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Mackfam
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SallyT wrote:
| And although this is off-topic from Becca's question, I too would like to hear more about Mills' medieval and Renaissance books. |
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I'm sorry I don't know anything about these.  I'd be interested to hear anyone's experiences with these as well! 
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Jen Mackintosh
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JennGM
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Sorry if this is off-topic, but would you also recommend her books on the Middle Ages and the Renaissance and Reformation? With so many of these wonderful old authors, the ancient stuff it great but their bias becomes more of an issue in those time periods.  |
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Isn't it unfortunate that these titles are not available online? I don't have them, I'm sorry to say, so I can't offer any preview or review! I wish I could.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Becca
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I just figured out how to quote people!
Mackfam wrote:
I've used it loosely for several years, Becca. It's a good guide, but it's different than a spine (one book that sort of anchors a history period for a year) in that it's a whole history curriculum...so it has suggestions for spines as well as many, many living books for a particular period.
I ended up using it mostly as a booklist, and less as a guide, though there are some really workable ideas in there. Having said that, my copy is pretty old...I think I bought it when Sonya first published it and that's been years ago. She's done some nice things with the revisions since then.
It functions very well as a guide AND a booklist if/when:
** you are a first time homeschooler
** not certain about the context of a period of history
** unsure how to build a multi-age booklist around a period of history
** need help (with words) in putting history within a larger context - the context of Salvation History
** really need help tying extra parts of your curriculum in to a book (copywork, poetry, maps, hands on work, illustrations, book of centuries/timeline work)
My personal take on RC History: used in entirety it can be overwhelming. So...given that...it is still a fantastic history curriculum (guide and booklist based on living books) and can work really well as long as you look over it with an eye toward:
** how you work/plan/execute as a homeschool mom
** how many children you have
** their reading abilities
** your own comfort level/inclination toward extras (like crafts, projects, etc.)
** your personal/family home education philosophy (ie: are you a Charlotte Mason homeschooler? unschooler? prefer a text/test/out of the box program?) You'll probably want to tweak and make use of different aspects of the program based on WHO you are as a family of home educators.
...and then just implement the program in a way that fits your family. Don't be afraid to adjust - it doesn't make the guide or booklist any less valuable! |
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Thanks! I usually use a spine to keep us on track and then add books as we go but I think if I'm using Connecting with History I won't really need one because it'll tell me what books each week. I also like that it'll give me all those extras and just is all right there basically. I also hope to get in a weekly routine with it for example do writing assignments this day, timeline this day, etc. 
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cheesehead mom
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So ladies, if I wanted to do an ancient history year for my elementary middle schoolers (we do a 4-5 year history plan)and wanted something different that SOTW with old testament bible history (this is what we did previously along with some living books for older kidos)...would it work to do Famous Men of Egypt, Famous Men of Greece then Famous Men of Rome over an academic year? And do I need the guides to FM of G and all as I have the texts?
Thanks so much.
laura
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Kristie 4
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That would be LOTS, depending on how many extra books you add on. We have done two in a year, but that year we read less of the extra books that gel with the period. If I was to drop one it would be the Egypt, or just read it a chapter a day...just my .02!
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I'm not sure how I missed this thread! Obviously I need to add Across Time and Space to my notifications. I was pretty set on reading Guerber's Story of the Ancient Greeks next year(4th grade, mostly following MA 2A year 1) along with independent/free reading of Famous Men of Greece as my son loves all things Greek, but hadn't purchased. Jenn, Jen, and Caroline, could any of you comment on what you prefer about Dorothy Mill's Greek book?
Book of the Ancient Greeks
Would you also recommend an old copy of these or the Memoria, ladies? Too many choices! By the way, this would likely be independently read and narrated, by a 9 year old who reads at least at a 6th-7th grade level.
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SallyT
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I would think that a year with three Haaren Famous Men books *might* be overwhelming -- they're excellent but long. As I merge my rising 4th- and 5th-graders back into Mater Amabilis this year, I'm planning to have the 4th grader do Level 2/Year 1 history using Famous Men of Greece, and the 5th grader read Famous Men of Rome, per recommendations for Level 2/Year 2. Then, because we're also doing British history via Our Island Story, I'm adding Famous Men of the Middle Ages to our read-aloud basket for one day a week, to provide some larger context, but mostly for enjoyment and interest, not because I'd be holding them accountable for that information.
On the other hand, say you set up your year in trimesters of 12 weeks each. Each Haaren book has approximately 30 chapters (give or take -- I haven't gone through and counted them all carefully just now, and I haven't seen the Egypt one at all -- *is* there a Famous Men of Egypt? I never knew!). If you scheduled readings in each book so that the student covered three chapters a week, or possibly four, then you could easily do a book in a trimester, with maybe one "outside" novel geared to that historical period which the child would read over the course of the trimester. That could be pretty doable for an older elementary/early middle school child, though my own preference, which kind of corresponds to MA, is to take a year per civilization. Still, I think either way could work.
Sally
eta: I've been going back and forth about my 4th grader's Greek-history reading. F.J. Gould's Children's Plutarch is another possibility, since I already have it. But I'm OCD enough to want *everyone* to be reading Famous Men, because . . . because . . . that's so tidy! And then our Books of Centuries can be "Famous Men"-oriented, and that's so tidy, too. I kind of think I need to get a grip, but on the other hand, this does objectively make some sense . . .
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JennGM
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AmandaV wrote:
I'm not sure how I missed this thread! Obviously I need to add Across Time and Space to my notifications. I was pretty set on reading Guerber's Story of the Ancient Greeks next year(4th grade, mostly following MA 2A year 1) along with independent/free reading of Famous Men of Greece as my son loves all things Greek, but hadn't purchased. Jenn, Jen, and Caroline, could any of you comment on what you prefer about Dorothy Mill's Greek book?
Book of the Ancient Greeks
Would you also recommend an old copy of these or the Memoria, ladies? Too many choices! By the way, this would likely be independently read and narrated, by a 9 year old who reads at least at a 6th-7th grade level. |
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I bought an old copy. My 9/10 year old is similar to you, reading at a much higher level. I picked Mills not because it was a "better than" but just something I wanted to try. I figured the other Greek books he would lap up in his spare reading...which he does voraciously.
My thinking at the time was Caroline had recommended Mills since the Ambleside Schools used it. The book was stretching the view that "living books" didn't have to be completely narrative, but could look a little more textbooky and still fit the bill. After I saw Jen in Denver and she was talking about Mills, I thought I would give it a try.
What I did like about the Mills Greek after working on it this year (we didn't finish, as I had a lost year) is the discussions lead into archeology, also. She presents photos and mentions the historical finds. So our narrations expanded more here into seeing the present day.
I'm not sure if that makes sense....
But for what it's worth, I didn't even crack Guerber and MacGregor once I decided to go with Mills, so I can't really compare.
I bought the older copies, so I could have hardcover and the maps. I'm not sure if Memoria's has the maps.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Mackfam
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AmandaV wrote:
| could any of you comment on what you prefer about Dorothy Mill's Greek book? |
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I think I might have Guerber's book on my ipad (part of my Yesterday's Classics-every-single-book-in-digital-form purchase), but I haven't read it yet so I can't compare. I suspect that both books are very good - just different styles. Like Jenn, I didn't necessarily choose because I thought one book was *better than*. I already had Mills' book on my shelf (inherited from my mom who used it with my brother and sister), and when I reviewed it for reading several years ago, I just liked it so much that I knew I didn't need to find another book.
I really like Mills' writing style and my kids seem to enjoy it. It is rich and meaty, so it's a slow and steady read here. Other points about Mills' book that I particularly like:
** Her coverage of the Greeks is so good! She gives a fantastic birds eye view of the Greeks!
** She has *A day in the life...* or *Life in...* type chapters sprinkled throughout and these are very engaging and really help in visualizing life and culture of that period.
** The pictures, map, chronological chart are helpful tools.
** All my kids really enjoy her chapter on the Olympic Games. Since we enjoy the Olympics so much as a family, this chapter was wonderful history and context of the games and very interesting!
** You get a sense of history, culture, geography, legend, myth, theater, and many significant figures - all from one well written book.
** This book narrates well. It does stretch a narrator because it's meaty, so this might be a consideration for someone. The younger/less experienced the narrator, the slower I would read this book so it can be enjoyed and narrated well.
If you have an advanced reader, Amanda, this could be a really good fit for your reader.
AmandaV wrote:
| Would you also recommend an old copy of these or the Memoria, ladies? |
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As a general rule, I prefer originals because over the years I have accidentally stumbled across so many wonderful treasures that were in original books, that aren't included in reprints. Things like pocket maps, foldout maps, color plates vs. b/w, charts and resource material that were left out entirely, etc.
But in this case, it's a toss-up because I do like Memoria Press reprints. Their reprints are quality font, on nice glossy paper with color pics that Memoria adds in. I find their picture additions to be fantastic additions and this throws significant weight to the Memoria Press reprints for me. Ultimately, it's why I used their reprints for the Famous Men of... books.
If the Memoria Press reprint of the Mills' book included the maps and foldout timeline that are in the front of the hardcover original, then I'd probably go with the reprint...or...whichever fit in my budget better and/or whichever was more readily available. If the reprint doesn't include the map/timeline, it would be my pref to have those so I'd hunt down an original.
Adding...like Jenn, we all prefer hardbacks here. Practically speaking, they just last longer since they're being read by multiple kids. In addition, my kids just prefer the "feel" of a hardback, too. So keep in mind that the original is a hardback, and the reprints are larger with heavy glossy cardstock covers.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Kristie 4
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Another vote for the Children's Plutarch. IMHO I find the Mill's books much more appropriate for older readers- because advanced younger readers (and I had some of these) don't have that same ability to think through the history.
One idea is to go on the Baldwin project- they have most of the books mentioned here except the Mills (which is available on Google books). Another thought are the histories by Tappen- my children really enjoyed these. And yet one more thought  is to read amongst many- this is what we did. All the books cover the major characters and points so that we found we could pick and choose chapters out of each of these, as each one covers the material a little differently, some with the more episodic feel and some with a focus on the famous men of the day.
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kristacecilia
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If you were planning to revisit the ancients later- maybe now with a 4th grader and in another 4 or 5 years with a 8th/9th grader- would the Guerber books work well now and the Mills books work well later?
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Krista
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kristacecilia wrote:
| If you were planning to revisit the ancients later- maybe now with a 4th grader and in another 4 or 5 years with a 8th/9th grader- would the Guerber books work well now and the Mills books work well later? |
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If I follow MA, it looks like we'll hit Ancients again in 9th, but I think I'll want something more advanced at that time. In theory his reading will be ready for more than Mills at that point. I think I'll get it and see how he handles it and then if its too much I can buy Guerber or use the mainlesson.com pages. I'd prefer to have it in hand, though.
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Amanda
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Kristie 4
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Actually the Mills can still be great in 9th- we did some of it along with the Edith Hamilton books, the Illiad, Herodotus, Sophocles etc. etc. This was with a kid who was a very advanced reader- it is just that the factual side of history is much different!
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SallyT
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I've just listed Mills as a spine-text alternative in my ancient history course. This has been a very productive conversation!
Sally
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AmandaV
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Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| could any of you comment on what you prefer about Dorothy Mill's Greek book? |
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I think I might have Guerber's book on my ipad (part of my Yesterday's Classics-every-single-book-in-digital-form purchase), but I haven't read it yet so I can't compare. I suspect that both books are very good - just different styles. Like Jenn, I didn't necessarily choose because I thought one book was *better than*. I already had Mills' book on my shelf (inherited from my mom who used it with my brother and sister), and when I reviewed it for reading several years ago, I just liked it so much that I knew I didn't need to find another book.
I really like Mills' writing style and my kids seem to enjoy it. It is rich and meaty, so it's a slow and steady read here. Other points about Mills' book that I particularly like:
** Her coverage of the Greeks is so good! She gives a fantastic birds eye view of the Greeks!
** She has *A day in the life...* or *Life in...* type chapters sprinkled throughout and these are very engaging and really help in visualizing life and culture of that period.
** The pictures, map, chronological chart are helpful tools.
** All my kids really enjoy her chapter on the Olympic Games. Since we enjoy the Olympics so much as a family, this chapter was wonderful history and context of the games and very interesting!
** You get a sense of history, culture, geography, legend, myth, theater, and many significant figures - all from one well written book.
** This book narrates well. It does stretch a narrator because it's meaty, so this might be a consideration for someone. The younger/less experienced the narrator, the slower I would read this book so it can be enjoyed and narrated well.
If you have an advanced reader, Amanda, this could be a really good fit for your reader. |
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I don't think Guerber's History of the Greeks is in the ebook pack, Jen, as I don't have it. It is free on mainlesson.com and other sites, so I am going to preview it.
Thanks for the great details on your review, Jen! I am still thinking about using this but I know Guerber is good too and we were also going to read the Famous Men of Greece as free reading. Since we will hit Ancient Greece in high school one more time I am wondering if I should save Mills for then, as Krista suggested. I'm thinking of getting Mills for myself to read as he reads Guerber. I'm curious what grade you used Mills for this year, or was it read as a family?
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Amanda
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Mackfam
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AmandaV wrote:
| I don't think Guerber's History of the Greeks is in the ebook pack, Jen, as I don't have it. |
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Well, you had me doubting so I took a look, and I have all of Guerber's books, including his History of the Greeks from my Yesterday's Classics ebook collection.
AmandaV wrote:
| Since we will hit Ancient Greece in high school one more time I am wondering if I should save Mills for then, as Krista suggested. |
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You certainly could, but I'm typically choosing much meatier reading for high school, Ancient History: Plutarch's Lives, the Dryden translation, The Greek Way by Edith Hamilton, some Aristotle, Plato, Great Books authors, etc. Now, I'm not saying that you *couldn't* assign Mills in high school, and it would make a wonderful family read aloud at that time, but it isn't what I'd consider high school level reading.
AmandaV wrote:
| I'm curious what grade you used Mills for this year, or was it read as a family? |
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8th grade. I think it fits well 5th - 8th grade.
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Jen Mackintosh
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AmandaV
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Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| I don't think Guerber's History of the Greeks is in the ebook pack, Jen, as I don't have it. |
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Well, you had me doubting so I took a look, and I have all of Guerber's books, including his History of the Greeks from my Yesterday's Classics ebook collection. |
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You are correct! I looked through that list just a few days ago and somehow didn't see Guerber under Greece. But there it is! And I had not searched my files. Not every one of the books fits on my ipad right now with all of our apps and music, so its not on there, but the epub is saved in my files. Thanks for correcting me!
Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| Since we will hit Ancient Greece in high school one more time I am wondering if I should save Mills for then, as Krista suggested. |
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You certainly could, but I'm typically choosing much meatier reading for high school, Ancient History: Plutarch's Lives, the Dryden translation, The Greek Way by Edith Hamilton, some Aristotle, Plato, Great Books authors, etc. Now, I'm not saying that you *couldn't* assign Mills in high school, and it would make a wonderful family read aloud at that time, but it isn't what I'd consider high school level reading. |
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Thanks, that gives me more to think about. I think if I did use Mills my son would gladly read Guerber and Famous Men on his own as non-assigned reading throughout the year out of interest. Then I could go deeper next time around. We can at least try and see if its in his range.
Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| I'm curious what grade you used Mills for this year, or was it read as a family? |
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8th grade. I think it fits well 5th - 8th grade. |
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Perfect! Thanks for answering my questions!
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JuliaT
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I have been searching for an ancient history spine for my soon-to-be 9th grader. I thought Mills was too easy for her but I couldn't find an alternative. An online friend wisely suggested that I stay with Mills. She said that if I was intending to read the Great Books (the Illiad, Sophocles, Herodotus,) which I am, then it might be better to have an easy spine so that her brain doesn't have to be on full for the whole study. The Mills' books will give her brain a break while wrestling with the Great Books. This made sense to me so this is the path that we will be taking.
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kristacecilia
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Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| Since we will hit Ancient Greece in high school one more time I am wondering if I should save Mills for then, as Krista suggested. |
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You certainly could, but I'm typically choosing much meatier reading for high school, Ancient History: Plutarch's Lives, the Dryden translation, The Greek Way by Edith Hamilton, some Aristotle, Plato, Great Books authors, etc. Now, I'm not saying that you *couldn't* assign Mills in high school, and it would make a wonderful family read aloud at that time, but it isn't what I'd consider high school level reading.
AmandaV wrote:
| I'm curious what grade you used Mills for this year, or was it read as a family? |
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8th grade. I think it fits well 5th - 8th grade. |
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My guys are only in 2nd and 4th this coming year, so I think the Mills book will be a great fit for when we re-visit this period in 4 or so years. We can definitely do it as a family read aloud then. This is very helpful info!
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Krista
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AmandaV
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kristacecilia wrote:
Mackfam wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| I'm curious what grade you used Mills for this year, or was it read as a family? |
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8th grade. I think it fits well 5th - 8th grade. |
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My guys are only in 2nd and 4th this coming year, so I think the Mills book will be a great fit for when we re-visit this period in 4 or so years. We can definitely do it as a family read aloud then. This is very helpful info! |
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My son is also going into 4th, Krista, and my daughter will be 2nd, but I keep them separate for history studies, so I'm thinking my 4th grader who reads at at least a 7th grade level will do fine with it. Actually, since I have Guerber in the ebook set, I'm going to try to find Mills for a reasonable price - first priority good hardback and if I can't find that I'll probably buy the Memoria press version. Then if its too much maybe we'll switch to Guerber with Famous Men as a free read.
(ETA - I guess I said as much up above. Sorry for repeating myself, everyone!)
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Amanda
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: Ancient History Spine
