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MichelleW
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| Posted: June 07 2006 at 7:18pm | IP Logged
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Michelle:
Todd and I were married 18 years ago. In our first year of marriage we had
3 miscarriages, after which my doctor said that my uterine lining was so
destroyed and my body was not replacing it with viable lining but with
scar tissue, that he was sure we would never be able to get pregnant
again.
For 8 years he was right, so we adopted our first son in 1997. When Gabe
was a month old we found out that I was expecting and was already at 16
weeks. Dominick was born prematurely and so my sons are 5 months apart.
During my pregnancy with Dominick the doctors all (it was a difficult
pregnancy and I had a team of doctors) told me that the pregnancy was
inexplicable, that everything that was wrong with my body before was still
wrong and to not expect to be able to have any more children.
A few months later I found I was pregnant again and it was the happiest
moment in my life. Olivia was born 13 months after Dominick giving us 3
children under 18 months old. It was quite a rollercoaster ride and I was
exhausted most of the time, but it was wonderful too. My doctor insisted
that we consider birth control. We considered NFP briefly and then decided
that we could not close ourselves to God's plan for our family. That
acceptance of whatever God had for us changed the way Todd and I related
to each other. It made intimacy more intimate, knowing that this was hard,
but we were in this together, and that we could be "fruitful."
A year after Olivia was born I had an ectopic pregnancy. I waited so long
before going in that the doctor told my husband, just another 10 minutes
and I would have died. I was in the hospital a long time. It was very
traumatic, but what helped was that my body was in pain as well. It is
somehow comforting to be in pain in your body when your heart hurts so
much. We suffered one more miscarriage a few months later and since then
we have had no more pregnancies, but lots of hope.
Two years ago my doctors started telling me I needed a hysterectomy. I had
excessive bleeding, pain in abdomen. They said my uterus was atrophied, my
ovaries had so many cysts on them they looked like cauliflower. I
couldn't do it. I felt that God could do anything. That even if He did not
chose to bless us with more children the decision should be His and not
mine. I refused to slam that door shut and throw away that key. My health
got worse and worse. Still, I insisted that pain was not reason enough for
the surgery. My priest gave me permission, but I still would not give up.
Finally, last summer I spent so much time in bed because of the loss of
blood and the exhaustion brought on by the pain that Todd pleaded with me
to submit to surgery. He convinced me that this was affecting our family
in ways I had never considered.
The surgery was to take 1 1/2 hours. It took 4. The doctor and the
pathologist with a combined 54 years of experience both said that my
uterus was the worst they had ever seen. The doctor said that they found
pre-cancerous cells of a most virulent form of ovarian cancer on my
ovaries, appendix and throughout the lining of many of my internal organs.
He felt that the timing was perfect, that if we had done this earlier he
might not have gotten it all, later and it would have been full-blown
cancer. It was somewhat reassuring.
That is my extremely long story (and that is the short version). The
surgery was in November. We started the paperwork for another adoption in
January. I know that God is not done adding to our family. However, though
I love all my children and adoption is a wonderful way to add to our
family, it does not change that intimacy with my husband can no longer be
fruitful. That is the change in thinking that has to happen. I do not need
to change how I see my family, but how I see intimacy with my husband.
And, I guess, how I see myself as a woman.
Michelle
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MichelleW
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Kathryn:
I just want to start by saying how good God is to bring two like-minded
people together - you and I are on the same wavelength, Michelle.
As you described your own thoughts and decisions, I could only think, "Yep.
That's what I'd have done." I would have refused to close myself off from
God's plan too. I would have waited until I could wait no longer also (in
fact, I did - in my 20s I was told it would be best to have a hysterectomy,
but I could not believe I was not meant to have ANY children - it seemed too
drastic a step). My husband and I also found that when things were
difficult, at least we were in this together and that brought us closer
together - we once had to abstain for an entire year, as I had undergone a
medical treatment that would probably harm the fetus if I'd conceived within
that time. If it had not been medically necessary to save my life, I would
never have consented to the surgery either. I love the way you said that
this was the "short version" of your story - there are always so many
meaningful details we must leave out, aren't there? In Heaven, we will be
able to share every nuance of grace.
I don't know that I have come to any more profound insights than you have
regarding my attitude toward intimacy or toward my own femininity. Inasmuch
as we are called to be open to receive and be fruitful, the whole thing
seems very difficult. Of course, there are the new challenges of intimacy
when our husbands are called to consider our changed physiology, and this
can make us more sensitive to one another. This is part of the meaning of
conjugal love, of course - expressing our love in a way that is always
sensitive to the other. And although our fruitfulness has been removed from
our bodies (this still is painful to me to realize, 5 years later; and I
gave birth to 7 children! Don't you love God's humor? They told us we'd have
none, and God gave us the Biblical number of completeness.), we can still be
fruitful. We both have children to mother, praise God; but we will often
find ourselves "mothering" other souls as well.
To be completely honest (that's why we're having this discussion, right?), I
still have some difficulty giving myself to my husband with a feeling of as
much "meaningfulness" as I did before. There is something missing - the
possibility of conceiving a new life is not there. And when conceiving a new
life is as "iffy" and even "risky" as it was for both of us, that
possibility and the commitment to be open to it is a more profound
experience, I think. With that element gone, the attitude toward intimacy is
definitely different. No doubt. My own dh is not very sensitive to this
particular facet of my experience, and so there is a loneliness in it as
well. This is perhaps the most difficult part - that there are so few that
understand, and so few with whom to talk about it. When I have tried, I
always hear something like, "Well, you should be happy to have 7!" I am. But
still. How do I see myself now, with that profound element of my identity
gone? I don't have a clear answer to that question.
I said before that my consolation is always in the fact that there was no
choice for me (or for you), and when we have no choice, we know that it is
God's will for us. So, if God says I am done for now, I am done. Again, this
is easier for me. I have seven, and they keep me very busy. But whenever I
am tempted to dwell too long on the fact of my "unfruitfulness" I turn to
this certainty and can face the rest. I often focus my attention on the fact
that my husband needs to express his love, and I need to express mine to
him; but this is much more difficult for me. Maybe this is simply the cross
we must endure, as there is no restoring what once was.
Aaaaach. I have rambled pitifully here, because my house is so noisy and
rambunctious this afternoon and I am being interrupted repeatedly. I hope it
makes sense. I don't want to delay sending it or it could take days - never
know when I'll get back to the computer. I pray there is something in all
this that might spark some meaningful discussion, but I dunno....
Let's continue to pray for light and peace -
Kathryn
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MichelleW
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Jackie:
Hi Kathryn and Michelle,
First let me tip my hat to you two wonderful ladies. Your stories
are awesome, such a love and devotion to your family and to the
wonderful gift of Life God gives to us.
I will just make a quick note right now. I have dinner going and
need to get back to it but I will give you a little background
and write more later.
My husband Jim and I will be married 24 years this Sept. I am 42
years old and we have 7 children and 2 in Heaven that I
miscarried. The children are 22,20,17,16,13,11,and my baby is 10. I
had my surgery 6 years ago, my story is .... well lets say I
feel like I let my husband but mostly God down. I had medical
reasons but I feel a better person would have stuck it out
longer. I had endometerosis (sp?) in between the lining of the
uterus and the wall. So when I was not pregnant I was in constant
pain. I spent the last few years before my surgery in bed or on the
couch ALL the time. My kids were needing me to teach and I just
couldn't keep up, there was no desire for "other" things because it
hurt so bad. This had been going on since my 20's but every year
got worse and worse. I even tried the pill because
they said it would make it better, but I couldn't do that more than
2 months because I hated just the idea of what I was doing even
though I was told it was the "double jeopardy" rule I still
couldn't do it and honestly it didn't help. By the time I finally
decided to have the surgery I was not able to be on my feet for
very long periods and the guilt I was having of not being able to
be the Wife, Mother and Teacher that everyone needed me to be was
really piling on. So I did it, I was very sad for about 6 months
but I threw myself into my family & school. I was very busy with
the 7 getting my first one ready for college years working on
making sure he had everything he needed because of my slothful
years earlier I worked very hard with him, (plus the second one who
was also in high school).
Oops, I had to leave this because dinner was uhmmm...does smoke
alarm tell you anything. LOL! Not really but close. So now I will
try to finish my story. I started feeling better but was still
having some abdominal pains. Turned out some virus killed my
colon. So I went in for another bigger surgery and was in the
hospital for 10days. So they are not sure if that was also
related to what might have been happening to my uterus also
besides the other disease? Sorry not sure if I am making since,
medical stuff is so hard to type in a few lines. I guess the main
thing is that I am able to do lots more than what I could have done
6 years ago, I was able to give myself to everyone more and to be
the mom and teacher that my children were needing. The
hardest part has always been the guilt. Did I do the right thing? I
tried to talk to some mom's in my homeschooling group and one
pointed out that I was taking the easy and wrong way out. But I
checked with my priest and my catholic doctor, they knew
everything and said it was the proper thing to do. I felt alone and
ashamed, like I was letting down "Motherhood". Anyway that
homeschooling group broke up and I have pretty much been on my own
since then. The last few years have been very busy ones but I feel
like I turned off myself for about 5 years not thinking
about this and suddenly the last year it has been on my mind all
the time. Kind of like a delay reaction? Wow I have really gone
on here, sorry. Just very hard to put all your thoughts and that
many years into a few words for someone to understand. I look
forward to hearing from both of you wonderful ladies who have
already been such an inspiration to me.
God bless and the Peace of Christ to you both,
Jackie
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MichelleW
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Kathryn:
Well, it seems we have all gone through this surgery at about the
same point in our lives (interesting, isn't it? It makes me wonder
what percent of hysterectomies are done on women aged 35-40). And
while it seemed medically necessary at the time, we have all
wondered if there wasn't another way (although in my case, the
situation was
life-threatening, and the doctor DID try the alternative, to the
dismay of the assisting nurses!). Still. Can't help wishing it were
otherwise.
But I guess we need to keep reminding ourselves that all we can do
is what seems best at the time, with the information we have. I'm
sure you two ladies prayed before making your decisions - and if it
wasn't meant to be, then God would have brought different
information into your sphere to dissuade you from such a drastic
measure. And really, both of your stories reveal a condition that
was debilitating and taking you away from your primary
responsibilities. I understand this, because I bled incessantly
(once I bled for an entire year straight!), often hemmorhaging, had
endometriosis and polycystic ovaries and ruptured cysts, etc. as
well. It is painful. You spend a lot of time trying to relieve your
pain or regain your energy. Several times it was suggested that,
instead of these piecemeal treatments I simply have the
hysterectomy, but I couldn't justify it and didn't want to abrupt
God's plans for our family. Eventually, there was no alternative.
And I have never felt better or more energetic (once I finally
recovered from my near-death experience).
So, none of us did this hastily or for our own convenience. We need
to rest on that truth when we are tempted to look back. At least we
can have no shameful regrets, no guilt in this - imagine the women
who do this for the wrong reason and THEN wake up to the fact of the
beauty of motherhood. I know women like that. It is difficult to
console them.
We have the certainty of God's will on our side, and this should
bring us peace. As I said, when I begin to look back wistfully, I
lean on this and can go forward in peace of mind and soul.
But there can still be a bit of struggle coming to terms with our
"new selves." There is something missing, and it is something more
than a kidney or a lung - it is the very fruitfulness which was so
foundational to our identities. Yes? I think it is this that makes
openness to my husband less free than it once was.
Kathryn
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MichelleW
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| Posted: June 07 2006 at 7:22pm | IP Logged
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Michelle:
Jackie,
As I was reading your post I realized we both had very similar, if not
the same, conditions. The doctor who initially diagnosed me called it
adenomyosis, but the nurses in the hospital said it was endometriosis
that included the uterus. So Kathryn, you had that too? That is
interesting isn't it? The pain and fatigue you describe as very like
mine.
As far as the condemnation, I was on the other side of the fence. My
husband is a devout Evangelical and most of the people we know are
non-Catholic. My family is Catholic, but they do not submit to the
authority of the Church on many issues. (My mother used an IUD and
believes that abortion is ok!!) I had so many people tell me that God
could not possibly want me to endure pain. That pain could not be His
will. But I thought about the saints and how pain had been so much a
part of their lives. I knew that argument was weak to say the least.
My dear husband, having walked so closely with me through so much,
knew that I needed to make this decision with the help of my priest
and encouraged me to talk with him often.
I know I am going long, but I am trying to speak directly to the guilt
you expressed Jackie. I think in some way we have all expressed a form
of it, haven't we? Even Kathryn, who had basically no choice. What it
came down to for me, and I strongly suspect for you, was obedience.
Was I obeying God's will for my life or choosing to disobey for my own
comfort? For years I could not answer that question with a clear
conscience. In fact, even the night before my surgery I spent crying
out to the Lord and asking Him if I was choosing my will over His.
Truly, on this subject He seemed to be so silent. My priest's advice
to me in the first meeting I had with him was that only I could know
when enough was enough. He said he could clearly see that my motive
was not birth control, that I sought to honor God, and that was enough
for his permission. I didn't like his advice, nor did I take seriously
his permission.
It was when I looked at my family that my mind and heart began to
change. As mothers we are to SERVE our family. In so many ways THEY
were having to serve themselves and serve ME. I was missing out on the
ministry that God had called me to. I was missing nurturing my family.
That was my vocation. God had called me to serve my family and instead
I was lying on the couch or in my bed asking God if He was going to
give me more children to care for. I wasn't even caring for the
precious ones He had already given me! Jackie, you and I had no choice
either.
"My precious Lord, for the sake of your sorrowful passion, have mercy
on us. You know pain. You know suffering. You know fatigue. We offer
these up to you. These are offerings that were our own. They belonged
to us, and now we give them to you and let them go. In the garden of
Gethesemene you struggled to obey. Thank you for our struggle to obey.
It has brought us closer to You, may it also make us more like You.
May it also make us more loving towards those who struggle to obey,
especially our children. Amen"
And now about that guilt. It can be just as crippling as any physical
ailment. Olivia and I were just looking at this verse in the first
letter of St. John last week and I'd like to share it with you. "If we
confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins
and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 Jn 1:9. I bring this up
not, obviously, because I think any of us has sinned, but because if
YOU think you have then I encourage you to confess it. In fact, it
might be useful to go to confession so that you can hear the priest
say outloud, "Your sins are forgiven." Once confessed, and forgiven,
this part of your life is clean. Right? After that, any guilt you feel
is false guilt. Guilt that you are inventing for yourself, but that
you need not carry. After forgiveness what is there? If after
forgiveness we insist on carrying guilt that does not come from the
Holy Spirit are we not in a way glorifying ourselves? Saying, well yes
Lord, Your forgiveness of my kids' sins is enough, Your forgiveness of
my husband's or friend's sin is enough, but MY sin is so big. It is
too big for You to deal with. Your forgiveness cannot wipe ME clean. I
am bigger than You.
In the gospels Christ often links forgiveness with healing. Healing of
the body, healing of the soul. If we are forgiven, the next step is
healing. Sometimes that is the hardest step. Especially if we have
been broken for a long time.
When I was 17 I was raped. I was beaten badly and it was obvious to
others that I had no choice. But not to me. I carried that guilt with
me for years. I finally went to confession. The priest at first
insisted that I didn't need to be there, but finally he absolved me.
How liberating to hear aloud, "Your sins are forgiven!" Then each time
I felt guilt I had to learn to train myself to push it away. The most
effective way I found was to replace it with some truth, from the
Scriptures, prayers or hymns. What prayer, hymn or verse encourages
you? Make a piece of it your prayer when guilt attacks you. With
practice and the help of the Holy Spirit, I believe God will heal you
of false guilt and set you free to nurture and minister to your
family.
Enough for now. Forgive me for rambling so. I hope I have not
been offensive.
My prayers this day for each of you are that you would be encouraged
by the Holy Spirit. That you would feel His love for you and rest in
it.
Love,
Michelle
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MichelleW
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Kathryn:
Michelle, you have hit upon something so fundamental, because you have
lived through it: false guilt can cause all kinds of trouble.
You know, I recently published a book called "His Suffering and Ours,"
which speaks to these very issues of needing to be freed of our own
feelings of guilt (and forgiving others, forgiving ourselves) before we
can really get on with living. In fact, it is subtitled "-words of hope
for pierced and wounded hearts." SO MANY people struggle with these
issues! I can't tell you the response I have received from people who
need to hear exactly what you expressed about confessing and moving on!
And about not defining themselves by what has happened in their past,
etc. Maybe I can send you each a book, just as a gift - meanwhile, you
can go to the Lulu site and download a preview of chapters 4 and 5 ;-)
www.lulu.com/kathryntherese
Anyway, I don't think that these issues are our primary concern,
although it may be that suppressed guilt on some other issue could
transfer itself to this one. Like we feel we are being "punished" or
"deprived" because we deserve it. But God doesn't operate that way. God
doesn't punish. God DOES, however, invite us to share in our own
redemption and the salvation of others by sharing in His Cross. When He
bends down to kiss us with suffering, we often wince and think we are
being chastised. But He is inviting us to something profound.
I just want to quickly address something you brought up about pain,
Michelle - that while many people do not understand "redemptive
suffering" and so think that God would not WANT them to suffer, we who
understand that following Christ means suffering know that often God
DOES ask us to endure pain. But it is also reasonable to try to be
relieved of pain - God will make sure we have plenty of it anyway. He
doesn't want us to endanger ourselves or become too weak to attend to
our duties, of course. And sometimes, it isn't all that clear whether
this is something we must treat or endure. The practicalities and
exigencies that this invitation to the Cross inflicts are often where we
become confused. How LONG do we bear this cross? HOW do we carry this
cross? Is THIS the cross I must bear? What about the suffering MY cross
inflicts on OTHERS? And we are not very good at understanding our own
motives, as you pointed out - Do I want to be relieved of this for the
right reason? Or even - do I NOT want to be relieved of this for the
right reason?
In the end, we really have to be open to what God might be saying to us
through others. Your husband pointed out to you that this was affecting
your family. Your priest helped you see that it was not because you did
not want more children that you were going this route. Our own
conscience is primary, but we often spin ourselves in circles
questioning our own motives, and this is a great tool of the devil to
keep us from just getting on with it and doing what must be done. He
paralyzes us with indecision in the name of seeking certainty. But God
does not etch His will in stone (only once, on Sinai ;-) so we must
simply do what seems prudent and move on. The devil is also good at
keepin us from getting on with it and living joyfully what is left to us
by making us question the decisions of the past. Maybe we shouldn't have
done that; maybe things would be different; maybe I was acting
selfishly, etc. It doesn't matter. As I tell my kids, you can't go back
- you can only go forward. So go forward with God in peace, with joy.
I haven't answered a darn thing here. I am totally rambling.
But I think our ramblings are like brainstorming right now. We're
digging around to find our real thoughts, because we haven't thunk them
out loud yet.
I wish we were on my couch with lattes doing this...
Kathryn
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MichelleW
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Michelle:
I just ran in here to write down some thing else I was thinking and you
had responded! I would LOVE a latte right about now, thanks! (Maybe I'll
make one when we get back from errands this afternoon...)
First, I hope I didn't sound like I had it all figured out, because I
don't and I struggle with these same things...
Second, I think that it is important to make the distinction between guilt
and sadness. We need to be freed from guilt, but sadness...well, we have
every reason to feel sadness. I think that sadness (as long as it doesn't
become self-indulgent) is ok. I think it is natural to feel sad when we
have had a loss and this has certainly been a loss. Allowing ourselves to
admit and feel the loss and accompanying sadness I would think would bring
healing eventually.
Third, (and really this should have been first) the thought that brought
me running in here was that Mary the Mother of God also gave up her
"fruitfulness" for her vocation. She had one child and then surrendered
any desire for more children to God's purpose, to nurturing her Son. I am
not actually comparing us to Mary, but it made me feel that she would
certainly understand this particular kind of loss and it made me feel
comforted.
Kathryn, I very much agree with your comment about brainstorming. That is
what it feels like. In a way I also feel that I am working through some of
these things by being able to type them out. And thank you for summarizing
what I was trying to say about guilt and forgiveness much more neatly than
I was able. I so appreciate your perspective!
Love,
Michelle
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MichelleW
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Kathryn:
I don't usually have this much time at the computer, but it is a
sitting-at-the-desk kind of day for me. So I'm spouting off continuously :-)
You are right, that sadness is unavoidable, and can even be healing. At
least, if we refuse to allow ourselves to feel it, we may never heal. And
often, it comes some time after the fact. For me, I held up just fine and
was focused on getting strong enough to leave the hospital and just go home.
Once home, I was focused on holding it together for everyone, so they
wouldn't feel sorry for me or have to do more for me than necessary. About a
week after I was home, I just broke down crying. My dh was in consternation
and I simply said, "I haven't cried about this, you know, but it is huge for
me. I just need to feel this. I'm fine." He is not very good on that plane,
so he held me for a minute and then left me to my sadness. It was my own
"coming to terms" with the reality of what had happened and how I had been
irrevocably changed. You need to feel that fully, or you'll keep feeling it
in little confusing bits.
Michelle, you are so right about Mary's own sacrificing her own fruitfulness
for her vocation. She gave her fruitfulness to God by vowing to remain a
virgin, and He made her more fruitful than anyone! But this cost her much.
Her life did not go as she planned. There was great sorrow and confusion. We
should indeed turn to her. She is a good Mother and she will help us see all
this through God's eyes.
I think we should all three individually entrust the direction of this
discussion to her Maternal care. As we continue to brainstorm and get our
thoughts out of our head, she will guide them and bring us to where we need
to be.
Kathryn
Heart of Jesus, formed by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary,
have mercy on us.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Recent hysterectomy
