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KackyK
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This is very timely!
We had a little food meeting with our hs group...I was the sponsor I guess you could say. It was very fun. The point was to chat about struggles in trying to eat real food and stay on budget, and how to get a picky eater to eat good food and so forth. There were GAPS diets there, Paleo, allergies, etc. People came who just wanted to chat about organic vs not, real vs other...etc.
I have to say, I prefaced the whole thing with this comment...do not compare yourself to everyone else, do not let yourself feel like one way is better than your way, do NOT go away thinking you are doing something wrong! Everyone struggles in different ways to feed their families how they want to feed them. We are NOT to judge HOW people feed their families, we are there just to support each other.
So the meeting was good! Then we started a yahoo group for us. So far I think okay. The bad thing about e messaging is stuff gets lost, so sometimes when you are trying to explain how and why your family eats xyz, it can come off as superior sounding, so I'm trying to interject every now and then.
We are going to meet every month with a topic each month...this month we will be talking about breakfasts. I think those meetings will keep ladies in check and keep things light and not so ....my way is betterish...and if not they'll still have me to talk about dessert!!!!!
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JennGM
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Betsy wrote:
SallyT wrote:
there aren't any snacks other than ice.
Sally |
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You know that kids can choke on ice? I would NEVER give my kids ice after I saw that Oprah episode!
 Just Kidding, I couldn't resist!  |
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What kind of water was used to make the ice? Filtered tap? Was it spring? Is it mineral?
And did you buy the ice? From a box store? where was this ice manufactured? Locally or did it leave a huge carbon footprint?
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JennGM
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Sorry, hit enter too soon. Just teasing...nothing is safe!!!! 
I don't agree with Rod Dreher on most things, but I did enjoy his book Crunchy Cons clarifying that personal choices made don't have to define one as Democrat or Republican or liberal or conservative. That was helpful to me.
I'll have to read through that article, Lindsay.
It is a difficult time to live through, because we have as a culture lost our connection with the seasons and the land. Few farmers even have that rhythm. There have been generations lost where everything has been packaged or trucked to our stores. There hasn't been involvement in what goes into the packages or how the food is grown. We also struggle with fulfilling all our needs, fast or NOW and cheaply, so companies have catered to that, but the line has crossed that we are realizing the convenience and low budget doesn't always mean better for you, and some ingredients definitely not good for human consumption.
But the shortcuts made by industries have pushed aside the human factor. The human being as a person has been forgotten.
As parents, we look like control freaks trying to help our children. Industrial food looks like the enemy.
Sally, so well put, as usual. Thank you for voicing all that.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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CrunchyMom wrote:
[QUOTE=kristinannie] I think, in general (myself included  ), Americans have a disordered sense of eating and food. People tend to either go really far one way or the other. |
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There have been a few recent books that discuss JUST that. I can't remember one of the titles (I'll have to look it up), but the ones like "French Women Don't Get Fat" and a lot of the other ones looking at French culture with food have been very enjoyable.
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SallyT
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Ha, yes, ice. In a frozen plastic bottle leaching poison into the water? From the ice maker, loaded with bacteria? Off the floor, where people drop it out of the freezer and it gets licked by the dog, who has to be reminded in a sensory way over and over that Ice Is Not A Dog Treat?
It is a dilemma, truly.
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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JennGM wrote:
| It is a difficult time to live through, because we have as a culture lost our connection with the seasons and the land. Few farmers even have that rhythm. There have been generations lost where everything has been packaged or trucked to our stores. There hasn't been involvement in what goes into the packages or how the food is grown. |
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I think this speaks, in part, to why food so easily becomes the replacement for religion and moral absolutes. These ideals ARE good, so good in fact, the Church adopted many of them in creating the liturgy. A disordered appetite doesn't come from wanting BAD things, it is by wanting too much of a GOOD thing.
Food is and should be emotional. It is such an intensely personal thing that God BECOMES food for us!
And really, doesn't it make sense that a culture that has so decidedly rejected the Eucharist should become obsessed with food and that the obsession would take any number of forms?
And, I wonder if the allurement with factory produced foods and instant gratification can't in some way be compared to Christ's temptation in the desert where Satan asks him to turn stones into bread?
Of course, one could take that analogy and run with it, refusing to touch factory food because it is "of the devil"
Also, I wonder if all the heated debates over food aren't in part due to spiritual warfare? I recall Scott Hahn writing of how the sacrifices of the Old Testament were related to meals (for instance, in Egypt, it wasn't enough to sacrifice the lamb, they had to eat it, too), how eating a meal with someone was a BIG deal, and sharing a meal with your enemy would have been a sign of peace and was used to end wars and such. Anyway, if Satan can create strong barriers to keep us from sitting down to eat and fellowship with each other over meals, he has a mighty foot hold in breaking down solidarity and community, creating an isolationism that is an enemy of peace.
Just thinking out loud.
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SallyT
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This is a thoroughly fascinating and, I think, helpful conversation. For the most part, I have the same day-to-day experience as Kristin: we live in a poor-ish rural county in NC, and people all around us weigh 400+ pounds. We know a good number of obese children. And I see what people in front of me in the checkout line are buying, and most of it isn't what I would buy at all, or even think of as food. So most of the time, in real life, I am in the position of educating my kids about things like label-reading, cooking, shopping at the farmers' market, and all that. And all my kids' friends think we are weird on wheels -- no tv, eat strange homemade stuff for dinner . . . man, let's go play at somebody else's house, and eat some Doritos!
So it's not that I don't think there's a problem with food in America on that level, because manifestly there is. I was talking to my dental hygienist about this -- she was describing all the kids whose teeth she cleans and how poor their dental health is, largely because, as she said, they don't even know what a home-cooked meal is.
Of course, there's a whole nexus of things which contribute to this reality -- the corporations didn't just rise up overnight and decide to get rich by feeding people non-food. My mother, who invested energy in raising me to be a lot of things I didn't turn out to be, was talking the other night about all the fast-food waste that gets swept into the Mississippi River, ultimately, and bemoaning the fact that we are such a fast-food society. My husband, who likes to be a little provocative, said, "Well, not eating fast food kind of depends on having somebody at home to cook an actual dinner, no?" This was like a tiny little aha moment: who knew that being a boring old stay-at-home mother could actually be a strike against Macdonald's (especially since she presumes that conservatives, of the sort she supposes us to be, are all about Wal-Mart and every other big business and probably dream of bulldozing farmers' markets to make way for air-pollution factories. This vision makes me out, at any rate, to be far more political than I am, but it's kind of the way my side of the family thinks). Anyway, it was the most productive and least hostile quasi-political conversation we've had in about five years. Food may be loaded as a topic of conversation, but it's still less loaded than other things!
So it's not like I'd ever argue for a corn dog in every pot, or anything like that. I just find the notion of shaming someone -- especially a relative stranger -- over food choices really bizarre and like something somebody would make up, except that I know it's real. And, as we all have observed, a symptom that big things are seriously out of whack.
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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Love your husband's comment! So true!
Yes, it is so bizarre that people should be mocked for the food they eat, though I suppose that is nothing new. Apparently it became enough of an issue between members of the early church that St. Paul had to intervene and teach them how to be gentle and tolerant with each other. It also meant sacrificing one's own preferences for their brethren. Not sure exactly how that would play out in this scenario, but surely it is relevant.
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It's not just someone being at home to cook.. but because we lost that, we have huge numbers of people who have lost the skills to cook. A friend has worked with inner city kids that have no clue what to do with fresh veggies for instance. No knowledge of how to get from a raw potato to mashed potatoes.
And even among people that it's not bizarre to cook meals at home many are amazed at my older children being able to cook.
Not only is no one home to cook, no one is teaching the next generation how to cook. Even when you make the time to make the meal there's no time to have the kids "getting in the way".
And as far as food instead of religion.. it is much easier to control the food than God.
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JennGM
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It is a bigger picture and much more involvement than industrial food, although I do blame the decline ON the Industrial Revolution. It took a while, but really, it has developed into both parents working, no one home because we're too busy, and a loss of skills of HOW to cook, just like Jodie mentioned.
So much is about control, isn't it? If we eat so healthy we won't die...Oh, yes, we will, but we don't want to think about that.
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guitarnan
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When I lived in Italy, I was struck by two things. First, Italians don't believe in eating/drinking super-hot or super-cold things (my neighbors told me that eating ice can shock your system and kill you). In Rome the only place I've ever been able to get ice in a drink is at McDonald's.
Second, my neighbors were convinced that all Americans ate only frozen food. Even tomatoes. Even in Italy.
This was 1986. Imagine what they think now!
Side note: The Slow Food movement began in Italy and is now a worldwide effort to convince people to, well, slow down, appreciate good food prepared well by local people from local ingredients (at home or in restaurants) and enjoy food with family and friends.
I find it weird (although good) that we have to have a worldwide movement to promote what I consider to be a typical evening meal.
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guitarnan wrote:
When I lived in Italy, I was struck by two things. First, Italians don't believe in eating/drinking super-hot or super-cold things (my neighbors told me that eating ice can shock your system and kill you). In Rome the only place I've ever been able to get ice in a drink is at McDonald's.
Second, my neighbors were convinced that all Americans ate only frozen food. Even tomatoes. Even in Italy.
This was 1986. Imagine what they think now! |
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That's too funny! We rarely eat frozen prepared foods, with the exception of frozen veggies.
We never ate frozen prepared meals growing up, nor did my husband. I remember being puzzled when a single friend of mine told me she ate whatever was in an orange box. She had to explain she meant "Stouffers". Duh!
guitarnan wrote:
Side note: The Slow Food movement began in Italy and is now a worldwide effort to convince people to, well, slow down, appreciate good food prepared well by local people from local ingredients (at home or in restaurants) and enjoy food with family and friends.
I find it weird (although good) that we have to have a worldwide movement to promote what I consider to be a typical evening meal. |
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Yes, isn't it strange? Dh and I have talked about what are our common traits that helped us in our marriage (or attracted us to each other). We didn't think about it until later, but eating dinner as a family EVERY NIGHT was something both of our families did. Even during sports seasons there was some adjustment to make it work. Dh and I didn't even discuss it -- it was a given that we were doing this for our family.
Looking back we realize how this needs to be something that is discussed pre-marriage for other couples who might not have the family tradition. My one brother has struggled because his wife's family's idea of eating together was trays in front of the TV.
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stacykay
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guitarnan wrote:
When I lived in Italy, I was struck by two things. First, Italians don't believe in eating/drinking super-hot or super-cold things (my neighbors told me that eating ice can shock your system and kill you). In Rome the only place I've ever been able to get ice in a drink is at McDonald's.
Second, my neighbors were convinced that all Americans ate only frozen food. Even tomatoes. Even in Italy.
This was 1986. Imagine what they think now!
Side note: The Slow Food movement began in Italy and is now a worldwide effort to convince people to, well, slow down, appreciate good food prepared well by local people from local ingredients (at home or in restaurants) and enjoy food with family and friends.
I find it weird (although good) that we have to have a worldwide movement to promote what I consider to be a typical evening meal. |
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Our favorite restaurant is an Italian one. The owners all grew up in Italy (different regions) and met here in the States. I think most of the waiters are also from Italy.
One of the biggest complaints they received when they first opened was that the service was so slow! Some people expected the food to come flying out of the kitchen at warp speed. They didn't get the idea of sitting and taking their time eating. When dh and I go there (and on occasion, special ones, the older dss,) we completely expect dinner to take 2-3 hours. It's relaxing, we have time to talk and laugh and there is no one rushing you out the door. The food is delicious, too! 
We love to linger at our dining table, long after dinner is over, yakking, but the sports(played by dss, not on tv) and other activities do interrupt some evenings.
Modern US society has so much to learn!
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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JennGM
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stacykay wrote:
guitarnan wrote:
When I lived in Italy, I was struck by two things. First, Italians don't believe in eating/drinking super-hot or super-cold things (my neighbors told me that eating ice can shock your system and kill you). In Rome the only place I've ever been able to get ice in a drink is at McDonald's.
Second, my neighbors were convinced that all Americans ate only frozen food. Even tomatoes. Even in Italy.
This was 1986. Imagine what they think now!
Side note: The Slow Food movement began in Italy and is now a worldwide effort to convince people to, well, slow down, appreciate good food prepared well by local people from local ingredients (at home or in restaurants) and enjoy food with family and friends.
I find it weird (although good) that we have to have a worldwide movement to promote what I consider to be a typical evening meal. |
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Our favorite restaurant is an Italian one. The owners all grew up in Italy (different regions) and met here in the States. I think most of the waiters are also from Italy.
One of the biggest complaints they received when they first opened was that the service was so slow! Some people expected the food to come flying out of the kitchen at warp speed. They didn't get the idea of sitting and taking their time eating. When dh and I go there (and on occasion, special ones, the older dss,) we completely expect dinner to take 2-3 hours. It's relaxing, we have time to talk and laugh and there is no one rushing you out the door. The food is delicious, too!
We love to linger at our dining table, long after dinner is over, yakking, but the sports(played by dss, not on tv) and other activities do interrupt some evenings.
Modern US society has so much to learn!
In Christ,
Stacy in MI |
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Embarrassing story. Dh and I went to Rome in 2002 for St. Josemaria's canonization.
One day was unscheduled and we toured around in Rome on foot. Near the Pantheon we stopped for lunch in a little restaurant. He started getting annoyed that it was taking so long, and even got up and complained.
He now realizes he completely got this wrong and now laughs at himself. We were getting the whole slow food Italian experience, to enjoy each other and the food. I tease him that he was being an annoying impatient American.
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This has been a great thread to ponder. Going back to the OP:
DianaC wrote:
| I just feel like one more fun, traditional aspect of gathering and socializing is becoming a source of division. |
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I've been thinking more about the social aspect of food. When my son was first diagnosed with food allergies, I was a bit resentful that all family and social gatherings centered around food. But that's natural and good. I really like the approach that you open the circle wider, to allow people with health restrictions to come join at the food table rather than restricting the choices.
At the Homeschool Conference in Denver I was super impressed at the buffet that was offered. Numerous choices, including sweet treats and such. But also some gluten free options. And in the morning, there were a few muffins with the ingredients posted.
It was inviting and opening to all, rather than restrictive.
I also am very grateful for the Ordinary Form of the Mass allowing reception of both Species for Communion, so my son can receive Communion. Again, expanding and opening, not being restrictive.
I also enjoy Doritos and Salt and Vinegar potato chips on occasion. What's going to happen if I indulge every once in a while? It's a treat. Don't sweat it!
I think often about how Church festivals were celebrated by the communities in different cultures. The one reoccurring fact to me is that they were outside the usual. It was a special day put aside, and the treats were special to that day. It wasn't an every day occurrence. And so those foods, maybe not healthy, were just occasional treats to mark those special days.
So, my rambling thoughts, disconnected....but my point is balance.
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JodieLyn
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I love this Jenn.. open the circle wider..
Open the Circle wider
All may come to the table
I could just go on and on repeating what you said in more ways. It's just so lovely and welcoming and in a true way, tolerant of differences and adaptable to those with difficulties.
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mamaslearning
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Loving this thread! I can identify with the pressure to eat "organic" or "raw" or "vegan" or "insert anything else". It came about from nursing my children and then enjoying wearing my children (slings and such) and from there it seemed that you were expected to embrace the organic/natural/homegrown food movement to remain a nursing/sling wearing mom. I have nothing against eating healthy and eating food that is not processed, but I do like my sour cream and onion potato chips as well. Moderation, to me, is the key no matter what you eat.
Another pet peeve is the undermining (or maybe exploitation) of shoppers looking to avoid GMOs, simple syrups, etc. All the "natural" labels out there are deceiving and now that GMO sugar beets are being approved most of the sugars used will be a GMO product. It's like trying to buy from companies that do not support PPhood or other such organizations. Some are readily identified, but others are hidden and we support them without knowing it. It is so frustrating when you think you are making good choices for your family and then be told it would've been better to buy the processed food you were trying to avoid. So irritating!
I wish I could buy my food without feeling guilty that I might be harming my children or without feeling like I need a PhD to wade through all the information and chose healthy foods. I mean, you can't even buy whole foods without finding out where it was grown, how was it handled, does this particular one have salmonella, is it organic, what pesticides were used, etc. So tiring! Then there is growing your own - great, but are the seeds heirlooms, are they GMO seeds, and on and on.
It's enough to make you crazy. I go through spurts where I am diligent and eat healthy and then I get tired of all the planning and go totally opposite and indulge in every canned and processed food that I want.
So where does the guilt come from? Too many commercials maybe?
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OMGoodness! Sally, I love the link you shared on your blog about eating! That is sooooo me right now!
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DianaC
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I had thought that this issue primarily involved younger families, but I've learned it is more prevalent.
I was talking with a dear friend who is now 90 years old. She is like a mother to me and always so delightful to talk to. She lives in a retirement apartment community. She was telling me that one of her neighbors is somewhat distressed over preparing for her son to visit for dinner. Apparently her son and daughter-in-law will only eat organic foods. This lady is 95 and says that she has always "eaten what she wants" and really can't understand her son's fussiness.
Hearing this perspective on the food issue has really made me pause and chuckle. 
I think we all need to step back and laugh at ourselves once in a while.
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JennGM
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DianaC wrote:
I had thought that this issue primarily involved younger families, but I've learned it is more prevalent.
I was talking with a dear friend who is now 90 years old. She is like a mother to me and always so delightful to talk to. She lives in a retirement apartment community. She was telling me that one of her neighbors is somewhat distressed over preparing for her son to visit for dinner. Apparently her son and daughter-in-law will only eat organic foods. This lady is 95 and says that she has always "eaten what she wants" and really can't understand her son's fussiness.
Hearing this perspective on the food issue has really made me pause and chuckle.
I think we all need to step back and laugh at ourselves once in a while. |
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Oh my! They are making their 90 year old mother make food of their choice? That is ridiculous!
I agree, we do have to laugh at ourselves.
I've often thought about a perspective if I were a religious in a convent, say, Mother Teresa's order, I wouldn't or couldn't be choosy. But they are sustained by holiness, I believe!
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4Real Forums : Our Lady's Loom, Larder, and Laundry
Topic: Gatherings with food
