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StephanieA
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| Posted: Aug 23 2006 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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<<Home is where the heart is. It all begins there. And, still, we are all bombarded (our children more so) with society, cultural norms, peers, temptations of every kind. Do we hold our children accountable for all their actions and decisions? We should. >> [/QUOTE]
This is true. Home IS where the heart is. Homeschooling is not the ticket to heaven or to a carefree teen or post-teen experience. I have 6 homeschooled siblings and many younger, married former homeschooled friends that have had very differing homeschooling experiences. Some would never do it. Others swear by it. But I have found that their level of spiritual maturity has not a lot to do with whether they were homeschooled or not. Really, how many saints were totally homeschooled?
I use to worry why, since I thought I was doing all the "right" things, my boys weren't more like Dominic Savio. Why weren't they making out lists of spiritual importance? I figured out that my boys weren't given the graces that Dominic was given. God gives US what he wants to give us. It is up to us to cooperate with that grace. We can follow the examples of the saint's lives, but we aren't going to BE them.
I have a good friend who homeschools her children. Her oldest was the "perfect" homeschooling girl, now in college. She nearly prepared her own school schedule, attended homeschooling conferences,took care of the house, academically attended her younger siblings, and won top scholarship at college. She has had absolutely no problems with this child, only wonderful experiences. I can shamefacedly say that I had my times of jealous envy. My son is her daughter's age. This wasn't my experience with him in high school. He wasn't motivated after about age 16, but we maintained a good relationship. I continued to mother, but less so to school. That said, my son is socially a leader at college (in a good way), has "troubled" Catholic friends calling him for advice, professors recommending him for at-school jobs, etc. Her daughter seems totally lost at the college they attend. She is overwhelmed at the attitudes and the professors. I can't say my friend did a great job and I failed in high school to "make" my son motivated. I can't say she has failed to "socialize" her daughter to be able to relate to anyone not homeschooled.
My second son is much more motivated academically but finds meeting people a layer in Dante's Purgatory. I did none of this. I try to keep my oldest focused and organized at school, while encouraging my second NOT to be so focused on books as to not get daily exercise, develop good relationships, socialize, etc. I have encouraged him to get involved in intermurals and sports at college while my oldest needs no encouragement in this area. He needs to be reminded not to get too involved in extracurricular activities.
So much of this is personality. Because your oldest takes on the world doesn't mean you did a great job homeschooling. These are God's children, and they have been given the gifts God wanted them to have to do His will here on earth. We parents are there to facilitate. We have to take their personalities into consideration and not put them in situations that that particular child can't handle - whether this is school outside the home, on the internet, movies, friends, etc.
I homeschool because it does create less pressure and bad influences for my kids (as well as a host of other reasons: family togetherness, prayer life, etc.) I went through a time period where I didn't feel as if I was doing enough for the liturgical year.
I wondered how people like Maria Von Trapp did it. (I had her book on living the liturgical year and it constantly overwhelmed - so I got rid of it). But living the liturgical year isn't a guarantee either. Everyone of her kids left the Church, some starting their own churches. None of her grandkids are Catholics either (but their CDs are lovely). So living the liturgical year doesn't guarantee "success".
I think I believe more in prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit than I have ever in my life. God knows my kids. I just have to figure them out myself and try to set a good example. As Elizabeth said in a past post, we can be too anxious to compare....and I will add - to get a book and take advice :)
After a little advice is gathered, I think contemplation is needed - to know what YOUR child and family needs.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Aug 23 2006 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
I wouldn't allow my daughter to go to their house, regardless of whether they were affiliated witht he same group. Perhaps I'm naive, but I really do believe that we all have to base our actions on principle and not on peer pressure. If we let her go there, knowing that their daughter is a bad influence and that the mother is going to go against our wishes, than we model for our children that we will behave a certain way for the sake of being accepted or not making waves in the group. So, then we can't be surprised when the child just follows along.
Yes, it will definitely result in our being more lonely in terms of "friends." And so will our children. But are those people truly friends? Do friends enable your daughter to disobey you? Will friends stand with you before God when you have to account why you made certain decisions? If they are truly Godly friends, then they will aid you and not teach your daughter how to defy the authority God gave you.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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KathrynTherese
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| Posted: Aug 23 2006 at 2:21pm | IP Logged
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Whew. This thread is really good for me right now.
I am feeling wiser by the minute 
Stephanie, you made so many good points in your post, I won't even address them all. But I learned something interesting - I didn't realize Maria von Trapp's children all left the Church. This, and other tales from other families, really helps us all keep perspective, doesn't it? There is an almost unavoidable pit we fall into when we face these challenges of parenthood - that IF ONLY we would have done such and such, it might have been different. Who would think that children immersed in the beauty of the Church's liturgical rhythm would leave for something less? But it happens.
A friend of mine recently echoed a thought I think I heard here also: her first daughter was a "model" child who acted responsibly and even devoutly, and the mother confessed, "I think we were sort of patting ourselves on the back for the great parenting job we were doing." Then came child #2. "He almost did us in," she groaned.
It IS so much about personality.
For any parents still wringing their hands, I will confess that I was into much more trouble than my own daughter is now (only my mother didn't really know, so she wasn't wrestling with me - on the outside, I looked like a "model" child, which I think was God's way of sparing my poor mother any more grief!). By 16, I was not in a good place; by 18, it was worse. It took me some time to get my head straight, and those experiences taught me a lot. Enough to write poetry and some inspiring prose 
My good spiritual father said to me once: "God put you in a place, in a certain family, and gave you this personality, allowed you these experiences and these hidden failures, all these oppositions and difficulties, and they have all made you what you are right now. And it's beautiful. He knows what He is doing."
Of course, that's true. But I blamed a lot of my mistakes on a dysfunctional home life, certain that if I had been given the opportunities and support that my dc are receiving, I would never have made the choices I did. So it is hard for me to see my daughter make poor choices or be so much less serious than I was at her age. But she is not me 
All we can do is all we can do. And it's precious little. These people have minds of their own and have to choose the truth for themselves. Meanwhile, we can only continue to offer the truth to them, and pray with and for them, and insist that they respect the rules.
For their own good and our sanity.
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KathrynTherese
my books
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momwise
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| Posted: Aug 23 2006 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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StephanieA wrote:
I have found that their level of spiritual maturity has not a lot to do with whether they were homeschooled or not. Really, how many saints were totally homeschooled?
I use to worry why, since I thought I was doing all the "right" things, my boys weren't more like Dominic Savio. Why weren't they making out lists of spiritual importance? I figured out that my boys weren't given the graces that Dominic was given.
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You're right Stephanie.
This is such a tricky topic to tread. Like Jane, I have found there is a difference in my 2 older boys who went to public school and the rest of my dc.
And there definitely are benefits to our dc when we parents obey God's will and consequences for them when we ignore God's will. In addition KathrynTherese, and I've thought of this many times as a consolation, even those dc who seem not to benefit from homeschooling are still being protected from something horribly worse. If you think about it, these dc who are rebellious or recklessly independent would be devoured in a public, unsupervised (what p.s. is) setting. So, in a sense we are protecting difficult children from a worse fate.
Then OTOH, I have to admit that I've made a huge amount of mistakes and some of them have been very detrimental to my dc.
KathrynTherese wrote:
| My good spiritual father said to me once: "God put you in a place, in a certain family, and gave you this personality, allowed you these experiences and these hidden failures, all these oppositions and difficulties, and they have all made you what you are right now. And it's beautiful. He knows what He is doing." |
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OTOH God gives his grace where He chooses for His purposes. There are some people (I know we wish it wasn't our dc) who do not experience God's mercy or love until they have lived without it (think prodigal son).
Come to think of it, the Prodigal son's father had 2 sons. One was very good and obedient and other spent his money on prostitutes. He was either a good father or a bad one and one of his sons received great graces of conversion without committing serious sin and the other received them after much sin and contrition.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Aug 23 2006 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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StephanieA wrote:
I think I believe more in prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit than I have ever in my life. God knows my kids. I just have to figure them out myself and try to set a good example. As Elizabeth said in a past post, we can be too anxious to compare....and I will add - to get a book and take advice :)
After a little advice is gathered, I think contemplation is needed - to know what YOUR child and family needs.
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Stephanie,
I think you've really hit a very good point here. Whenever we read a book, or more currently a website, or even hear a talk, we usually know very little about the person giving advice. Those author/speaker bios are very brief. What are his children like? What is his wife like? Does he have grown children? Are they happy? Are they well-adjusted? Are they good parents? Child rearing advice--even most "family living" advice is theory. It's great to listen to theories, to talk philosophy, to ponder, even to pray about what someone else suggests. But we need to guard against creating icons of mere mortals and taking their word as gospel. Before God, we are the experts on our children. We are the ones to whom He entrusted them and we are the ones He will hold accountable for their formation. While I agree that we are not solely resonsible for the choices they make as teenagers and adults, we are absolutely responsible for their formation. So it falls to us to discern both advice and advisors and sift it according to our understanding of what the Holy Spirit wants of us in order to form our children.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Aug 24 2006 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
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In trying to provide assurance (of which there is no assurance) that a wayward child does not always equal negligent parenting, I might have caused a misconception. After reading the public record of the above mentioned crime I’d like to clarify that I never meant to imply that bullying justified murder. Clearly, that is not God’s will. Murder leaves no room for redemption of the victim’s soul and that makes it even more tragic for his family. I just wanted to clarify. Thank you all for understanding.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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