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Angie Mc
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I'll attempt to answer your questions together.
My world is very real, Kathryn! My husband works many and long hours and is not always readily available. He expects them to behave properly when his not physically home. He expects me to not let our children derail me from our duties. While, I by nature, am more strict than my husband, I trust that his call (even if it seems lenient to me) is the call.
We have a "Heat List," as in "How much do I need to turn up the heat before you to what is right? You can choose to do what is right now or I'll need to turn up the heat." The list is customized according to each child's favorite things - their "currency" as stated above (love that!)
The list starts off small and quick. Then it grows. Our goal as a family is to help the child to respond to early signs such as a "look" from me, or a verbal reminder. But if they miss them, then we turn up the heat, starting low to high. If all else fails, they can literally stay in their room until dad gets home - whether that is a few hours or a week. Or they can go be with another adult to collect themselves. It's up to them and when put in those kind of terms - that through their behaviors they are choosing their outcomes - they learn how to choose well.
You shared this, "it seems you need something productive to do besides being sneaky or being wired to an electronic so you can write xxx from xxx". This might seem like a subtle difference, but it really is powerful. Instead of saying "you are sneaky, you are wired to electronics" you can say, "that is sneaky behavior, that is an attachment to electronics." If kids get it in their brains that parents are disappointed in them and that their person is labeled "sneaky" "liar" "addict" then the likelihood of despair is high. If a family can attack certain poor "behaviors" together, then even problems can be relationship building. For example, you could say, "I see you're very attached to these electronics. I know what that's like because I find myself on the computer too long sometimes. Let's see if we can work out something that helps you to enjoy some time on the electronics but then you can move onto other things. I use a time when I'm on the computer and that really helps me. I also use the computer as a reward, after I've done my chores. Which do you think would be most helpful to you?"
Great chatting with you all this week, ladies! See you all next Wednesday 
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mackfam
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Scenario:
Kathryn wrote:
| So, practically speaking, when DS takes the remote at 9:30 in the AM...what would I do? When all these behaviors pop up thru out the day, I would love to delegate discipline but not sure how that is practical. ?? |
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Lay the groundwork - Tonight!!!!
Sit down with dh and Angie's list. Say: "I need help." Agree that actions earn consequences. Taking the remote from your room is wrong and ds knows it. The kitchen is not open 24 hours a day, and you've explained that. The wii and computer are privileges, not entitlements. What are the simple consequences for these actions? Your husband CAN brainstorm this with you. Make a list of consequences if it helps you both. >> If *this* THEN *this*.<<
Next day
DAD can explain that DAD has come up with a list of consequences for the behaviors that seem to consistently break known rules. (Expect look of bewilderment and disbelief...and ignore it...HE KNOWS!!) Dad continues matter-of-factly: "All that you see in front of you belongs to ME. EVERYTHING. And, out of love, I have given it all to your mother to use with you and your sisters. You may not invade our privacy, you may not have 24 hour access to the kitchen, you may not enjoy the privileges in this home without showing respect and completing your responsibilities.
If you break the rules of this home, there will be a consequence. If needed, I will take care of that consequence when I get home. (like removing his door) If it is clear you are in need of purposeful work, I have provided a list so that your mom will be able to delegate that work to you, but *I* will check the work when I get home."
During the day - ds goes into your room, takes the remote and you find him on the couch, eating and watching tv.
Say: ""I see that the TV was turned on with the remote. It was in my room so that you wouldn't have free access to the TV. You invaded my privacy. Dad explained that if you did that you would lose the privilege of your privacy. I'll have him remove the door to your room when he gets home (although...it's not that hard to do! Pop those three pins up with a screwdriver and a hammer and viola!! Just sayin!!  ). The door is mine for the week. At the end of the week, if you've shown respect for dad and my belongings, I'll offer the privilege of privacy back to you. For now, it's clear you are in need of productive work. Please go do _______fill in the blank from your and dh's list_______"
When you encounter behavior that is wrong, you do as little talking as possible - you're really just carrying out dad's wishes. Son and dad will work together later that day. No lecturing and exhausting measures. Son had a job - dad checks it, and holds him accountable.
Later that day
Give dh a simple heads up if you can that son did "x" and you gave him the consequence of "y".
At some point in the near future
Brainstorm another list with dh. How does this child give and receive love? Does he need words of affirmation? Physical affection and touching? (I'm amazed how important this is for boys and dads - especially at this age!! Lots of good natured wrestling and light hearted punching COUNTS!!) Maybe one-on-one personal attention from dad? Identify his love language and then (you, but ESPECIALLY DAD!) fill his love tank ALONGSIDE your new firm, dad-centric approach. You can brainstorm ways to do that together, too.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 05 2014 at 8:09pm | IP Logged
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Cross-posting with Angie!  
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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mamaslearning
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I saw a program about sleep eating a long time ago. It is apparently a true condition, much like sleep walking. If you suspect this, I would speak to a medical professional.
I am praying for you! I have a friend with several high-energy children, not too far off of what you describe, but younger in age. Nothing short of a bank safe keeps them out of off-limit items.
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
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Kathryn
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Oh, I had a long reply typed out and lost it.  So, I'll try and redo but on a smaller scale.
Anyway, I will print out the suggestions. I do like the one about changing the subtle wording used in approaching the misbehavior and will be more diligent about that, Angie.
Jen, in reading your reply, I'm thinking...wait a minute...I've done that. Obviously I've been here before.  In all honestly, DH and I have attempted some of these suggestions before and what happens is one of 2 things. DH doesn't follow through OR blows his top. Usu. he's not an angry person and I know he's stressed at work but then I end up mad and/or frustrated b/c I feel like I parent this child that requires an enormous amount of parenting ALONE. DH gets defensive, I just keep moving forward w/o a whole lot of help and the cycle starts again when I get to the end of my rope. I've mentioned that if his job is so stressful, maybe it's time to consider a change. I know that's not easy but the lack of support and really most esp. in regards to this discipline issue has caused a tremendous strain but I suppose that's a whole other issue.
I will still plan to use some of the other suggestions about more "productive" work for him besides just sentence writing. We do have a 1 acre property now with chickens and a very messy workbench I could have him sort through. Plus bought a jump rope at Christmas I need to find!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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A boy that age will respond better if you give him "man work". Chopping or moving/stacking wood, digging for some reason (garden?), cleaning the outside windows where he needs to use a step ladder, mowing or weed eating. And where it is "hard physical labor". They actually feel better when they've worked hard, it's not just using up energy.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 06 2014 at 11:49pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
Jen, in reading your reply, I'm thinking...wait a minute...I've done that. Obviously I've been here before. In all honestly, DH and I have attempted some of these suggestions before
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Fantastic that you've already laid the groundwork! It may take LOTS of tries as you guys work together at this.
>> Brainstorm-stretch-implement-observe---agree to meet again two nights later ---brainstorm-stretch-implement -observe--again-ad nauseum! <<
This is definitely a try-try-again game!!
Kathryn wrote:
| DH doesn't follow through |
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Start there. Ask dh if you can help him follow through. What can you do to make the way smooth? Set alarms? Email him weekly? Text him on his way home? Help dh with this! This is important to you, important for ds, and you might just need to work with one of your strengths to help dh in this area. This is one of the areas my dh and I work hard on because his strong suit is not in the follow through, but he will if I help him with reminders and key words.
This could be because he comes home and it's all in his face all at once. You can help him by sending him a quick email outline of the day so that dh can give things some thought on his drive home. I really think men need time to think on things, weigh them, consider them...before they respond. If they don't have this time to consider, they tend to have to form a quick judgment which is frustrating and almost always results in raw emotions. See if a daily/every-other-day email helps - just a simple, outline blurb-type email keeping dh in the loop.
-------------------------------------------------
My husband and I have very different temperaments and brainstorming challenges like this and then implementing stretches us BOTH! We NEVER get it the first time...and usually not the second or third. We've learned a few things that we try to do that work with both of our strengths when we're tackling big challenges that need ongoing maintenance:
** I introduce the challenge. Sometimes this is in the form of a big-fat vent. Then, I take a breath, and break down the problem again - more outline, less emotion this time. If our time is really stretched thin (especially if I need to talk with him and be able to do it without all the emotion I know I'll have), I give myself permission to vent in the shower, and let myself have a good, long cry - then I can be more focused on helping him see the outline of the problem minus a little of my emotion (since I'm so close to it). We sketch out a simple, basic plan and agree that we'll meet again to address things that are/aren't working. I've learned that if I really need HIM to stretch and help me in a certain way, I've got to spell it out honestly and with a minimum of emotion. It helps him process. And if I need to underline something, I do. Example (from some of our past conversations):Me: I really need you to check in with ds each day. I need this. I am in the trenches here, and I can lose perspective. I need your observations to help me and I really think ds needs you and your involvement on a regular basis.
Him: Ok, I'll try to remember.
Me: I know you're busy, and it's easy to get swept up in stuff around here when you get home and then forget...or run out of time. This is very important to me. What can I do to either give you a neutral reminder word or to make it easier for you to remember?
Him: I think I'll add an alarm to my phone to alarm 2 hours after I get home.
Me: I'm concerned about that timing. I think it would be better if you check in with our son closer to the time you arrive home. That gives more time to follow up later in the evening.
Him: Ok, I'll move my alarm up, and if you need me to check in earlier or something else is going on, email or text me to give me a heads up.
Me: Ok - we'll try that.
Me (again...heehee): I also really need you to be encouraging AND firm when you talk to ds. I try to be encouraging and neutral during the day and just implement the consequences you and I agree on...but it gets exhausting and he needs to hear your voice in this. When you check with him each day, can you check in, mention one good thing, then hold him accountable, and finally encourage him for the next day. In that order?
Him: Sure, that's a good idea.
Me: Ok - so notice something good -- then hold him accountable -- and then encourage. Ok? Good-Accountable-Encourage. Those are your words.
Him: Got it.
(And then...I actually text him those three words for his drive home! But it really helps dh stay focused on our game plan!) On this particular challenge, we ended up meeting with each other about 6 or 7 times with COUNTLESS email communications in between - we/I confided, brainstormed, considered, prayed, planned and planned again. I would help dh focus with those key words (because like you, Kathryn, I knew his time was valuable and he was busy shouldering his load at work, which is often very heavy). The key words are a BIG help for dh - helps him stay focused and not get lost in a tangent problem (and there's ALWAYS a tangent challenge!!!) And it really helped dh (and me) when I was clear (with a minimum of words) in telling him EXACTLY how I needed help.
** We agree after that first talk to meet again in a week and re-evaluate. He always brings something to write on and take notes because he works better like that. When we agree to meet, we both add it to our planners right then! He adds his to his phone calendar and adds an alarm.
** Between meetings, it's tough for us to communicate with any privacy - so we've discovered that email is a great fit for us to communicate. I email him at work - what's going on...bad day...good day...near loss of sanity...something is hopelessly flawed in our plan...whatever. I try NOT to be wordy in how I confide over email, but sometimes it helps me get those emotions out. Here's the thing though: HE DOESN'T ALWAYS RESPOND!! And that's ok. He's busy. The goal in this case is to keep him "in the loop" - knowing what is going on and how I'm doing. Of course, sometimes dh does respond and we communicate some that way. But the email keeps the pressure manageable...rather than dh getting home, me being exhausted and stressed, communicating that in a less-than-kind way, and dh then feeling defensive and cornered. If you can't email, try to text or a simple daily phone call...but email is a great medium if you and he have access to it.
Kathryn wrote:
| I just keep moving forward w/o a whole lot of help and the cycle starts again when I get to the end of my rope. |
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This is SO MUCH about perseverance and fortitude. >> Insert sweating, hard-working emoticon here.<< Remember Angie's wise words:
AngieMc wrote:
| 7. You aren't babysitting, you are raising a teenage male. He needs your help. |
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That's it. We don't get to go home after a few hours do we? We're in it for the long haul and it ISN'T easy.  This is the nitty gritty hard work part! Your son has special needs, and so he may need you to help him learn special tools to help him exercise his behavior within the boundaries you and your dh set. But learn them, he must. As we identify a challenge one of our children faces, that challenge can be special, or it might actually be pretty standard (exhausting none-theless), but the challenge is a part of that child, a unique person made in the Image of God. It is clearly the path to holiness for that child, and for dh and I. It's the way of the cross. And like all crosses, it's real, it's sometimes painful, and I have to walk with it. For the child's sake, I don't draw attention to the name or label because it's an additional burden for the child and for me and it implies that I believe that the child has limits and abilities that stem from the label. And I don't believe that. Our children's abilities and limits come from God. They aren't always straightforward, but then...nothing is! He entrusted me with these children, so I trust that He'll supply the grace and wisdom to parent with grace. (I have children that have special needs. We avoid labels so much that no child knows that they have a special challenge. It is simply a part of who that child is - we work with it. It doesn't excuse the child from living up to their God-given potential or from having the opportunity to exercise responsibility and live within our boundaries.)
Finally.....
When this gets deep and I feel weak or a little lost and definitely dog-tired, I have to anchor firmly in the hope and assurance God provides. I really like seeking out spiritual reading that helps me in staying the course! These are a couple of my favorite stay-the-course helps from In Conversation With God by St. Josemaria Escriva.
{Book 2, 39.1}
Quote:
...perseverance is doing the small everyday things with faith; it is supported by the humility of beginning again when we go astray through weakness
>> snip <<
To persevere in our own vocation is to respond to the repeated calls the Lord makes in the course of our lives, even though there are obstacles and difficulties and sometimes, the odd error, acts of cowardice and even defeats. As we contemplate these scenes from the Passion we consider our faithfulness in the tiny details of our own vocation. |
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{Book 2, 64.2 - Fortitude in difficult circumstances, emphasis mine}
Quote:
| We cannot forget that the supernatural objective we are seeking is an arduous good, a difficult one to attain, which demands a vigorous response on our part, full of fortitude. Fortitude is a cardinal or key virtue; it helps clear away obstacles and the fears which can hinder the will from following Our Lord resolutely. God always gives the necessary graces at every moment and in all circumstances. |
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God's plan, even in the intense, tough moments, is perfect. Keep trying. Keep putting one parenting foot in front of the other. Stay close to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and in His Sacraments so that your fortitude will "help clear away obstacles and fears"!! Praying for you, Kathryn.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Kathryn
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Thanks for all the guidance, Jen! I'm not going to try and copy and quote but just to add a couple things...yes, it prob. is in his face when he gets home b/c I'm "done" by that point and I want him to take over so we'll need to find a more workable solution for us both.
Yes, I don't like the labels but feel like I "fought" those for years too. We did start ADHD meds about 18 months ago after 8 years of denying he needed them. They help him sooo much. He's finally able to focus enough to make progress in his schoolwork and feel that success. He's much more able to control those impulses and negative behavior and get along better with his sisters. While there are still obviously some of these struggles, without acknowledging this facet it made me more depressed about why I couldn't properly parent this child...even after many, many prayers and tears. So, we've only talked about why he takes the meds but do remind him that we realize it's harder for him sometimes to focus or control his impulses while not allowing that to be an excuse. It also honestly helps us realize he does take a different parenting approach that is beyond and outside most "normal" parenting strategies. I understand what you say about placing a burden on the child but how is not helping the child learn to cope with their differences helpful? Maybe it's the subtle difference again in approach and wording.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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Yeah, it's probably pretty subtle. It's less about acknowledging that it exists and more about not using it to define the child. I think acknowledging it would help but not to make it an excuse.
You can give tools to use to meet expectations without labeling the struggle a disorder. So you might acknowledge that he has a harder time sitting at the table to do school work than his sibling, and give him some tools to use (the sibling can use these too actually) like standing instead of sitting to improve focus. It doesn't have to be labeled ADHD.. it's just doing what works for that child.
Even when things (like meds) need an actual label, we still work to manage the challenges instead of giving excuses (no matter how good and legitimate the excuse is).
As a parent, knowing the label can also help simply because it really helps with finding information that will help us help the child.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Kathryn
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Thanks for the tips too, Jodie! My outside windows are going to start looking VERY shiny! 
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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I love not having to get wood myself 
And another way sticking to "man-jobs" helps.. if it's a job that dad would normally get stuck with, if son is doing that job, dad has more time to spend on son.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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cheesehead mom
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Kathryn--Sounds like you have tried a lot of the behavior modifications and also got some awesome suggestions. I too caved (and my son is same age) on the meds and they helped him tremendously in the first 18months and then I noticed some decrease in efficacy. So if consistent discipline does not help, he may be growing and in need of a higher dose. Pretty much every study shows that behavior meds in combo with meds are most effective. Blessings.
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Servant2theKing
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Kathryn,
You might also want to consider the possibility of rebound effect from ds's medication. There's a window of time, especially at night, when certain medications wear off, sometimes causing symptoms to reoccur or rebound, or in some cases causing the symptoms to worsen. Proper oversight by your son's prescribing physician is vital. They should be able to adjust his dosage to lessen the occurrence of rebound or may decide to prescribe a medication that doesn't cause rebound. There's no shame in having to give your child medication for ADHD, especially when you've exhausted all parenting strategies or available forms of assistance. Four of our dc have needed medication for ADD/ADHD. Parents should no more deprive children of appropriate treatment for ADD or ADHD than they would withhold insulin for diabetes or surgery for birth defects. I empathize with your family's struggles and will be praying for you, your husband and your son. s to all those guiding and assisting family members with ADHD, or similar issues. You are not alone.
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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Kathryn
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Ok...here's today's recap. Dad was home b/c we were supposed to go to the stock show but it was too cold and a bit icy this morning so we didn't. And DH and I haven't sat down and formulated a list but going off some of the ideas, here's one example from our day:
I told DS about consequences/chores if he got on any electronic device w/o permission. He did a couple of times and once I asked him to clean up the outside toys they all played with in the snow yesterday. 2nd time, I asked dad what "manly" chore he could do and he said to clean out the fireplace and start a fire. GREAT...until...DS starting putting last night's hot coals into a plastic 5 gallon bucket and it started melting! Ok...rally...dad said he could put them in the metal wagon so in he drags the metal wagon into the living room and starts dumping the ashes into it sending smoke all over the room...and floor. So this is one example that reminded me of when I mentioned the word "babysitting" him before and why we resorted to sentences is b/c he needs us by his side for almost everything throughout his day and it's exhausting! It is just not physically feasible to have a watchful eye over every.task he does.
So, I'm not calling this a failure at all and I was able to maintain calm (of course DH was here) but I will continue the more productive chores for him. This is really just an example of reality for him and needing a lot of guidance in many, many, many areas of his life. Yes, I know I could probably have more empathy about what it's like for him...
Oh...and I did use the "THAT is lying" line to my 3 yr old instead of "YOU are lying to me" Yes, subtle difference but it does allow for me to not get so hot under the collar to think SHE's a liar and internalize that.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Kathryn
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cheesehead mom wrote:
| Kathryn--Sounds like you have tried a lot of the behavior modifications and also got some awesome suggestions. I too caved (and my son is same age) on the meds and they helped him tremendously in the first 18months and then I noticed some decrease in efficacy. So if consistent discipline does not help, he may be growing and in need of a higher dose. Pretty much every study shows that behavior meds in combo with meds are most effective. Blessings. |
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We actually changed brands about 4 months ago and that was a complete failure. Then we switched back but lowered his dose and that was like having nothing. So, we're back to just 20 mg which, for the most part, is fine to help with focus and impulse but those off times are much more challenging. He's also greatly affected by sleep quality and allergies.
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Kathryn in TX
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Kathryn
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Servant2theKing wrote:
Kathryn,
You might also want to consider the possibility of rebound effect from ds's medication. There's a window of time, especially at night, when certain medications wear off, sometimes causing symptoms to reoccur or rebound, or in some cases causing the symptoms to worsen. |
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There is no doubt that BEFORE meds kick in the AM and after they've worn off in afternoon are the MOST challenging. That's when I find myself gritting my teeth the most. There is some slight rebound on occasion and that's when I reallllly pull out the calming techniques (for me and him.) I have found that using energy to maintain calm can be just as exhausting too though.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Servant2theKing
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Kathryn,
You might consider trying OTC Calms Forte in the evenings. It's homeopathic and won't interfere with prescribed meds. It can be helpful for sleep issues and also has a calming effect. We've found it at Walmart, as well as online through Vitacost.com, 1800homeopathy.com or amazon.com. You might ask your son's doctor about Straterra or Adderal; I believe both have fewer side effects. It's been awhile since we had to deal with medication trials. There may be newer, more improved options available now. It can be challenging to change medications, but in the longrun it's less difficult than the struggles your son and your entire family are experiencing.
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Feb 07 2014 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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Servant2theKing wrote:
Kathryn,
You might consider trying OTC Calms Forte in the evenings. |
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Oh...I know all about these. I just took 2 of the nervous ones.
I think he tried Concerta (meth based?) and it was absolutely awful, awful, awful!! He's on Focalin XR which is pretty good overall. This is one reason I didn't want to do the med route is it does seem like a constant adjust/re-adjust but as you've seen, that's a constant anyway in regards to behavior. It's interesting to read on some of the ADD forums the difference in how people respond to the diff meds based on their biochemistry I guess.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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knowloveserve
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| Posted: Feb 08 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged
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Just wanted to say how much I appreciate this thread. I have a nine year old boy who sounds an awful lot like this… he has been the source of so much agony and frankly misery for me… then the guilt for having those feelings. I've tried to figure out "how do you train or correct impulsiveness?" Because he truly does not think before acting no matter the consequences sometimes! We enrolled him in private school last year because it seemed like all my homeschooling efforts with the other children were being sabotaged with all the time I had to put into dealing with his behavior. (Having him in school didn't fix things… it traded one set of problems for another… he is back at home this year.)
Anyway, it can feel very overwhelming and isolating to have a child like this… and it's good to know we are not alone.
He is my path to Heaven, of this I'm convinced. I just need to figure out how to endure this path one step at a time. 
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Feb 08 2014 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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Going back to the cleaning out the fireplace task for a minute...
Boys really don't think through the "what will happen if..." stuff very well. I worked with Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for many years and know this to be true from personal experience. (And, with ADHD children, this lasts well into young adulthood. I can show you my damaged dining room table...)
So, my suggestion is that every "manly task" come with either a written set of instructions or a pre-task briefing, with a supply list in either case. (Ashes go in this bucket only. This is the shovel you need to use. Be sure to unplug this item after you use it.) Checklists or let's-talk-through-this conversations can be very helpful.
I realize this is more work for you and your DH, but it will save you time and headaches in the long term.
It's really important to base expectations on where each child is, not on age in years or grade level. My son has been tall since he was a toddler, and we learned early on that we needed to help him tell people that he was 4, not 6, or 13, not 17, because people expected a level of maturity that he simply didn't have. Kathryn, with your son, I know you and your husband are meeting him where he is, but, as you work with him, consider trying to give him the words that will help him convey where he is to others. ("I would like to talk through the steps for doing X. Can you help me?" "I have never done this before. How do you do it?")
and many prayers!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Impulsiveness, sneaking.adhd.UPDATE..good
