do feel that our short time with Joseph was such a blessing. It changed me in so many ways. Only God knows His plans for me. But I wonder if I will ever stop that yearning for just one more baby. I wonder if I would have been okay with Joseph being the last if all had went well. I'd probably still have a twinge of sadness abaout whoever was the last one.
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Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
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Erica Sanchez
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Oh, Maryann, I am so sorry for your losses!
I wonder if when that 1st grandchild comes along, the yearning for 'just one more baby', the 'empty-nest' anticipations, and the 'what will I do with my life' questions will be calmed??? It seems that is the next natural phase of our lives. Some moms on this list have grandchildren already (I think?). Maybe they can offer some advice.
A friend just adopted a baby - a beautiful part of the story is the foster parents, an older couple who cares for two high-needs babies at a time. I like to think that when my children are older or even gone from the home, that I could continue to 'mother' in this way, if that is what God has planned for our family.
It seems common in the Protestant churches to have older, wiser mothers mentor to the young moms. I don't think our church really does that, but there is a great need. There seems to be so many young (very young!) mothers today! This might be another way to continue our 'mothering'.
Just some thoughts....the empty nest seems far, far away at the moment........
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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tovlo4801
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
It seems common in the Protestant churches to have older, wiser mothers mentor to the young moms. I don't think our church really does that, but there is a great need. There seems to be so many young (very young!) mothers today! This might be another way to continue our 'mothering'.
Just some thoughts....the empty nest seems far, far away at the moment........ |
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Erica,
What a perfect suggestion! I have a friend who moved into the area several years ago and shortly after went through RCIA and converted to Catholicism. She does not have a wonderful relationship with her own mother and she was desperately seeking a program like what you mention. She came from a Protestant background and maybe that is where she came up with the desire. I've tried to steer her toward volunteer opportunities within our church where the "wiser" woman of our parish seem to congregate and I've introduced her to my own mom. But I never fully understood what she was looking for until you brought this idea into the discussion. I agree that this is a beautiful and much needed way to continue to mother!! I don't think it needs to be restricted to the very young mothers either. My friend is in her mid-thirties. I'm in that same age range and even though I have a wonderful relationship with my own mother, I'd appreciate a "wise" mother figure within the church. My mother and I are both converts. In fact, I think my own mother would appreciate an older, wiser guide within the church! When I went through the RCIA process there were two older, very faithful Catholic women from our church attending. They were a large part of why I decided to go through with converting. They came to the class to learn more about their own faith and to provide support to those of us thinking of joining. I still look to these two women as examples of how to live the Catholic life. There are so many unexpected opportunities for mothering within our Church aren't there?!?
God Bless,
Richelle
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Leonie
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Mary Ann,
I sympathize. My last few pregnancies have ended in miscarriage and blood clots and hospitalisations, so I know the sadness you feel - that our childrearing days look like ending with, well, sadness...
Leonie in Sydney
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Elizabeth
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Leonie wrote:
Mary Ann,
I sympathize. My last few pregnancies have ended in miscarriage and blood clots and hospitalisations, so I know the sadness you feel - that our childrearing days look like ending with, well, sadness...
Leonie in Sydney |
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And I'm trying to figure that one out too...women like us have really embraced the idea of openness. Much more than women who have two and call it quits with nary a second thought, women who are open to life, even if they don't have huge families, are acutely aware of the loss that comes when childbearing ends. And when those days end with a real, sad, sudden loss instead of the gradual dawning that it's over, well then that seems a very heavy cross. All those delivery room joys and it ends in the sterile surgical suite with a doctor who calls your preborn baby the "remnants of conception." I mean it sort of seems like an even heavier cross for having loved the life the way we did...and the real irony is that people tell you not to feel so bad--at least you have a bunch at home. Well, sure, that's why I know so acutely what I've lost.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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Mary Ann,
I too feel for you. We have seven live children and have lost three through miscarriage and tubal pregnancy. My sixth child spent months in the hospital and came very close to death but thankfully, is with us at home now. I admire the Culture of Life witness of all of you; I believe that your lives and sharing in the Body of Christ, the Church, probably helped me move from a Protestant who didn't think she could even handle one child, 20 years ago, to a Catholic who dared to try having ten.
My husband and I are in the position where we think we should not have any more children, because the disease our sixth and seventh child was born with is due to an acquired placental incompatibility that is basically incurable, and the mortality rate for the infants is very high. I would be grateful for prayers on this though, since both my husband and I would absolutely LOVE to have more children.
Also, I'm 42, so there's no guarantee I could have more.
We have talked of adopting since we have a lot of special needs experience, but God will have to take charge of that possibility.
I'm not such a planner as some of you, so I only have the dimmest of visions of what my future will look like. What I picture is being one of those old ladies that say daily Rosaries and attend daily Mass. I have a desire to be a lay Carmelite, but the time the preparation would take out of my life right now would be too much. When my kids are gone though, I see that as being my season for prayer and intercession.
I also hope to be a homeschool grandmother, both for my own children and possibly in the wider Titus 2 sense. It seems that so many homeschoolers basically drop out of the community when their children are grown, and we do not get to benefit from their wisdom. So I think there is a gap there.
I have really loved reading this thread. It is such a witness for me.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Elizabeth
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WJFR wrote:
I also hope to be a homeschool grandmother, both for my own children and possibly in the wider Titus 2 sense. It seems that so many homeschoolers basically drop out of the community when their children are grown, and we do not get to benefit from their wisdom. So I think there is a gap there.
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Where DO they go?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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momtomany
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Elizabeth wrote:
And I'm trying to figure that one out too...women like us have really embraced the idea of openness. Much more than women who have two and call it quits with nary a second thought, women who are open to life, even if they don't have huge families, are acutely aware of the loss that comes when childbearing ends. And when those days end with a real, sad, sudden loss instead of the gradual dawning that it's over, well then that seems a very heavy cross.........I mean it sort of seems like an even heavier cross for having loved the life the way we did...and the real irony is that people tell you not to feel so bad--at least you have a bunch at home. Well, sure, that's why I know so acutely what I've lost. |
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Elizabeth, you are so right. I do admit to having a hard time with women who want their two, close together, "so that they can be done with that messy childbearing and baby stage" right away.  I don't think that they know what they are missing and it is sad.
I've been asked if I regretted having Joseph, since we only had him for nine days and his death broke my heart. If we hadn't been open to one more, it wouldn't have happened. But his short life was a great gift to our entire family. One of his gifts was our daily family rosary time. Another was a big wake up call to our oldest daughter, who has always been challenging, to say the least. I have met many wonderful people since his death, who have shared their stories of faith and loss with me. We also got more involved with the Passionist priests in our area, since their message of uniting your suffering with Christ's seemed to ring so true for my husband and I.
Being open to life is painful. If I never have another baby, that will be sad. If I am blessed with another pregnancy, I will be stressed about the outcome. But I have to believe that this is God's way of making me grow. No matter which way it goes. But not being open to life would be to refuse God's gift, whatever it is.
__________________
Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 16 2005 at 9:45am | IP Logged
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Willa,
Your thoughts on being a homeschooling grandmother are very interesting to me, because I have been giving a lot of thought to my future after the children are off at college (long time away, younger child is 7!). One thing I've thought of is teaching classes for homeschool co-ops, especially the more challenging subjects (but not geometry!). That would keep me involved with young people and help pay for my children's education at the same time. I'm really working to discern what I'm meant to do in the near and distant future. I also think you're right when you say that homeschooling families need a lot of support from the community; it's really important that parents who choose to homeschool don't end up feeling like "lone rangers", especially if they live in remote areas.
Think of it...ten years from now, we could all be out there, praying for and helping out other families...it's really inspiring!
I love this thread!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : St. Anne's Tearoom: Growing in Wisdom over 40
Topic: Midlife
