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Kathryn
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So, there is no doubt that ADHD impulsiveness exists in a BIG way in this house with one child in particular!  Many times he will get up in the night and instead of going right back to sleep, he'll eat a bowl of cereal and then sit in front of the tv. We long ago created passwords to the computer to keep him off these but now I've taken to blocking as much of the tv channels as I can and even taking away the remotes to tv and wii...all to significant inconvenience to everyone else in the house.
However, today, he went in my room, AGAIN, went through my drawers, AGAIN, to find the remotes and then plopped himself down in front of the tv. When I asked where he got the remote he said, "from your room". It's like he has NO CLUE that this is not right! He's 13!!
I keep thinking...What would Dr. Ray say? What would the Popcak's say? So, instead of calling them, I'm asking you.  Do I treat this like lying, sneaking, stealing? If so, how? He really and truly acts like he has no clue whatsoever that he shouldn't do that. My girls would NEVER...even the 6 yr old! dream of going thru our drawers if I took something away from them until I gave it back.
There's def. the ADHD component and it's been mentioned before that maybe there's some Asperger's spectrum disorder there but either way...how do I address this? And this is most def. not the first time but it's like banging our head against a brick wall and exhausting to have to "babysit" him like this.  
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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stellamaris
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What are the consequences for his behavior? Are there any rules in place that make clear that if he does an unacceptable action (such as taking the remote from your room, or taking anything from your room, or maybe just watching TV-however he got the remote-at certain times) that an unpleasant consequence will occur? Bright kids especially need to have clear and enforced consequences, because they often try to get away with as much as they can! I wouldn't even try to label it as lying, stealing, or anything else. I wouldn't worry about whether he seems to have a clue about the rightness of it all. Just sit down with him, clearly state the rule and the consequence, maybe post it somewhere. When he is caught breaking the rule, have him read the consequence and then be sure that he experiences the consequence. I would probably completely remove the TV for a period of time, but if that's too extreme for the rest of the family, maybe you could come up with another consequence. If he objects, remember there is nothing to discuss--the rule is clear and written down. If he chooses to break it, then he is choosing to suffer the consequence of breaking it.
I think it is very important not to make excuses for our children, even if they are struggling with some special challenges. I know how hard this is from my own situation with a son (also almost 13) who has very severe ADD, expressive language disorder, and motor processing challenges. It really is tough to firmly, kindly, and consistently guide a child like this. I constantly remind myself not to deprive him of the opportunity to learn to take responsibility for his own actions. I don't always succeed in not making excuses for him--it is something I pray about all the time. I really empathize with your situation.
 to you Kathryn!
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Caroline
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SeaStar
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I recently listened to a Dr. Ray cd from Lighthouse as a refresher  .
Consequences...
When a rule is broken and you are very angry and/or can't think straight, tell the child to go to his room and stay there until he hears from you.
When you've had a moment to think, then you can go and inform him of the consequence. Some he suggested are:
Writing 100 times: I will not watch TV without permission
Writing a fifty word apology to his mother for being disobedient
If he is disrespectful to you over this in word, tone, action, or look, then it goes up to 150 sentences or an apology of 100 words.
And he stays in his room until this is done.... no meals, no activities, no TV, nothing fun or outside the house until the work is done.
Being consistent is key.
All that is according to Dr. Ray.
I would throw in not to engage in conversation or debate over the offense or consequence. My kids usually are well aware of what they have done wrong and why it is wrong. Extra talk leads nowhere and makes tempers go higher.
I will pray for you and your ds.
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anitamarie
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I definitely agree with everything above. I would only add to consider getting a lock box for the items and keep the key on you. This won't go away overnight, even with the consequences that you impose. So, while you are teaching him with consequences, you can make it abundantly clear that you are willing to go to any lengths to enforce your rules. You will also keep yourself a little more sane in dealing with his behavior, since there is no way for him to "find" the stuff.
On a humorous note, have you considered letting one of his little sisters go through all his drawers and see how he likes the feeling? Just kidding.
You might also consider an essay on what it means to Honor your father and mother, or an essay on why it's rude to go through other people's things or violate their privacy. Or go the other way and ask for an essay on why it's okay for him to violate the house rules, or why he doesn't have to respect your privacy ,etc.
to you. I know your frustration and feeling of helplessness.
God Bless,
Anita
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Kathryn
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I can't even begin to tell you how.many.sentences this kid has written!! I guarantee it's well into the 1000s! Yes, 1000s! 10 here, 25 there, 100 here time and time and time again. We've now moved up to essay writing like you mentioned, Anita. I haven't tried the reverse route though. I try to pick my battles. I really do...there's just so many that even when I DON't choose a battle to fight, it's still exhausting. This child leaves me mentally and spiritually exhausted. I mean to the depths of exhaustion...I feel lucky to still have the physical strength but the others are waning. It still ebbs and flows but such a daily struggle.
Thanks for the hugs...I desperately need them. More than you know!!
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Kathryn in TX
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SeaStar
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Kathryn-
If sentences don't dissuade him, is there something else that would work?
Essays, mopping floors, doing his siblings' chores for the day... Dr. Ray mentioned that the offender could take over the chores of the offendee for the day or week.
That would make him your personal errand/work boy for the day. He might really dislike being at your beck and call as slave boy for the day. Laundry, kitchen duty, sweeping, cooking, cleaning baseboards, scrubbing toilets... you could keep him busy for hours!
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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Kathryn
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Melinda,
He's done it all...baseboards, sweeping, loss of privileges etc. And I do get obedience to the consequence, but not any long-term obedience to the actual rules in place. He's the type of child that is always pushing buttons and as Dr. Ray would say, he's probably always going to be that way.  It's just so.very.difficult to live with him.
I think that's why I get frustrated. I keep thinking there's going to be some magical consequence that will CHANGE him, MATURE him but in all honestly, I remember he was a very pleasant baby until...20 months! YES, 20 months! It's been up and down ever since. I hate feeling this way and sometimes homeschool really does heighten the frustration levels but with all his learning challenges sometimes I do feel stuck like I have no other option. Guess I'm just venting now. Sigh...
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Kathryn in TX
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Don't have time to read all responses, but have a quick idea. My older brother when he was young, sounds so much like your son. My parents got a 2 piece plug for the TV, you could twist off and take the plug and off the cord. They took it with them to bed or when gone, etc. it helped.
I sympathize totally with the difficulty of this child for you, as it was even hard just watching how hard it was for my parents. They tried everything, too. Life was just so hard with him in the house. He has a good heart many times, and would give the shirt off his back to a poor person, and help anybody, and yet can be such a trying person, and yes often seems totally oblivious to how difficult he makes life for others.
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JodieLyn
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You can do that with a lot of cords simply by getting one of those tiny master locks and putting it through the hole on the larger side of the plug.
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A lock on your bedroom door would give you a place to store all electronic items when not in use. My DD's godparents were ToughLove coordinators for their city for many years and used this method to safeguard their checks, valuables, etc., during a very difficult period in their relationship with their oldest child. Don't worry about protests ("You don't trust me!") - no, you don't, and that trust must be earned with long-term, consistent behavior.
And, if I may be a bit outspoken, permit me to add that at age 13, obedience to the consequence is fine. At least he recognizes that real, consistent consequences exist. Some people never do.
Stay consistent and take steps to protect remotes, plugs, etc. so that you are always in control of access to those items. If he thinks he can outwit you, he will keep trying. If he knows he can't outwit you, then consequences can have an impact on his behavior.
Final thought: In the end, he will grow up and he will be responsible for his own actions. You are already doing so much to help him. Don't ever sell yourselves short. Stay consistent and follow through. I know it's hard. Ask us for prayer when you need it! You aren't alone, and venting is okay for that very reason.
Heavenly Father, we ask you to bless our sister Kathryn and her family. Be with them as they continue to grow in Your love and discern Your will in their lives. Give Kathryn and her husband the strength and love they will need to face the ongoing challenges of parenthood and homeschooling. Help them to take comfort and inspiration from the example of the Holy Family, and provide them with the love and support they will need every single day of their parenting journey. Give us, the 4Rreal community, opportunities to pray for Kathryn and her family and to provide them the support and love that all homeschooling families need.
We ask this through Jesus Christ, Our Lord, and through the intercession of the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph, her blessed spouse and the foster-father of Jesus.
Amen.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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SeaStar
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Just adding that my MIL tells the story of one of her four sons... she says it almost killed her to raise him; he gave her untold grief over anything and everything.
But in the long run he outgrew all that, and now is a model son, calling her once a week, etc. She always ends with a sigh of relief.
Your son is a work in progress, Kathryn, and you are doing everything you need to be doing. It is exhausting, yes- but God has trusted you and your dh with this special mission. Keep your chin up!
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Kathryn
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Thank you for that prayer, Nancy. That was really beautiful, touching and heartfelt.
Thank you also Melinda and Pilgrim for sharing those stories. I hold out SUCH hope...I really, really do but oh the web of worry and daily life just grips me so strongly.
I need to work on keeping my emotional temperature in check and keep focus on the long-term by continuing the consequences even if I'm seeing no fruit of those labors right now.  I want to see the fruits of my harvest RIGHT NOW! 
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Kathryn in TX
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Angie Mc
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Kathryn wrote:
So, there is no doubt that ADHD impulsiveness exists in a BIG way in this house with one child in particular! Many times he will get up in the night and instead of going right back to sleep, he'll eat a bowl of cereal and then sit in front of the tv. We long ago created passwords to the computer to keep him off these but now I've taken to blocking as much of the tv channels as I can and even taking away the remotes to tv and wii...all to significant inconvenience to everyone else in the house.
However, today, he went in my room, AGAIN, went through my drawers, AGAIN, to find the remotes and then plopped himself down in front of the tv. When I asked where he got the remote he said, "from your room". It's like he has NO CLUE that this is not right! He's 13!!
I keep thinking...What would Dr. Ray say? What would the Popcak's say? So, instead of calling them, I'm asking you. Do I treat this like lying, sneaking, stealing? If so, how? He really and truly acts like he has no clue whatsoever that he shouldn't do that. My girls would NEVER...even the 6 yr old! dream of going thru our drawers if I took something away from them until I gave it back.
There's def. the ADHD component and it's been mentioned before that maybe there's some Asperger's spectrum disorder there but either way...how do I address this? And this is most def. not the first time but it's like banging our head against a brick wall and exhausting to have to "babysit" him like this. |
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I'll take a stab at this!
1. He has lost the privilege of being in your room. If he invades your privacy again, he will lose the privilege of his privacy. (You can remove the door to his room.)
2. No one is allowed to eat between (set hours). If he chooses to eat again at off hours, he will lose the privilege of food. He can start paying your for it and/or go shopping for it.
3. TV hours are between (set hours). If he chooses to watch it on off hours again, he will lose the privilege of the television. (Consider moving the TV to your bedroom.)
4. Don't ask him question that you know the answers to. If you know that he took the remotes from your room say, "I see that the TV was turned on with the remote. It was in my room so that you wouldn't have free access to the TV. You invaded my privacy." Then dole out the consequences.
5. He has a clue, he just wants what he wants. No more being surprised at this, OK? He wants what he wants when he wants it. He's a boy. he's a teen. He may have special needs. He needs to learn healthy limits and boundaries...and that takes a lot of time and effort.
6. Your son isn't your daughters. He's your son. No more comparing because it zaps your energy and gets you nowhere.
7. You aren't babysitting, you are raising a teenage male. He needs your help.
8. And you need help. Consider delegating all of your son's discipline to your husband. If that isn't possible, then find other adults to share the load. Currently, I have several teens who I'm available to help when their mom is overwhelmed.
9. And you need to take care of yourself. Refuel your tank so that you can give, give, and give some more.
10. I just have to say... I've never seen writing/essays as an effective discipline tool for kids, especially intense kids. While it might give everyone a feeling of doing something, I'm hard pressed to see it actually doing something. There are so many more creative ways to get a kid's attention. Mainly, removing privileges that they hold dear and/or adding more real work.
Best wishes and stay strong! You are a great mom! He needs you :)
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mom21
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Angie Mc wrote:
[10. I just have to say... I've never seen writing/essays as an effective discipline tool for kids, especially intense kids. While it might give everyone a feeling of doing something, I'm hard pressed to see it actually doing something. There are so many more creative ways to get a kid's attention. Mainly, removing privileges that they hold dear and/or adding more real work.
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I couldn't agree more with what Angie said, especially ^^^.
Our DS-almost-13 lost his Kindle privileges for nearly 3 months this past fall when he "forgot" the rules about using it. The Kindle went to dad's office during Kindle-detox and when it returned, no more problems.
It was one of the best learning experiences he had and the other positives that came from it where numerous.
Hang in there, Kathryn. 
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Kathryn
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Mom21 wrote:
The Kindle went to dad's office during Kindle-detox and when it returned, no more problems.
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Yes, the Kindle he rec'd for his b-day last June has been at his dad's office for about 2 months now too!
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Kathryn in TX
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Kathryn
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Angie Mc wrote:
10. I just have to say... I've never seen writing/essays as an effective discipline tool for kids, especially intense kids. While it might give everyone a feeling of doing something, I'm hard pressed to see it actually doing something. There are so many more creative ways to get a kid's attention. Mainly, removing privileges that they hold dear and/or adding more real work.
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I'm not sure how "effective" it is either as a particular consequence or behavior change but what it DOES accomplish is gives him something.to.do. Idol hands... I've lately switched from just rote sentences to essay or copying from the Bible or even copying from his Science text. Something, anything to fill his time with something more productive. And sometimes that's what I'll say after some offense..."it seems you need something productive to do besides being sneaky or being wired to an electronic so you can write xxx from xxx".
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Kathryn in TX
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Kathryn
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Angie Mc wrote:
1. He has lost the privilege of being in your room. If he invades your privacy again, he will lose the privilege of his privacy. (You can remove the door to his room.) |
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So, how long would this last? The day, the week? Sometimes I go overboard in doling out the consequence or just leave it open ended like you can never come in my room again! There needs to be a reasonable limit.
Angie Mc wrote:
2. No one is allowed to eat between (set hours). If he chooses to eat again at off hours, he will lose the privilege of food. He can start paying your for it and/or go shopping for it. |
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I'm pretty strict about snacks during the day but b/c meds, I feel like he needs the calories so I'm kind of wishy-washy on the midnight snacks. One thing we've done is make sure he has a high-protein greek yogurt close to bed and a lot of times that will fill him up. But it's almost like he sleepwalks himself right into the kitchen. I might still be up at midnight and I'll go in there and he's eating a bowl of cereal literally with his eyes completely closed and then saunters back to bed. If I didn't say anything, he wouldn't know I was there.
I'll ponder the rest for a bit...
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Kathryn in TX
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roomintheheart
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I have not read all the replies carefully, so sorry if I repeat. In my case, I had to find my son's "currency." It took quite a few tries. Grounding, extra chores, etc. didn't work with him, but taking away his iPod--oh my! Nearly instant results!
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Mackfam
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Kathryn wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
10. I just have to say... I've never seen writing/essays as an effective discipline tool for kids, especially intense kids. While it might give everyone a feeling of doing something, I'm hard pressed to see it actually doing something. There are so many more creative ways to get a kid's attention. Mainly, removing privileges that they hold dear and/or adding more real work.
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I'm not sure how "effective" it is either as a particular consequence or behavior change but what it DOES accomplish is gives him something.to.do. Idol hands... I've lately switched from just rote sentences to essay or copying from the Bible or even copying from his Science text. Something, anything to fill his time with something more productive. And sometimes that's what I'll say after some offense..."it seems you need something productive to do besides being sneaky or being wired to an electronic so you can write xxx from xxx". |
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For a 13 yo boy, I suggest something physically productive for these scenarios. Brainstorm it ahead of time with dh. Have a list made already. Have DAD post it - it's his list and he has set the tone. If son's behavior shows a need for productive work while he's away, these are the jobs he wants done. You can explain simply: "If your behavior reflects a need for productive work and you cannot find it yourself, dad will provide work for you."
This age needs concrete, firm and simple....with lots and lots of expressing love through their love language. If x then y. Follow through. Again and again and again.
So, instead of writing - consider:
"Sneaking is deceitful and unacceptable behavior in this house. The consequence is _____fill in the blank with proportional consequence___ . You clearly need productive work to fill your time...you may..."
** Empty the garage and sweep it.
** Empty the family vehicle and vacuum it.
** Clean car windows - inside and out.
** Wash the van.
** Check the fluid levels in all vehicles.
** Reorganize the outdoor workspace (do you have a workshop?, barn?)
** Do 50 push-ups.
** Dust, wipe and polish all outdoor work boots.
...continue adding to the list based on YOUR family needs. These jobs are (1) productive, (2) completely trainable and within the realm of a 13 yo boy, (3) manly which is something important to teen boys. The job should be complete by the time dad gets home, and dad must check the job (not you!) before the son regains ANY privilege.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Kathryn
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Angie Mc wrote:
8. And you need help. Consider delegating all of your son's discipline to your husband. If that isn't possible, then find other adults to share the load. Currently, I have several teens who I'm available to help when their mom is overwhelmed. |
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Another one...how does this work in the "real" world. When I ask DH to step up the discipline (I typically am more strict) he will say "but you're with him all day, what am I supposed to do from work when I don't even have time to eat lunch". So, practically speaking, when DS takes the remote at 9:30 in the AM...what would I do? When all these behaviors pop up thru out the day, I would love to delegate discipline but not sure how that is practical. ??
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Kathryn in TX
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Impulsiveness, sneaking.adhd.UPDATE..good
