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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 21 2014 at 11:55am | IP Logged
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Our food garden gets smaller year by year . . . I'm really almost ready to give up. Last year was awful, mostly because of the rain. Our tomatoes hardly produced at all and were just a mess: big, heavy Cherokee Purple vines knocked off the stakes/trellising by the rain and then their own weight. Banana peppers did well, however, and I froze a lot of them. Strawberries, which I'd just transplanted, did . . . ehhhh. Blueberries are still too young to produce much, but I remain hopeful and may plant more. Birds got whatever figs we had.
Our problem is that our sunniest, best garden spot is right by the driveway, where I worry about lead in the soil. Everything else gets much more intermittent sun, and at the height of summer we have really heavy shade front and back -- which is great for atmosphere, but bad for growing crops. I've tried various garden patches in various spots, but they've never been terribly successful, and then they just get messy and I don't want to look at them any more.
I think I'm going to limit myself to containers this year and do greens early in the season, then cherry tomatoes (my kids love them, and it's easy enough to pick and just have a bowl on the table, or slice them into salad), banana peppers, and herbs -- my basil was good last year, and I have always had nice thyme, rosemary, oregano, and mints -- the mints are taking over, in fact. I'll just use a part of the driveway-side garden for a grouping of tubs, which will add some interest to what will otherwise be a wilderness of zinnias, which the goldfinches will love. I'm giving over most of the garden space, in fact, to bird/butterfly/bee garden rather than food for us . . . feeding us out of our own ground has just never been, in practice, a real option, and I think I need to make my peace with that for now.
Sally
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: Jan 21 2014 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
My problem is because of looking for short season and cold hearty plants that I have a hard time finding those all at one place. It does make sense. If you're going to have a seed business it does seem likely that you'll want to live where it's easier to grow things than somewhere like I do. 
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We live in a colder climate, as well, and we always tell those that live in cooler climates, the best help in finding what will grow for them is paying attention to the "days to maturity" listed for each seed variety and stick to the ones with the shortest season.
A great tool for knowing how long your growing season is here at Dave's Garden. Just stick in your zip code and it will help you know how long of a growing season you can expect. We usually are conservative in our Northern climate with going shorter with our season than charts give us, to be on the safe side, but it does help a lot to have a "guesstimate" to know if you have a long enough season to grow something you want to.
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: Jan 21 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
We also fence the garden. We haven't had to many difficulties with the wildlife (those deer are always a possibility) but we fence also to help small children to remember that it's a garden not a giant sandbox, and to keep the big ones from accidentally running through while paying more attention to the lacrosse ball than their feet.  |
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Yes! We do the same. 
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 21 2014 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
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Pilgrim wrote:
A great tool for knowing how long your growing season is here at Dave's Garden. Just stick in your zip code and it will help you know how long of a growing season you can expect. |
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Ah yep.. that gives us a 93 day growing season. Now most places around here the weather stations are out are out of town and we run a bit warmer here in town (we're on the beginning of an upslope) so we usually get longer than that and the frosts aren't real hard so plastic over the plants before nightfall (to retain the warmth in the soil) is often all we need to get another week or two. So in practice around here most people do manage to get a bit more time. But I also think the cooler summer temps slow down a lot of things so even if they have long enough to grow they don't grow well without enough heat.
I was looking at seed saving for a variety of reasons. And so I've reduced my variety to ones that mostly won't cross (don't know what to do about pumpkins and spaghetti squash) but at least I can put those on either end of the garden. Same with the two varieties of tomatoes.
But then things like lettuce.. is there anything other than how dark of green it gets to tell you which has the most nutrition?
I should find my list and share it. I still need to work out who to get what from. I wish I could get it all from one location but that never works and sometimes if I can't work it down to just two maybe 3 locations for everything, I have to change my selection to something I can get from one of the places I'm ordering from.
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Pilgrim
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| Posted: Jan 21 2014 at 4:09pm | IP Logged
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I know, that's the hard when you like certain things and want to try them, you have to buy from more than one spot! And for us it's so hard to decide sometimes, we love to try new varieties, and pretty much every year our gardens are bigger than we first intend, as we want to try so many things!
Yes, that is so true, certain plants only do well where there is hot enough weather at some point in the season.
As to the squash cross-pollinating issue, you could look into pollinating some blossoms by hand. There is a way to do it so they won't cross pollinate, I think you tape the blossom shut after pollinating by hand, or something similar. It's not too much work, as you would only need to really do one or two(maybe 2 just in case the one you had selected didn't grow well for some reason), as squash pumpkins give plenty of seeds for saving. And when you go to save the seeds, look into fermenting the seeds, it takes off the slimy coat that tomatoes or squash both have. It's worked great for us.
One of new most favorite books on saving seeds is The Complete Guide to Saving Seeds, it's lovely, and has *lots* of great info besides just saving seeds. We really like it. Our other favorite standby is Seed to Seed by Suzanne Ashworth. Again, lots of great info, including helpful info from people living in the different regions around the US on how to grow each kind of plant.
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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I love hearing your stories and looking at the resources you share!
I have these dreams of moving to a house with more acreage so that I can grow more and be more self-sufficient. But I feel I cannot do this if I cannot be "faithful with little things" and try and do better with my suburban garden. I love reading books such as The Backyard Homestead: Produce all the Food You Need on a Quarter Acre. But I don't seem to have a lot of success. I can blame the clay and weather in our area, but I need to plan better and figure out which plants may work.
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 10:14am | IP Logged
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I know, Marilyn -- the gap between my dreams (fueled by those exact books) and my reality is so huge that I get discouraged. So I'm listening with great interest here and trying to envision what baby steps I might take this year so that it's not all a total failure.
Sally
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JodieLyn
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Sometimes the soil is "impossible". You can consider slowly adding in raised beds with good soil in them.
I also find it helps me to plan what to plant by the things that are either 1) expensive to buy or 2) impossible to buy
Tomatoes and zucchini are expensive to buy here. I'll certainly use my space for those rather than potatoes and corn.
But also space. Some things take up way more space than others so you also want to pick by what can work best in a small space.
With a small space you might also look into Square Foot Gardening which helps maximize the crops you fit in a particular area.
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 8:15pm | IP Logged
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I'm hoping to have one square-foot-type raised bed this year, as well as whatever other containers I can plant up with edibles. We'll see how that goes. Like Marilyn, I have the clay to contend with, though in some places it's gotten a lot better as we've worked it and composted it over the years. This will be our sixth summer in this house, and I'm gradually working my way around amending various beds. Actually our richest soil is in the shadiest shade bed, where all the pecan leaves fall. They compost really quickly, much better than oak leaves, so we've got that wonderful black humous there . . . but no sun, so it's of absolutely no use to our veggie-growing efforts!
But our bluebells and white violets are gorgeous in the spring, and the hosta situation is looking up. I'm hoping to sow a lot of coleus seed there, too, this year, for some foliage beauty in what have been bare spots.
And I'm looking forward to the zinnias and cosmos, and the flicker of goldfinch wings!
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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How are you ladies doing? We had our first wram day without snow on the ground and spent the who time outside, tidying the garden. I moved our strawberries to a 4x8 bed. They had been in a narrow bed along a stretch of fence, but it was hard to pick them since you could only come at them from one side. I was pulling runners to plant and letting go of the older plants, and the bed is pretty full, though, I admit I mixed my June bearers and ever-bearers  .
I would like to get some peas and spinach in the ground, but there is currently a baby asleep in my lap, so we'll see.
I's like to start some seeds inside but haven' managed to get dirt yet. 
Anyone else busying themselves? The late snow and late lent this year have me really feeling "off" regarding when I should be doing things!
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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millermom1110
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| Posted: March 08 2014 at 2:51pm | IP Logged
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I've just realized that this post was here! Gardening and general self-sufficiency is a growing passion of mine. We currently live on 1/2 an acre, so our space is limited, but we do the best we can with what we have. As another mom posted above, my increasing grocery bill with 4 kids is a great motivator.
Another seed source I wanted to recommend is Botanical Insterests. I'll have to check into St. Clare's, too.
We discovered winter sowing last year and had great success with it. It's a wonderful way to start seeds without the pricey/bulky grow lamps. I winter sowed most of my plants last year and I had a shockingly productive garden. Which is huge for someone who is infamous for killing plants.
I've started many of my cool weather crops already using the winter sowing method (kale, mesclun, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, and a few other things that I'm probably forgetting). Radishes, peas, carrots and beets will go directly into the ground in another 3-4 weeks. We still haven't had a day above 38 degrees or so.  I can sometimes be seen on my hands and knees around this time of year trying to will the first asparagus stalk up out of the ground. That's always my favorite!
We started last year with a 10 ft x 15 ft veggie garden, and also put in 4 blueberry bushes and 4 raspberry brambles. This year I'm hoping to add another 40-50 sq ft to the main garden, along with a few raised beds, some strawberries somewhere, and ... well. I always tend to get in over my head with these things, so I should probably stop while I'm ahead. All I know is I'm trying to enjoy my last few weeks of relative rest before the business of garden season picks up.
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CrunchyMom
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I like winter sowing, too, miller mom! I am not doing so many this year, but I need to getthe seed to do some of my favorites. I did not have great luck winter sowing brassicas last year, but I love doing a bunch of romaine to use as a pretty and edible border in my cinder block beds. I also have consistent success with marigolds and parsley. I saw today that my containers where I stuck my winter sown succulents and lavendar last year "runneth over" which is so much fun!
My 5 year old butchered my herb beds today, and I was upset, but it occurred to me as I pondered its rememdy that I was never thrilled with how they looked, and then as I thought about how I really dislike our front bed but haven't had the energy or insoiration to do anything but tame it from time to time, that perhaps it would work to landscape it with perrenial herbs! It is a sort of rock garden on a slope, and that seems a good plan. Will have to mull and talk to dh!
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Angel
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| Posted: March 10 2014 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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I haven't been on the boards very much in the past few months, but it's nice to pop in for some gardening talk!
Our garden is going to be pretty low key this year, I think, because we have a lot of work to do on the house, colleges to visit (spring and fall), and with 7 kids to plan work for next year, I don't know how much I'll be able to handle. That didn't stop us from ordering 34 chicks, though, to replace the ones we lost last year right after the baby was born.
(Foxes ate all 35 of our chickens in one night. I'm still scarred.)
Anyway, I'm late on the seed order, so we just picked up some Seeds of Change lettuce and carrot packets, which they are now selling at our Lowe's, to fill in the gaps from what we had leftover from last year -- spinach and peas. I'm still debating about whether I want to use bed space for potatoes, since they all rotted in the ground last year. I probably will put in some broccoli plants, though; I'm not planning on starting any of my own plants, broccoli or otherwise, this year.
I do still have to order summer seeds, though, and I think we're going to grow sweet potatoes again this year. They did ok last year and we got to try the purple and white varieties, which I liked, but I think we'd get a better yield if we could amend our clay with some decent soil and keep the area weeded better.
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Angel
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| Posted: March 10 2014 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
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Oh, and our winter garden - not a huge success. We started it too late and it got too cold. The spinach was just starting to grow again when we got hit with some temps in the teens with ice. Now it's back to its wintertime frost-burned condition.
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SallyT
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| Posted: March 10 2014 at 6:22pm | IP Logged
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Well, we're building a cinder-block raised square-foot bed this week (Belmont Abbey spring break -- yeah!) and putting in some early things. I have carrots, spinach, and a lettuce mix sown already in containers and am waiting to see what comes up. Maybe this will be a better year . . . I'm trying to think positively, and also realistically, after the failures of recent years.
Angela, might you be coming this way to visit Belmont Abbey?? PM me if that's in your plans at all. That goes for anyone -- if you're coming to visit Belmont Abbey, let me know!
Back to our regularly scheduled garden talk.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: March 10 2014 at 7:41pm | IP Logged
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I really like my cinder block beds, Sally! The block border is a fun place to experiment. My favorites are onions and romaine, but strawberries, radishes, marigolds, and nasturtium have also been fun to try. The radishes were a little susceptible to drying out and thus getting spicier, but they were very cute! I was initially worried the block wouldn't look as pretty as other options, but they have settled into the landscape easily, lending a feeling of permanence that I like. Perhaps not so permanent or pretty as old European stone walls and borders , but at least I can rest in their not rotting or falling into disrepair. Dh actually bolted ours together so they easily withstand being stepped upon and abused by our motley crew.
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Martha
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I built a raised garden against the back of the house with rocks from the yard. (There used to be big rocks everywhere, for a pond and other stuff the previous owner had done.)
It got a very rough start. We had frost in MAY?! Had to completely replant TWICE. Ugh. It's by a couple weeks of turning on the AC and then wham, frost and freezing wind for two nights.
But we still had a decent little turn out of tomatoes, peppers, and one surprise pumpkin. (Don't know how that happened bc I did not plant pumpkin!) After the first frost of fall, I cut everything down and we basicly used it like a compost dump until it got too cold to decompose. I figured any seeds will either fertilize or sprout! I don't really care either way. We left our soaker hose under it all. After all, the most important thing is for water to get to roots. I LOVE soaker hoses. If leaving them there turns out a bad idea, I'll buy more and remember not to do that this year. Putting the soaker hoses under the mulch and a bit of dirt really made our garden take off last year and a couple times we did forget to turn them off, but mostly it was much easier and took all the effort out of it. I think you can even get them on timers or hooked up to your sprinkler system if you are lucky enough to have one.
When we are hopefully past worries of frost, I'll go out there and till up the dirt and old whatever and plant something in the veggie garden. And see if anything comes back or not. I don't know what yet. I have two hay bails I used to insulate some plants in the flower garden that needed protection from winter. I'll have to take them off and I'm contemplating using them around my veggie garden plants to insulate them from the dog and evaporation from heat. Not sure tho because right before it got really cold, I saw some grass sprouting on the top of one of them. I sure don't need to plant grass in my veggie garden....
Oh and weeding... it was my 5 minute therapy every day. On the way to check the mailbox, I'd take a few minutes to pluck any sprouting whatever that caught my eye. On the way to check the pool chemistry, I'd do the same for the veggie garden. I had very few weeds cropping this way and it didn't feel like a huge time sucking over-whelming chore.
In my dreams, instead of cheap mulch that has to be replaced in flower gardens, I'd get stones. It's expensive to get enough to properly do the job, but it sure is easier afterward. Alas, I don't think that's in our budget this year.
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SallyT
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Lindsay, the aesthetics of cinder blocks are my husband's #1 reservation. We already have cinder blocks acting as a retaining wall along the front part of the driveway, and picturesque they are not . . . though I need to finish planting up those holes, too. I had a lot of thyme and oregano growing there before, but then we rebuilt the front porch, and everything for what felt like miles around got ripped out. 18 months later, we're still recovering.
Martha, I wish I had enough rocks to do something with! And yes, I love soaker hoses, too. I'm positioning our new veggie garden so that we can just leave the soaker hose there.
I'm about to undo our very messy old pallet-fenced compost pile, spread a lot of it over beds, and start over in more contained bins with lids. Our dog and various wild creatures continually do a number on our coffee grounds and egg shells, which of course we put out as a buffet just for them. Undoing the pile will net me another 4x4 space along the back yard wall . . . I think I'm going to extend my blueberry orchard by another plant or two. And I want to put in blackberries along one side of the yard where there's chain-link fencing. I dream of children blackberrying in my yard!
Sally
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SallyT
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Heh. Looking back over my posts on this page, I see my optimism soaring . . .
eta: Like Icarus.
:)
Sally
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Martha
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Plant something that cascades on the cinderblocks. Strawberries come to mind. Lots of flowers do well too and attract pollinators to your food garden items.
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Martha
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4Real Forums : Our Lady's Loom, Larder, and Laundry
Topic: Garden Planning 2014
