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rivendellmom
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Molly,
We were in a similar situation last year when we let our oldest son try public high school. He asked to have a my space site because the other kids did. He met a girl at summer school and went out with her even though I had always said I didn't want the kids to date in high school. I basically bent on everything he asked me because we wanted him to have the "high school" experience. He was going to the same school that DH and I both went to. We also had no reason not to trust him.
He started lying about both big and small things, he got caught stealing a brownie from the cafeteria at school, and was arrested and sent to teen court. He allowed his friends to destroy property that belonged to us. He was surly with his younger siblings and they didn't like him anymore. This happened from last August until January. We pulled him out of school, and he started ninth grade over at home. He was on total lock down for almost 4 months. No TV,internet, phone, and he could not leave my sight. At the time I compared him to our dog. The dog will rip up the garbage, and as soon as he sees me he'll start shaking because he knows he did something wrong. That didn't stop him from doing it, because he hdoesn't know how to think out his actions and consequences. Neither does my teen. Well, he's improving now.
We were completely lax as parents go and are now completely different. All the kids are always held accountable for their actions, and if they show us that they can't handle the amount of freedom they have, we dial it back. My oldest can now got to the skate park or the pond with his friends, but if he comes home with any attitude towards me or the siblings then he is back with us. He knows I read all his email and he is responding well to this highly structured (not me) environment that we've had to create for him. The key is to be consistent. My first inclination is to be nice. That is almost always wrong. Remember your younger kids are watching how you handle this. I always think about how I do not want this to become a pattern with the rest of them.
Just know that you aren't alone. We are all struggling to get our kids to heaven.
__________________
Jen in suburban Chicagoland Mom to Connor(91), Garrett(93), Reilly (95), Mary Katherine (98), Declan (05), Ronan in ^i^ 6/28/08
visit our new blog: http://recreationalscholar.blogspot.com/
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momwise
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You and your dh have been so wise Jen. Basically if you have a child who is going to test you, he'll have to suffer the consequences now or later. I don't know why my dh and I were so clueless about this early on but we were. So now, we've got a 20 yr. old back at home starting off where he should have been at 15. This is not to say all dc will respond in a positive manner to the discipline, but some will. We did eventually get to many of these consequences but we waited it out way too long.
guitarnan wrote:
| My daughter's godparents used to be Toughlove coordinators. (Their older daughter, born before their marriage and adopted by my dd's godfather, wound up addicted to drugs, etc. and still has her problems...but her parents say that Toughlove definitely saved their marriage and sanity.) If you like, I'll put you in touch with them. They are devout Catholics. |
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This is the kind of resource I wish I had found at the very beginning of our struggles. They can be so supportive and affirming, so you can receive the strength and wisdom you need when you are unsure or worn out. I hope it works out that you can give them a call Molly.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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mumofsix
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Dear Molly,
To be honest with you, I would want at this point to separate my son from all the toxic "friends", have a six week moratorium on all electronic forms of entertainment, and then reintroduce them only very gradually, withdrawing them immediately they are misused in any way, and keep him at home, or out with you or your husband only, for at least three months, and then reintroduce appropriate freedoms slowly and only as he demonstrates (through being trustworthy) that he can cope with them.
At the same time I would take every opportunity to show and tell him how very much you love him, as he may be doubtful of that on some deep level. (I think Elizabeth's comments were very pertinent.) Remind him of when it was you and Charlie contra mundum and of how much he means to you. Spend time with him.
Pray yes, the rosary, have a Mass said for him, have a house blessing (in the Old Rite, the New Rite is too denuded), pray to Saint Michael. This is a spritual battle and your son is the prize. Fight like hell for him.
Get lots of support for youself as he will be very angry intially. Don't let yourself get sucked into his anger but remain calm and loving while rock like in firmness. Yes you can do it, with prayer.
You are not stupid and he is not laughing at you. You tried something prima facie reasonable but which didn't work. He is bewildered and probably rather frightened. You can try something different now, and more suited to the Charlie who needs more time to grow up and develop his attachment to you and therefore his conscience. There is lots of hope. My own son, who was ready to leave a few months ago, is now doing very well.
Jane.
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momwise
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mumofsix wrote:
Dear Molly,
have a house blessing (in the Old Rite, the New Rite is too denuded), pray to Saint Michael. This is a spritual battle and your son is the prize. |
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Thank you Jane....I meant to come back to add this. For several reasons we had to have our previous house blessed twice; we (actually it was I and only I who was interested in doing these things but I went ahead and had the whole family there anyway) also had our family and home consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I didn't know about the difference between the old and new forms but now I'm going to see if we can use the Old Rite here at this house. Use holy water liberally. Here's a prayer you can use several times a day:
"Oh Lord, I beg you to visit this home and banish from it all the deadly power of the enemy. May your holy angels dwell here to keep us in peace and may your blessing be upon us always."
I use it at night for each child's room, substituting "room" for "home" and adding the children's names for "us." Also, as Jane said, say the Rosary. The enemy will want you to skip it, so pray for the graces all day to get through it as I have to do sometimes (and just reading my own advice reminds me I have been giving in way too often).
Jane, I am so glad to hear your son is doing well. We're having some success here too. May Jesus be praised!
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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rivendellmom
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Wow! I never thought of having our home blessed. That is a great idea. I'll have to ask around and see who I could get to come out to the house.
I wanted to add (as Jane said) that keeping him away from his friends was essential. They are in the clutches of the enemy (I do pray for them too) and every contact with them will take you a few steps back, as your son gets more resentful of being away from them. That is one of the reasons I am so anxious to move.
Jen
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visit our new blog: http://recreationalscholar.blogspot.com/
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mumofsix
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Gwen, that is great news about your son!
I will tell you the reason I stress the Old Rite of house blessing. While I do love the Tridentine (Old Rite) Mass, I also love the Novus Ordo and am not, as such, a Tridentinist. However, the New Rite of house blessing is very denuded of references to evil. In the Old Rite, the water and salt to be used as blessed water and blessed salt is not just blessed, but actually exorcised. My brother who did the house blessing for us insisted on the Old Rite, even though he is an ordinary parish priest who says the Novus Ordo Mass 90% of the time, for this very reason. My son had come under the influence of a disturbed lady who had dabbled in the occult as a young woman (she it was who lashed out at us subsequently) and I really feel he was set free in a very important sense (and he felt that too). So many young people lay themselves wide open for demonic attack by transgressing the sixth commandment (Satan's great mockery of the incarnation) or by dabbling directly in the occult or coming under the influence of people who are demonically oppressed for the above reasons.
Any devotion to Our Blessed Mother is powerful because she is the devil's direct adversary, especially the rosary, enthronement of Our Lady as Queen of your family and wearing a blessed Miraculous Medal.
Jane.
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teachingmyown
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Thank you all. I have been reading and re-reading your responses and really praying about the whole situation.
Elizabeth really captured my struggle when she said not to parent out of fear. That is exactly how I have parented this child, out of fear and guilt, all of his life. Guilt about bringing him into the world without a father, then guilt about the conflict between Court and him. I have always been afraid of losing him or of him losing his soul.
I had a talk with him about things that are going on. He told me he had already made a decision to stop seeing the girl so he shouldn't be punished. He still doesn't think drinking a few beers is a big deal. It is a hard one to get through his head.
Like Jen, my first response is always to be too soft. I want to believe his good intentions and I hate conflict. At the moment he is grounded indefinitely, he has lost his text-messaging (which was how he was communicating with this girl behind our backs) and he is losing his Myspace page.
He doesn't understand the loss of myspace, he says he doesn't do anything bad there. I am trying to make him understand that the whole climate of myspace is one of narcissism and unbridled sleeze.
I was going to stop there (being soft  ) but after reading your responses I know I need to take stronger action now instead of assuming that it is not THAT bad yet.
One problem I have is that the boys he was fishing and drinking with, (with one notable exception) are actually good boys. They go to Mass and are chaste. They are hard workers and respectful to their parents and other adults. They just don't seem to accept that underage drinking is a problem. Kind of a "boys will be boys" type of thinking. My son says that they aren't getting drunk, just drinking a beer or two. He thinks this makes it okay.
Honestly, other than this situation, these would be the boys I would want him to be with. But obviously I can't allow my son to hang out with them if this is going to happen. It is so frustrating.
I feel weak and I feel alone in this battle. We went to Confession yesterday and I am grateful to our Lord for that beautiful opportunity to start again...and again. I am praying for balance and for the intercession of St. Monica. I need to pray with my son as well. And keep him close to me.
Thank you all. I am exhausted and worry that this post might seem too muddled. You really are my support and I am so grateful.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Elizabeth
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Molly,
Do their parents know they're drinking? I'd want to know...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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aussieannie
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Gwen and Jane, it is good to hear the spiritual 'weapons' and just what you do with them.. it is like approaching these things with a pitchfork and one of the prongs is the spiritual weapons, maybe it is like the centre one that is slightly longer than the rest.
Consecrating children daily to Our Lady is powerful, even saying, "I bind the heart of my son to the Immaculate Heart" or "He is yours, I give him to you Mary." over and over again, it is something you can remember off by heart and therefore able to keep up saying it regularly.
I can't help but to think of Father Corapi, in this discussion - how he knew some ladies, one that owned a hair salon, who had holy water in the spray bottle  and the other who worked at a drug detox centre, she put blessed salt and holy water in the soups and cooking in general. Sounds crazy, but he knew or saw more than most people, what we can be up against.
I remember having a close friend who was on heroin and close to suicide - dh and I, plus my parents did alot for her during that period to help get her drug free, but then finally she had to step out on her own and very shakily too (high re-use rate)- she had a love for Our Lady (she is not Catholic) and wore a miraculous medal from then on, and does to this day, we were able to say the miraculous medal prayer for her everyday - I just feel that when Our Lady is brought into the equation, she succeeds where you are just trying to be faithful (thinking of Mother Teresa's words here) but she is a mother to us all, my favourite quote from her own lips is this,
"Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you ot under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hollow of my mantle, in the crossing of my arms?
As you turn to her Molly, for your son, be comforted by those words.
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Leonie
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Molly, you are not alone - we are all here.
I'm with Elizabeth - I'd want to know if my kdis were into the under age drinking. Do you think the other parents want to know or do they think it is a "boys will be boys" thing?
I know you said your ds doesn't understand some of your rules ( eg the My Space blog and under age drinking) but, after we have explained things and our decision, I think we just go with it - even if our kids don't understand. And with prayer, hope that they will one day...
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esperanza
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aussieannie wrote:
and the other who worked at a drug detox centre, she put blessed salt and holy water in the soups and cooking in general. Sounds crazy, but he knew or saw more than most people, what we can be up against. |
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I have a friend who has cooked with holy water for her dc's sake. I felt wrong in doing this. ..but almost desperate enough to do it. Is this a reverent use of the sacramental?
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In His Peace,
Tammy Gonzalez in VA
dh-Johnny
mom to Tara-'85, Noelle-'88, Jeremy-'91, Elizabeth-'93, Emma-'96, Dominic-'99, Gabriel-'01, Elijah-03
and Jacinta-06
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aussieannie
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esperanza wrote:
| I have a friend who has cooked with holy water for her dc's sake. I felt wrong in doing this. ..but almost desperate enough to do it. Is this a reverent use of the sacramental? |
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With the eating and drinking of it, I believe yes, I had a quick look on the net and found
this - as for the spray bottle....I don't know! If the user is praying for the person he/she is applying it to, sounds ok, someone else might weigh in on this who may have better knowledge on it.
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Dawnie
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I wanted to chime in on the underage drinking issue. I really think that alcohol is too powerful a drug for teenagers to be using without supervision. Having a glass of wine at dinner with Mom and Dad is one thing, but teenagers secretly drinking together is quite another. I abused alcohol as a teenager and young adult, so I know how quickly things can get out-of-control. There were many times I intended to have "only one or two" that ended up with me being dangerously drunk. You don't have to drink very much before you are doing things you normally wouldn't do. I think you are right to put your foot down about this. It's a safety issue and also a legal issue. He isn't 21, and if he and his friends (and whoever is supplying beer for them) get caught by the police, they'll really be in trouble.
Still praying,
Dawn
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teachingmyown
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Elizabeth wrote:
Molly,
Do their parents know they're drinking? I'd want to know... |
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I haven't called yet. But I need to...
The one boy has been caught by his mom before at home. Again, not binge drinking or anything, just helping himself to a beer.
I have a feeling that the "one notable exception"'s parents won't care. But I don't really know them.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Diane
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Molly, I want to let you know that I've been thinking about you and your ds and praying for you. I also want to offer a practical suggestion, something I've started doing with my dd. She turned 13 in March and has developed a bit of an attitude in the past year, quite self-centered, which has been so frustrating and disappointing for dh and me. She's basically a sweet, happy kid, grounded in her faith and a strong sense of morality, but she's surrounded by ps kids here who don't share her beliefs or values. It's been quite an internal struggle for her. She's very much an extrovert and wants to be with her friends, even though she knows they aren't always the best influence.
Anyway, she and I started walking together at night. We've done this on and off in the past, but now I've made it non-negotiable. Every night at 9pm we hit the road and briskly walk 2-4 miles together. Dh gets the others into bed at this time, although often we bring along one or two of the little ones in the running stroller and they fall asleep pretty quickly. It's forcing me to exercise each day, but more importantly it is giving us some special one-on-one time, which we rarely seem to achieve during the day. This dd is a talker anyway, but she seems to open up and share from her heart even more on these walks. It's been so good for our relationship, and I think it's helping her to work through some things.
I don't know if something like this would work for you and Charlie, but I wanted to mention it, just in case. It might be worth a try. You're in my prayers. 
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Diane
Mom to five fair lasses and one bonny prince
The Journey of a Mother's Heart
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shartlesville
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Molly (and Jen),
I can absolutely relate! 
My second oldest, Elizabeth, was always a "difficult" child. She was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD at the age of 4. With two years of counseling she was much better. She was still difficult but manageable.
In 2001 she begged us to let her go to the local high school for 9th grade. Her friends parents even came over to "convince" me to let her give it a try.
It was the biggest mistake of my parenting life. 
(oops, I hit the wrong button)
She started lying, then "running away" to her friend's house, then swearing at everyone. I decided to pull her out in December and she even called me a b*tch in front of the principal.
We put her on complete lock-down for 3 months. As soon as she was allowed privileges she started sneaking around. She was on the internet with older men who were sending her disgusting images. She was chatting with someone local who was 21, she had barely turned 14. She was behaving so well in every other area, we had no idea that this was going on for almost two months. When we found out we were furious. We contacted the young man and told him she was only 14, she had told him she was 18. He agreed to stay away from her. She was back on lock-down.
Two weeks later, she stole our car. She made it almost to Pittsburgh from Reading, PA before she ran out of gas. The police were zero help, they wouldn't even look for her even though she could have killed herself or someone else.
We were at our witts end. We decided to let her stay with my aunt in South Dakota. My aunt is a quadrapalegic and each of the nieces and great nieces have learned to be her nurse at some point in the teen years. It was great for Elizabeth. She was doing very well and decided to start the school year there in September. Even school was great there. My aunt however, doesn't do well in the cold so she decided to go back to California for the winter. Elizabeth was doing so well everyone thought it would be a good thing for her to go too. WRONG AGAIN!
California is like a different planet compared to SD. She was only there for two weeks, attending a private Catholic school when she met a 21 year old, married father of one. He was the son of my aunt's nurse. He left his family and took my 14 year old daughter to CANADA. No one knew what had happened or where she was, she simply vanished after school one day. It took about a week before anyone realized they were together. At first everyone just thought it was weird that they both disappeared on the same day. As far as anyone knew they had only met one time.
For three weeks she was missing. The police said she was just a runaway, even after they found out that she was with the 21 year old they didn't care because she went "willingly". The law said it was a felony, but at the time no one cared. Once we knew they left the state the FBI was supposed to be involved, but again they didn't care because she went willingly. Even after we found out they left the country, no law enforcement agency cared. I was using the Missing Kids network and calling every local law enforcement agency trying to get them to follow leads. I finally convinced the Canadian police to at least keep an eye out (it is legal to have sex at 14 in Canada!). They spotted the car at a motel and took her into protective custody but let him go.
My DH and I had to drive to Toronto on New Year's Eve to pick her up. The first thing the Child Protective agent told us was that she was pregnant. Just barely, but pregnant nonetheless. We were devastated.
We brought her home and supported her throughout her pregnancy (I was also 6 months pregnant at the time). We told her it was her decision whether or not to keep the baby. She kept her for three months and really did her best but at just 15 it was too much for her. She decided to give her up for adoption. It is an open adoption so we get updates and pictures all the time and we actually got to see her last month for the first time since she went home with her new family on Christmas Day 2003.
She still continued to get into trouble and the weird thing was whenever she was being well behaved, she was actually sneaking around getting into serious trouble. We caught her with marajuna, I called the police and turned her in. She had to attend a six week drug class.
In 2005 she had a job at a local fast food place. We dropped her off and picked her up. She was not allowed to go anywhere unsupervised. Yet she ended up pregnant again because after we would drop her off at work she would take off with a guy she met there. She was almost 17.
We decided that it was time for her to grow up and live her own life. She was old enough to make her own decisions. She and the young man were married in March and my grandson was born in September. Their life together is not easy but she is being very responsible and so far things are going well. Only time will tell.
I honestly don't know what I could have done differently with her. I think once the "cat was out of the bag" so to speak by letting her attend PS, it was all we could do to keep her alive and keep our sanity.
I don't know what wisdom I have (if any) except to say that we all do the best we can with what we have and sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't despite our best efforts. Just pray hard and trust God.
Sorry this was so long. Sometimes once I get started it is hard to stop. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. 
Good luck with your son. I will keep him and the rest of your family im my prayers. 
Your sister in Christ,
Krisann
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Leonie
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Krisann,
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
...You know, I've been thinking it may be a good idea for all we mums of teens and older ones to pray a novena together, for our young people.
What does everyone think? Anyone have a novena prayer to suggest? We can sticky it in the We Pray to the Lord forum....
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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rivendellmom
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Krisann,
Thanks for taking the time to tell us your story. I think Leonie is right in that we all should pray together for our teens, they are so vunerable to temptation in the society we live in. Now when I hear that my relatives think I'm sheltering my kids I'm glad!
Jen
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Maureen
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Molly, I have no personal advice, but I thought I'd mentioned that my sister was having trouble with her teen 3 or 4 years ago. My mother prayed (using the 54 day rosary novena that Willa mentioned) that my niece would get a better group of friends. This is exactly what happened.
My sister also sent her on a Franciscan University of Steubenville retreat which also had a great impact on her. She became active in her church youth group and went on several mini-mission trips. My niece is now in college, and has been doing great.
I will keep you in prayer, as I too, have been parenting one of my dd out of fear. I have found the Memorare to be an especially powerful and comforting prayer.
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known that anyone
who fled to your protection, implored your help,
or sought your intercession, was left unaided.
Inspired with this confidence,
I fly to you, O virgin of virgins, my mother.
To you I come, before you I stand,
sinful and sorrowful.
O mother of the Word Incarnate!
Despise not my petitions, but in your mercy
hear and answer them. AMEN.
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Maureen, mom to 8 treasures
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teachingmyown
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Krisann,
Thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry for the pain you have gone through. I just wish we could understand what makes a child go so far astray, that there was a fool-proof formula to keep them close to us and God.
I had thought homeschooling was the formula. I know now that homeschoolers are not immune. That said, though, if I could go back a year I would not make the same decision again, sending Charlie to ps. He was already difficult and then he walked into a world where grave sin is normalized and nobody thinks anything is a big deal. In my exhaustion and fear, I sent my child into the lion's den.
It's not cut and dry, and I am sure we would still have our share of trouble and sinful behavior, but he was exposed to so much. Like Krisann said "the cat was out of the bag"! There is nothing left of his innocence.
My one hope is that he is starting (I think) to see the value of confession. That is where I cannot fall down on the job now. Perhaps, he will find renewed hope through the Sacraments and through those few friends who are encouraging him to make better decisions. (Now, if they just wouldn't have these conversations over a cold beer!  )
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: We are lost!
