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Helen
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Thank you very much for the compliments. I have a longer post that I have sketched out, it will have to wait for later for me to type it up.
I think Elizabeth expressed well my intention. I am not suggesting "letting oneself go." It is more of an unhealthy attachment to body image. One that is totally fostered in our culture. Magazine covers have, in my opinion, almost unattainable beauty goals. Who doesn't feel that they have "let themselves go" (by giving a body over to childbearing, an excellent thing to do) when looking at one of those covers?
Sarah made a great point about the "everyday skirts". There are definitely skirts that you just don't mind if they are used as a napkin (while you have them on  ).
I love to weed in a skirt. Probably because the garden isn't my domain and weeding is my contribution. But, to go out there, feel the wind, sit in the lawn or kneel in the grass and pull up some weeds, is great. (I don't do the big digging etc.) I wish some people I knew would also offer me the same favor of weeding in a skirt instead of shorts and a tank top.  I have to lower my blinds sometimes 
If one uses a slip, not only does this enhance the beauty and modesty of a skirt, it lessens the amount of laundry. (In fact, I've found that a slip helps me to choose a more modest skirt. If I can wear a slip, good chance the skirt is modest.)
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JennGM
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Helen wrote:
| If one uses a slip, not only does this enhance the beauty and modesty of a skirt, it lessens the amount of laundry. (In fact, I've found that a slip helps me to choose a more modest skirt. If I can wear a slip, good chance the skirt is modest.) |
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Ah, slips! Those were the bane of my existence in the summer when I would wear skirts. I would pick lovely flowing cotton skirts to catch the breeze and feel cool and then have to wear some manmade non-breathable very hot slip for modesty. Any sources for a comfortable slip?
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Willa
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Helen wrote:
| I think Elizabeth expressed well my intention. I am not suggesting "letting oneself go." It is more of an unhealthy attachment to body image. One that is totally fostered in our culture. Magazine covers have, in my opinion, almost unattainable beauty goals. Who doesn't feel that they have "let themselves go" (by giving a body over to childbearing, an excellent thing to do) when looking at one of those covers? |
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One thing I've noticed about my daughter's decision to wear skirts and dresses is that she has learned not to let these almost unattainable beauty goals, that Helen mentioned, poison her approach to her health and her looks. Wearing the jeans that teens wear today, EVERYONE short of Kate Moss looks a bit pudgy and sloppy. Clare just doesn't go there, so the way she measures her eating and exercise is for the purpose of health and natural feminine beauty, not to imitate the skinny pre-teen forms that are unrealistically modelled nowadays as the ideal.
My daughter is not the least bit overweight, either. She's right in the middle of the healthy percentile for her age and height.
I think for people like me who grew up in the 70's (the first time the hip-hugging jeans came around ) it's very hard not to have a false idea of what a woman's body ought to look like.
I assume that this is what Helen is talking about. ME, I KNOW I used to use my jeans as a monitor to keep my weight down and I would use the one-size-down jeans to lose more weight than I really needed to lose for health's sake (I've always been normal- to under-weight).. This was NOT a good, natural, wholesome way to approach it, at least not for me. It played into a lot of control-freak and eating-disorder issues I've had since adolescence.
I'm still struggling a bit because the skirts do cover more than the jeans and my subconscious takes it as a license to get away with letting myself go more, but see, that's a problem with ME, not with the dresses. My daughter does not have this problem because she never played that game in the first place.
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Willa
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StephanieA
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an unhealthy obsession with weight it makes more sense. I don't think she's suggesting that we let ourselves go, only that a daily obsession with the scale isn't healthy. For what it's worth, Helen really is lovelyand not a bit frumpy.[/QUOTE]
Hey, Helen, you do look great! I know I need to learn to "think outside the box." When I went skirts only in the very beginning, I didn't think outside the box, I thought dressy skirts for Mass, etc. and jean skirts for home and other everyday activities. The jean skirt scenario was overkill and I just didn't think - DUH! - look for something else for home! I hardly ever saw my grandmothers (born 1901 and 1915) and great aunt and elderly mother-in-law wear dresses or skirts, but I am sure they did as children. My mother wears them all the time and always looks great. As a older teen she went to finishing school/ modeling school, and she always seems to know what looks stunning and feminine. (Although she did have several sets of scuz pants that she wore painting, etc. when she was remodeling houses - which she did plenty of when I was growing up.)
I shop for my everyday clothes at used clothes stores which seem to have multiplied over the last few years around here. So I shouldn't have a huge problem finding nice skirts that I wouldn't mind soiling a bit. Then again, there's always Ebay.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Rebecca
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JennGM wrote:
Ah, slips! Those were the bane of my existence in the summer when I would wear skirts. I would pick lovely flowing cotton skirts to catch the breeze and feel cool and then have to wear some manmade non-breathable very hot slip for modesty. Any sources for a comfortable slip? |
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Jenn,
I am, astonishingly, wearing my mother's cotton slips that she wore during the 1960's . They are very well made and she only wore them now and then. She keeps everything so when I complained of being hot a few summers ago while wearing a polyester slip, she gave me her cotton ones.
Here are some that are similar. Also, the Vermont Country Stores sells some here. I think the cotton is the trick, no sweating, just like wearing a handkerchief!
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Alice R
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I wear skirts most of the time and grew up that way. Sometimes I clean and stuff in sweatpants. I do own two pairs of pants.
If you are looking for more messy kinda skirts you can always use a denium jumper. Probably not the most trendy-however-it is sturdy, excellent for breastfeeding and will wear a long long time. I got a few nice denium overall jumpers from Eddie Bauer years ago and the have worn well. You can also use cullottes (spelling?) for your young girls.
I have a few links...i will find them and post them later!
Blessings,
Alice R
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Alice R
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Ok, found some for you to look at. The sites are from all different denominations. I have personally ordered from Hannahlise and they were fine.
Modest Apparel USA
Hannah Lise
Waldsfe
Stanosheck
4 modesty
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Dawn
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Rebecca wrote:
| Also, the Vermont Country Stores sells some here. I think the cotton is the trick, no sweating, just like wearing a handkerchief! |
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I love The Vermont Country Store! Dh and I used to go there every fall and have lunch next door at the Bryant House (grilled maple ham and VT cheddar sandwiches and steaming pumpkin soup - mmmm!) ... sorry getting off topic (I must be hungry for supper ).
Anyway! What I wanted to say is I also love the clothing they sell there. Very pretty dresses and skirts. Lots of "old-fashioned" styles that appeal to me.
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LisaD
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Dawn wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
| Also, the Vermont Country Stores sells some here. I think the cotton is the trick, no sweating, just like wearing a handkerchief! |
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Vermont Country Store sells cotton batiste culotte slips which are wonderful for hot and humid summer days when you don't want your legs sticking together. Very light-weight and cool!
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Mama to dd(99), ds(01), ds(03) and ds(06)
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Helen
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For me, personally, I didn't like the Vermont country store cotton slips. I generally like their things. But the slips that I bought were not cut on the bias, didn't "give" and were extremely hot (and were expensive to boot.)
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Ave Maria!
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amiefriedl
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Helen wrote:
| For me, personally, I didn't like the Vermont country store cotton slips. I generally like their things. But the slips that I bought were not cut on the bias, didn't "give" and were extremely hot (and were expensive to boot.) |
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I understand about the "give" part. If a piece of modest clothing has the word spandex in it I'm usually thrilled.
Okayyyy...what does work for a slip then?
Just yesterday I tore off my skirt for my favorite pair of capris due to the suffocating polyester slip that was under it. These cotton slips sounded like the answer. What to do?
Oh and Willa - those were some awesome observations. Thanks to everyone Helen, Elizabeth, Sarah and all for the thread - these considerations have been in my mind a fair bit.
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Amie
Blessed with an awesome hubby and Mom of ds10, dd7, dd3 and dd 10months.
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BrendaPeter
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Helen wrote:
| For me, personally, I didn't like the Vermont country store cotton slips. I generally like their things. But the slips that I bought were not cut on the bias, didn't "give" and were extremely hot (and were expensive to boot.) |
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I have also been disappointed with a cotton slip I purchased from Elegance. It was very narrow so that I had to cut almost all the way up the sides. I still use it and it's still very practical, however, this summer I will be sewing myself a cotton batiste bias slip. Other than that, I love everything else I've ever bought from Elegance.
I've been extremely pleased with Walmart these days (although I know some of you do not shop there). I've accumulated a collection of very inexpensive prairie skirts that I will probably be wearing well-past the time this particular fad peters out. The denim one is my uniform. I find I am comfortable doing anything in a skirt - from cleaning the bathtub to playing badminton with my kids - AS LONG AS the skirt is full.
In regard to elastic-waisted skirts I've discovered they are just so much more practical than slacks - particularly jeans. I remembering owning everything from size 6 to size 14 jeans to accommodate my growing & shrinking middle during & after pregnancy - not to mention maternity jeans. Maybe that's why skirts are so scarce in the fashion world  . I've even been able to use regular elastic-waisted skirts throughout my pregnancies.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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StephanieA wrote:
I shop for my everyday clothes at used clothes stores which seem to have multiplied over the last few years around here. So I shouldn't have a huge problem finding nice skirts that I wouldn't mind soiling a bit. Then again, there's always Ebay.
Blessings,
Stephanie |
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This is a great idea! I have a friend who's bought tons of skirts for $3.00 at Goodwill. Most of them are brand new & quite beautiful!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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aussieannie
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Helen, what do you think of 'pants' (there is a name for them but I don't know what you call them in the States) that are to the ankle, extremely loose and flowy, femine patterned and coloured, and when you are standing straight look like a skirt - the reason I ask is that some women are talking about the times when skirts can present 'immodest' occasions when we are very active in some way and I really value your postings and therefore would appreciate your comment - or anyone's for that matter as you have all spoken so well.
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Leonie
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I find that wearing pants/trousers/jeans makes me a more active type of mum - I jump around more with my boys, I play light sabre fights, I skateboard ( well, attempt to), I run, we have push up contests.
I did not do a lot of those things in my dresses/skirts only phase ( many years ago now). I felt less free and more constricted. I felt I was trying to reach someone else's idea of femininity and womanhood .
And my dh likes the jeans. He likes the active wife - and the kids seem to like the more active mum.
Is this because I have all boys?
I hope I am not a dissenting voice here - just really sharing part of my experience. And I would never encourage someone to stop wearing all skirts/dresses if that is where they feel lead.
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lapazfarm
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I feel the same way as Leonie. We have a very active outdoorsy bunch here-boys and girls. We work the horses (ride and longe line), muck stalls and other barn chores, toss around hay bales, mend fences and fix gates, etc on a daily basis. And when I garden it isn't about pulling a weed here and there, it is about getting out the tiller and turning over sod, hauling manure piles from the barn, and digging raised beds. And this does not even include the impromptu soccer matches and hikes to play in the creek. My life is just not made for skirts and I don't think it will be for awhile. At least I hope not as my kids and dh like me this way! Maybe when I am too old for these things I can think about skirts!
Like Leonie, also, I have nothing against those who wear skirts all the time. I think it is an awesome way to be a woman. But just not the only way.  The world needs many examples of ways to be a Godly woman.
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JSchaaf
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Ok, here's my problem. Please delete if this gives TMI.
I have big belly. So those cute dresses that tie in the back and/or have an Empire waist make me look about 6 months along. My chest and rear are large too. While dresses don't cling, they definitely accentuate my size. Pants and a loose shirt that skims over my chest and covers my middle seem to "hide" the excess weight.
Maybe it's not dresses I need, but skirts and tops? Any good online sources?
I'm trying to lose weight. It's just taking forever!
Jennifer
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lapazfarm
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You and I must be related, Jennifer. I'm on the heavy side, too, and dresses either make me look pregnant (I wish...) or like a walking tent! I find dress slacks much more slimming.
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Taffy
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Leonie, Theresa and Jennifer...
Thank-you! for posting my thoughts here so well. I could have written either of your posts. I totally agree with you! 
for those of you who wear dresses full-time though!
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Helen
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StephanieA wrote:
But I can't agree the reason I would wear a skirt has anything to do with Mary's request at Fatima or what she wore. |
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When I said “I have a hard time getting around…”
Perhaps I should have said...
In my simple devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary where I see myself as literally her child, I try to imitate her in all things, as a child studies her mother and walks around wearing her shoes, I look at my Heavenly Mother and see her always in a dress. I can’t get around that idea.
Our Lady didn't specify a certain style that will greatly offend the Lord. Since I'm not exactly sure which style she is referring to, I've decided to take the cautious view.
StephanieA wrote:
I was very interested in this several years back and of course, bought a book  by Fr. Daniel-Rops that explained a bit what Mary and Jesus would have worn. Basically men and women wore about the same thing: a saq |
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The Lord is perfect and chose the perfect time (the fullness of time) to manifest Himself to the world. He chose the time of the Roman Empire. Catholic text books speak of the importance of the Roman Empire and its excellent road system, unified language, and Pax Romana which were important catalysts for spreading Christianity. Catholic text books say this is not accident.
So, then I pose this question:
Is it an accident that the Lord manifested Himself as True God and True Man in a time and culture which did not admit slacks?
I don’t see accidents in God’s plan. I take it very seriously the things He did and said. I’m not going to just say “He was a product of His environment.”
Rather, I am a product of my environment and I have to be constantly aware of how my environment is molding me, blinding me to the truth of what Christ taught.
One of the problems with a modesty discussion is the application of the principles. I think modesty is very similar to “end of life” discussions which have these Catholic guidelines:
Catholics must use ordinary means
Extraordinary means are applied on a case to case basis.
Modesty issues are the same. There is one modesty rule:
Thou must be modest.
Application … more difficult to interpret and apply.
A sweater in the summer would not be modest. The same sweater in winter would be modest. This is obvious and non controversial.
But, why does any other modesty question bring up so much controversy?
1. Peer pressure
2. cultural norms
3. purity
How do we decide what is the truth? How so we discern true modesty?
St. Thomas Aquinas’ definition of truth:
Truth is the conformity of the mind to reality.
How do we learn about reality to conform ourselves to it?
We perceive reality through our five senses. What we see, hear, touch, taste, and smell provides the basis for our observations of reality. Once we perceive reality, the trick is to conform ourselves to it to find truth. Once the information enters the brain through the senses we have to also keep in mind our darkened intellects.
Purity is especially difficult to perceive the truth, the reality of because of original sin, actual sin, and our culture.
Our culture force feeds us with impure images everywhere and constantly. This is not an exaggeration. Billboards, news reports, radio, music, magazine covers. Almost every sales pitch nowadays involves innuendo.
Personally, I doubt my own ability to practice true purity in this day and age. Sure if I compare myself to the mainstream “neighbor” or Catholic – sure, I practice purity. But, when I compare myself to the Immaculate – do I even come close? For this reason, I work on modesty seriously.
My goal: The pure of heart shall see the face of God.
I honestly don’t want to miss this goal. If I overdo it, wear skirts all the time and I don’t “have to”, will this extra effort go to waste? It won’t if I’m offering it up, making an effort to please the Lord, looking for Him, pursuing virtue, imitating the Blessed Virgin Mary.
This is a win/win situation in my eyes.
"We know that when it comes to light we shall be like him,
for we shall see him as he is.
Everyone who has this hope based on him
keeps himself pure, as he is pure."
I John 3:3
Clothing is definitely culturally biased. If your values are not reflected in the culture, why should the culture's clothing reflect your values?
StephanieA wrote:
I think the real reason we should encourage more skirt-wearing is not modesty, but femininity. If it were a modesty issue, I would have a really tough time EVER wearing a swimming suit, even a modest one. However you try to justify it, you are exposing much more than you would with a decently long pair of shorts. |
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Stephanie this is extremely logical conclusion.
When I speak to my family members about this issue, I ask them to imagine a person from a hundred years ago being magically transported to one of our modern beaches. Just imagine the reaction –
Would the time traveler die of shame?
Bury his head in the sand?
Shriek in shock?
How would he react?
Let's compare our reaction to this situation.
Well, everyone is walking around in basically their underwear, there is nothing I can do about it, I will just go along with the culture and bring my children too.
Is this how we react to other issues in which our faith is tried by the culture? Oh well, can’t do anything about it, I’ll just expose my children to it. (Obviously this is NOT the reaction of the wonderful homeschooling families who participate on this message board!)
So, your statement is truly logical. Is EVER wearing any of the modern bathing suits, even “more modest” ones ever truly modest?
But who has the courage to say:
You know what – the emperor has NO clothes on?
Who has the courage to say?
No, it is never acceptable to go anywhere clad in your underwear even if everyone else is doing it.
A holy priest, one of 23 children, altar boy to Padre Pio who became a priest and received spiritual direction from Padre Pio says:
“[T]o protect the life of grace and reinforce it with mortification effectively eliminating all the occasions of sin. For this it is necessary to avoid in particular pornography, indecent styles, lascivious music, the beaches, the discotheques and practically all television transmissions.... Today, more than ever, against the culture of obscene images, of the noise and rhythm of rock, of material well being, of permissiveness - all need the mortification of the senses with the guarding of the eyes and the heart, with self denial so as “to chastise one’s own body and bring it into subjection” (l Cor 9, 27)”
Father Stefano Manelli, FI, founder
This comes from the Marian Seraphic Pathways the rule book of the Third Order Franciscans. As a consequence, Our family does not go to the beaches and does not wear modern bathing suits. I wrote about my bathing suit here.
StephanieA wrote:
I actually don't go to public places in a swimming suit anymore anyway. I got sick of taking my kids to the public pool because of the language, poor behavior, and the immodest dress, so we are installing a cheap above-ground pool in our yard this year. |
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May the Lord reward you!!
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Skirts and virtue
