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amyable
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Thank you so much for all the wonderful ideas ladies! Don't stop if you have more!
I'm going to tackle dh when he comes home so he can't do the shopping.  His idea of a "great shop" is getting as much on sale as possible...my new idea of a great shop is how much natural and organic I can find at our local store while I learn about all the other options! 
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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amyable
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Hey, I just thought of another question after perusing some of the links. We have a farmers market very close by every Friday from April (?) to October. In general, do you know if the produce at farmers markets is organic or at least more natural than stuff I would find in the stores? I'm sure it is fresher...it's a start, if nothing else.
Now to carve out the time to go shopping to at least 2 different stores, start vision therapy, a hs-ing co-op, not to mention homeschooling...  I think creating our own cleansers together is going to count as "science." 
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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CathinCoffeland
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Amy ...definetly hit the farmers market , ours is wonderful. We even can get grass fed meats. Not all the farmers are certified organic but most use no sprays.
To get certified is a big process if you are just a backyard type grower. Most will tell you what they use -if not just shop elsewhere. our kids love to go , there is frequently music and fresh potato donuts.
make it a fieldtrip 
I love knowing just where my food is coming from and the people who grow it. Ive made some wonderful connection with our community and found out where a lot of the good place to shop are (ie what stores sell your local stuff?)
Our town also has a winter farmers market at the fair grounds- ask the farmers-they will let you know.
Maggie
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stefoodie
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yes, ask the farmers! a lot of them have been using organic methods forever, but to get certified is just too expensive for them.
caveat: i was subscribed to a CSA back when we were in PA and was shocked to find out from a friend that they supplemented the products they deliver to us with veggies from the neighboring farm (a conventional one), when their own harvest was running low. i had assumed they grew everything they sold, and i was wrong.
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stef
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cvbmom
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Elizabeth wrote:
Basic antiseptic spray
1 � cups warm water
1 teaspoon castile soap
� cup white vinegar
Few drops (5-10) tea tree oil or lavender oil
Basic soft scrubber formula (tubs, showers, toilet bowls, bathroom countertops if necessary)
� cup baking soda
Enough castile soap or laundry detergent to make a frosting-like consistency
5-10 drops lavender, peppermint or tea tree oil (optional)
Basic window and glass cleaner
1 � cups warm water
� cup vinegar
� cup rubbing alcohol
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I don't know if it came out this way for everyone, but all the question marks are confusing for me in the "recipes". Elizabeth, or anyone else, can you fill in the blanks here? Thanks! Sorry for any trouble it causes  I need big time hand holding on this one, and am not comfortable just winging it.
God bless,
Christine
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Sarah
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Elizabeth wrote:
Basic Floor Cleaner
1/8 cup castile soap or TJs laundry detergent
1/2 cup white vinegar
1 gallon warm water
Few drops (5-10) tea tree oil or lavender oil
Use Murphy’s oil soap on the hardwood.
Basic antiseptic spray
1 ½ cups warm water
1 teaspoon castile soap
½ cup white vinegar
Few drops (5-10) tea tree oil or lavender oil
Basic soft scrubber formula (tubs, showers, toilet bowls, bathroom countertops if necessary)
½ cup baking soda
Enough castile soap or laundry detergent to make a frosting-like consistency
5-10 drops lavender, peppermint or tea tree oil (optional)
Basic window and glass cleaner
1 ½ cups warm water
½ cup vinegar
¼ cup rubbing alcohol
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Do you still see all the ? marks? That is so weird.
I'm really going to look into making some of these also. My weekend project!
Elizabeth also mentioned hand soap. Do you supposed that new foaming hand pump soap by DIAL is bad for you? The foam is very non-messy. I wonder if its toxic in some way. Anymore thoughts on hand soaps for every day washing with the kids? What kind do you use?
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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Sarah
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Christine,
I'm looking more at your post. Its all there, just take out every ï¿. The numbers are there.
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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BrendaPeter
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Does anyone know of any links where I can find a study on the benefits of eating organic/natural foods? Or can anyone recommend a scholarly book on the topic. Everything I've read seems quite "anecdotal". That doesn't do a thing to convince my husband who is a physician! He wants not only studies, but well-done studies. Also, my close friend who is a vet refutes all the arguments. She has told me that in vet school, she was taught that the cow hormones in milk do not affect the milk or whomever consumes the milk. Also, is it true that the hormones/antibiotics in meat are in the fat only? Another thing my vet friend tells me is that animals are taken off hormones & antibiotics in enough time to rid them from their systems. Is any of this true?
How do you know who to believe? For instance, a couple of books that I've read on a more natural lifestyle stated that heating things in plastic in the microwave is dangerous. After doing a search on the internet, I learned that this is an "urban legend"!
Thanks for the help!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Dawn
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I've been itching to get to this thread and I know I won't have enough time right now to say all the things I want, but first let me recommend a book I have found enormously helpful re organic living: The Green Kitchen Handbook. It's by Annie Berthold-Bond and Mothers and Others for a Livable Planet. I believe this non profit organization has since dissolved but it was wonderful while it was in existance. I used to get The Green Guide - their newsletter. That site makes me think it is still in existance. Really good at balancing advice and information and explaining all the studies behind it all.
I have a magnet on my fridge from Wild Oats that lists the 12 most important fruits and vegetables to buy organic:
apples
bell peppers
celery
cherries
grapes (imported)
nectarines
peaches
pears
potatoes
red raspberries
spinach
strawberries
(Organic baby food, dairy and eggs are also noted as good choices on the list)
We shop at Wild Oats about once a month and Shaws the rest. Shaws has a Wild Harvest department which is pretty extensive and they also sell a lot of natural meats and dairy. For produce I go to WO and our local farm which uses IPM (integrated pest management) to grow fruits and veggies. For years we belonged to a CSA and enjoyed organic produce in bulk - but we haven't done it the last 2 years. It was a lot of produce to keep up with!
We use all environentally safe cleaners - Ecover, Seventh Generation etc. - as well as the toiletries, tp etc. I'd like to start using homemade cleaners because this is a huge expense.
This is a wonderful thread. It has been on my mind for years to find ways to make organic living more economic and efficient. I had a little handbook I made up for myself at one time. I'll have to dig it up.
Looking forward to hearing more and keeping up with the thread now that I've joined in!
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Dawn, mum to 3 boys 
By Sun and Candlelight
The Nature Corner
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Dawn
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BrendaPeter wrote:
How do you know who to believe? For instance, a couple of books that I've read on a more natural lifestyle stated that heating things in plastic in the microwave is dangerous. After doing a search on the internet, I learned that this is an "urban legend"!
Thanks for the help! |
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Brenda, there's some information on that here. I know there are some plastics that are somewhat safer than others to heat. I can't find it in my book right now, but I'll keep looking.
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Dawn, mum to 3 boys
By Sun and Candlelight
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Dawn
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BrendaPeter wrote:
| Also, my close friend who is a vet refutes all the arguments. She has told me that in vet school, she was taught that the cow hormones in milk do not affect the milk or whomever consumes the milk. Also, is it true that the hormones/antibiotics in meat are in the fat only? Another thing my vet friend tells me is that animals are taken off hormones & antibiotics in enough time to rid them from their systems. Is any of this true? |
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I'm not sure about how true it all is, but I found this online article. I can't vouch for the website - I only found this tonight, but it does seem to link the hormones with early development and later, breast cancer.
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BrendaPeter
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Hi Dawn,
Thanks for the info. I was able to get the book from the library & sign up for the newsletter.
btw - what is CSA?
Thx!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Cici
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I justed wanted to chime in with a heartfelt thanks to you all: for the book recommendations and the recipes to the coop suggestions, etc. 
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Christine - mom to
My Sewing Blog
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folklaur
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"Community Supported Agriculture"
HTH,
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Karen T
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BrendaPeter wrote:
Also, my close friend who is a vet refutes all the arguments. She has told me that in vet school, she was taught that the cow hormones in milk do not affect the milk or whomever consumes the milk. Also, is it true that the hormones/antibiotics in meat are in the fat only? Another thing my vet friend tells me is that animals are taken off hormones & antibiotics in enough time to rid them from their systems. Is any of this true?
How do you know who to believe? For instance, a couple of books that I've read on a more natural lifestyle stated that heating things in plastic in the microwave is dangerous. After doing a search on the internet, I learned that this is an "urban legend"!
Thanks for the help! |
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I am a vet, too, and I prefer organic foods whenever possible, and also use only organic lawn stuff, etc. Your friend is partially correct in that toxins are more likely to build up in the fat of an animal, since many are stored there, but that doesn't mean they aren't present in other tissues as well. And who's ever bought a steak or even hamburger that doesn't have fat in it? It would be too tough to eat if there were no "marbling." As for the farmers taking them off antibiotics and hormones ahead of time, there are federal guidelines for all drugs and additives for how long they have to be off; however, that does not mean there are NO residues in the meat, just that they meet "federal acceptable levels". Kind of like the acceptable levels of lead in the environment or how much pollution a car is allowed to give off - I personally would prefer zero, wouldn't you?
One study I can think of that is veterinary related and is not about organic food, but does address chemicals and disease is that there is a proven link in Scottie dogs between lawn chemicals and bladder cancer. This study was done several years ago and has been scrutinized carefully. Now, Scotties tend to have higher rates of this particular cancer than other dogs so this is why the study was done on them and they probably also have some sort of genetic susceptibility that is "turned on " by the chemicals. But who is to say our children don't have a similar gene? If your dh wants more info on that I can find the reference and send it.
As for the microwave and plastics, I have seen some warnings from pretty reliable sources (not just dire emails) not to use plastics unless they are specifically rated as safe. Glass or stoneware is fine, and the hard plastics like microwave dishware, but many people use containers that were never meant to be reheated, and those are more likely to give off toxins.
One more thing on the antibiotic/animal issue - lots of people do want to blame farmers for antibiotic resistance, citing the use of antibiotics in feeds, etc. I believe that the most recent studies have shown the major cause of resistance is the overwhelming use of antibiotics for things like viral respiratory illnesses (kid has a fever, gets antibiotics without a positive strep test, etc.) AND the tendency of many of us (me included) not to finish a course after we're feeling better - this is a prime way to encourage resistant bacteria, since you've only killed off the weaker ones and the stronger ones are still around. Also, don't flush old antibiotics down the toilet; they've been found in deep-sea sharks, who ate smaller fish that picked it up from the water
Even so, I prefer my meat/dairy to be antibiotic and hormone free.
I am presently researching filters to remove fluoride from the tap water (only RO does it, none of the fridge or sink type filters do) b/c I have found out that the type of fluoride added to water is not even one that has had ANY safety studies done on it (the early studies used a different form, and this is a by-product of the phosphate fertilizer industry! Fluoride applied by topical gels and toothpaste are much more effective in preventing tooth decay, and water fluoridation has been linked with a number of problems including autoimmune thyroid disease (which I have and prompted me to research it)
fluoride alert
Well, off my soapbox now but hopefully I at least gave Brenda a few ideas.
Karen
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Dawn
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cactus mouse wrote:
"Community Supported Agriculture"
HTH, |
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Thanks Laura, I should have been more clear. Here's a website that has a lot of info. At one time I was convinced I wanted to get into some sort of farmer marketing (dh wasn't so convinced ) and read Sharing the Harvest. It's actually a great read whether you want to open a market or not (and obviously we didn't! ).
Fwiw, we looooved our CSA and I highly recommend them. You just have to be prepared to handle the produce or else you'll feel like you are wasting all those precious organic fruit and veggies! We had a single-size vegetable share (lots of greens before the summer produce kicks in) and a family fruit share which was AMAZING fruit and tons of it. We even got organic honey, herbs, gallons and gallons of cider ... One year we signed up for extended season and got 18 lbs of organic butternut squash as well as onions, apples, potatoes and other keepers. It was such a treat every week to show up and see what was "in season" this week. A great lesson for my boys too. When the peaches were gone, they were gone ...
Sorry I'm rambling! Love this subject as you can tell. 
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Dawn, mum to 3 boys
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The Nature Corner
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Natalia
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I wonder if this living naturally is more prevalent in the north than in the south. I don't hear as much here in LA and there are not big natural type of supermarkets unless you go to a big city like Dallas.
I am following this with interest. I aggree with Brenda. it is so difficult to know who to believe. Both sides can be so convincing.
Natalia
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BrendaPeter
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Karen T wrote:
As for the microwave and plastics, I have seen some warnings from pretty reliable sources (not just dire emails) not to use plastics unless they are specifically rated as safe. Glass or stoneware is fine, and the hard plastics like microwave dishware, but many people use containers that were never meant to be reheated, and those are more likely to give off toxins.
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Thanks Karen for the response. Do you have any information on the types of plastics? I reheat things in Rubbermaid containers for instance & I'm wondering if that's ok.
I just read an article on hormones in diary from a medical journal (I'd be happy to send it to you , if you're interested) that says what's very concerning is that modern dairy cows are usually pregnant so that there is an increased concentration of hormones in milk from the pregnancy itself. That being said, how can organic milk even be safe?
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Karen T
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BrendaPeter wrote:
Thanks Karen for the response. Do you have any information on the types of plastics? I reheat things in Rubbermaid containers for instance & I'm wondering if that's ok.
I just read an article on hormones in diary from a medical journal (I'd be happy to send it to you , if you're interested) that says what's very concerning is that modern dairy cows are usually pregnant so that there is an increased concentration of hormones in milk from the pregnancy itself. That being said, how can organic milk even be safe?
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here is a site from the FDA about the plastics
microwaveable plastic
Good point about the naturally occurring pregnancy hormones. I know there are some concerns along that route. Ideally, we'd all keep our own cows and not breed them back while giving milk Actually, we are planning to get dairy goats next year when we (hopefully) get our little farm and we'll keep enough so that they don't have to be pregnant all the time.
Since a lot of these things (hormones or toxins) are worst for infants, it makes sense to breastfeed as long as possible, and limit cow's milk products the first couple years.
Karen
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CathinCoffeland
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We had great experinces with CSA too. We did it for 3 yrs and unfortuatley had to use our tax money for cars the last 2- maybe next year.
Our csa was all organic and traded with other organic boxes to get more vartiey. We got a huge tote every week may through october.
Ask around at the farmers market. i second it though-BE PREPARED!. You will have to clean and prep your veggiesand fruits- little sanitized packs of plastic wrapped carrots it is not! One year they a had a huge windfall of tomatoes- I got four grocery sacks on just one day. One year it was a pepper glut. our last year it was melons-the neighborhood kids thought i was awesome! lol!
Maggie
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Going natural
