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Karen E.
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| Posted: April 23 2006 at 11:50am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
If you love fish/seafood, is it a sacrifice?
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That's the thing with us -- we do love it, so we often do something other than fish for our meatless meals.
On the other hand, if I join the kids in their fishsticks ... now THAT'S penitential. 
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Karen E.
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ALmom
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| Posted: April 23 2006 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
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We consistently do meatless Fridays. For us, however, it is almost never fish (too expensive for us to feed our crew fish). We generally have meatless spaghetti (everyone misses the meatballs) or my homemade Mac and cheese. We do also try to refrain from sweets on Fridays (not really, really hard unless there is a recital with reception because we try to reserve sweets for really special times) but I am not as much a stickler on this. Occassionally, a dc will forget it is Friday and eat something with meat from the fridge - and then realize it later when I am preparing a meal and saying - no we cannot have xyz today, it's Friday. At that point we find an aternative idea for that child for that day (although our meals are still meatless).
I've often thought we should do beans and rice on Fridays - it is very inexpensive (and savings could be offered to those less fortunate)plus it is healthy and would require all of us to develop a taste for something we don't care for - a certain discipline of real self-denial. I've begun weaning us into this by having beans with Mac and cheese ( I don't want the 3yo and 6yo to starve because they won't eat more than the required sample - a tiny spoonful). It is also more of a discipline for me as I have found myself looking forward to Fridays because of the minimal cooking involved - and beans take a bit more planning.
Of course, this is all great ideas - don't know if the good ideas will actually get implemented due to my laziness.
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: April 24 2006 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
I have heard that a soup and bread dinner on Wednesdays is also a good sacrifice (don't recall where I hear that). Thoughts? |
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I read somewhere in an Orthodox book, I think (maybe Frederica?) that Wednesdays is/was traditionally a penitential day as it is the day we mark Judas' betrayal.
That said, we haven't been successful with meatless Fridays yet. Dh and I weren't raised this way and honestly, I keep forgetting about it! 
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 24 2006 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
MacBeth wrote:
I have heard that a soup and bread dinner on Wednesdays is also a good sacrifice (don't recall where I hear that). Thoughts? |
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I read somewhere in an Orthodox book, I think (maybe Frederica?) that Wednesdays is/was traditionally a penitential day as it is the day we mark Judas' betrayal. |
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I haven't heard that one. I know my mother as a secular
Franciscan marks Wednesdays with abstinence.
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 24 2006 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
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Jumping in here a little late. Just a few comments...too many to quote from, so bear with me.
We try to do abstinence on Fridays throughout the year. It's definitely penitential for me, as our choices are quite limited.
Below are the two USCCB statements on the Fridays' penance.
On Penance and Abstinence (1966)
Penitential Practices for Today's Catholics
I agree it's frustrating that our bishops keep removing obligations obinding under pain of sin of holydays of obligation and abstinence. Americans as a whole are a self-centered, self-pampering lot.
But why is it when the obligation to abstinence is removed (but not the penance part on Fridays) I forget? It's such a sad commentary on my own spiritual life that I can't keep in focus the spirit of Fridays, remembering the Passion of Christ? And when I do, since it's not an obligation, it's easy to make excuses when something better comes up. 
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Jen L.
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| Posted: April 24 2006 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
I agree it's frustrating that our bishops keep removing obligations obinding under pain of sin of holydays of obligation and abstinence. Americans as a whole are a self-centered, self-pampering lot.
But why is it when the obligation to abstinence is removed (but not the penance part on Fridays) I forget? It's such a sad commentary on my own spiritual life that I can't keep in focus the spirit of Fridays, remembering the Passion of Christ? And when I do, since it's not an obligation, it's easy to make excuses when something better comes up. |
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You know, I don't always get across what I'm thinking, but let me try ...
I SO agree Jen. I try to remember to abstain each Friday, but it seems like more often than not, I forget totally or we're invited to someone's home or something. Until a couple of years ago, I didn't even know about Friday sacrifice except during Lent! (I blame the 1970s "Love" themed CCD and Vatican II.) 
And I, too, am FRUSTRATED that the Bishops keep removing Holy Days of Obligation. Why would a day be obligatory on a Tuesday but not on a Monday!???! But then watch me, when something happens that day, take the out and not end up at Mass. What a hypocrite, I am! It's sad that I need the obligation at times, but I do. The practice in obedience as well as the self-denial are so good for the soul (as Erin said).
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: April 25 2006 at 5:51am | IP Logged
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I think Helen really hit on this in today's Mary Vitamin. She writes:
“But true piety does not allow itself to be smothered by distinctions defining the exact demarcation between obligation and dispensation, the licit and illicit. Over and above neat categorizations the Holy Spirit ‘breathes where He wills’: not contrary to the law, but beyond the law.”
Father Stefano Manelli, FI, All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed, 278.
Footnote Garofalo
Father Manelli explains that the members of the Holy Family were not obliged to go to Jerusalem every year for the important feasts. The requirement fell on those who could travel the distance in one day. It took the Holy Family three days to travel to Jerusalem. Moreover, women were not obliged and neither were children who had not yet reached the age of thirteen.
Resolution:
Our Lady’s piety teaches me not to count costs in what I give to the Lord. I will notice my practices in dress, words, work ethic, courtesy, prayer time and ask myself if I am operating with the minimum in view.
The Prayer of St. Ignatius of Loyola:
“Dear Lord,
Teach me to be generous, teach me to serve as you deserve, to give and not heed the wounds, to toil and not seek for rest, to labor and not seek reward save that of knowing I do your most holy will, O God. Amen.”
There is no harm in embracing acts of piety or sacrifice beyond the "required" particularly if the Lord has led us to see the worth of those age-old acts. And, in doing so, we might bear witness to the fruits of piety.
To subscribe to Helen's Mary Vitamin and get a daily dose of Marian inspiration, go
here and click "subscribe."
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 25 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the post, Helen, and Elizabeth, for bringing to attention!
Does anyone know the historical origin of fish on Fridays? Some other board on allergies mentioned they learned in college it had to do with Portuguese Fishing Trade was in trouble, so the Church helped it along.
Sounds crazy to me, but I haven't found resources yet to prove or disprove.
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Meredith
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This is SOOO true and relevant Elizabeth, and I love my daily dose of Mary Vitamins. I appreciate all the discussion on this!
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MacBeth
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| Posted: April 25 2006 at 9:40am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| Does anyone know the historical origin of fish on Fridays? |
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According to Mark Kurlansky in Salt, fish had to be salted to preserve them before the 'fridge was invented.  The bishops owned the salt mines, salt flats, etc., so fish on Fridays was a form of taxation for the church hierarchy.
Of course, that's the kind of easy answer that the secular world finds digestible. I'm sure if we dig deeper, there are other factors.
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Willa
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| Posted: April 25 2006 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
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Karen E. wrote:
MacBeth wrote:
If you love fish/seafood, is it a sacrifice?
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That's the thing with us -- we do love it, so we often do something other than fish for our meatless meals.
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It is a penance for me, even though I could get by for many days without meat (I gave it up for Lent once and hardly noticed the difference).
The reason it's still penitential to give up meat on Fridays, for me, is that it interferes with my self-will and my desire to do things according to my plan.
This was REALLY difficult for me when I first converted and started trying to follow DH's example of meatless Fridays. I would stand in front of the refrigerator and rationalize about "needing to use up leftovers". It was a real struggle. Pitiful!
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Jen L.
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| Posted: April 26 2006 at 9:27am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
| If you love fish/seafood, is it a sacrifice? Thoughts? |
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I love fish and vegetarian food and so the food itself does not constitute a sacrifice. I do find that being intentional about what we are eating (or not eating) on Fridays helps me to focus on the day. Also, it seems that if it's Friday, I'm more apt to crave meat or want to use a fast food reaturant so that it becomes more of a sacrifice. (There's just no way that I'm eating a "Filet-o-Fish" sandwich -- for me that's just going too far!  )
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Helen
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| Posted: April 26 2006 at 10:54am | IP Logged
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We abstain from meat all Fridays of the year unless it is a solemnity.
Thanks Elizabeth and Meredith for mentioning Mary Vitamin. Although, I feel funny saying thank you because I am only the instrument. I really have to thank the Blessed Virgin. 
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Erin
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Karen E. wrote:
Yes, Erin -- Willa's referring strictly to what the U.S. bishops have decided. I believe the universal norm is still abstinence on Friday, but the Church has left it to the bishops of each country to make final determinations about what they want. |
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It is not abstinence that we have to practice here but some form of penance. Many choose to practice abstienence as their form of penance. Or some will preform some form of good works instead of penance.
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Erin
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| Posted: April 26 2006 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
| I have heard that a soup and bread dinner on Wednesdays is also a good sacrifice (don't recall where I hear that). Thoughts? |
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Macbeth,
I have a friend who practices no meat on Wednesdays as well. She is a beleiver in Medjouigorie (wron spelling I know) ans says that Our Lady at M. said to do this, so this is why they do. Perhaps this is where you have heard this?
BTW it is most interesting reading what you are all saying about fish on Fridays I always just thought that Catholics ate fish instead of meat as that was all they knew how to cook. You know prior to vegetarianism.
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rose gardens
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We take a different angel to "Fish on Fridays". At snack time, we crunch goldfish crackers (or the cheaper, generic whales.) Depending on my motivation level, we add other fishy fun. We listen to "Sea Tunes", (silly songs about fish.) We play games like "go fish", sew cards the shape of aquatic animals, read boks about sharks, etc.
I usually cook meatless meals every Friday, (but not always once lent ends.) The children look forward to "fish on Friday", meals and all. My 7 year old expects maccaroni and cheese for lunch every friday, and if we don't have fish crackers, we have tears.
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SaraP
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| Posted: April 27 2006 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
It is a penance for me, even though I could get by for many days without meat (I gave it up for Lent once and hardly noticed the difference).
The reason it's still penitential to give up meat on Fridays, for me, is that it interferes with my self-will and my desire to do things according to my plan. |
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Ditto.
We do meatless Fridays year-round.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: How Many Friday Fish Eaters??
