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Betsy
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| Posted: Jan 02 2015 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| Do all of these imply that everyone needs healing? Or is this for people who are searching and hurting? |
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I agree with Sally, but from the conference that I attended it was brought up that everyone needs healing because we are all sinners. Sin wounds us, and keeps us form God and we all need to be healed of that. So, from that aspect it's for everyone!
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SallyT
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I think an important distinction -- at least as far as I'm understanding these two programs -- is that Be Healed is basically like a really extended, in-depth, past-trauma-targeted examination of conscience. Betsy's testimony about her husband's going to Confession illustrates what -- it seems to me -- the ultimate end of this program/process is: healing through the reception of the Sacraments. Maybe they do claim that everyone needs *this* preparation to make a really healing Confession -- I don't know. Maybe there's more to it than that -- I don't know. Either I haven't gotten that far, or I've blipped over it. Either way, I haven't felt that there was pressure to do *this* program -- or else!
Now, I may be understanding this incompletely, because I haven't finished the book and haven't attended one of these seminars. And I know that there's a good bit of charismatic influence here, so that the Holy Spirit is seen to be working in these extra-sacramental ways (people speaking in tongues, miraculous physical healings and so on). BUT it seems that the momentum is toward the sacraments, ultimately.
This seems very different from the impetus of Fr. Yozefu's program, which is oriented towards a "para-liturgy" in which the healing is supposed to take place. I have witnessed one of these, incidentally, kind of by accident -- it happened in the church between an evening Mass I had attended and choir practice. I know that people do this long preparation, reading the book and praying, and presumably (I would imagine?) they go to Confession as part of that preparation, but the healing is supposed to take place in this para-liturgy. At least, that's what I've seen claimed in people's testimonies. So the emphasis -- at least from my admittedly cursory observation -- seems to be less on the sacraments and more on this sort of specialty ritual.
Again, as I said many posts ago, I do not want to disparage anyone's experience with that program. Other people have done it and claimed that miraculous healings came from it; I haven't done it and am in no position to speak to that. But my instinct is to distance myself from anything that sees demons under every rock, or gives them more power than they really have, or cultivates a spirit of fearfulness in the faithful.
So Jenn, this may answer more than you were asking, and Betsy, this may or may not be an accurate clarification, but as far as I can see right now, this is a major difference between how these two programs approach sin and our need for healing from it.
Sally
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MaryM
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| Posted: Jan 05 2015 at 1:42am | IP Logged
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Just saw this link today on New Advent - just issued this week - Official Statement of the Fathers of Mercy on “Healing of Families”.
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Betsy
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Mary,
Thank you for posting that response from the Fathers of Mercy. It was very well written and does and excellent job pointing out the errors AND why people have received healing from using the book/methods.
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JennGM
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| Posted: Jan 05 2015 at 3:42pm | IP Logged
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That is such a well-written statement from the Fathers of Mercy. Thanks, Mary. The points about suffering and gnosticism particularly resonate with me.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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| Posted: Jan 05 2015 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Betsy wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| Do all of these imply that everyone needs healing? Or is this for people who are searching and hurting? |
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I agree with Sally, but from the conference that I attended it was brought up that everyone needs healing because we are all sinners. Sin wounds us, and keeps us form God and we all need to be healed of that. So, from that aspect it's for everyone! |
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Yes, we all need healing because we are sinners, but that is what Christ came to save us all. We have the Church with Her sacraments and grace which provide that healing. On the surface I'm just uncomfortable if there seems to be someone who is selling a new way to heal when all the "components" are already here.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Betsy
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| Posted: Jan 07 2015 at 7:46am | IP Logged
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Jenn and to anyone else I am going to try to quickly respond to your comment and hope that I can do this topic justice for the book Be Healed and the conferences by Bob Schuchts and the John Paul II Healing Center.
I want to begin by reiterating what was mentioned in previous threads. The JPII Healing Center is very much in line with the Catholic Church and her teachings and Magisterium! In many instance I felt as if I was commenting in previous posts on defending their adherence to the Church in light of the Fr. Yozufe’s. Perhaps this gave a skewed view of this ministry and their focus.
On one hand you could say, there is nothing new in the book. But this would be similar to saying that when a dogma is defined it was always there at the beginning but now new light or depth has been shown on it. I think the Holy Spirit is working very profoundly through Bob to help all of us, a few generations of people that have been very wounded by the traumas that our modern culture provides. He draws profoundly on the sound doctrine of the Faith, but brings his knowledge as a 20+ year practicing councilor and personal experience as someone who was deeply wounded by his parents divorce.
For me, his approach was a God Send. I had know for years that I had baggage from my childhood and more recent life events but I couldn’t get over it. I had prayed, been to Mass and Confession but I couldn’t seem to quell the dark thought that bombarded my mind all of the time. But, with what I learned through this book and the conferences coupled with the help of the prayer teams I was able to connect the dots have learn a way to let these things go.
Again in contrast to Fr. Yozufe’s books the focus seems to be on physical healing and generational healing. And, as the Father’s of Mercy, response brought out there seems to be a complete disregard to the idea that God may be Divinely orchestrating these trials for our Salvation.
Again, in direct response to that my comments may have not fully represented who the John Paul II healing center’s approach is different. The main focus of their work is to get to the core issues that are causing problems in our life, weather it be physical, emotional or spiritual. Which I think it really important. Like peeling back the layers of the onion. Once these traumas or core issues are identified, there is a need to work though the lies that we have believed from others, the lies that we have told our self and the inner vows that we have made. This aspect is what I think is so profound and powerful in their ministry. The book goes into much more depth and explanation about these ideas, but the crux of it is that these lies and vows are a double edge sword. First, they keep the trauma alive in our life and never let it heal AND this is the way we let the evil one in our life - so not “devil around every corner” or “a sin of my forefathers that I can’t escape” but a real tangible way we participate, even if not completely concisely.
The “tools” used to stop perpetuating the lies and vows and to truly let the traumas heel are simple and powerful. It’s renouncing the lie/vow in the name of Jesus and asking the Holy Spirit to replace it with healing. This is simple, but powerful. And, again, in contrast to Fr. Yozufe’s book not necessarily a one time deal and I am healed for life. You will be healed of that issue, but we have a life long battle to not make new lies and vows and fight off temptations of falling in to the same patterns in our life in the future. Much like in going to Confession truly does forgive us our sins but, at least for me, I have to return again because I have fallen away from God again and I need to be healed.
I think that the book Be Healed does a better job of going into depth on this. And the conferences are an amazing opportunity to work with prayers teams to help uncover things that are at the core that we may not even be fully aware of.
And the fruits are amazing. Really amazing. Again to use my dh. After we went to the first conference together he had some profound healing. Immediately after he felt different and a veil had been lifted in his life. The follow week he told a Priest that he has been meeting with about it and he was amazed and said, “You have had a conversion!”. But, again, with how profound that first weekend was (and it was) he feel into the trap of thinking that he didn’t need to do anything then after he was healed. This healing is like Jesus healing in the Bible. His main focus of healing was spiritual healing and often the physical would follow, but then the person healed needed to pick up his mat and follow Jesus!
I also want to mention that with my dh when we went back for a second visit with Bob and the prayer team that despite the amazing experience of the first conference my dh was still not at the core issues. And, these core issue, really surprised me. First that I knew the “fruits” of the core issues dead on but second was that they truly had deep generational roots that sort of shocked us both. And, I am going to mention this to bring the point home that this isn’t a magic bullet type of approach either is that for about two weeks my dh really need to grapple with *wanting* to renounce these core issues and beliefs. He had physically said the words, but on a deeper level he wasn’t ready to leave these ideas and beliefs that he had built his identity and pride around. Eventually he was able to (and that was part of the witness I gave in a previous post) and since then I have seen literally a entirely new man. And for those who know what I have been through in the last few months is saying quite a bit!
Okay, again this is quite a long post, but I hope that it give better insight to the work of the John Paul II healing center and their approach to healing. I am not sure if I have done it justice in writing but I know that it has changed the coarse of my life and marriage!
ETA: I just edited my post because I realized that I cut the bottom of it off when cutting and pasting. 
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When handcrafting my work, I always pray that it will raise your heart to all that is true, modest, just, holy, lovely and good fame!
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anitamarie
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Betsy, I just want to say thank you for elaborating. That was very informative and helpful. Thanks for taking the time.
God Bless,
Anita
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Generational Healing/Healing of Families?
