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lapazfarm
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A few more components:
In addition to the Arrow are the Slingshot (high school) and Boomerang (not sure the age group here, as it is new). They are just like the Arrow, but each targets a specific age group.
Online classes. Julie offers several online writing classes for various age groups. You can see them described on her website.
Bravewriter Lifestyle: this is simply an email loop where Julie sends automated daily reminders about what you could be doing each day. For example on tuesday it says "tuesday tea", etc. This is helpful when first implementing the teaching tips in the book, Writer's Jungle. I subscribed for a year when I started, but now I am comfortable eliminating that aspect.
The most important thing in my opinion is the book. Though much of her method can be gleaned from the website , the book puts it together in a very thorough, organized way. It walks you through the steps for growing a writer, from earliest pre-writing stages through high school.
The Arrow and such are very simple support materials for doing the dictation component to address grammar, etc. The beauty of them is that you don't have to choose your own passages, as Julie has done that for you. You do not have to read the books to use the passages, as they are meant for grammar, punctuation, etc practice and function independantly that way, but I think it would be nice to do so.
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mumofsix
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Here is another vote for Julie Bogart.
The simplest way to implement her ideas would be to buy "The Writer's Jungle". It may seem pricey, but you could use it for ALL your children, so it is good value. There is an appendix at the back which gives you a sample schedule for writing instruction, or rather language arts instruction, for various levels. I am using it for dd 9 and ds 4. (My dd 16 is preparing for British public examinations in which all the language arts stuff is already covered well.) At the first level, which Julie calls "Jotting it down", there are so many great suggestions for even very young children.
This appendix really does the hand-holding bit, telling you when to use a handwriting book, when and how often (and how many sentences  ) to do copywork and dictation, ideas for writing projects, when to introduce formal grammar study (and she suggests that learning a foreign language will do this job very well) and so on.
So all you really need is the "Writer's Jungle". You could add on online courses for your older children later if you wish, but honestly the "Writer's Jungle" will be plenty to begin with as it has so many good ideas in it. I actually unsubscribed from the yahoo list as like you I do not wish to spend more time than I have to on the computer, but was pleased to be able to thank Julie for her work, which has been such an inspiration to us.
As others have said, the great strength of this programme is in the way it MOTIVATES. Writing is for many children the most difficult academic skill to master, and can be downright disheartening for a child with any degree of dyslexia, and for many wriggly, active boys with slow fine motor development. I am so pleased I have this, especially for my little son, and I wish I had had it for my older son. You would still be able to integrate the use of your Seton products for handwriting, grammar, etc.
Jane.
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lapazfarm
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I agree with Jane. All you really need is TWJ. The other stuff is just extras and I don't use any of it.
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Theresa
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Martha
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mumofsix wrote:
| You would still be able to integrate the use of your Seton products for handwriting, grammar, etc. |
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oh. incentive there! I like my materials, we just want to add in more writing than what Seton gives in the lesson plans. Or at least, find something that makes the Seton writing assignments less of a chore with better results.
hmmmm... thanks ladies...
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Elizabeth
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While I have found Writer's Jungle to be a resource I'd recommend, particularly for mothers who need help guiding children through the writing process, I do so now with a caveat.
I would not enroll in the online classes and I would be careful that my inquisitive children not be allowed access to Julie's blog Julie Unplugged or her UPI column. I can see curious students wanting to see the teacher's writing at work and I don't think the writing or the worldview are appropriate models.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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lapazfarm
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Elizabeth,
I can certainly understand (and agree with) your cautioning against the blog and column as they are adult in nature and not Catholic, but can you explain your concerns with the online classes? I was considering them for ds next year and I thought they were just writing classes. So far everything I have seen on the Bravewriter site has been fine and there are no links from there to the other material as far as I can tell. Have you experienced anything inappropriate in the classes?
Thanks
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Theresa
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Elizabeth
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My concern with the online classes is the same as it would be if my child were in a real life class and the teacher had expressed the views expressed in the blog and column. The posts raised red flags and that owuld be a teacher I'd watch very carefully. (But part of the reason I've opted out of school is that it's really hard to watch everyone's teachers very carefully or to "unsay" what's been said.) Particularly in literature discussion classes for middle and high schoolers, there is the potential for confusion. Today's blog entry is on Harry Potter and moral relativism. What if those views were expressed by the teacher in an online discussion of HP or of other literature and the conversation compared it to HP? I remember at 13 being very confused by teachers who were expressing views that contradicted my parents. I'd prefer to be the one to introduce and discuss those conflicting views when I am certain a child is ready. In the case of an online class discussion, I don't want the child bumping up against conflicting values without my being prepared.
I backed away from Bravewriter this time last year bcause of concerns I had over a recommendation of a CD in Julie's personal blog. The blog was not intended for students but it was easily found by my highschooler. There was nothing objectionable in Bravewriter and nothing objectionable in the class at that point. But we were registered for a short story discussion class and a host of other resources for the coming year and my sense was that I didn't need a tool that I was going to feel I needed to monitor constantly.
There is only so much of me to go around--I really need to be careful about what I bring into the house and who I enlist to help me teach. For me, it was simpler just not to go invite potential problems. Enough of them present themselves uninvited  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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lapazfarm
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Thanks, Elizabeth. I understand totally where you are coming from on that one!
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Theresa
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mumofsix
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Thank-you Elizabeth for your caveat about Bravewriter online classes. While I was not intending to use these next year, I did have them in mind for the future. I really appreciate your charity in sharing this information, of which I was totally unaware.
Jane.
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jdostalik
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I agree with Jane, too, Elizabeth. I have a budding writer who is very easily influenced by others, I understand your concerns and thank you for your thoughts.
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stefoodie
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Thanks for the heads up, Elizabeth.
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BrendaPeter
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Hi Martha,
I hope I don't confuse you too much, but I wanted to mention that I once owned Bravewriter but sold it as I didn't feel very confident in implementing the ideas. I have heard that the (front) composition section of Voyages in English is quite good. Also, I absolute love the program we are using this year which is called Classical Writing. It's extremely comprehensive in that it can be an entire English program incorporating spelling, grammar & composition, BUT you can limit it to composition. The best part for me is the student workbook. It along with the teacher's manual spells things out so nicely that it works very well for someone like me who needs lots of handholding. 
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Bookswithtea
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I just saw this. Hope its ok to bump it back up?
Regarding Julie's online writing courses. We use the Writer's Jungle without the yahoo loop/slingshot/classes, so I have not taken any of them. However, I do know the moms that Julie has hired. One is an evangelical. One is a conservative Lutheran. And the third is an evangelical with a strong bent towards Catholicism. All three are respectful of Catholicism. Julie always mentions who the teacher is in her emails about upcoming classes.
Fwiw, I've seen her blog before, (and I don't recommend it for your children), but I don't think she would influence children away from the faith of their families, either. In some ways, I'm glad that her materials are not explicitely religious. I personally am more wary of proselytizing protestants than I am of materials like Bravewriter. If I wanted to take a book discussion style class, I'd probably just check to see what books are being discussed first (and skip if it was something like the Harry Potter books).
A meager .02.
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Martha
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Well, I certainly don't mind the bump...
I would dearly enjoy the financial freedom to purchase this, but it's just not possible. That's a mighty painful tag she has on TWJ. I also looked into Shurley English with the same sentiment.
It looks like I'm going to have to wing it! That's the plan I can afford. Thanks ladies.
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Natalia
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Martha,
I just purchased TWJ this year. Until now, I used the free email services and the ideas on her Bravewriter blog. They ideas might help you to "wing it". I found her ideas refreshing and "implementable" without the book. The book is great and it gives you more details of her philosophy of writing but I still think you can benefit from her ideas from the emails. We have loved using her freewrite prompts. The other idea that I gleaned from her emails was the Tuesday Teatime where we read poetry. I has been fun and it has given me a structure to help me remember that poetry is important.
Natalia
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Tina P.
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What about Andrew Pudewa's Writing for Excellence? Has anyone tried that? Do you like it? Recommend it? I'd like to hear about it. I think he's Catholic, too...
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Martha
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$160.00
one word.
ouch.
I guess if I could see these programs before hand it would seem more reasonable to me. But sight unseen? No.
Not that it matters. I really can't spend that kind of money now even if I did feel the risk was worth it.
I will check out the free options at Bravewriter though.
Thanks.
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Martha
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Mary G
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Martha -- you also might want to check out WriteGuide -- it's run by a former English teacher and his wife, both Catholic homeschoolers (as are most of their teachers). You can try it out for 30 days or longer increments....
I was a consultant (aka, teacher) for them last year and really enjoyed the program. It's extremely flexible and geared to be individualized writing for any age student. Let me know if you're interested in further info....
Blessings
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my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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ALmom
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Martha, If all you want is to find something inexpensive that gives guidelines for different types of writing - and some instructions in how to go about it, here are a few suggestions:
Format Writing - very formulaic and dry but might be helpful for the student who tends to think black and white and just tell me what you want. It is almost written like a computer program so it may be a killer for the more free wheeling.
Kolbe has a compostion workbooks for several different grade levels. I found them more varied in style - to allow for individual writing styles yet still presenting principles of good writing. (Avoiding overused words, interesting intros, a variety of ways to organize thoughts, etc.) It is still workbooky but really pretty good.
Even if we don't always do the recommended essays (we often use our own ideas), the examples, checklists, etc. were very helpful to my dc. The best part is that both are fairly short, and inexpensive. Workbook haters and those who place a high premium for creativity might not care for them, but we found them helpful as a quick introduction to the mechanics of putting together essays - or as teaching tools for areas where we saw a weakness.
I personally think the Kolbe composition books are better at allowing for differences in style and some room for creativity. They are considered good supplements to Voyages and run $11 for the student book and $8 for the teacher's book/AK. It starts somewhere around the 6th grade level.
Another option would be to just purchase the resource book for the Writing Strands program - I forget what it is called now, but I purchased it from a ForReal member on the sales board very inexpensively.
I'm not sure if these are quite what you are looking for but you could certainly ask for a description or ask specifically if it has certain things in it that you feel are missing from the Seton program.
Janet
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Karen T
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We started using this at the end of last year and it is wonderful IMO. I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone, but for my ds it's the right fit. We had tried Bravewriter (the email loop, the Arrow and one online class) with very little results. Ds was just too reluctant to write anything b/c he was faced with such huge possibilities of what to write. IEW solves that; it teaches writing by having the kids read others' writings, whether simple paragraphs, short stories, or full resources for research, etc. They then learn to find the key concepts and then re-write it on their own later, using only their outlines. It is very similar to how many great writers (Ben Franklin is one example given) learned to write. It frees the kids from having to work on both style and substance simultaneously. As they learn more structure and style, they can become more confident in their ability and focus more on creativity. the book Thomas Jefferson Education describes this method also.
I had really thought it was too structured to be helpful, but it has really taken the stress off ds and he no longer complains about writing assignments. As a bonus, the process is teaching him to find the important parts of what he's reading (something he was not very good at focusing on before) and then re-telling it (narration!).
yes, it is pretty expensive, but the TWSS (Teaching Writing structure and style) - which is the 9 DVD set which teaches the parent, can be used for all levels, used for many years, and also has high re-sale value. That is all you really need. However, if you can swing it, the SWI (student writing intensive) is a 4 disc set that lets you have Andrew teach the student directly for awhile until you get the hang of things. These are set up in 3 age levels - elem, middle and high school, but you only use one of them, not progress through each set. These also have high resale value online. There is a very active yahoo group for IEW, called IEW families, where you can ask lots of questions before buying and also for support afterward. There is also a sister list for selling used sets, but you have to be a member of the first list before joing the buy/sell list. If you are interested in the programs, I would encourage joining the lists and watching for used stuff to come up (it goes quickly!) I think most people sell there rather than Cathswap or ebay for example.
Another option is to have the course as a co-op. Your group can buy the TWSS and everyone watch it together or take turns lending out. Each family must buy their own student book, but that's pretty inexpensive. There are a lot of files available from the yahoo group to help with various parts of the programs, extra lesson plans, and even info on how to get started.
Andrew is very engaging as a speaker.
I know i sound like an infomercial here. I am not affiliated with IEW in any way! I know it's hard to justify that much money sight unseen. He does do seminars locally around the country, and there are also video clips on the website to give you a brief idea. sample video clips Try the one about All Kinds of Writers!
I know some of you don't like IEW but it works well for us!
karen T
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Writing programs
