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Tami
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I'm trying to knit this as my first sweater project. She says it is ideal as a first sweater project.
Actually, I was going to do the men's sweater for dh, but realized that the techniques were better explained in the women's version, so thought I would start there. I may knit them side-by-side.
But… I'm having trouble getting the gauge right on the women's sweater. It is supposed to be 18 stitches over 4 inches, she suggests #7 needle. I'm using the yarn she specifies.
Swatch #1: #7 needle, 18.5 -19.25 stitches over 4 inches
Swatch #2: #8 needle, 18.2 (?) -18.25 stitches
Swatch #3: #9 needle, 17 to 17.5
I measured in various places on each one, hence the range. 
I washed each swatch the way the sweater will be washed, but just laid it flat to dry (that's how I'm likely to care for the sweater once, um, IF, I get it made). I did not block it, per se, so I stayed away from the where the selvidges curled at top and bottom for my measuring.
I can also see some inconsistencies in my stitches. Ugh. Can anyone help?
Oddly enough, I also swatched dh's sweater (using the listed yarns). It came our right on the money. Go figure! Maybe it a wool v. cotton thing?? 
I'm also thinking that perhaps I could follow her women's instructions for technique in a general way while following the men's pattern, then perhaps the cotton will be easier to handle?
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Betsy
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I have a few comment/suggestions...
:: When you knit your swatch put a garter stitch boarder around it so that they ends don't role. To get a true reflection of gauge you need to do at least a 4 x 4 inch swatch, the bigger the better.
::Did you use the recommend yarn for the women's sweater to try to get gauge? Obviously you didn't get an exact match for gauge. There are a few things to try: Knit with the 8's a little tighter and see if you get gauge. I would DEFINITELY work on trying to get a more consistent tension. That inconsistency can really throw off your gauge off....believe me, I have worked with my kids erratic gauge and I nearly pull my hair out when we are working on a fitted project.
::The BEST way to catapult your skills to a new level is to get out of your comfort zone and try new, challenging projects. Especially, when you desire the FO greatly. However, a sweater is a BIG project. To get a FO that you really LOVE you need to spend a lot of time doing the un-fun things of knitting....like having great gauge, etc. Might I recommend that you start with a child's sweater or a shawl first? I did both of these before my first sweater and I still struggled with my first sweater. 
Truly I am the pot calling the kettle black on this issue. I often bite off more than I can chew. It DOES help me learn, but I am not a fun person to be around as I am working through the issues. I am in the middle of a project right now like that. And to make matters worse they are commissed pieces that are past due to customers   .
However, if you decide to do this project know that I will be with you cheering you on!!!!
::It looks like you did this,  , but always make sure to wash and dry the swatch in the way that you plan on using it.
::Blocking for sweaters is a tricky questions. If you are doing a sweater with a lace you will need to block some for the pattern to come alive. But, like you, I wouldn't block a sweater that was mostly stockinet stitch.
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JennGM
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Pretty sweater! I love it!
How big is your swatch? Are you making it a few inches taller and wider than the 4 inches suggested? That helps.
Make sure you are swatching in stockinette stitch.
Elizabeth Zimmerman suggests using Roller Picks to mark the beginning of the 4 inches, then another at the end of the 4 inches. Make sure it's in between the selvages and lying flat, and then count the stitches. (ETA: You don't need the roller picks, but something similar to lay down the lines. Toothpicks even could work!)
So the number you are giving is the width number, not the height?
And yes, different yarns give different output, so you would possibly have different gauges for each type of yarn. Gauge is never the same, even on the same knitter, same pattern, same wool, same day. You change all the time, but usually it's within a small amount.
Just by the numbers you give, I'd go with the size 8, since that it closest to the 18 stitches. I'd swatch a gauge one more time.
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Tami
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Betsy wrote:
I have a few comment/suggestions...
:: When you knit your swatch put a garter stitch boarder around it so that they ends don't role. To get a true reflection of gauge you need to do at least a 4 x 4 inch swatch, the bigger the better. |
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Ok, I'll do that. Can I re-use the yarn from the 3 swatches I've already made? If yes, do I have to wash it after I rip it out and before beginning the new swatch? Two of my swatches were larger than 4 x 4, one just slightly shorter in height.
Betsy wrote:
| ::Did you use the recommend yarn for the women's sweater to try to get gauge? Obviously you didn't get an exact match for gauge. There are a few things to try: Knit with the 8's a little tighter and see if you get gauge. I would DEFINITELY work on trying to get a more consistent tension. That inconsistency can really throw off your gauge off....believe me, I have worked with my kids erratic gauge and I nearly pull my hair out when we are working on a fitted project. |
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Yes, I did. Not ready to substitute yarns. Ok, I'll try to knit more tightly with the 8's in the new swatch.
Betsy wrote:
| ::The BEST way to catapult your skills to a new level is to get out of your comfort zone and try new, challenging projects. Especially, when you desire the FO greatly. However, a sweater is a BIG project. To get a FO that you really LOVE you need to spend a lot of time doing the un-fun things of knitting....like having great gauge, etc. Might I recommend that you start with a child's sweater or a shawl first? I did both of these before my first sweater and I still struggled with my first sweater. |
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This is kind of how I feel too. I knit a dozen dishcloths, learning to read a pattern, do new stitches, count as I went along and catch mistakes so I could go back and correct them. I reverted to straight garter stitch cloths in between new patterns for a break - I definitely saw my stitches become more even there. Then I did a scarf, which a knitting friend looked at and said it looked even. I was trying for patterns that were useful ( I don't have a young child to knit for - my youngest is a teen). Perhaps a baby blanket for a pregnant parishioner, but I just.bought.all.this.yarn. for sweaters. Sigh. Would have to order more. That's not such a bad thing, if I can convince dh. 
Betsy wrote:
| Truly I am the pot calling the kettle black on this issue. I often bite off more than I can chew. It DOES help me learn, but I am not a fun person to be around as I am working through the issues. I am in the middle of a project right now like that. And to make matters worse they are commissed pieces that are past due to customers . |
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I understand. I was at first thinking I would never be ready for a sweater, but then thought if I don't take the plunge I might not get over my fear here. And while I hate ripping out, I love the process of knitting.
Ooooh, commissioned pieces? You'll get them done, Betsy! I'd love to see them.
Betsy wrote:
| However, if you decide to do this project know that I will be with you cheering you on!!!! |
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Thank you for the encouragement and support. If my new swatch works out I may just go ahead, in which case I will need all the support I can get! 
Betsy wrote:
| ::It looks like you did this, , but always make sure to wash and dry the swatch in the way that you plan on using it. |
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Yes, I just didn't pin it down to make it square.
Thank you so, so much, Betsy for your reply. I really appreciate it.
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Tami
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JennGM wrote:
Pretty sweater! I love it!
How big is your swatch? Are you making it a few inches taller and wider than the 4 inches suggested? That helps.
Make sure you are swatching in stockinette stitch. |
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Thanks, Jenn, I thought so too. I love her videos, she is a really good teacher.
Yes, my swatches were pretty much 4 x 4 or larger and in stockinette.
JennGM wrote:
So the number you are giving is the width number, not the height?
And yes, different yarns give different output, so you would possibly have different gauges for each type of yarn. Gauge is never the same, even on the same knitter, same pattern, same wool, same day. You change all the time, but usually it's within a small amount. |
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Yes, the width. I was just so surprised that the wool swatch worked up according to her specs. It must be the fiber difference. I must admit to preferring wool since I've done so many cotton dishcloths. It really is harder for me to work with.
JennGM wrote:
| Just by the numbers you give, I'd go with the size 8, since that it closest to the 18 stitches. I'd swatch a gauge one more time. |
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You and Betsy are saying the same thing. I honestly never thought to do it again with the same size, I just figured I would have to do something different. So much to learn and absorb….
Thanks, Jenn. I'll be back with an update. 
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Mimip
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Seems that you have gotten some great advice here but I just wanted to just state some of my experience with swatching and getting even stitches.
1. I knit much tighter than I purl. Soooo when I work in stockinette verses garter I get a VASTLY different gauge.
2. I usually knit all along the same swatch. Let me explain, I start with the needle that is recommended, knit the 4 X4 and then switch needles either up or down ON THE SAME SWATCH. This way it is all together. I usually swatch the needle it recommends and one size up and size down. This is just in order to be able to see it better when I am finished. Also when I rip out it is SOOOOO much easier and yep, do what Betsy says and garter the ends so it doesn't roll.
3. Just so you have another opinion, seems like the 8 is the right gauge.
I wanted to recommend a few first sweater projects btw. I don't know if this one is knit all together from top down and dividing for the sleeves but that is the style that I have found the easiest to start with. This way you don't have to measure and seam and the gauge is not as critically important as when you piece a sweater together.
So these are all on Ravelry and I hope you have an account:
Chloe- For little girls
Tea leaves- amazing sweater
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Mimi
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Tami
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| Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 9:56pm | IP Logged
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Mimi, thanks so much!
I steamed out the kinks in my swatch yarn and started over. Now I am totally frustrated! I'm just not sure that the cotton is holding up as well as when I made the swatch to begin with. I didn't have any problems when I made my swatches yesterday. Part of me wants to scream, the other part wants to cry.
I did the first few rows in garter as Betsy suggested and could tell that my purls are loose (checking against a sketch in Reader's Digest book of knitting).
So I think I do knit more tightly than I purl. When I knit, the loops are snug snug snug against the needle. When I turn to purl, they slide right along.
Good idea to do the swatching as one piece.
Perhaps I will just try and go with the size 8 and start the sweater. And yes, it is a top down dividing for sleeves like you said, all in stockinette (but knit in the round so it's all knit stitch).
Ugh. And big fat sigh.
Thanks for the patterns, I am on Ravelry and they are lovely.
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Tami
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Betsy
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Tami wrote:
Perhaps I will just try and go with the size 8 and start the sweater. And yes, it is a top down dividing for sleeves like you said, all in stockinette (but knit in the round so it's all knit stitch).
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Tami,
That sounds REALLY frustrating with the yarn. Mimp brings up a great point, most, many, maybe all, people knit and purl at different tensions! Because of this fact, if the FO is knit in the round on circular needles, you should do your swatch on circular needles in the round. When you knit in the round you produce stockinet stitch fabric without purling, so most people will have different gauge.
If you do just decided to start, make sure that you check your gauge when you have a 4-5 inches worked to make sure your gauge is okay.
Heres a  we have all been there with our projects!!!!!!!
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Mimip
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Betsy wrote:
Tami wrote:
Perhaps I will just try and go with the size 8 and start the sweater. And yes, it is a top down dividing for sleeves like you said, all in stockinette (but knit in the round so it's all knit stitch).
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Tami,
That sounds REALLY frustrating with the yarn. Mimp brings up a great point, most, many, maybe all, people knit and purl at different tensions! Because of this fact, if the FO is knit in the round on circular needles, you should do your swatch on circular needles in the round. When you knit in the round you produce stockinet stitch fabric without purling, so most people will have different gauge.
If you do just decided to start, make sure that you check your gauge when you have a 4-5 inches worked to make sure your gauge is okay.
Heres a we have all been there with our projects!!!!!!! |
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YES! THAT IS IT!!!!!! You need to swatch on circular needles IN THE ROUND.
Here is a great you tube video that I found on doing exactly that:
Gauge when knitting in the round
The gauge will me markedly different if you are laying it flat and knitting and purling back and forth!
Keep going girl, We are all cheering you on!!!
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Mimi
Wife of 16 years to Tom, Mom of DD'00, DD'02, '04(in heaven) DS'05, DS'08 and DS '12
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JennGM
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Tami, I work with cotton and other natural fibers all the time. Cotton doesn't have as much elasticity as wool, and I do find that if you have to rip often that the twist gets a little loose, and sometime the yarns can be more splitty than other fibers like wool. But even these issues won't ruin the finished look.
If you're worried too much about the yarn you used for the gauge, don't use it until last, especially if you bought extra yarn (which I always try to do, being a "belt and suspenders" type of gal).
I'm thinking back on all my knitting projects. While I've been knitting for over 20 years, I have only made one fitted garment. My first and only sweater was sleeveless. I made it too long, but I was too naive to figure out how to rip. Ripping scared me. I couldn't seem to get the row back correctly if I did rip.
Sadly, I gave the sweater away. I absolutely loved that yarn, and I probably should have ripped it and reused it, but I was too inexperienced.
I was looking at the blanket I knitted for my 5 year when I was expecting him. I spent so much time in the doctors' offices that this kept me busy. It was the simplest pattern, and yet I couldn't keep count of the rows, and too lazy to rip. I hate when my mistakes yell at me.
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Tami
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Thanks so much for your encouragement. I know I will get there, I know I will.
OK, I was so hoping to write "all is well with the world" this morning, but, um, not yet.
I did my flat swatch last night (was up to 12:30 making mistakes and ripping it out - didn't want to go to bed without finishing it) from the yarn I used earlier (steamed out the kinks, etc). Now my gauge with the #8 needle is 19 stitches over 4 inches!  More than yesterday!
Sheesh. I do wonder if it's because I'm using 'used' yarn now… or because it's Lent. 
I may go ahead and try swatching in the round. The odd thing is that the tutorial video (in the link I shared yesterday) calls for a flat swatch. This is supposed to be a beginner's sweater. 
I may do another flat swatch.
I may just jump right in with a #8, but now I'm a bit gun shy.
One thing I will not do is lose my mind over this.  I've already lost my peace, but will will work hard to get that back!
Upside: I'm getting lots of laundry done, as I look for items to wash with the swatches. Have done one load twice now. Good grief!
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JennGM
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Tami,
It IS Lent. I find I'm pulling out more than I'm knitting...a source of grace, I guess.
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JennGM
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I'm a bit confused on the washing of the swatches. For all my cotton sweaters (any sweater) I only do handwash or very gentle on the washer and then lay flat to dry. Is this what you are doing?
Maybe I'm showing my laziness and inexpertise, but I would only be swishing the swatch, getting it wet, squeezing out the liquid and laying flat to dry.
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Tami
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Jenn, in the video she recommends following the washing instructions for the yarn. It is machine wash/dry.
I'm not machine drying it (she didn't either) but am washing it on gentle and drying flat as that is how I would wash something like this anyway.
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Tami
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New swatch today (cue the music: On today's episode of "Knitting With Tami...")
I could not seem to get the hang of the circular swatch, so I did this flat.
I watched this video and realized I might have been tugging on the yarn when I knit, hence my tight-tight-tight knit stitches. And I watched as I purled and saw how far down the needle my piece was as I was wrapping the yarn.
So, I loosened up on my knits and tightened up on my purls. The new swatch measures either 17 or 18 stitches in 4 inches (on #8 needle).
I think I am half-way through my first skein of yarn.
Cue the music: Will Tami try again with #7's or #9's, OR will she take the plunge into her yarn bag and begin {dun dun dun} the sweater?
Honestly, I wish I had more confidence in these types of things. I tend to be a 'make sure it will go well' type of person before starting something big. And a sweater is big, right?
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Tami
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Betsy
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Tami,
Honestly, sweater aren't that hard to knit.......it's the swatching and picking the right size that will drive you batty!
I have knit a number of sweater and for myself I determined that my family needs me to knit shawls (where the fit isn't important)!
What you are doing right now if a great exercise in knitting. It is important to understand how you knit, what type of fabric it produces and how that relates to your FO.
Keep with it. I think that your pattern will be somewhat forgiving as it's not and overly fitted sweater.
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JennGM
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Tami, It's the prep work that will kill you, but you will be SO GLAD you took the time. "Measure twice, cut once" applies to knitting!
It's more fun to get to the heart of the project, but the preparation and gauging is a practice in patience and prudence (which I am lacking seriously).
I need my cheerleader icon!
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Saw this post on 6 tips for knitting beginners. Thought I would share because of the emphasis on the knitting swatches for the gauge!
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Tami
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Thank you Betsy, Jenn and Mimi for all of your advice. I was so helpful to 'talk this out' as I was going along.
I did do one more swatch with the #7 needle, and not much changed. So, I started the sweater anyway, using the #8 needle - you all were right about that early on.
I am glad for the experience because it did give me a chance to look at my technique - just loosening up the knit stitches was worth it! I used nearly an entire skein (skank?! ) doing the swatches. It was 50 grams.
Dh and I are going shopping tomorrow, so I will have lots of time to knit (2 hours each way). I'll get to the point of trying it on fairly soon but will have to wait until I get back home. I may even start his sweater while we're out.
Jenn, those tips were really helpful.
I'm wondering if there's a patron saint of handwork? I keep thinking of the paintings of the Blessed Mother doing stitching, and I'm wondering if there is someone else? It would be nice to have someone to call on for intercession. 
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When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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Awesome! Nothing is better than a car trip that you can knit! I just had one last weekend, but finished my project and didn't have anything ready for the next project -- it about killed me!!!
I was just reading about "lifelines" in knitting -- it's a concept I had not heard about before, but I can say I could have used it many times especially when I was very new and loathe to rip.
Correcting Mistakes in Knitting
Lifeline in Knitting
Not applicable to your sweater, but for me
Sandi's Lace Lifeline Tips
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4Real Forums : Our Lady's Loom, Larder, and Laundry
Topic: Help with knitting gauge
