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Angie Mc
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I strongly believe that teens are at a disadvantage if they do not have a smart phone. My 18 year old son has only 1 friend who doesn't have one and he is "left out" not because he isn't wonderful but because of the "difficulty" in communicating with him as perceived by his peers. For example, and outing to the movies is planned, agreed upon, and started before anyone can connect with this friend. Now that's just a little social example, but this happens time and time again for this kid.
Shop around for phone plans and the best advice I have is to get everyone in the family on the same plan with the same phone. Most carriers are just awful; another price we pay  .
I think it's one thing for an adult to choose for themselves to limit communication via all technology. It is a completely different thing to limit their 18 year old's. Just seems irrational to me, especially when the 18 year old is willing to pay all associated costs.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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MarilynW
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I agree with you Angie. Whilst for me not having a smartphone is not really a problem - I am at home a lot and always available by phone or email or texting with my laptop and dumb phone. But for teens it is a different matter.
But the cost factor remains....for parents budgets already tight with college costs etc, it is hard to figure it in. And for teens already helping to pay for their college by working several jobs, paying for a smartphone may not be possible.
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Marilyn
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CrunchyMom
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Angie Mc wrote:
I strongly believe that teens are at a disadvantage if they do not have a smart phone. My 18 year old son has only 1 friend who doesn't have one and he is "left out" not because he isn't wonderful but because of the "difficulty" in communicating with him as perceived by his peers. For example, and outing to the movies is planned, agreed upon, and started before anyone can connect with this friend. Now that's just a little social example, but this happens time and time again for this kid.
Shop around for phone plans and the best advice I have is to get everyone in the family on the same plan with the same phone. Most carriers are just awful; another price we pay .
I think it's one thing for an adult to choose for themselves to limit communication via all technology. It is a completely different thing to limit their 18 year old's. Just seems irrational to me, especially when the 18 year old is willing to pay all associated costs.
Love, |
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I know I'm out of the loop on these things, but how are these events being planned that specifically require a smart phone? Can't you still send and receive texts on a regular phone and plan?
I do think that an iPod touch could fill a need for access to e-mail and the like for many teens if they regularly have access to WiFi at work and home. It has all the capabilities of a smart phone if there is wifi access without the additional monthly fees for data plans, and a pay as you go phone might be a less costly option for those who want to stay in the loop via texts but can't justify the high monthly cost.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Angie Mc
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CrunchyMom wrote:
I know I'm out of the loop on these things, but how are these events being planned that specifically require a smart phone? Can't you still send and receive texts on a regular phone and plan?
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Lindsay, I think it is the mindset. He simply doesn't use his dumb phone they way his peers use their smart phone. He forgets it. He let's the battery die. He misplaces it. His parents take it from him. He's told not to have it with him (at the table, at grandma's, at...) He can't send himself reminders, He can't access Facebook or twitter or any other social media. So I can see where all of this can be worked around...but I think there needs to be a super good reason for all the work arounds.
Yes a smart phone can be costly, but for all that it does, I think there can be a good argument made for making it a financial priority. Comparable to gas for the car.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mackfam
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AngieMc wrote:
| teens are at a disadvantage if they do not have a smart phone. |
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Strongly agree. Reading through Angie's entire reply, I do not disagree with anything she said.
MarilynW wrote:
| I have a question - "will our teens actually be able to survive without a smartphone?" |
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Survive? Certainly. If this is a family priority, then yes, survival will not be stunted. However, if you want to know if social skills, social navigation, social opportunities, and learning to appropriately communicate via tech devices and social media will be stunted if you avoid a smartphone - then my answer would also be yes.
There is a consequence for every decision we make as parents, and as with all the biggies where there is so much gray, this one comes down to a matter of family prudence and priorities. If it's a priority to avoid a smartphone, then understand that what Angie says is what will likely happen. Other teens will plan get-togethers via their phone. Certainly, text provides some connectability, but so does f/b and twitter. Some college professors will post syllabi and updates via social media. They will expect an understanding of social media and integrate it as part of their classroom experience.
MarilynW wrote:
| it seems to me that everyone expects teens (and adults?) to have them. |
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This is true for the most part. Social media has allowed for connection and communication via "smart" devices and regardless of any personal preference, it is the reality we live in. So, you're right in observing that this is the expectation.
MarilynW wrote:
| I have a child juggling school and a job - and everyone expects the child to be constantly available and checking mail. And the expectation also seems to be that everyone has a data plan. |
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I have a child managing school, social life, and a job as well. This is one of the primary reasons we DO have a smartphone for this child: so that the child can be connected and LEARN to manage that. Just because you *can* text/email/or receive a f/b alert...just because you are so *connected*...doesn't mean that the child needs to make themselves completely available 24/7. This is a skill that is learned - managing those connections that come with a smartphone.
MarilynW wrote:
| So on this note - how do you afford it? |
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If we're talking about an adult child, or even an older child with a job, then they pay for it. Or at least pay the difference or part of it. While it isn't cheap, since it is something we've found is a priority, we find ways to make it fit. It would be hard to give practicals since everyone's budget is different and stretches in different ways.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| but how are these events being planned that specifically require a smart phone? Can't you still send and receive texts on a regular phone and plan? |
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Sometimes events are planned through social media. Texts can go a long way toward helping a child remain connected, but as they get older, it seems social media becomes more important to know how to navigate safely, with wisdom and moderation.
I'll give you an example of managing social media.
Set up: Child's parents allow use of f/b, but have given strict guidelines about NEVER posting real-time location updates to facebook: example - "Just finished studying for exams and the girls are enjoying a break at so-and-so's pizza joint and then we're going shopping at blah-blah mall." (often kids drop a "pin" which allows for a pinpointed location to so-and-so's pizza joint or the mall.)
Scenario: Child's friend doesn't have the same rules, and posts the above real-time announcement to her facebook page, drops a location pin, AND tags your child in the picture she just snapped with her phone from across the table. Your child gets a f/b alert announcing that she's just been "tagged" in a picture. She knows what to do. She immediately goes in (via smartphone) and untags herself from the picture (she can reverse this later if she wants), and she makes a judgement call about continuing on with the group to the "just announced to the entire world" shopping extravaganza...as well as her further involvement with a group that announces their comings and goings on f/b.
--------------------------------------------
I completely made that up (that hasn't happened to us). But I wanted to give an example of how social media can be used via a smartphone.
And...since that was a not-so-positive example above, I really want to make sure I say that we choose to have a smartphone for mostly positive reasons  , but we don't shy away from ways this device (and social media) can be mis-used either. I do think that because social media and a smartphone is so widely used, you could make a pretty strong argument for the need to both finance and learn to wisely use and enjoy this device in much the same way you might prioritize a class/sport for a child. Is a class/sport/smartphone necessary for survival? No. But, do they all help the child socially: in learning how to navigate a variety of social circumstances with wisdom and eventual experience, while sometimes opening doors to opportunities? Yep.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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Cross posting with Angie...again. I blabbed on and wasn't keeping up! 
I did want to say that I do think it's important for individual families to find the right fit for THEIR FAMILY! And I know that can look different! I also really wanted to provide some reasonable ways and what I observe to be pretty significant reasons NOT to completely eschew the smartphone.
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Jen Mackintosh
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MarilynW
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Thank you for your views.
It has given me something to ponder. Although I am not always on board with the latest technology for myself (partly price and partly me!) my husband and I make sure that our kids are able to use the technology and that they are aware of social and moral implications. Our older kids are generally wise and responsible with technology. The price however is a huge factor. We have to be wise with this. eg. we volunteer for a food bank charity - where many families have no food, no money to pay rent etc, but everyone has the latest smartphone!!! So, we have to make sure that our financial priorities are right too.
Thanks again for the thoughts.
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guitarnan
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We use Virgin Mobile - pay as you go. $35 per month for 400 minutes, unlimited texting and unlimited data (there's a high speed data allowance, and the rest is lower speed...but none of us has ever used up the allowance).
The flip side is that you have to buy the phone outright, and iPhones are super-expensive. My son and I have LGs (he bought his) and my daughter has an HTC (that she also bought). I calculated that we started saving money 4-5 months in, based on the cost of a data plan for an iPhone.
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knowloveserve
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I wanted to add that I think there is a large difference between a 14-15 year old with a smartphone... and a 17-18 year old with a smartphone... especially when the latter is employed and paying for it themselves.
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Angie Mc
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MarilynW wrote:
| eg. we volunteer for a food bank charity - where many families have no food, no money to pay rent etc, but everyone has the latest smartphone!!! So, we have to make sure that our financial priorities are right too. |
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I've also worked in shelters and find that the fewer large items a person/family has (home, car, computer), the more important it is to have some really nice smaller things. It's a dignity thing. Think inner city bling  . (The darker side also includes those who see all sorts of uses for smart phone technology to enable wrong behavior.)
I don't disrespect any family who comes to a decision together that makes sense for them. In the one case I mentioned, it isn't about money and it isn't a family decision that includes the 18yo's point of view.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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MarilynW
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guitarnan wrote:
We use Virgin Mobile - pay as you go. $35 per month for 400 minutes, unlimited texting and unlimited data (there's a high speed data allowance, and the rest is lower speed...but none of us has ever used up the allowance).
The flip side is that you have to buy the phone outright, and iPhones are super-expensive. My son and I have LGs (he bought his) and my daughter has an HTC (that she also bought). I calculated that we started saving money 4-5 months in, based on the cost of a data plan for an iPhone. |
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Thank you for this Nancy - it is super helpful. It seems a reasonable option. More expensive that we have now - we pay $7/month for each phone - we all have tracfones. And the phones did not cost much. But it seems better than any other plan I have seen.
The funny thing for us - my children do not think they need smartphones - it is ME worrying about whether they do!!! One child is doing everything to afford her college - very carefully budgeting, working, studying and has a great social life. This child would rather save her money for her school costs. Even the other teenagers have never asked for them - they keep up with their friends, church, jobs without smartphones. The younger teens are lucky to have a great network where nobody is really into smartphones.
I just want to make sure that they have the tools they need to succeed.
(or maybe as they go to college I just want to be able to contact them!!!)
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Marilyn
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guitarnan
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At college, I think a smartphone is a must. My son goes to school in a tornado-prone area and the university texts students when a tornado warning is issued. He's also more likely to check text messages than email.
The only downsides to our VM phones are: you can't add an international plan (we can get one for my air card, though, so we use that and email when we are in, say, Canada) and the coverage is via the Sprint network, which isn't too hot in very rural areas. You'd definitely want to check coverage maps for your home/childrens' colleges when looking into VM.
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Angie Mc
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MarilynW wrote:
The funny thing for us - my children do not think they need smartphones - it is ME worrying about whether they do!!! One child is doing everything to afford her college - very carefully budgeting, working, studying and has a great social life. This child would rather save her money for her school costs. Even the other teenagers have never asked for them - they keep up with their friends, church, jobs without smartphones. The younger teens are lucky to have a great network where nobody is really into smartphones.
I just want to make sure that they have the tools they need to succeed.
(or maybe as they go to college I just want to be able to contact them!!!)
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Oh this is wonderful, Marilyn! If your teen isn't feeling a need for one, then by all means go with that. These smart phones really are "smart" in that they are intuitive and super user friendly, so I don't think the learning curve is very great. Any teen can get up and running fast when the time comes
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Angie Mc
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knowloveserve wrote:
| I wanted to add that I think there is a large difference between a 14-15 year old with a smartphone... and a 17-18 year old with a smartphone... especially when the latter is employed and paying for it themselves. |
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Right! So it is the transition, and how each family wants to handle it, that is the fun part  . I lean heavily toward listening to my teens, even my young teens, to what they want and when regarding technology, then we work together to find something that will work for all involved.
I have a dearly beloved relative who is flat out too young to have a smartphone, but she does. I got wind of something she was doing online that was age inappropriate and sent word through one of my kids to tell her to stop immediately or she would have to talk to me. She stopped .
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Martha
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I'll gather my pennies to toss into the conversation...
We have 5 iPhones here. Dh and I have the newest versions (purchased as refurbished models) and the other three are our previous phones. (Iow, no we did not prop down several grand to buy 5 iPhone5s brand new.  )
We are grandfathered into the most awesome of awesome data packs. Unlimited EVERYTHING. Text, data, calls. All unlimited.
However!
With freedom comes responsibility. My rule of thumb is that the teen phones are kept on the fireplace mantle most of the time. (You can hear them ring or ding almost anywhere in the house from my fireplace.) I have this rule because of what I call "phone creeping" and "web vortex". As in we are doing whatever and suddenly the phone has creeped into their hand and they are lost into the web. Seriously. What are you doing? I was checking the family calendar and then I remembered... And wait.. How'd I end up here? LOL
One son has a FB account and has a whopping 15 friends of which most are family. Personally? I'm strict about FB. I don't think every stupid thing *I* did as a teen should come back to bite me in the rear and I don't think it should for my kids either. Most of his FB is pining for lasagna, setting up heroclix matches, or sharing excitement about flying. No big deal at all. We've talked that "friends" need to really be friends. Not your boss. Not your commander. Not your coworker. Not your teachers. Not some random whoever you don't really know.
We also discussed that these phones are for emergency use, family use, and personal convienence, in that order. Their cell numbers should not be shared like M&Ms.
Much like letter writing, what they write (or photo share) in email, text, or social media can be shared forever and in court. So if at all possible, personal interaction and hearing a voice is preferred. When not possible, keep it professional. If they don't want mom or a priest or a cop to see it? Then one, don't type it or take the photo to start with. And two, for their own sake, don't document being stupid.
They haven't much complained about the social aspect yet. So either it isn't messing with them much or they are somewhat typical oblivious teen boys, iykwim?
My oldest had his phone taken a few months ago. He wasn't inappropriate with it, but has shown a lack of ... appreciation...for our finances. Gee. nit typical at all for an 18 year old, huh. And really had no idea how ridiculously awesome our phone plan is. Which brings up another point. Having a data plan isn't enough. Most can't just use it willy-nilly unless you want one scary phone bill. So anyways. We told him he could have it back when he could afford to pay his portion of the bill. He thought he could get a better plan, so dh took him shopping for cell phones and plans (because if he isn't on our plan, we'll take the phone and use it to add someone else to the plan).
Ds was shocked and horrified at how much he would pay a month to use a smartphone and use it as often as he was previously. He is quite thrilled now to pay us a portion of our much cheaper family plan.
For us, smart phones haven't been too difficult. It's really not that much harder than general rules for a private laptop with Internet access. And most parents would readily admit that sending a teen to college without a laptop and Internet is creating a major burden for them climb to succeed at classes.
However, none of my teens have their own car either, so things like impromptu movies don't happen very often, even if we could afford to do that on a regular basis. We have to negotiate the vehicles around 3 jobs and 2 kids in school, plus home schooling and general grocery store type stuff.
I would also say that our policy after some experience with older kids is that under age 16 is too young for a cellphone, especially a smartphone. YMMV, but that's my view. They are just having too many brain farts from puberty and still too youthfully spontaneous to have to also deal with the possible repercussions of being forever embedded in the www. Again, just my opinion.
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Martha
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MarilynW
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Sort of related question - with all this technology, how do you protect privacy.
(ETA: this video from NBC news segment mentions how to protect privacy by turning off geotracking - Smartphone pictures pose privacy risk)
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Angie Mc
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Popping in to post this article: iPhone or Android?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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Martha
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I love our iPhones. I do wish that apple had parental controlable accounts and the lack of any carrier really offering that is another reason why I feel rather strongly that kids (at least MY kids) under 16 shouldn't have smart phones.
But at 16 I just hand them the phone with the understanding that it is My phone, not theirs. We pay the bill, we bought the phone, and I don't care how convienent it is or how much they "need", I will yank it away in a NYC minute if I feel they can't handle it responsibly and maturely and safely.
Some basic rules:
Do not ever share it ir leave it laying about. It is not to ever leave their hand unless its to be in their pocket, charging next to their bed or on the fireplace mantle. The end. No exceptions. If I find out they loaned, shared, or whatever - no phone. I do explain that it's because it only takes moments to download stalker software or hack info. But also because I don't want them contributing to some other kid doing something they shouldn't. If someone else wants to use their iPhone, they can go buy their own. Or it getting broken or whatever. It's an expensive piece of tech. They can't be treating it like some TV remote, kwim?
Turn off all possible location requests on any apps or software. (Pictures FB whatever)
I do not give my kids the account passwords. Not to the phones and not to our home wifi. One, they can't misuse it or accidently share it (people looking over their shoulder for example) and Two, it allows me final access to their iPhone should I ever need it. (So far I have not.)
They are not supposed to delete the history on their usage. At any time anywhere, I retain the right to spot check their phones. And I do. So far I have not caught them doing anything wrong, but I have caught other kids sending them inappropriate stuff. (Nothing like sexting or drugs or major stuff thank heavens, but just some stuff that spurred conversation I hadn't thought to have before. )
Their contact list is my contact list. Anyone they have in their contacts list is also on mine. I've never needed to actually contact them, but it's a precaution.
And lastly, treat it like the Internet. Because it is. Which means you do not have control over it. (I've yet to be impressed by any parental controls of the Internet. IMO, they all stink.) and it's going to require you be extra vigilant. It just is. Just like when they get old enough to walk or ride their bike outside the neighborhood or drive, you just don't know where that can end up. You have a good idea, an expectation, hope, and so forth and 95% of the time it all goes well. But sometimes you get the unexpected and you just deal with it.
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Kristie 4
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Just another perspective I have two older teens, one that is not extremely social, and one who is very social and in very active acting troupes that put on heaps of performances for a big festival here each year. In her group only one kid has a smartphone- only 1/2 or a little more carry phones at all. They FB one another from home computers or laptops or ipods (most of them do have ipods- but there are still 3-4 that don't even use those), and phone one another and generally hang out a lot. Most of these kids come from super active two parent but only one parent working homes and the cell phones don't often fit their family plan, but more than that, I think the kids have developed a youth culture that isn't plugged in instantly a lot. The boys all make music, design video games etc. but they aren't on cell phones and social media a lot. None of these kids are 'outlawed' from cell phones in that their parents aren't against them.
Just another perspective that at least in our little corner of a downtown major Canadian city, the kids I know haven't felt any lack by the cell phone lack
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Kristie in Canada
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leanne maree
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Thanks Martha and everyone for a fruitful conversation.
It has been very enlightening.
There are many valid reasons for and against, but as our children are heading into ths world eventually, I believe we as there first teachers should guide and teach this area as well.
We are at the moment allowing dd 15 access to our Facebook account and other forums that I can keep an eye on her and how she navigates them and how to respond to others.
Txting doesn't seem to be think anymore. Facebook chatting etc are how dds friends keep in contact.
I have asked dd to continue to use our Facebook account when we get a smart phone for her
I have explained the reasoning behind it.
Just recently she made a very innocent correct comment to a girl from her ballet school and all of a sudden the conversation stopped.
I asked to read the comments( I already had been on another device), and explained what may have upset ths girl and how to correct it.
So yes Martha smartphones aren't just phones they are the Internet as well.
So at present dd has her little Nokia for emergencies to take to ballet. Has free access on both my iphone and our iPad.
I am so pleased that we have a trusting open relationship , so I can to help navigate until its time to let her have her own wings.
Leanne
__________________
God is Love
Leanne
Loving wife to Dermot and Adoring mother to Louise, Kristie, Kieran & Brid
http://leannemaree.blogspot.com/
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Smart phones and teens
