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TryingMyBest
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Martha wrote:
A fishing villages being told to abstain from meat is rather silly and they recognized that and still do. |
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The entire Eastern Christian world has historically fasted from fish as well as meat during the major fasting periods (Lent, Advent, Dormition Fast and Apostles Fast) as well as on all wednesdays and fridays. This was a world very dependent upon seafood since most of it borders the Mediterranean.
The traditional fast in the Eastern Church is to abstain from all meat, dairy, oil (some say the prohibition applies only to olive oil) and wine for about half of the year. Fish is allowed on certain days during the Fasts. Lent is the strictest fast and fish is allowed only on the Annunciation and Palm Sunday. Wine and oil are allowed on weekends but not meat, dairy or fish.
Jenn
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Erica Sanchez
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I think my point about the traditional fasting and abstinence requirements (the ones pre-1962 or whenever they were changed, not 1000+ years ago) versus what the Church currently requires of us (it is required!) makes for a rather interesting side-by-side comparison. Has anyone seen it? We go to an FSSP parish and the first time I looked at the two side-by-side I was surprised. The pre-1962 requirements are NOT required of us now as Ember Day fasting and abstinence is not, I know, but I see value in trying to do more than Fridays of Lent and Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Jenn, Canon Law is what we should all follow and more traditional ways, if they have been changed over the years like the requirements for fasting and abstinence, can be done and the Church even says they are good. The Church just lifted the pain of sin (I think that is how it is worded). It doesn't mean that we shouldn't do them if we feel called to or that they weren't good to begin with. It means that if someone can't for whatever reason, there is no pain of sin.
Is the Fisheaters site Pius X? I thought it was and if it is, we need to be careful about the content there. If it is not, I am sorry for asking.
Huge tangent! Sorry! But, food is something we need and eating something we do everyday and culturally food is so much a part of our faith in the fastings and the feastings.
Lindsay, I like your post. Very interesting. Peanut butter! Sugar! Bread! For us, I thought trying to go meatless on all Fridays of the year would be easy as I didn't think we ate that much meat but it was surprisingly hard. But, there is no pain of sin if we eat meat so it takes the burden off if we haven't planned accordingly. And, truly, sugar is so much more addicting and so hard to give up.....for me.
Martha, I get the Whole 30. I see the value in it and I believe in it. I am doing it! :) I think I mentioned that I don't think I have food issues, so I was just trying to be funny about Day 31. :) There are things that are off-limits for the 30 days (dairy, all grains, alcohol, sugar, legumes) if you are really going to do the 30 days like they want you to. Then you add them back in. I get it.
I've read nutritional magazines and blogs for about 15 years and there is always a latest and greatest. I keep saying that pretty soon coconut oil is going to be out. Who knows what the 'experts' will say next year or in five. Again, just trying to be funny and keep things in perspective.
Blessings to all!
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(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Jan 10 2014 at 6:49pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
A gentle caution: Martha's information from the Fisheaters website is very helpful (thanks, Martha!), but it's important to keep in mind that this website, overall, tends to ignore post-Vatican II information. For more on this, see Catholic Culture's review of the site.
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Oh, thank you for this, Nancy. I thought that to be the case and asked about it in my last post. I am glad you mentioned it.
Off to cook something paleo with something added in to fill my nine children's bellies (potatoes or rice most likely).
God bless!
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Erica in San Diego
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Willa
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I've been following this thread since early in the week. Now that I am close to menopause, I have a different metabolism, and the pounds are slowly accumulating.
Last time I lost more than a few pounds and kept it off, I started with the Atkins diet, and it worked well for me to drop most of the grains from my eating for at least a couple of weeks and then add them very slowly back in. So this Whole30 sounded interesting to me and easier to follow than Atkins, since I can eat fruit and higher glycemic vegetables.
I don't think that the philosophical/scientific arguments against grains and alcohol are very sound -- that our Paleolithic ancestors ate that way and we are still set by evolution to thrive with that type of fare.
Every culture has a grain staple food, and alcohol is universal, and there are obvious Eucharistic connections with bread and wine.
Still I do also think most of our modern grains are overprocessed and impoverished and so many people seem to be doing so badly with standard First World diet that I can see "detoxing" from the grains for a certain time period, like the Whole30 recommends.
I'm guessing most of these diets that limit carbs show good results because you naturally have to avoid most processed foods and eat way more vegetables and fruit.
I found this site:
Monastery Food
Some nice quotes on food there as well as explanation of (Eastern, I think) monastery eating habits.
The main philosophy seems to be to keep food intake moderate. In that regard it seems like the Whole30 make some good points that many modern food choices are extreme in taste and don't promote moderation, to say the least.
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Willa
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 10 2014 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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TryingMyBest wrote:
Martha wrote:
A fishing villages being told to abstain from meat is rather silly and they recognized that and still do. |
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The entire Eastern Christian world has historically fasted from fish as well as meat during the major fasting periods (Lent, Advent, Dormition Fast and Apostles Fast) as well as on all wednesdays and fridays. This was a world very dependent upon seafood since most of it borders the Mediterranean.
The traditional fast in the Eastern Church is to abstain from all meat, dairy, oil (some say the prohibition applies only to olive oil) and wine for about half of the year. Fish is allowed on certain days during the Fasts. Lent is the strictest fast and fish is allowed only on the Annunciation and Palm Sunday. Wine and oil are allowed on weekends but not meat, dairy or fish.
Jenn
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I think there is an area of prudence here that you are enjoying, Jenn. Prudence allows for a different answer to the same question: fasting/abstaining. A person's prudential choices in fasting/abstaining (that are beyond what Holy Mother Church currently asks of her children) need not be "a hill to die on." In other words -- great if this is the path you choose for yourself! And -- great if you choose to follow current fasting/abstaining requirements! Both are right answers.
However...
The historical fasting practices of the Eastern church have nothing whatsoever to do with the original poster's question:
Mom21 wrote:
| In 2013 I turned 50, started menopause and have gained about 10 pounds!!! I am considering a low carb diet to take off some weight. Has anyone had success with low carb? Any ideas or suggestions are most appreciated!! |
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Thank you for keeping your replies in context with the question asked.
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Martha
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TryingMyBest wrote:
The entire Eastern Christian world has historically fasted from fish as well as meat during the major fasting periods (Lent, Advent, Dormition Fast and Apostles Fast) as well as on all wednesdays and fridays. This was a world very dependent upon seafood since most of it borders the Mediterranean.
The traditional fast in the Eastern Church is to abstain from all meat, dairy, oil (some say the prohibition applies only to olive oil) and wine for about half of the year. Fish is allowed on certain days during the Fasts. Lent is the strictest fast and fish is allowed only on the Annunciation and Palm Sunday. Wine and oil are allowed on weekends but not meat, dairy or fish.
Jenn
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Yes. Okay. Well I'm not Eastern Orthodox. I'm Roman Catholic. So no, of course I don't look to the eastern churches to decide how I should fast or abstain. I certainly don't look to what they did 200+ years ago.
Nothing against our sisters in the east, but I look to Rome for how to live as a Roman Catholic. And even strict prevat2 (actually pre1980s as that's when it was changed) fasting rules weren't like that. So I don't think this is a TLM vs NO issue either.
Honestly & gently considered, when you have to go back 300+ years and a schism to find a fasting rule stringent enough to satisfy, that starts to seem like some kind of food scrupulosity to me. *worried*
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guitarnan
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I think Jen says it well. Prudential judgment is a personal thing. As a Roman Catholic, I know what the current fasting rules are, and I know what my health status is. (And I know I could stand to lose more than a few pounds.) It's up to me to discern the best path to take for my overall health, and it is up to my husband and me to care for our daughter's health (our son's, too, but he's 22 and 600 miles away, so it's different).
Martha, I so appreciate you sharing your success story and your weight loss journey; I feel more hopeful that I can start along a better path, thinking just a month at a time. That does make it all seem easier!
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SallyT
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Same here. And I have enjoyed the ins and outs of the conversation.
Sally
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SeaStar
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Martha-
Your comments about filling up teens struck home with me. My ds is 11, and he is at the age of being hungry all. the. time. Shoe size went up from 7 in June to 8 in Oct to 9 in Dec.
Trying to keep him filled up in a healthy way has been on my mind. Thanks for your tips!
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cathhomeschool
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I've been following this thread and find the Whole30 idea encouraging. I read a little about it some time back when Martha posted, but I don't remember anything. I would like to lose a couple of pounds but my real problems are acne, arthritis, aches. Our eating habits as a family have deteriorated drastically too. The kids have allergy issues that seem to last longer each year and some of them have trouble sleeping. Maybe something like Whole30 would help us start better eating habits. I like that there is no counting, no exchanges -- doesn't sound too complicated. I won't follow anything that requires that much detail. I have lots of energy when it comes to researching many things but not when it comes to researching and planning with food. And the bonus for us is that half of my kids hate rice, pasta and potatoes and I'm always looking for creative ways to make them yummier for them and it sounds like I wouldn't have to with Whole30! 
Martha, I like the idea of considering the increased grocery costs as part of healthcare. And your comment on being surprised at what you missed and what you didn't is something I've experienced when cleansing in the past. I LOVE sweets, but when I've gotten away from bad eating habits that isn't what I miss.
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Erica Sanchez
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Janette, I think you would like the Whole30. You almost would not need to spend a dime to do it as well. The website is a wonderful resource in itself as well as some great websites they recommend. You have to click around a bit to find things. There is a great shopping list to print and other helps as well. I did sign up for the daily emails and they are filled with encouragement and tips, but what I really like about them is that each night you have to click 'I did it' or 'I didn't'. This was $15.00. If you do it, I would recommend printing out the timeline. That was very helpful for my family.
Two local friends are having their whole family do it, They have older children and are having great success. My Grace is doing a modified plan of eating no dairy, no sugar and no wheat (instead of the no grains). She is trying to see if any of these are contributing to her acne. I am proud of how well she has done.
I did order Well Fed for inspiration and variation. My friends are making all kinds of exotic sounding dishes and I am eating very plainly. I think I can sell Cash on this way of eating if I can manage to make everything taste delicious and not like a diet.
Willa, agree with everything you wrote. I was thinking about the Eucharist yesterday and wine, too. I am eager to spend some time on the site you linked and find others too as the main paleo ones I have read seem secular. Not too new-agey or anything (yet) but just lacking that balance.
I am on day 10 of the Whole30 and doing well. I would be happy to be a cheerleader for anyone just starting out. It is rough in the beginning, but I feel great today! I also feel a little bit like a rabbit because of all the greens I am consuming. :)
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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CrunchyMom
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Erica, if your daughter could manage it, I think high quality cod liver oil would be a good help for acne as well as other ways to boost vit A. I'm pretty sure that Acutane (isn't that the acne drug?) is chiefly a megadose of synthetic vit A, which is why you cannot take it if pregnant, but a natural source would surely be good. Some clo is processed, killing the vit A and replacing it with sy thetic. That might help, too, but higher doses are less concerning with the natural form.
I think that Martha's point earlier about avoiding empty calories and refocusing on nourishing foods is so important. For too long, we have judged health and diet solely on weight, and there is so much more to being healthy than being thin!
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SallyT
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My husband took Accutane in grad school -- it cleared up his horrible acne, but he says it was one of the worst experiences of his life! I hadn't known it was Vitamin A.
Might push cod-liver oil a little harder on my teenagers. Their skin is nowhere near as bad as their dad's was at their ages, but maybe that would help clear it more.
And yes, I think ultimately focusing on real, nutrient-dense food as an overall way of life is the way to go. Someone mentioned Kitchen Stewardship -- I like her blog a lot, too, for looking at these things through the lens of the faith.
Sally
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coconut oil as a moisturizer after washing the face helps too. You don't want to leave the skin without moisturizer because then it signals the body that it's too dry and increases the oil production. And coconut oil has properties that help the skin heal.
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Erica Sanchez
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Thank you for the information and advice about acne. I will pass it along to Grace.
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Erica in San Diego
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cathhomeschool
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Thank you, Erica! My son drastically decreased dairy and I think that it helped with the acne.
I agree with Willa too that the lack of processed foods is probably a big factor in these "diets." That's my goal, really -- to get away from the processed foods.
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I have been behind on jumping in this thread. While I haven't followed a set diet or menu for low-carb, I eat low-carb pretty much all the time. The times I have strayed from that approach has really done havoc to my health.
Interestingly, I found that with my previous heart condition, Hypertrophic Obstructive Cardiomyopathy, that a higher protein, lower carb diet works better for that condition. I just found that out naturally that it worked better for me.
I mostly remove all wheat from my diet. I found I was fighting a lot of inflammation, with a lot of pain mainly in my feet, but really all over just stiff and achey. Wheat and nightshade foods (peppers, tomatoes, potatoes) are the main culprits for me, but sugar and alcohol are also inflammatory.
I haven't approached the no-dairy yet. Right now I only use butter and cream in my decaf coffee. And lately I could go without coffee if necessary. (I slowly weaned off the caffeine, as I was noticing it really affected my heart. I knew I didn't want caffeine withdrawal headaches post surgery, since I would have other pains.) But I haven't missed the caffeine. The coffee is nice sometimes, but not necessary. I find it hard to believe I'm actually typing that.
I know I'm picky about foods, so I'm hesitant embracing any diet, especially these Whole30 or Paleo/Primal approaches which push sweet potatoes and cauliflower and such. I know I have texture issues, and I can't stand those foods...and other ones. I know I would fail miserably in the veggies variety department. I just skip the carbs at my meals, but our family does eat potatoes and rice.
To answer the OP question, I have found that embracing it as a lifestyle has helped me lose weight and keep it off, despite different medications and lack of exercise from the last few years. It hasn't been drastic loss, perhaps 15 pounds, but it slowly continues to go down.
I personally have a problem with diets that pose as "the one" that God intends. The Church has never dictated mandates on how to eat or dress because this is an area of prudence and also influenced by cultural, geographical, and economical conditions.
I've posted here before that the idea of paleo/primal being the way that God intended people to eat is quite ludicrous in my mind. This doesn't take into account that in the past not all foods are available throughout the year, nor were they available in all geographic regions. Adam and Eve were created for work before the Fall, Gen. 2:15: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it."
To me this means grain and other use of animal by products were available and worked even before the Fall.
But that's just opinion. I personally can't handle too many grains, and I probably could achieve more health by trying a Paleo AutoImmune diet, or Whole30 for a bit to rectify intestinal problems, but one thing at a time.
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One thing that I have noticed as I get older is that I feel better overall if I eat less- smaller meals work much better for me than larger ones.
I try to be aware of when I am full and stop eating, especially at night.
Eating a big, heavy meal and then lying in bed is just not fun for me  .
Also, I try to eat at the table and not do anything else while I eat. Only when I am done eating do I move onto another task. I find that helps portion control, also. Usually I am wanting to move onto something else- laundry, reading, whatever- and don't feel like sitting at the table just to keep eating.
When I get lazy and eat lunch in front of the computer or while reading a book, I tend to eat much more.
And, honestly, while I know that metabolism slows as we age and have felt the burn of this, I have to admit that often I eat more and am less active now then when I was 20. Maybe it's because I have to cook and prepare more meals now with a family- food tends to be on my mind a lot as far as meal planning and prep. But still- I can honestly say I eat more now than I did then. No wonder weight creeps up!
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Willa
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Since reading this thread I have been trying a modified Whole30. I am calling it a trial run because I want to see what the hard parts will be and compensate for those -- so I can do a second run-through during Lent. Then eventually I am going to try a family run-through. It will be challenging because they are fussy eaters and like their carbs. I will probably do a modified version for them too.
I see after about 10 days that my worst challenge is keeping away from carbs in the evening. Not sure why except I am probably more tired and my resistance is lower.
On the other hand, keeping away from carbs during the day has given me a lot more energy than I did have, so I am seeing progress. And far less bloating and indigestion.
I am not spending extra money -- I am not worried about buying organic meat and so on right now. So I just eat the meat and vegetables part of whatever I am serving my family for dinner.
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Willa
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4Real Forums : Our Lady of Good Remedy and Care
Topic: Low carb diet for weight loss
