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kristacecilia
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| Posted: July 02 2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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I purchased the Grammar Leveland Beginner Level book lists for Connecting with History, vol. 2 to use starting in the fall... or whenever we get to that time period, really.
My idea was to buy the books and use it conjunction with a Book of Centuries (for the 7 year old) as a CM style history study with narrations and copywork included.
So I am looking at these mountains of books and thinking, is it too much? For example, in the first unit (which I was going to cover in 5 weeks) they have the grammar level read through 272 pages of Augustus Caesar's World, plus several other reading selections.
I wanted to do this with my seven year old son because he reads very far ahead of grade level (like 6th or 7th grade, probably?) and I felt like the beginner level books weren't meaty enough for him. I want meaty, but I don't want to stuff him so full of MEAT that he doesn't actually get anything from it, you know?
So.. should I cut it back? This is basically what it works out to for the first 5 weeks:
-Augustus Caesar's World, one section, 5 times a week (with narrations)
- A Life of Our Lord for Children, one chapter, one time a week.
- Spend the Day in Ancient Rome, one chapter, one time a week.
- City, one section, twice per week.
- Twelve Bright Trumpets, 3 pages, once per week.
- Bible for Young Catholics, two selections somewhere in the 5 weeks.
- Dover Life in Ancient Rome coloring book for fun.
- Book of Centuries work (just adding timeline figurines, mostly) on Fridays
- Cleopatra in the literature basket for fun reading whenever he wants.
It just seems like so MUCH. I feel like we should be reading less, more slowly to really digest it.
Does anyone else find the CwH booklist to be too MUCH? Is it because I am trying to make this work for a seven year old, or is this really just TOO much to work for CM style history in a 5 week period?
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Krista
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kristacecilia
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Maybe I should just scrap the whole idea of using the grammar level books and just use the beginner ones. Ugh. Am I way over thinking this?
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Krista
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Mackfam
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kristacecilia wrote:
I purchased the Grammar Leveland Beginner Level book lists for Connecting with History, vol. 2 to use starting in the fall... or whenever we get to that time period, really.
My idea was to buy the books and use it conjunction with a Book of Centuries (for the 7 year old) as a CM style history study with narrations and copywork included.
So I am looking at these mountains of books and thinking, is it too much? For example, in the first unit (which I was going to cover in 5 weeks) they have the grammar level read through 272 pages of Augustus Caesar's World, plus several other reading selections.
I wanted to do this with my seven year old son because he reads very far ahead of grade level (like 6th or 7th grade, probably?) and I felt like the beginner level books weren't meaty enough for him. I want meaty, but I don't want to stuff him so full of MEAT that he doesn't actually get anything from it, you know?
So.. should I cut it back?
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So, here's how your days break out (not including the Bible for Young Catholics selections):
MONDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 1 section
Twelve Bright Trumpets - 3 pages
TUESDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 1 section
A Life of Our Lord for Children - 1 chapter
WEDNESDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 1 section
Spend the Day in Ancient Rome - 1 chapter
THURSDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 1 section
City - 1 chapter
FRIDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 1 section
City - 1 chapter
************************************************************ ********
I get what you're saying - your 7 yo reads well, but you don't want to overstuff the history reading. Good thinking!
I'd probably stretch Augustus Caesar's World so that it goes very slowly (but....I don't have the book, and don't know how many total pages or the reading level, how many pictures per page, etc...so...do take this with a grain of salt!!!), and keep:
City
A Life of Our Lord for Children
** (I'm not familiar with Twelve Bright Trumpets, but if it looks really good I might see about working it in. We found Spend the Day in Ancient Rome a little dry, and it was not my kids fav book, which is why I'd probably leave it on the shelf until your next trip through this period.
I'd stretch those two (or three books) out so that he's not reading more than 4 pages from each book a day...so maybe 5 - 6 pages a day of history reading TOTAL...and that would be on the high side for a 7yo, but I'm going with your description of a very good reader that enjoys reading and is reading well. This could look differently...but here are a couple of different ways this could look:
************************************************************ *****
MONDAY - FRIDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 4 pages
City - 2 pages
********** OR **********
MONDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 6 pages
Mapwork
TUESDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 6 pages
Rabbit Trails - life in Rome, Roman dress, food, customs, etc.
WEDNESDAY
Augustus Caesar's World - 6 pages
Book of Century work
THURSDAY
City - 4 pages
Projects
FRIDAY
City - 4 pages
Book of Century Work
************************************************************ *****
That leaves room for other reading and ensures that he has time to develop relationships with the ideas in the books. That's my 2 cents anyway. And....even if you have some extra books, take heart, you will use them eventually. This is only your first pass at this time period!! Consider the extra books an investment in your home library and give yourself permission to use what's best for this year.
************>> NOW ***********>> if you don't have a lot of other meaty reading in your day, and your CWH reading is really it, then I might be tempted to give your first list as you have it written a try, especially if your son tries the reading schedule for a week and enjoys it!! So...there's really no set answer, and a lot of variables to consider. Hope I've given you a few different ideas so you can consider what's best for you guys!
Good luck deciding, Krista!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 02 2011 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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kristacecilia wrote:
| Maybe I should just scrap the whole idea of using the grammar level books and just use the beginner ones. Ugh. Am I way over thinking this? |
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Not really! It's good to brainstorm this and go in with eyes wide open. You're picking up on a concern that is right. Continue to brainstorm this one out by looking at your WHOLE day, what you've got going and a general idea of:
2 - 4 living books read from each day :: 4 pages from each book :: up to about 16 pages read per day
My figures are actually a little higher than CM's sourch (PNEU schools), which is what this guideline is based on for a child that is around 7 yo. But, I have strong readers, too, and have found that a slightly higher reading count works well for us. Since you mentioned your son was a strong reader, I thought I'd share my guideline with you.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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Angel
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You know... I think I'd save Augustus Caesar's World for when he's older. It's not that he wouldn't be able to read it if his reading ability is good... it's just that I think that book demands a little more maturity from the reader (or listener).
I personally use the CwH lists very loosely. My older two are strong readers now and I still find benefits to reading aloud sort of slowly through books with lots of time for discussion. Also, I think you mentioned elsewhere that your ds was very resistant to narration? I would NOT have him narrate a difficult book like Augustus Caesar's World. I think that's just setting yourself up for a power struggle.
Twelve Bright Trumpets is good, but I like it as a read aloud.
I also like A Life of Our Lord For Children, but again, I used that as a read aloud (even with my strong readers). I think my kids were maybe 11 and 8 or 9 when I read that one aloud?
I have a few more thoughts but am being attacked by a baby. Will try to add them soon!!
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ekbell
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When using CWH I normally center my reading schedule around the core books, adding further books as time and interest allows.
The core books are the books which we read in a CM fashion, slowly, throughly with plenty of discussion.
The other books are either put onto the free reading shelf or used as part of other lessons (picture or music study -more relevant for vol 3- literature reading, religion etc.).
BTW I found with my strongest reader that I had to be careful not to confuse a good vocabulary and ability to follow a plot line well enough to enjoy higher level books with the ability to easily understand and retain meaty ideas from said books. I found that at she could handle more reading or deeper reading then recommended for her age grouping but not always both at the same time.
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SuzanneG
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ekbell wrote:
| I found that at she could handle more reading or deeper reading then recommended for her age grouping but not always both at the same time. |
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Excellent point!!!!! That's why it's always fun to pick and choose for a particular child....keeping in mind all these things.
:: depth of content
:: reading level
:: quantity of material
All these things come into play when choosing / assigning those readings and choosing books!
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pmeilaen
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Angel wrote:
You know... I think I'd save Augustus Caesar's World for when he's older. It's not that he wouldn't be able to read it if his reading ability is good... it's just that I think that book demands a little more maturity from the reader (or listener).
I also like A Life of Our Lord For Children, but again, I used that as a read aloud (even with my strong readers). I think my kids were maybe 11 and 8 or 9 when I read that one aloud?
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I have to agree here. I have just finished Augustus Caesar's World with my 7th grader. I don't think that the material is appropriate for a 7 year old! We are using A Life of Our Lord for Children as read aloud also, but my almost 6 year old is not interested at all so far!
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kristacecilia
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Angel wrote:
| You know... I think I'd save Augustus Caesar's World for when he's older. It's not that he wouldn't be able to read it if his reading ability is good... it's just that I think that book demands a little more maturity from the reader (or listener). |
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Thank you! This is actually just the type of advice I am looking for. I am finding it so confusing and difficult to figure out what to offer him and even where he REALLY is. I know he can read a lot, and I know he can understand a lot, but I know that doesn't translate to the maturity to handle the books. I haven't read the whole book, so I am so happy to see people telling me to back down. ;)
Also, you are right; he is still a very reluctant narrator and I am still having to work with him on it. That was another one of my major concerns with trying to use the grammar level books- I don't want him just reading stuff and not understanding. I would rather him read and narrate and have that complete integration of the ideas and material like CM talks about using ONE SHORT book, if that is all he can handle.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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kristacecilia
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Mackfam wrote:
Not really! It's good to brainstorm this and go in with eyes wide open. You're picking up on a concern that is right. Continue to brainstorm this one out by looking at your WHOLE day, what you've got going and a general idea of:
2 - 4 living books read from each day :: 4 pages from each book :: up to about 16 pages read per day
My figures are actually a little higher than CM's sourch (PNEU schools), which is what this guideline is based on for a child that is around 7 yo. But, I have strong readers, too, and have found that a slightly higher reading count works well for us. Since you mentioned your son was a strong reader, I thought I'd share my guideline with you. |
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Jen, as always, your posts were incredibly helpful. I think the other posters are right in saying that this material is just going to be too mature for him. I do want him to be challenged, though. This is my biggest problem so far. Do you have any favorite books you'd be willing to recommend for this time period and age group?
I wanted to thank you for those numbers above, btw. I am going to keep that in mind when I am figuring out how much we should read per day.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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kristacecilia
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Thank you also, Eva, Suzanne, and ekbell. Everything has been very helpful. I am definitely going to back off the harder readings. I get so caught up in trying to keep him challenged with new reading material that I just forget he's seven.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 06 2011 at 9:39pm | IP Logged
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kristacecilia wrote:
| Do you have any favorite books you'd be willing to recommend for this time period and age group? |
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** The Man Who Never Died: The Life and Adventures of St. Peter the First Pope by Father Gerald Brennan (reprinted by Sophia Institute Press
** A Life of Our Lord for Children and
** The Acts of the Apostles both by Marigold Hunt (but like everyone else, these may be read alouds)
** Leif the Lucky by d'Aulaire
Also...
** The Dujarie Press books that coordinate with this time period - they're listed in the Beginner Books as part of the *Footprints of the Saints* series....and all have blue covers.
And...
** Many picture books
At 7, we're really *just* easing into reading about history, therefore our reading selection is light enough so that it doesn't topple our reading guide (which I listed above of 16 pages a day) and doesn't overwhelm young readers with more mature details of history. The wonderful thing about living books is that they span a very wide range of ages; I don't discount a quality living picture book for ANY age!!
I usually take one or two great living books and break it down into VERY bitesize reading chunks for independent reading for the year, and then read aloud A LOT of picture books and maybe read aloud one chapter book to round out the rest.
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Jen Mackintosh
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kristacecilia
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Jen, I would love to know how you break down subjects and pages per day, if you don't mind sharing. What subjects do your four books cover, and do you assign four pages to each straight?
The way I am planning now, 6-8 pages a day is for history (from two separate books). The rest....?
Maybe I should start a new thread on this.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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AmyRobynne
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This has been a really helpful thread.
Krista, my older boys are '04 and '06 kids and are early readers too. I just got CWH Vol 2 and was able to buy a number of the beginner and grammar level books used for cheap off of the cathswap list. Nearly all of the literature titles are available at my library (yay!) so I don't need to worry about which of those to buy.
I'd love to hear how your year with CWH went and what you'd recommend for someone starting now with 3rd and 1st graders who read well.
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kristacecilia
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Amy Robynne,
Well.. I actually scrapped the whole idea of CwH. I kept looking at it and looking at it and it was going to take SO much work to pick out just a few things I thought would mesh well with where we were.
Instead I decided to just use 50 Famous Stories Retold and Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans, read one story aloud a day, and have my son (who is still struggling with narrations) narrate it back to me.
I don't really regret buying the books because I am working on building up a living history library anyway and the manual has A LOT of good information for me, as the teacher, for when my sons are a little older- dates and names of important things, lots of ideas, etc.
I just doubt I will ever use it as it is written, and definitely not for JUST a 1st and 3rd grader. I could see doing it more if I had older kids- like middle schoolers and high schoolers- plus little ones.
I really believe in the CM method so I am trying to stick to what she recommended- stories about people, not so much events, and waiting to start a Book of Centuries in 4th or 5th grade.
For this upcoming year I am going to do a combination of world history (covering the Greeks) and US/Canadian history (my family is both American and Canadian) using just living books.
I really think the CwH is a great resource but it's just too much for my family. I needed something much more low key. And I still think there was entirely too much reading assigned! It makes my head spin to think about reading AND ABSORBING that much at this age.
For 2013/14 I plan to do the Romans and the Early Church (so the books I purchased from CwH) and definitely use the manual as a guide for me and plan to assign several of the books I purchased from the booklists.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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Erica Sanchez
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I will try to go and look at the CwH site in a minute as I have only been there once, but I did not think their materials or volumes or however they divide the material was meant for younger children??? I thought the recommendation was to begin Vol. 1 later, maybe around 4th grade??
I am interested in this history program as an alternative to SOTW, which we have never used but many in my local group use, so I will go and take a look sometime today.
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AmyRobynne
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I'm leaning towards using the beginner level books for our core rather than grammar level but having a lot of the grammar level literature around if they want to read them on their own. Then we'll hopefully be able have them more thoroughly understand the critical stuff but be able to read more if they like.
In a more general question, how are you able to specify only short chunks of books to read? My kids are used to sitting down and reading 30 pages. How does it work when they're supposed to read 4 pages of this and a few pages of that?
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CrunchyMom
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kristacecilia wrote:
Amy Robynne,
Well.. I actually scrapped the whole idea of CwH. I kept looking at it and looking at it and it was going to take SO much work to pick out just a few things I thought would mesh well with where we were.
Instead I decided to just use 50 Famous Stories Retold and Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans, read one story aloud a day, and have my son (who is still struggling with narrations) narrate it back to me.
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I think this is great. I wish I had done something similar to this for 2nd grade.
That said, I do love Life of Our Lord, and my 7 year old was able to read 3-4 pages from it and narrate fairly well. We only did that once a week, and we're still using it. I categorized it as "Religion" rather than "History," so I'm not trying to match it to any particular time period of study. And we're still working through it starting in the Fall and will continue on through to Acts of the Apostles. I think it is a child friendly way to become intimate with the gospel stories.
All that to say, you don't have to use the recommendations as originally intended if there are some titles you thought your son would like. Life of Our Lord would also make a nice read aloud starting in Advent and paced through until Easter for liturgical reading.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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AmyRobynne
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I meant to add that my current plan is to pretty much skip the writing prompts. We'd read a lot, use the books for narration and copywork to an extent, and do some of the projects if the kids are excited about them.
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kristacecilia
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My big concern with doing large chunks of reading is that so much will be lost on them because they simply won't/can't remember and absorb all the information from 30 pages. I don't think they could narrate it, either. That sounds like a LOT.
With just 3 or 4 pages of reading they could narrate it and absorb what they are learning. But if you do really short readings with narration you can never make it through all the readings that CwH assigns. Not that I could figure, anyway.
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Krista
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: CwH too much reading to be CM?
