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anitamarie
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 3:50pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn, I don't think you sound harsh at all. That's just reality. Homeschooling or not, couples have to be on the same page for discipline or it doesn't work.
 to you, it can be so hard. No words of wisdom, just .
Anita
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
if *WE* have agreed to home-school the children then *WE* have to do this together. If others are able to do be the principal, teacher, assistant AND disciplinarian, then WOW, they've got it together. For me, I absolutely, unequivocally cannot continue on this journey without assistance from DH in the discipline arena. It makes forming any sort of habit impossible and frankly, it's exhausting. Sorry if that sounds so harsh. |
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This doesn't sound harsh, it sounds like your answer.
It's one thing to agree to homeschool and it's a whole other thing to actually do it. I call it "informed consent". It truly isn't informed consent until you've gotten in deep and know what it's all about. And a couple knows how they function together in real time.
Our family figured this out the hard way some years ago after a mighty struggle, so I hope this helps. We only commit to homeschooling 1 year at a time. At the end of each year we reevaluate in the light of what actually happened. We tend to lower our expectations. We love each other through our failures and admit defeat in some areas while gladly claiming success in others. At first, this type of discussion was very emotional. Not now. We're all very detached and just looking for the truth. We have 2 rules (that we apply elsewhere in life as well):
No blame.
A *little* frustration allowed. (Not too much because it does absolutely, positively no good.)
And to further date myself  I actually remember reading that same article years ago! I'm a big Chris Flicka fan because he came to help out homeschoolers in PA and did a magnificent job before the legislature. I remember at the time feeling a little sad because, well to be blunt, my husband ain't no Chris Flicka! My husband is David J McIntyre, the love of my life, the man who God chose for me, and the guy who couldn't give a rip about being involved in homeschooling .
No, he doesn't mind me sharing this! While he and I agreed to homeschool way back when and he is supportive, homeschooling didn't turn out to be his avenue for having amazing relationships with our children. You would think that a guy who has a degree in Biology would LOVE to teach it to his kids. NOPE! You would think a guy with a doctorate in Psychology would LOVE to teach that to his teens? NOPE! You would think that a guy who is pretty good with math would LOVE to tutor Algebra. NOPE! NOPE! NOPE!
What my husband LOVES to do with our children is to be their father: to be the guy who works outside of the home 80+ hours a week to provide for them and me, then spends the rest of his hours rooting for them at their baseball games, taking them to water parks and movies, and lugging them to and from their friends' homes. He's the guy who rotates taking them on business trips, foregoing opportunities to mix and mingle with big wigs as much. He calls his teens in the morning to make sure they wake up on time (there is NO way I’m doing that) and he gives them presents (even when I’m panicking about our budget.)
So, my questions to you are questions I’ve asked myself:
If homeschooling is important to me and to the kids, am I willing to do it without my husband’s direct support?
Am I willing to be grateful for the indirect support my husband offers? Including, but not exclusive to, chocolate, flowers, and dinners out :) ?
Am I willing to unlock and detach from my high standards to see that there are many wonderful ways to home educate?
Am I willing to accept that my children each have their own path that they are responsible for?
Am I willing to take responsibility for my own happiness?
So on a practical note, it sounds as if you need to consider how much time you want to personally put toward academics, mothering, and discipline (might as well throw in homemaking & management too). Personally, I rank those three in this order: mothering, discipline, then academics. While it’s not ideal, sometimes our academics slide. If you rank academics higher, consider delegating academics to others (school, tutors, etc.) and focus on mothering and discipline.
On an emotional point, I do know your pain (rare is the homeschooling mom who hasn’t felt it) and I highly encourage you to avoid making homeschooling a litmus test. There are many ways and supports out there to find joy in marriage, mothering, and academics. It's all about softening the heart in order to love, be creative, and see options. It's about taking full responsibility for oneself and and picking battles (not homeschooling is not a sin) carefully.
I'm sure I haven't said anything of substance that you haven't heard before. But sometimes hearing that others struggle with the same thing and come out on the other side happy, is a consolation and gives HOPE!
I’m praying that your family finds it’s perfect fit.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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guitarnan
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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We've struggled, too. My husband wanted our children to learn Latin, but I never learned it (French sounded prettier to my 14-year-old ears). He tried to teach our son, but he really couldn't. Even when he wasn't working crazy Navy battle watch shifts and/or going out to sea, he just, well, couldn't. His work exhausts him physically and emotionally, and teaching was just too much.
I felt disappointed - I was letting everyone down with my lack of knowledge - but finally DH and I sat down and agreed that Latin could wait. (And it's still waiting, 11 years later, I might add. )
Translation: It's okay not to do everything, and it's okay for your husband not to do everything, too, just as long as you have regular, kid-free conversations about how your children are progressing.
We came late to homeschooling (my older child was in 5th grade), so we'd already thrashed out the discipline issues, including backing each other up, not allowing children to play both parents against the middle and using positive discipline, offering choices where possible ("Blue shirt or red today?"), to cope with my son's spirited temperament. Homeschooling issues were easy to separate from straight-up parenting issues because of this.
I tend to be the "my way or the highway" type, and I have had to learn over and over again that there are lots of highways, many of which get travelers to the same destination. I've learned to only schedule what I can handle (the Navy can, and has, and will continue to order my husband to travel around the globe, change jobs, work double shifts, etc., and I just try to honor - out loud, in front of our children - the work he does to support our family) and to handle that without complaining too much. I have a friend I can call when I feel stressed out, but even with her I don't complain about my husband much at all...I feel uncomfortable doing that, and, after almost 28 years, I know I can talk with my husband and work out ways around my stress/burnout when those times occur. (Tip: I have to start the conversation when we actually have time to discuss the issue at hand. And, I have to be willing to accept the help my husband can give, which is sometimes not the exact help I want. It works out...I still get the breathing space I need, just in a different way.)
I read back through this entire thread and I see you really wanting to work with your husband to educate and raise your children.
I like the idea of lightening up on your son's schedule (we have done this, too, even on a temporary basis...if I feel overwhelmed, the first thing I do is start canceling things).
I hope you'll consider the thought that discipline and homeschooling (although they happen together, from your perspective) are two issues, not one. They might be easier to tackle separately.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 7:24pm | IP Logged
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Nancy and Angie...both your replies are so full of wisdom. Thank you! I will re-read more in depth and ponder more. On the one hand I hate to complain with *only* 4 kids but again, everyone has different emotional thresholds and I suppose mine is at the peak right now. We really don't have a lot of family support or babysitters to depend on so we can get time alone to really discuss things without it being in the heat of the moment. So, I bite my tongue since we're usu. around the kids and then it just festers.
He does offer support in many ways and I don't want to make it seem that he doesn't, this is that time of pushing our limits (in a good way I hope) to make things better. But anytime we push our limits, physically or emotionally, change is hard.
And I say all this with him out of the town for the 2nd time this month and he hardly ever travels.  But, he'll be home tomorrow early and taking the rest of the day off. I'm hoping a trip to the museum with the kids (while I stay home  ) will be something he'd like to do.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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guitarnan
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| Posted: May 21 2013 at 8:52pm | IP Logged
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Oh, Kathryn, I know how you feel living far from family/friends who can help (and I have only two children!). I'm on my own wherever we live...the Navy's idea of "west" is WV and my family is way, way farther west than that! (My DH travels a lot right now, too, so feel free to PM me if you need to cry on an understanding shoulder...it's hard, isn't it?)
You're so right when you say change is hard. I think it's wonderful that you know where you are, emotionally, and still look at change in a positive way.
The travel thing gets easier (although I hope you won't have to deal with it too often). Some things I do include cooking "Dad's away" meals (he can't eat beef, so I make beef with broccoli), informing the children of the Plan of the Day (this is stolen from the Navy!) so they know what to expect re: schedule, talking with my husband while he's away so we can plan a fun family afternoon when he returns (we use email for this, as it's less expensive) and, if the trip is long, counting down the days via a calendar, paper chain, etc. (We do this less often now, but it really really really helps with young children.)
I mean it about the PMs. I know I'm not the only mom here who lives far from family and has a traveling husband, but I'm happy to listen if you need someone. (I'm a writer, so I get the I.Have.To.Write.It.Down.Or.I.Will.Explode thing, too.)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 22 2013 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
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Thanks again, Nancy! Unfortunately it's not that we're far from family, let's just say they're "unavailable and/or uninterested".  Well, if there were a DIRE emergency they might would help out but otherwise, my in-laws hardly ever see the kids and DH's siblings all have their own families and even grandkids now.
My mom is local and comes on Fri morning to help but she'll be 75 this year and about 2-3 hours a week is her max. If I am absolutely desperate I will ask her to watch the kids but rarely will I ever ask her to watch all 4 alone. It's really just too much for her. And for what babysitter's charge...YIKES! Anyway, we do have help in those absolute need help times but I see so many people getting couples time or alone time or kids going to grandparents or cousins house and that's what we don't have. Now DS is going to Boy Scout camp end of June and my mom has said that **MAYBE** the 3 girls could come over for an overngiht. Since DS would be gone that would minimize a lot of friction. And with DD 14 there to help w/ 2 yr old it'll just be the spirited 5 yr old that'll keep things lively. Sooo...pray, pray this happens. This would be the first time in over 14 years (since DD was born) that DH and I would have the house to ourself!!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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guitarnan
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| Posted: May 22 2013 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
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Praying for this all to work out, Kathryn. I'm glad your son has the chance to go to Scout camp. He'll have fun! And shower at least once during the week! 
May this be another step on the Path to Eagle!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 22 2013 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
May this be another step on the Path to Eagle!
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Yep...he just made 1st class and earned his first Eagle Merit Badge!  So proud of him!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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guitarnan
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Congratulations to your son!
(Tip: You can count A LOT of Merit Badge work as homeschooling work. If it doesn't count for this year, just document it and add it in during the appropriate year.)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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SallyT
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| Posted: May 23 2013 at 7:54am | IP Logged
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Oh, I totally agree about Boy Scout work! I think of Scouts as its own curriculum, and that path to Eagle is so rewarding (speaking as the very proud mother of a boy who made Eagle two weeks ago . . . :) ). I have certainly counted things he and my other son have done through Scouting as part of our homeschooling.
No real wisdom to add to the general discussion. We've certainly been around and around at times ourselves over all these issues, though overall I'm happy with our M.O. My husband does support both our homeschooling and my discipline (especially when I clue him in via email during the day that such-and-such has happened, and I have responded with such-and-such a consequence), and I'm grateful for that. It's not perfect, but at this stage I think we do work pretty well together, each of us taking into account the other's inevitable shortcomings.
Also, I don't think there's any such things as "only" whatever number of children (I also have four, incidentally, though one is now out of the house, mostly). Life with children just is tiring sometimes, and overwhelming, and everything else, even if the number of children you have is one, when the number of other adults at home with you all day is zero. I know I lean on online groups like this a lot because I just *need* some adult conversation! I love the kid conversations, but all day every day gets kind of wearing without some kind of outlet.
My husband and I don't go out by ourselves very much, but we do typically send the kids to do their own things in the house after dinner so that we can talk for a little bit before the bedtime machinery grinds into motion. They all know "grownup time," the rule for which is that they can stay with us if they want to have grownup conversation, which they usually don't for more than about fifteen seconds. Teenagers are the exception, but after we've had some grownup talk with them, we usually say, "OK, Mom/Dad and I want to talk now. Why don't you go do something else?"
Also, the bedtime thing has gotten better as it's become clear to everyone involved that we can have more grownup time for longer if the kids go to bed at a certain time. When the younger kids were really young, we would even sometimes pay our oldest daughter a little, in either cash or some kind of privilege, to keep the younger kids occupied and/or get them ready for bed so that we could talk in peace -- I guess that was real desperation! By this time, they're all used to the idea that Mom and Dad want to spend time with *each other* daily, and this is a real saving grace in our household. It does give us a little space to nurture our own relationship and to hash things out. Sometimes we have some really cathartic conversations.
Our life and homeschooling sure aren't perfect. I could spend all day telling you the ways that we fall short and aren't the people we ought to be (and thank God for the sacrament of Confession . . . ). And I'm in no position to say that something works, or that you should do X, Y, or Z, so none of this is advice. Just . . . sharing. And offering a prayer for you, as I have been as I've revisited and thought about this thread.
Sally
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 23 2013 at 11:46am | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
| if there were a DIRE emergency they might would help out |
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That's a blessing!
We've been married 20 years and have lived out the exact same circumstances! Difficult? Yep! Instead of looking around at others that were in different seasons and allowing shadows of discontentment to brew, we chose to brainstorm in-house dates. These can be challenging, but a little creativity can go a long way! Our favorite in-house date? Wine on the deck after the kids go to bed!  It's a great time to share some of these concerns you're having in private between the two people that can truly affect change in your family - yourself and that awesome man you married! While we can pray for you, brainstorm with you, and share our experiences - sharing privately with your dh is what gets you down the road!
Kathryn wrote:
| My mom is local and comes on Fri morning to help but she'll be 75 this year and about 2-3 hours a week is her max. |
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This is AWESOME! Fantastic! I never had anyone come help me on a weekly basis, but if I did...I'd have my lists organized and prioritized and ready to go for when my mom got there!! I'm thrilled you have this help, Kathryn! What a blessing! This could be a great time to target one practical need/project...and you could start by locking yourself in your bedroom and enjoying 10-15 minutes of uninterrupted private prayer!
Kathryn wrote:
| I see so many people getting couples time or alone time or kids going to grandparents or cousins house and that's what we don't have. |
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What you're experiencing is a parenting season - nothing more! And what you're seeing when you look around at others going out for couple time are families that are in different seasons than your family. It's like comparing apples and oranges - they're totally different. Looking around at other families can be a real blessing - I find ideas and inspiration in seeing how other similar, like-minded families work! But no family is ever going to mirror my family exactly. There will always be unique circumstances, personalities, and our family suffering will always be unique, as will the grace that we are invited to cooperate with on a daily basis. That means looking around can only be a tool that goes so far. I can't compare our family to other families: how our family works, nor our ability to do things - because it strips my ability to be grateful, and ignores the fact that we are in a unique season with all the graces that season affords us. Work within your season, Kathryn!
Another blessing! You have a 14 yo and a 12 yo! Fantastic! You've got built in babysitters! Brainstorm this!!!!!
:: Set everyone up for success! Start your outings with a 30 minute trip out for coffee, or a surgical strike to the grocery store. Build on success!
:: Purchase special snacks to be saved and opened only when you're out. Or save a special movie.
:: Allow for workable tools - like a good DVD or tv program.
:: Give your kids words to work with in case one of the littlers melts down. You know your kids!!! Anticipate weak areas, or situations likely to result in melt down and give good words and redirection tools that your big kids can use. Practice with some role play if necessary! They'll feel empowered for those challenging times that can come up when you're out.
:: If you have a spirited child that just means extra brainstorming! I've got a few spirited kiddos here - they don't get a special pass because of their "spirit" when they're adults, so they don't get a special pass here either. Does it make life a little more challenging? Certainly! But I figure God knew what He was doing when He gave us these blessings, and I trust that He meets us in the ordinary parts of our days - so it's up to me to buckle up, brainstorm and deal!!  We give good tools (words to work with), do our best to set them all up for success when we're out, deal with mess-ups with love and reasonable consequences (often!!) and brainstorm our unique challenges!
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Hey! You've got a lot of great blessings going on from where I sit, Kathryn! I'm not trying to dismiss your challenges (Merciful heavens - we've all got em!!). Your dh and his input sounds a lot like my own husband! I'm grateful I learned to relax my expectations over the years (to something a mere mortal man could live up to! ), started focusing on my dh's strengths (which were NOT in participating in the day-to-day homeschool and discipline areas!) and tried to cut him some slack in areas he's weak! Goodness knows, I have enough inadequacies (!!!) and I sure appreciate it when he's gentle on me!!!!!
I'll trade prayers with you! Working with the challenges we face is not easy! GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!!!  Homeschooling is NOT easy!! This vocation is DEFINITELY NOT for the faint of heart!
I'll be straightforward here: You can choose joy and gratitude, or you can get stuck looking at everything. One moves you forward. The other nurtures discontent.
Go plan a wine night and resolve to laugh at SOMETHING from your day with your dh!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 23 2013 at 8:20pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
I never had anyone come help me on a weekly basis, but if I did...I'd have my lists organized and prioritized and ready to go for when my mom got there!! I'm thrilled you have this help, Kathryn! What a blessing! This could be a great time to target one practical need/project...and you could start by locking yourself in your bedroom and enjoying 10-15 minutes of uninterrupted private prayer! |
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Oh I def. have our day lined up. I usu. take the big kids the library and if grandma just sits the little ones in front of the tv then that's still a sanity saving moment for me and big kids to get to the library w/o the little ones. Trust me, we don't take advantage of grandma. She gets lots of special treats and for sure, a lunch out each week for her help.
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mackfam wrote:
Hey! You've got a lot of great blessings going on from where I sit, Kathryn! I'm not trying to dismiss your challenges (Merciful heavens - we've all got em!!). |
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Oh I know I have plenty of great blessings, no doubt. And maybe my problem is "comparing" b/c compared to so many others our life is truly magnificent and rewarding in so many ways. I know that when one domino falls though it tends to make that "stinkin' thinkin'" rear its ugly head and tends to magnify all the bad.
mackfam wrote:
Your dh and his input sounds a lot like my own husband! I'm grateful I learned to relax my expectations over the years (to something a mere mortal man could live up to! ), started focusing on my dh's strengths (which were NOT in participating in the day-to-day homeschool and discipline areas!) and tried to cut him some slack in areas he's weak! Goodness knows, I have enough inadequacies (!!!) and I sure appreciate it when he's gentle on me!!!!! |
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Love the mere mortal quote...good one. I should remember that. Guess I'm expecting Superman. And moi, have inadequacies? Well, there's a thought I should ponder more. I've got plenty and with his easy-going nature (which makes him an easy-going disciplinarian), he does let my faults go even quicker than I and doesn't expect me to be Superwoman!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: May 23 2013 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
| Love the mere mortal quote...good one. I should remember that. Guess I'm expecting Superman. And moi, have inadequacies? Well, there's a thought I should ponder more. I've got plenty and with his easy-going nature (which makes him an easy-going disciplinarian), he does let my faults go even quicker than I and doesn't expect me to be Superwoman! |
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Kathryn, my husband has that same easy-going nature, which I am grateful for since he too overlooks my faults and balances my much stronger personality! I want to recommend a book that maybe you could borrow at the library when you go with your older two: One Thousand Gifts, by Ann Voskamp. It was recommended to me by a friend and, while it doesn't contain anything earth-shattering, it did remind me to actively *look* for the blessings in my day. She gives examples and shares frustrations from her life -- with kids, homeschooling, money problems. It is not a Catholic book, but she speaks of "Eucharist" being thanksgiving -- and we have the Real Presence. There are other parts too that are not the fullness of Truth that we have coming from a Catholic perspective, but for me it was a worthwhile read and has given me something to ponder in my moments of quiet and remember in my (many) moments of frustration!
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Kathryn
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| Posted: May 23 2013 at 11:09pm | IP Logged
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Janette...I'm too used to Facebook and wish I could click "like" so you know I read your post. I will check out the book. Thanks.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: When DH seems out of sync
