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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 07 2011 at 6:04pm | IP Logged
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My DS sooo wants to be "cool". He wants an Ipod, cell phone, unlimited video game time, tv time and computer time and he can't wait till he can drive! He's 10!! But I do think part of this is natural "growing up" but I'm very strict and most of these are not allowed b/c he's not responsible. He asks when he'll be an adult and I say "18 but you prob. won't grow up till you're about 25".  Until then, I believe my responsiblity is to help protect him from making life-altering decisions (those that could involve death or amputations or spiritual decay). I think it is a hard balancing act betw. giving freedom and overprotection. However, I also tell him A LOT that freedom comes when he builds trust by making wise choices and being responsible. I suppose that differs from one family to another. I try to remind him when he's done something untrustworthy and when he has done something trustworthy which obviuosly isn't as often!
Gotta ball game now...
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 08 2011 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
What did you think of the chapter on electronic stuff?
She mentions all sorts.. and music and mp3 files seperately. I know my son listens to audio books.. but I guess I never really thought of that as media.. but more like reading a book. He struggles with reading so he listens to the book while reading along, but he really learns very well by listening rather than reading so I really was thinking there was no harm in doing this for him.
And I still think the benefits outway the negatives at least for this form of media use.
But I'm not sure if I'm just shocked at what she was saying is out there that is drawing boys in.. or what. I mean my kids use the computer. But they're not in chat rooms or anything like that.. the computer is in the juncture of major rooms so almost the hub of the house so it's easy to keep an eye on.. and it's rare for someone to be able to do anything without someone else knowing.
How do you limit electronics? and what do you feel makes the trade off of using them acceptable? |
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I personally wouldn't think that listening to an audio book as "media time" (esp. if it's something you've approved). I think the problem with media overall is that it's so very difficult to control it...a little here, a little there and then a little more and by the time they are 16, 17, 18 they all have the cell phones, ipods, video games, R rated movies etc.
What I don't understand is, that it seems that a lot of parents "get it" (the whole limiting media) but don't enforce it. Why is that? Is it apathy, ignorance, peer pressure , kid pressure? I must admit that it gets increasingly difficult to enforce b/c "everyone's got it". How can my son have any friends left to "hang in the woods" with if every.single.one of his friends has a cell phone, ipod, Nintendo, xbox? I'm not saying it's that extreme at his current age but I see the trend heading that way. For now, at age 10, I can say "you're not going to waste this sunshine by sitting in front of a screen so go play". Will that still work at ages 13, 15, 17 when there just aren't the friends left to "play with"? They all hang out at that point and do what?
I think it's like anything...constant conversation about making good choices, how these things work as well as diminishing some of the temptation where possible. For example, if I want to send DH a text from my phone, I'll let DS do it. If he wants to play his Nintendo, it's usu. w/ his sister or dad. The Wii is def. a friend thing. With Spring and Fall, media time here is waaay less than 1 hour a day for all my kids (I have no idea where she got the figure of 6 hrs!). During Winter and Summer, there's def. more media time just b/c it's either too cold or too hot. Now I guess I better go set a better example by chatting with my IRL friends in the neighborhood instead of with my cyber friends.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 08 2011 at 10:24pm | IP Logged
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The 6 hrs she says is from the Kaiser Family Foundation
and media time is computer use, radio, mp3, CD, and tv. And for kids that don't have a parent home after school.. I bet it would be easy to get that in. When you're home alone and not allowed to go outside.. yeah easy. And when you're talking averages of a norm..
I also would bet that homeschoolers and those that have a parent at home before and after school would average less media time than the norm.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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stellamaris
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| Posted: April 09 2011 at 2:25pm | IP Logged
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I thought I'd share what we have been doing to help with media control here. First of all, all visual media fall under the terminology "SCREENS". My daughter is not really a problem; she rarely watches TV and is usually busy with school work, sports, etc. (She is going to a Catholic school, which is a whole other conversation!).
I decided that I didn't want the "screens" on for more than 1 hour a day, max. That's seven hours a week, or about 2 1/2 hours per boy per week (three boys). I realized that when one boy turns on the TV or gets onto the computer, they ALL watch it. I made tokens for each boy using those round paper tags with the metal edges you can get at Staples. One side has the name of the boy, the other says "1/2 hr." On Fridays, each boy has 5 tokens put into the box. When they want to watch TV or play computer games, they have to hand me the token, which I put away in another box in an undisclosed location (so they can't get the token out again!). When the tokens are gone, so is the screen time. Sometimes this means they watch all 2 1/2 hours on Saturday, and nothing the rest of the week, but that's their choice!
We've used this as a reward system, too, by allowing them to earn an extra token for consistently making their beds, or brushing their teeth, or whatever habit they are working on at the time. They have a 3x5 card divided into the days of the week (Saturday through Friday). Each day they complete the habit, they can put a sticker in the box on the card for that day. If the card is filled up on Friday, they get an extra token.
You could also take tokens away for bad behavior.
Educational movies or computer based learning/research don't fall under "screen" time, but I try not to do too much of that in any given week. Usually one educational movie about every other week or less. The computer learning time varies from nothing to more (when, for example, someone is working on learning to type or doing Rosetta Stone). For the sake of their eyes, I do try to limit computer time to no more than 20-30 minutes a session when they have some work to do that requires the use of the computer.
The other aspect of this token system that I like is that it resolves the question of who gets to pick the show/game. If Boy X is spending the token for that 1/2 hr., then Boy X gets to choose the show. Finally, once a token is "spent", it's gone. So if a boy is not able to complete his time (say, for example, he didn't make his bed and Mom insists he make it right NOW), he's out of luck. If he started at 1:00 p.m., time is over at 1:30 p.m., whether or not he was able to spend the entire time on the screen or not.
Really, it would probably be better to ditch the screens altogether, but since we aren't ready to do that, this is one way to get a "grip" on the TV/video game monster.
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
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Marcia
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| Posted: April 10 2011 at 11:16pm | IP Logged
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Now I guess I better go set a better example by chatting with my IRL friends in the neighborhood instead of with my cyber friends. 
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Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
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MaryM
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| Posted: April 10 2011 at 11:50pm | IP Logged
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Marcia wrote:
Now I guess I better go set a better example by chatting with my IRL friends in the neighborhood instead of with my cyber friends.
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- yeah that would be me too...
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
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Can I still post here even though we've moved on? I still haven't read the next 3 chapters either but just finished Ch 5 today. 
There is a lot in the book I readily agree with but through so much of the book, I seem to feel that something seems "off" to me. May be it's b/c I have just the one boy, my only older brother is 9 years older, I didn't have a strong male influence growing up until my teen years so my insight into boys is def. limited. I guess my question is whether her broad statements about boys in general covers the "extremes" either way. And I guess to say "extremes" might even be subjective. It's just that my DS, relative to other boys his age, is soooo inattentive, soooo unfocused, soooo far behind in learning that we are near the point of at least trying ADD medication. So far, I'm getting the feeling from reading that I'm not even sure she thinks there is such a thing. We've struggled for 6 YEARS with this so I'm wondering if I'm just getting tired and worn down from having 2 other little ones now or am I doing him a disservice by not providing him with something that can help bring him clarity and focus? I think my "boy should be a boy" and in so many ways and in so many areas we provide so much of what she says we should...time with parents, religious education, lots of time for free play and exploration, strict limits on media time. I look at him as a WHOLE person but this obvious inability to focus is really hindering him in many ways and it's this PART right now that we are trying to help.
Ultimately...may be this hasn't even crossed your mind if it's not an issue with any of your sons but what do you think her take is on ADD in general after reading so far?
Thanks,
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
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I think she's targeting the "he must have ADHD" statements for any child that just needs to move more than the schools like.. which is also understandable considering how many students are in the classroom etc.
I don't think she's attacking the real clinical problems.. which there are some.. but rather what 50 yrs ago would have just been boys being boys.
There's a great deal of difference between children that can learn to function if not crammed into a range of normal so narrow that many simply can't fit.. and those that need help to learn to function.
And I would say without any testing.. that myself and several of my children.. and very possibly my dh would have some level of ADD, but at this point it's still possible to learn to function without intervention for all of us. And I would also say that it's probably a very sensitive subject for you because you're at a level that needs help vs just needs some leeway in behavior.. it's a continuum.. it's not either you have ADD or you don't.. but that after a point you have enough characteristics to be ADD.. and the more you have the harder it is to function.. those just over that line into ADD can probably learn to function on their own.. others with more traits that are problematic more often, may need additional help.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Kathryn
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
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I guess that's what struck me in this last chapter was the talk about brain wiring and how boys are in such a state of maturation into their 20s that how "his brain needs constant training and he can learn to be responsible for his behaviors, his impulses...". I guess I still wonder if ADD med is a "cop-out" and when I read stuff like this it makes me think so. It makes me think that if I work harder to teach him how to train his brain he won't need meds.
She also mentions on p. 84 about how some of us cling to neuroscience to account for a boy's behavior to "let us off the hook. It makes life easier for us." Would ADD meds make life easier for me? I would hope so. Again, is that a cop-out? You do seem to understand, Jodie. Thanks!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn, my measuring stick for lack of a better word is.. is this behavior preventing him from being able to function? If yes, have you tried lower tech things to help? if those don't work, then it's really not beneficial to the child to not get them the help they need including meds.
I really think she's addressing those that don't want to change how they teach and train and just want to throw up their hands and say.. get that boy meds so I can handle him *my way*, without changing *myself* or *my methods*.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 13 2011 at 7:35am | IP Logged
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I agree with Jodie. I don't think she is downplaying or throwing out that there are definitely some children with ADD or ADHD. It's just that there are so many more "cases" that she is looking at the probability of many of them not being true cases.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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SeaStar
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| Posted: April 13 2011 at 4:01pm | IP Logged
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I love everything the author said on pages 130-131...about how boys need less of everything: clothes, toys, equipment, activities- and more time to be bored. Yes, bored! Time to let their imaginations work. More time with mom and dad.
I really thought her comments on how parents are competing with each other were very interesting. I have to do this because Mrs. Z does that- the whole keeping up with the Joneses thing. Isn't that the truth? It is rampant where I live. The kids just want to play, but the moms are afraid they will miss out on something if they just let them play.
And who is suffering for it? The kids.
The moms in my neighborhood tell me that their kids love all their extra activities, but I don't know.... I have seen screaming meltdowns accompanied by, "Why do I have to go? I don't even like Lego club!" and "Basketball is not my thing but mom says I have to stick it out this season."
I also hear a lot of this: He has to finish camp/basketball season/ swim lessons because he has to learn that we don't quit things. I don't want him to be a quitter.
That attitude seems all wrong to me- how about: hey, I'm glad you gave basketball a try for a month. You did a great job trying something new. It's OK if you don't like it.
Sheesh- I try things all the time and quit them if I don't like them... I don't finish books that I don't like, I rip out knitting that isn't turning out right, etc. I feel like we are putting enormous pressure on our boys.
A lady I know made her ds finish a week of dance camp even though he hated it.... seems wrong to me. 
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kristacecilia
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I know I am behind in the discussion (I just got my book the other day) but I am sitting here pondering what the author mentions on page 38/39 about boys needing to be involved less in organized sports and more in pick-up type games where there is a broader spectrum of ages, where the child can start off as the ball boy and work his way up.
I have a just-turned seven year old son who wants to play hockey. Every single day there is a pick up street hockey game going on in the road in front of my house. Boys are coming from all over the neighborhood to take part. Another mom and I were discussing if we felt like our boys- both seven- were ready to go join the older kids. Some of these boys are in middle school or even early high school.
I actually had been considering letting my son go for awhile. My biggest concern isn't that he will be made to go get all the lost balls (the other mom mentioned that she didn't want her son always getting the short end of the stick) but that there will be a lot of foul language and inappropriate conversation.
I dunno... any suggestions on if I should let my seven year old go would be appreciated. Or should I start a new thread on this to keep it on topic?
I do agree with what Dr. Meeker says about the subject, but I am just not sure what an appropriate age would be to start encouraging them to go.
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Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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kristacecilia
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| Posted: April 16 2011 at 9:07am | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
My DS sooo wants to be "cool". He wants an Ipod, cell phone, unlimited video game time, tv time and computer time and he can't wait till he can drive! He's 10!! But I do think part of this is natural "growing up" but I'm very strict and most of these are not allowed b/c he's not responsible. He asks when he'll be an adult and I say "18 but you prob. won't grow up till you're about 25". Until then, I believe my responsiblity is to help protect him from making life-altering decisions (those that could involve death or amputations or spiritual decay). I think it is a hard balancing act betw. giving freedom and overprotection. However, I also tell him A LOT that freedom comes when he builds trust by making wise choices and being responsible. I suppose that differs from one family to another. I try to remind him when he's done something untrustworthy and when he has done something trustworthy which obviuosly isn't as often!
Gotta ball game now... |
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My son is starting to be like this- he's just seven! He wants a DS, he wants to spend all his free time playing video games. My husband has an ipod, a PS3, just got a big TV to play his video games, plays computer games, is into music and such. My DH also enjoys sports- hockey and baseball- both watching and participating. I don't want to be the mean parent.... but I don't want my kids always on the electronic stuff.
We both agree that he is too young for a DS, although I feel stronger about it than my DH. He does have an mp3 player that I put audiobooks and kids stuff on.
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God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 16 2011 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
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Krista is there a way you can watch the hockey game? I've found here that maybe it was my presence watching but often the older boys would make changes in their behavior when around younger kids and include them etc.
So I might just tell him he could try it when I could watch.. but I'd stay back and be unobtrusive.. not there to referee or make things happen my way.. just observe and see how things are working. And then decide from there to let him go more or not.. and if you do decide to let him go.. if he's not happy with what he gets to do.. he'll stop wanting to go.
And Krista, remember it's not necessarily wanting to be "cool like other kids" when what they're doing is copying dad.. dad is the ultimate example of how to be a man and they're gonna want to do the things dad does.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: BOYS SHOULD BE BOYS - WEEK 2
