| Author | |
alicegunther
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1992
|
| Posted: July 27 2006 at 6:56pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Serious wrote:
Out of interests sake when do you believe that your children are old enough to read what they wish...12,16,18....21! You can't keep them under that wing for long. They resent the parents..... |
|
|
After a lifetime of guidance and open discussions about morals with parents, our children will be well qualified to select quality literature for themselves as adults. My older girls are already quite discerning. I do not share your belief that children will deceive us anyway, so we parents ought to throw up our hands and let them read whatever they like. My children have too much character for this, and, far from feeling resentful, they recognize that I respect them enough to communicate my concerns openly and consistently. My children love a good literary discussion, and these talks have been an integral part of their education for years--one that I already perceive to be bearing much fruit.
You are correct in saying that we cannot keep our children under our wing forever, but even a mother bird nurtures her little ones and teaches them to fly before pushing them out of the nest.
__________________
Love, Alice
mother of seven!
      
Cottage Blessings
Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: July 27 2006 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Dear Serious,
Not everyone here vetos magic or good old fashion fantasy. If we did, we would have to ban Shakespeare and Madeline L'Engle and lots more!...goodness, even Grimes' fairy tales, for that matter. Many of us are big fans of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy and Lewis' Narnia . 
True, in some shape or form, our children will come into contact with repulsive rubbish through the years. In a country where there is freedom of press, anyone can put a book into another's hands.
True, chances are that---at some point---if your child is given a book to read, you might not know about it. So the argument really isn't "should they" or "shouldn't they" read it, but have we equipped them to ask the right questions and recognize right and wrong.
The parent must give his child the tools to discern right from wrong, to know truth from falsehood, to know sensationalism from accurate research. We do this by being literature partners with our children.
In my stint hosting an online library site, teaching a literature class, and discussing literature with many parents and teachers and children, I have come to the conclusion that there are five different types of parents:
1) Those who regulate all reading materials with no input from their child
2) Those who oversee reading material while allowing their child's input
3) Those who allow their child to read whatever and provides the child with discussion regarding the book
4) Those who allow the child his own reading material with no censorship
5) Those who are unaware of what their child reads
More important to children than the literature they read is whether or not they have a parent who is a part of these activities with them.
I wish I had been more skeptical of literary selections during my high school/college years, but I was a book hound who followed many genres. I am fortunate that these selections never drove me away from my family, my faith. A big part of my safeguard was that my mother was my book partner in crime. We exchanged books and took turns reading them. We discussed them together.
I was never left on my own to discern what I thought the author meant; I had an adult who cared about what went into my head and tried to figure it out with me.
Children want to know that you share their interests, their joys, their life. The essence of the book will not control their lives as much as the presence of the parent who goes along on the adventure with them. In this way, you keep your child's heart and, thus, stand a better chance of keeping them from going astray.
Some ways parents can help their children discern good literature are:
* Set-up a booklist for your child with titles and topics you both agree on
* Make use of the Internet to check-out blurbs and reviews of book ahead of time
* Be an example to your child on how to discern reading material by discussing selections with him/her
* Point out the precautions of certain reading material so your child will not be left wondering why you are restricting it
I agree that forbidding an author or series can only fuel the child's interest. If your child selects a book or author you don't think is worthy of his time, it is correct for you---the parent---to guide your child to other literary pieces. Give him several to choose from. You cannot simply tell your child "No, you cannot read that book" without giving him an answer other than "Because i said so." This will only build a wall between you, your child, and the path to greater literature. You must give your child an alternative, preferably a better alternative than the book he has chosen.
When are children old enough to read what they wish? Well, my 16 yr old still goes to the bookstore with me and discusses a book before purchasing it. My 18 yr old has come across some unsavory materials through fellow employees. I hope (and believe) I have equipped him to be cautious and in-the-know before picking up stuff that is a waist of his time. How do I have this hope and belief? Because he comes home and talks to me about it. And I still find him at night reading the "Foxfire" series.
It boils down to vigilance. As parents, we must be vigilant...not vigilantes.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: July 27 2006 at 7:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
When it comes to censoring...my opinion?
It is clearly the job of the parent, NOT the government, NOT the schools, Not my well-meaning neighbors--not even my well-meaing virtual neighbors (  ). It is MY JOB to determine what is appropriate for my children, and it will change with their ages.
I once wrote that my children will read Harry Potter Critically at an age to be determined my me. We have done so, and have even found them fun reads though we are free to point out errors and major character flaws as we go. I would not have cared for my children to have been introduced to these stories without any input from me, my faith, and my world view. I feel the same about Pullman. And anyone can feel free to read the books, disagree with me, and whatever...maybe I'll suggest them to the kids at 16, 18...and, or course, when they leave home, they can read what they like. I hope they like great books!
The ultimate job of the parent is not to censor, but to aid the child in discernment. And spiritual porn is just as bad as the graphic type.
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 27 2006 at 8:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Serious wrote:
Adults/Parents can rarely judge the mental development of children.
K. Frost |
|
|
Oh, really? And just where did you pick up this little pearl of wisdom? Baloney if I ever heard it.
Serious wrote:
In this day and age if we can't accept that there is nothing wrong with having a child out of wedlock then you really shouldn't be in the 21st century.
K. Frost |
|
|
Nothing wrong with having a child out of wedlock????Are you even aware that you are on a Catholic forum? Why are you here? Really?
Obviosly I am not as tactful as the gracious women who replied to you already, but this kind of thing really steams me. Why would anyone come onto a forum with clearly stated guidelines and spout this kind of garbage if not simply to stir up trouble? Like fantasy? How about this one: I spy a troll.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Jen L.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 18 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2148
|
| Posted: July 27 2006 at 9:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I LOVE this forum!!!!
Today I'd like to extend a special Thank You to Alice, Cay, Macbeth, and Theresa!!!!! You are amazing women and the things you (and others on this forum) have to say and how you say it are the reasons that I visit at least one site every day: 4RealLearning Forums!
__________________
Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
alicegunther
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1992
|
| Posted: July 28 2006 at 7:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jen L. wrote:
I LOVE this forum!!!!
Today I'd like to extend a special Thank You to Alice, Cay, Macbeth, and Theresa!!!!! You are amazing women and the things you (and others on this forum) have to say and how you say it are the reasons that I visit at least one site every day: 4RealLearning Forums! |
|
|
Jen, you are too kind. Thank you.
As it turns out, the poster who chimed in to ask questions about parental involvement in children's reading choices is under eighteen and therefore too young to join our forum. Still, as moderator, I am inclined to leave this thread as is. Hopefully, this discussion can continue from here, because it is an interesting and important one.
__________________
Love, Alice
mother of seven!
Cottage Blessings
Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jdostalik
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2935
|
| Posted: July 28 2006 at 8:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Alice,
I agree that this discussion is very important. As parents, we have always carefully chosen and guided our children in their book selections...but as they get older, it does become more difficult...This is when all the years of loving and parenting and knowing your individual child come in to play...
An example: DD has shown an interest in WWII and the Holocaust--she wants to read Anne Frank--she's only 11--hmmm...time for prayer and discernment...
This discernment process is hard and time-consuming but well worth it!
__________________
God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Natalia
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1343
|
| Posted: July 28 2006 at 8:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Interesting thread.
Jennifer, you are right the process is hard and time consuming. If the only things to avoid were sexual issues the process will be more simple. But there are more factors involved: i.e your knowledge of the child and what he can handle. What is disturbing or scary to one child might not be for another. What you might think is not scary might be scary or disturbing to achild.
I have read some pertaining things lately:
wikepedia on
children's literature
jen's book page scroll down to the post on a Wall Street Journal article.
Here is the articleid=110008616">WSJ
Then I was reading some criteria used to select books on Ambleside .
It was interesting to read contrasting opinions.
Natalia
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 28 2006 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Natalia wrote:
What is disturbing or scary to one child might not be for another.
Natalia |
|
|
So true! For my ds it isn't violence or gore or fantasy that get s to him. It is sadness. He absolutely cannot handle those gut-wrenchingly sad kinds of things where a beloved character dies, or a pet, or something like that. And I really have to watch for that in movies for him. Blood and gore of Lord of the Rings-no problem. Harry Potter wizardry-no problem. But he actually had to walk out of Pirates of the Caribbean 2 in tears when
SPOILER!!!!
Jack is swallowed by the beastie. He just cannot handle that kind of thing as he comes to think of these characters as friends. It took me quite some time to console him and convince him that somehow Jack would be back! Who'd have thought?
We truly do have to know our own children and what they can and cannot handle.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn UK
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 924
|
| Posted: July 29 2006 at 8:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
jdostalik wrote:
DD has shown an interest in WWII and the Holocaust--she wants to read Anne Frank--she's only 11--hmmm...time for prayer and discernment...
This discernment process is hard and time-consuming but well worth it!
|
|
|
Jennifer, I know we are both heading into 20 century history with 11 year olds next year  . If my dd wants to read Anne Frank I will let her. It is a relatively easy call for me as she is not very imaginative and does not get easily distressed by what she sees or reads, so can take "heavier" material than I would give to a more imaginative child of the same age. Also, because of her Jewish heritage I feel this is something we should be tackling (my dh is Jewish, and his grandmother and other members of his father's family were lost in the holocaust). Off to add Anne Frank to my list for next year. How could I have forgotten?
__________________
Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
The Bookworm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: July 29 2006 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kathryn UK wrote:
jdostalik wrote:
DD has shown an interest in WWII and the Holocaust--she wants to read Anne Frank--she's only 11--hmmm...time for prayer and discernment...
This discernment process is hard and time-consuming but well worth it!
|
|
|
Jennifer, I know we are both heading into 20 century history with 11 year olds next year . If my dd wants to read Anne Frank I will let her. It is a relatively easy call for me as she is not very imaginative and does not get easily distressed by what she sees or reads, so can take "heavier" material than I would give to a more imaginative child of the same age. Also, because of her Jewish heritage I feel this is something we should be tackling (my dh is Jewish, and his grandmother and other members of his father's family were lost in the holocaust). Off to add Anne Frank to my list for next year. How could I have forgotten? |
|
|
Aren't there two versions of Anne Frank? I don't mean to hijack the thread. But the Anne Frank I read when I was a child didn't have se*ual references inappropriate for an 11yo. The one we have on our shelves now, does...I think...I can't find it right this minute...
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jdostalik
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2935
|
| Posted: July 29 2006 at 5:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth,
I was going to post on this--but you beat me to it! You are correct--there is a new "definitive edition" of the Diary of Anne Frank. This is the one that is most easily found in the local library and at your local bookstore. I just discovered the difference in the versions as I was doing research for our history studies this coming school year...
Here is a review from Publishers' Weekly (from Amazon):
"From Publishers Weekly
This startling new edition of Dutch Jewish teenager Anne Frank's classic diary?written in an Amsterdam warehouse, where for two years she hid from the Nazis with her family and friends?contains approximately 30% more material than the original 1947 edition. It completely revises our understanding of one of the most moving and eloquent documents of the Holocaust. The Anne we meet here is much more sarcastic, rebellious and vulnerable than the sensitive diarist beloved by millions. She rages at her mother, Edith, smolders with jealous resentment toward her sister, Margot, and unleashes acid comments at her roommates. Expanded entries provide a fuller picture of the tensions and quarrels among the eight people in hiding. Anne, who died in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in March 1945, three months before her 16th birthday, candidly discusses her awakening sexuality in entries that were omitted from the 1947 edition by her father, Otto, the only one of the eight to survive the death camps. He died in 1980. This crisp, stunning translation provides an unvarnished picture of life in the "secret annex." In the end, Anne's teen angst pales beside her profound insights, her self-discovery and her unbroken faith in good triumphing over evil. Photos not seen by PW.
Copyright 1995 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition. "
My guess would be that we need to find the older 1947 edition that we read as children.
__________________
God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kathryn UK
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 924
|
| Posted: July 30 2006 at 3:21am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I didn't know that! Thanks for the heads up! Have a feeling I have an old version on my shelf ...
__________________
Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
The Bookworm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Philip Pullman/Sally Lockhart books
