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Bookswithtea
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I'm just wondering...has anyone considered just not having internet access in the house? I know it sounds extreme. Our children don't have access to the internet (my oldest is just 13) yet, so I don't really know what its like to have teens wanting to spend time on the net, chatting. But I've often thought that teens need help with the home being a place where temptation is not in their face all the time. Cable and the internet icky stuff can be overwhelmingly difficult to stay away from...many adults can't break the habit.
I don't know. There's also an argument to be made for helping them to use these tools responsibly.
Just wondering what others think about this...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Maddie
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Internet access is vital to my homeschooling, I use it daily. I'm still quite the novice at it but I have found google answers just about everything. That said, the computer is totally off limits for the children unless I am right there and the site is approved by me. They are allowed to receive emails from friends via my account which I print out for them like a letter. The computer is a tool for us like the television, it only goes on with my consent.
I know a h/s mother whose oldest was allowed much freedom with the computer, he was allowed to "chat" and fell in with a bad crowd of "good Catholic" kids online. He has left home, lost his faith and is very wild. My heart just breaks for that family as the younger ones have been exposed to so much through his bad example, we have had to limit contact with them for the sake of our own children's innocence. Perhaps I'm too over protective but the alternative is not an option to my conscience.
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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mumofsix
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Books - I think internet is different from television, for example, as it is a tool used by many in their working lives and not purely a source of entertainment. I would want to give a young person some training in the prudent use of a computer before he or she left home for college, for example. Some mature teenagers could benefit from this training earlier, and the one context in which net nanny etc. could be useful is in monitoring the initial use of a new computer user, with their full knowledge, to help them get started. If the child is basically trustworthy and can self-regulate and limit computer time, that will not be an excessive time stealer for the mother. But no mother of many can spend a lot of time on this so if it becomes necessary, that might be a very good point at which to have a long holiday from the computer, if only to protect the mother's precious time.
If a child is really suffering from serious temptation, then yes I would say get rid of internet access altogether for a while. If your right arm offends you, cut it off...
Jane.
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momwise
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Cathmomof8 wrote:
| Your teen years will be easier because of hsing." This just hasn't seemed to be the case for US. I wonder so often where we went wrong, what we should have done differently, why aren't my teens those wonderful happy hsing teens, loving and serving their families. |
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Oh boy...I just had to respond to this. To this day this statement you quoted remains one of my biggest and worst surprises (that it wasn't true, that is).
I remember clearly the years that I was going through my first and most intense "reversion" to the faith and discerning whether to homeschool and reading sooo many articles by other homeschoolers about how homeschooled children would not give their parents problems like the schooled kids.
Theresia, I was so shocked and amazed when we first started having problems with our ds. I could not figure out what went wrong. After all, all those other mothers had perfect kids.
Well, I found out differently eventually. I recently read a report in our local protestant homeschool journal analyzing the reasons teen children are rebelling (which reminds me...don't let others over-analyze your teen: our local support group newsletter once ran an article by a priest claiming that if both parents were Catholic and the family went to daily Mass and the teens still rebelled, well that family must not be practicing the Works of Mercy!).
If there is one thing Christians underestimate it is the power of free-will and the need to respect it. I've really grown in that knowledge with my non-Catholic dh and some good priests as Spiritual directors.
Bookswithtea wrote:
| I'm just wondering...has anyone considered just not having internet access in the house? I know it sounds extreme. |
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I sure have. Eventually we worked out our present system, which is to have the computer in a well used central room which is open and to take the cable box off whenever I leave or go to bed. It is a pain, but not terribly so. We don't have cable on the t.v. but there is plenty of raunchy stuff without it  . It's not that I don't trust the dc on the internet, it's that I don't trust the internet with my dc!
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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mumofsix
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I too recall reading books and articles that promised me that if I homeschooled my children, they would be perfect!
I do see a difference between my son who went to school until he was nearly nine, and the younger four who were homeschooled from the beginning, or nearly so (dd 16 spent just one year at school). The younger ones have retained their innocence for far longer. Even dd 16 is much more innocent and unspoiled than the average 16 year old in our culture, and I am not alone in saying this. (She communicates with her friends via snail mail and land line telephone and is perfectly content with this. She uses the computer for about half an hour per week, mainly to research her favourite football team or to play chess.)
So I do think that the sheltering that homeschool involves enables parents to keep their children away from evil and to give them an untainted Catholic world view, much more so than is possible with children who go to school, who will be introduced to the popular culture relentlessly, in the playground and in my country, sadly, increasingly in the classroom as well.
But this is where the internet comes in: if your child is spending a lot of time online and you cannot monitor it, you might as well let him hang out with other young people on the street corner. In fact, thinking about it, that would probably be safer on the whole, as the sheer numbers of malign influences would be much smaller in an evening on the street than he could meet in just a half hour on MSN messenger. So although your child is "home", he isn't really. He is out there in cyberspace, emotionally and intellectually far removed from you. So you lose the sheltering advantages of homeschooling. If your child spends a lot of time online with undesirable acquaintances you lose these advantages completely: indeed, he might be better off at school. At least in real life the number of bad companions might be fewer in number than in the virtual world.
I like Maddie's oxymoron "bad crowd of good Catholic kids". In point of fact most of them probably are good Catholic kids, insofar as they come from good families, and have good hearts. But put any large crowd of teenagers together completely unsupervised for long periods of time (as happens via the internet) and you are asking for trouble. It is unfair to expect them to behave impeccably, with all the temptations to which they are prone. They need to be socialised by adults, not each other.
Should we be asking, "What would Zelie Martin do in this situation?" What is the best thing for this child's soul? For some, careful and prudent internet use will be the best way to go. For others, perhaps for the time being at least, it may be complete abstinence as from a near occasion of sin.
Jane.
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mumofsix
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Quote from Gwen:-
our local support group newsletter once ran an article by a priest claiming that if both parents were Catholic and the family went to daily Mass and the teens still rebelled, well that family must not be practicing the Works of Mercy!).
If there is one thing Christians underestimate it is the power of free-will and the need to respect it.
I so agree with this, my caveats about the internet notwithstanding. I was told by a good priest (wiser than the one Gwen quotes!) that parents always think it is their fault, and fail to recognise that older teenagers are responsible for their own choices. It is psychologically comforting, of-course, to believe that it is all your fault, for then you can just put it right: you just have to find the right formula (e.g. just add in a Work of Mercy - as if one's life as a homeschooler is not one long act of mercy!!!) When in fact you may be able to do nothing but pray ... And that is when the spiritual growth REALLY has a chance to kick in!
Jane. (Taking a break from school planning for next year at 3:29 a.m. which is the only time I have enough peace to think!)
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Cathmomof8
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Jane, That is so true. And there is no peace to be found in the land of,
"What did I do wrong and now how am I going to fix it". The other aspect of
this is also how this kind of thinking can certainly be associated with
pride and a false sense of control. If my teens all are really good then I
must have done things right - I, me, myself - responsible. Having a
difficult teen has brought me to my knees like nothing else ever has. It's
also been humbling and has required me to see that it's not all about ME.
yikes. It's been an exhausting process and I have soooooooo far to go.
Sure wish God would just give a nice, straight forward list EACH DAY that
says things like, "No, he shouldn't go to So and So's house today." Yes,
45 mins on the computer is fine. "Yes, you should make him go to Mass on
Weds eve with you." "Yes, use THAT book with your 15yo." "When
he talks to
his sister like that, say ___ and do ___." And above all, "Do the above
stated things and your children will know, love and serve God all the days
of their lives, won't be rebellious, make bad decisions in their youth and
will steer clear of mortal sin ALWAYS. sigh. Sweet baby Annemarie is
calling.... 
Theresia - knowing she should probably proof read first but just can't
http://www.valkyrie.net
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teachingmyown
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Cathmomof8 wrote:
Jane, That is so true. And there is no peace to be found in the land of,
"What did I do wrong and now how am I going to fix it".
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This statement just brings me to tears, because that is the land I have been living in and it is overwhelming and heartwrenching.  And I certainly see where the pride thing comes in.
I have been trying to stop that thought process. But I can't help thinking that there is something here that I need to fix.
I am in a state of perpetual anxiety attacks right now as I contemplate this school year. When ds says, "Please, let me go to school, let me play football, I need that." my heart breaks. I feel angry and cheated by the "lie" that homeschooling would turn out perfect kids or at least holy mature kids who would see things from our point of view.
I am watching other local hsing parents struggle with their teens. Some struggle all the way through high school while continuing to homeschool. Some have adult children who now hate their parents for homeschooling them through high school. Some have put their teens in school like I did last year. They are dealing with the cr*p that goes with the ps environment and trying to hold the line steady to keep their kids from straying too far.
On the other hand, I see kids, both hschooled and never homeschooled, who just breeze through life, not to be touched by the ugliness that some of our kids can't seem to resist. I know some families that have both kinds of kids.
I am at a loss and not seeing any one answer that guarantees positive results. I have made my decision for this year in the face of some weighty opposition including my parents who have NEVER opposed me when it came to my parenting decisions. they will not come out and say anything but the looks on their faces was painful to me.
I find myself thinking that I just need to get through the next three years with no major trouble. Then I feel like I am wishing my child away. I also find myself thinking that if he might still find trouble and make bad decisions while homeschooling (as some of his peers have) then is there a point to killing myself, and maybe our relationship, by homeschooling him? I want a guarantee when there is not one.
It seems unfair that we struggle so hard and give so much of ourselves. But someone had sent me a quote from the Timberdoodle catalog that went something like this(I don't have the quote in front of me):
For those who live this life for today and think nothing of God and only of comfort and pleasure, this is as close to Heaven that they will ever get.
For those who live lives of self-denial and service to God and family, all the while seeking Heaven, this is as close to Hell as they will ever get.
Just some perspective to help keep us going.
Thank you all for this discussion. It helps to hear others in the same boat and other holy women who are there to help along the way.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Cay Gibson
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The French have an old saying which, I'm told, comes across much better in French than English because of the play on words. I think Louise B. might have the French translation. I've heard it spoken in the Cajun French dialect but can't type it to save my life. 
"Little children step on your feet. Older children step on your heart."
I agree with Stephanie. I think personality has a lot to do with all this. Also, KathrynTherese (incase it hasn't already been mentioned and I missed it) eating disorders and hurting oneself seems to come mainly from hormonal imbalance which is quite normal (though not 'right') with teenage girls.
Sorry if that has already been addressed. I meant to write earlier and got sidetracked.
I also think Theresia's statement has so much wisdom in it. It is so not a "ME" issue but mothers (and society at large) are driven to this conclusion. Everyone wants to blame someone and mothers are suckers for taking on the burdens of our children.
You know, most of us learned by our failures and mistakes. I know we hate to see our own children make these same failures and mistakes but we can talk until we're blue in the face and they still only learn by doing...which we discuss all the time here as in learning 4 real.
Rita Munn gave a fabulous talk last year at our local hs conference. Don't you know I found the tape yesterday while digging around in the cabinet for our Shurley English CD's and I listened to it this morning. 
She was (is) a witness to all parents who deal with issues concerning their growing children. I can't possibly rephrase everything she talked about but the talk is The Lord's Heriloom Roses. I can't find it at Champions of the Truth, Inc. but they are the ones who recorded the talk.
One thing I remember from the talk, she labeled problems not as "problems" but as "challenges".  And she says not to try "avoiding" the "challenges" but to embrace them.  Wow!
"The challenges that we face in parenting do not define our parenting. How we handle them does." ~ Rita Munn
She mentions that these children are God's children! Not ours. We're only babysitting them and the tempter (Satan) wants to pull you off the job and "the best way to pull a loving parent off the job is to make them feel unworthy." ~ Rita Munn
I really, highly recommend getting the tape. It'll be some of the best hsing dollars you ever spend.
I wish I could give some wisdom as well as that ungrasp-able, magic guarantee that all our child will turn out fine. But I can't. We have no assurance this side of heaven. It's all a mystery.
One of Rita Munn's sons is in jail and she spoke on this very topic by saying that she doesn't have a clue how God is using her son within that prison to share his knowledge of God and evangelize someone who wouldn't have been influenced otherwise. She won't know how on this side of heaven. She has to trust in God. And that's so hard for us mere mortals to do.
For a mother to view her son's imprisonment that way when one feels they have reached the lowest point of parenting is positive thinking. That is turning everything over to Christ. Talk about a leap of faith. That is faith!
Jane mentioned Zelie Martin. When Zelie died of cancer in her 40's, she was uncertain of daughter Leonie's future. She felt it was the worsst possible time for God to take her from this daughter's life. She had to give up all control and leave this child in God's hands and the prayers of her family.
It was no longer a ME issue, and she knew it; so she released her daughter over to God.
Still, the worry and fear of "am I doing enough" is found in all our hearts. Zelie Martin felt very responsible for her children's behavior, education, etc. and did not believe it was anyone else's duty to attend to the upbringing of her children.
Rita Munn, in her talkk, consistently says that we were specifically chosen by God to mother these children and we are the right parents for this child and have the strength to do the job. It's hard to believe that at times. But remember, Satan is the one wanting you to feel defeated and unworthy. Don't take the blame for your children's behavior and mistakes upon yourself. Take on the duty to show him his mistakes then let he/she take responsibility for them.
These are the times a mother stands on the side of the road leading to Calvary, alone except for her tears and prayers.
Perhaps our tears and unceasing prayers are but a bidding from Christ:
"Daughters of Jerusalem," He said, "weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children."
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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momwise
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What a great letter Cay. I need to get ahold of one of Rita's talks.
Molly I know so well what you are going through right now as the shock and guilt are so heavy on your heart in the beginning. And Theresia, I know what you mean about exhaustion. I can't believe some days how many things are thrown in our paths to trip us up or drive us off the path altogether. As you take care of one problem you say "Whew, glad that's taken care of" and 30 min. later it's something else.
There are some really great points in Cay's post. Once kids get to a certain age and choose to defy, you have to learn a certain amount of detachment. Not that you can detach emotionally; you'll always be the mom but you step outside and look at yourself as the person God put in this world to help this child. This is a consolation and brings a better amount of peace. Their journey is not your own personal journey; you are here to pray and receive and give the Spirit.
That's not to say I didnt' make mistakes or lots of parents don't just totally mess up. But God is gentle and merciful and when I learn my faults it just adds to the prayer and sacrifice for that child.
And when you said Theresia that this has brought you to your knees like nothing else...I totally relate. Did you ever ask God to make you more humble? Oh I did, and He did 
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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KathrynTherese
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I am continually humbled by the collective wisdom of this group. Truly. These are really insightful posts.
It seems to me that in any crisis there is probably a moment of "What did I do wrong?" or "What should I have done differently?" whether it's a broken arm or a broken heart. We doubt ourselves first.
But a bit of prayer and thought and more prayer should help us see past ourselves and recognize that this should not be the focus, unless there is some glaring error in what we are doing. But there rarely is.
And as Cay wisely noted, we all learned from our mistakes and failures (how many of us have said, even within this thread, something like, "I was doing worse at that age." Even my two good priest friends have said this to me!). Still, we hope our kids will just "get it" and be good, faith-filled souls who don't have to learn the hard way. There are a few of those fortunate ones out there, but I think they are rare.
My dh and I often say, when our dc surprise us (and this happens from the time they are about 18mos old!), "Well, look at that; this kid has a mind of his own." God gave them distinct personalities, specific gifts (and faults), a certain place in time and space and within our family, and a vocation to which they must grow. And we just grope along, doing our best, trying to point them in the right direction and encourage them in what is good and discourage what is not good. But ultimately, their destiny is between them and God, and they are His more than they are ours.
Maybe "teen trouble" is God's way of reminding us of that. They are not perhaps precisely what we hoped they would be, but it's ok. They are growing toward Him anyway.
As an update, Clare is doing better, and claims her razors are far behind her ("I just want to put that in a box and forget about it!") and her appetite is just fine She has been getting involved with a Challege Girls group with some older teens who I consider supremely respectable. Personally, I think she is relieved to be relieved of the burden of uber-coolness she had imposed on herself. I still don't like all her music, and her attitude still flares occasionally, but overall, I like what I see. She is not brooding or secretive or disconnected from us lately, and that speaks volumes.
She was negotiating an overnight at a friend's this weekend, and I told her that she could stay Friday, but not Saturday. She got all attitudinous and started hauling out all kinds of old business that was still festering and I answered each bullet point calmly and reasonably. Then she blurted out, "Well, I'm still mad at you, even though you've explained everything." And I said, "Well, I'm sorry to hear that, because I'm not mad at you. And I love you enough to risk your being mad at me, so I'm still standing by the rules we set. You can kick at them if you want, but you'll just exhaust yourself; I can't control how you feel about what I say, but you still have to abide by the rules. I hope you get over it soon, because we're going for coffee tomorrow." She looked sullen for a minute, and then she smiled and said, "At September Woods? I'm getting a Midnight Mocha."
Yes, all will be well...
__________________
KathrynTherese
my books
exhaling
opus gloriae
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Kim F
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One of Rita Munn's sons is in jail and she spoke on this very topic >.
God bless her for her honesty! It is a sign of true humility. Too many of us are fettered by pride and shame when a grown child doesnt perform well.
Its interesting that Amish children choose not to become adult members of their faith at a rate of about 20%. Dh and I were discussing that. They don't seem to beat themselves silly over that fact. It is the childrens decision. I would guess that is a pretty standard rate for the general Christian population from what we have seen.
We have to allow them the same free will God allowed His children. That said, I have been reflecting on the Pieta statue a great deal lately. And the prodigal son. He was described as living in the pigsty. Isn't that pretty much what the "world" amounts to? Ugh.
We are not allowing the younger set to have the same net access the older ones had as teens. (as in they have none outside of google) And Asher who is the oldest teen left at home can only access in the kitchen during our waking hrs. We passcode it afterwards. Will they never see crud? Of course they will eventually. But I do think the age of first exposure is crucial to how images and ideas get implanted in their minds.
I don't think restriction is the right term. I think distraction is better. We are trying not to focus on the can't part and rather on the what can we do together instead aspect. I don't want rebellion from the sheltering but I do think its crucial. Crucial.
Kim
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Cay Gibson
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Kim F wrote:
Too many of us are fettered by pride and shame when a grown child doesnt perform well.
We have to allow them the same free will God allowed His children. That said, I have been reflecting on the Pieta statue a great deal lately. And the prodigal son. He was described as living in the pigsty. Isn't that pretty much what the "world" amounts to? |
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In Henri Nouwen's book The Return of the Prodigal Son he makes a strong case for how the "good" son was as much at fault (and sin) as the younger rebellious son. HOw so? Through his pride, his lack of compassion, his arrogance. (Pride was Satan's downfall too. For us to look at how Christ humbled himself before us will teach us great things about humility before our children.)
I didn't even think of this book until you mentioned the prodigal son, Kim. Perhaps it might help some parents out.
Nouwen brings the parable to life with empathic analyses of each character. Nouwen's absorption in the story (and the painting) is so complete that the father's challenge to love the son, and the son's challenge to receive that love, become Nouwen's own.
Kim F wrote:
I don't think restriction is the right term. I think distraction is better.
Kim |
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 Very good!
Perhaps we need to dissect some of these "distractions". I mean, honestly, the world offers so many "distractions" that our children can't seem to see past them. What and how do we "distract" them?
I think first they need a focus for their energy...preferably in their God-given talent that they can take into the workplace.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Kim F
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This last line is my thought too Cay. This is why we are pursuing hobbies with such gusto. People ask me HOW we find the time. I feel like you can take the time now or later. I would rather take it being proactive! Keep their minds and hands busy.
Asher has the piano which admittedly drives us to distraction some days. <g> Hours and hours and HOURS of piano. But hey, its supposed to be good for your brain and certainly keeps you busy. Ditto for the horses and the arts the girls do. We are putting out some cash for those things (and they have piano too) but I would so rather spend my time this way.
Still, no guarantees.
I am reading an awesome book called Wild Child, Waiting Mom. It is coauthored by a mother and her daughter who embodied the prodigal experience. Just year after year of one disastrous choice after another. Funny thing is her older brother was the epitome of Christian living. He was solid in his faith, in his relationships, in college and career. Same family. Same upbringing. The girl couldn't even point to anything her parents did "wrong". Just said that the thrill of the moment was all she lived for.
I think there is only so much you can do when you are battling that in a child. You can't give them fortitude. You can teach it. You can model it. You can't give it to someone.
I will look for the book you mentioned. Sounds great!
Kim
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Elizabeth
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I do think it's interesting to note that Rita Munn didn't start homeschooling until 1996, which was the year after the crime was committed. I wonder how much that experience figured into her family's decision to educate at home.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cay Gibson
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Rita did say they have been "homeschooling" since she got pregnant with her first. She said her "mothering" has encompassed everything she's ever done. Even when she got a degree in nursing, her first thought was "Now I can really be a better mother."
Gosh, I can relate to those words. 
Quote while sharing things she has done in her life:
"But at the core of everything it was just being a mother. Hsing was just another extension...like making my own bread or anything I did from my heart for my children, it was just an extension of that. It was never about their education because I always knew that my children would succeed because God had created them to succeed and all I had to do was stand back and make sure I gave them enough love and energy to get out there and do it. It has never been about education and it has always been about being with them and bringing them to the Lord." ~ Rita Munn
I, personally, think "schooling" is such a small part of the "home-schooling" equation. It does not define our families. As Molly has mentioned, we all know hsers who would not make a very good "role model" for the hsing community poster. We also all know schooling children who make their parents proud. Even in the schools, education is such a small part of the equation. Attitude, dress code, social norms (more than academic performance) rule the school mentality.
I have no doubt the crime Rita's son committed figured in strongly to their decision to hs. But I think, inevitably, everything leads back to the home. Just as children shouldn't place the blame on their parents for the mistakes they make, neither should we place the blame on the schools for our mistakes and that of our children's.
Home is where the heart is. It all begins there. And, still, we are all bombarded (our children more so) with society, cultural norms, peers, temptations of every kind. Do we hold our children accountable for all their actions and decisions? We should.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Elizabeth
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I wasn't putting the blame on anyone Cay. I can't do that. I was pointing out that this child went to school. So, if we are talking about how homeschooling children can and do go astray, he is not one of those children. If, however, we are talking about how children of devout parents can and do go astray, he fits. He spent all day, every day in a school setting for at least twelve years. That influence cannot be discounted and we don't really know what the extent of that influence was.
I'm not really sure I understand Rita's quote above enough to comment on it.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cay Gibson
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Elizabeth, I understand what you're saying and , I guess (as shown through KathrynTherese, Molly, and Jane's experience) this is more a discussion about "devout" families having problems with their children more so than "hsing" family having problems...er, challenges ...with their children.
I wanted to add one thing I remember Rita saying about the crime. I'm vague on whether they believe he actually did the crime or not but he was found guilty. That being said, I'm getting squimish about talking about someone's else's child, especially without their input, so I'll just close by saying that I remember the crime dealt with a bullying issue. He went to college and was being harrassed (by his roommate, I think) and got to the end of his rope.
Perhaps you're on to something here, Elizabeth. How many children spend twelve years in a school setting, being harassed, picked upon, judged for their religious beliefs, etc. and get to the point that they can't take it anymore?
Doesn't make these crimes right and it doesn't make it the parent's "mistake". It's certainly another angle to reflect upon, though I'm not sure I'm expressing it clearly.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Elizabeth
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Cay,
You're absolutely right; the crime is a matter of public record but I am not comfortable discussing it publicly here at all.
Back to the original track...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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folklaur
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KathrynTherese wrote:
| I have spoken with the girl�s mom and we are on the same page � I think if both girls know both sets of parents are watching, they won�t have much wiggle room and they can encourage each other to take a step up. |
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Can I ask a side question? What do you do, when you talk to the Mother of the other girl, and she either is in complete denial about her own daughter's bahavior, or assures you she will keep an eye on things -- and then you find out that she actually encourages some of the bahaviors? How would you react?
What would you do, if you explained to her that you did not want your child to dress in Gothic outfits -- and then you found out later she not only let your daughter come there and change into these kinds of outfits and makeup, but also took pictures of the girls dress liked this and took them to the Mall?
What if it wasn't as simple as just not allowing your daughter over to their house -- as you are all part of the same Catholic homeschool group? And the same Catholic homeschool teen group? And the other teens all seem to follow this other girl as a leader? And now your daughter finally isn't so then is ostracized by many in the group?
I could use some advice....
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