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Willa
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MicheleQ wrote:
| I wonder if the confusion comes from not understanding or rather not applying "responsible parenthood" in the broader sense as the Church intends? When you read Church documents about responsible parenthood there is really very little focus on the issue of regulating births and much more focus on raising children responsibly. And I can say with confidence that I certainly don't see that as an issue with you Willa. |
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Thanks Michele! and I'd never quite thought about it that way, before. I guess the Church would be cautioning against having babies unreflectively and simply taking the privilege for granted?
Thank you and Elizabeth and Bridget for the perspective on this. You have given me some things to think about. I would certainly like to study the book with you all if there is an interest.
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Willa
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LLMom
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Has anyone read This is the Faith, re-published by TAN? It has a nice chapter on marriage and includes the church's traditional teaching on periodic continence. I never was taught until recently about needing "grave reasons" to use NFP. I think many NFP teacher's are not stressing this point. I thought I might include some quotes.
"The use of the term "natural family planning" has come under sharp attack from traditional Catholic writers in recent years because it implies the right of the couple to "plan" their family; whereas the Catholic norm is to let God plan one's family and to accept the children when (and if) God gives them---as a blessing from Him on the marital union and on society. Except for the use of NFP for fertility reasons, i.e. to aid in a legitimate way in conceiving a child (as opposed, e.g., to in vitro fertilization), the planning aspect NFP would appear to reflect acceptance of the neo-pagan practice of family planning---albeit using "natural" as opposed to artificial means. Proponents of NFP, it would seem, are confusing a legitimate means during an emergency situation or for a "serious reason" with an illegitimate end in the case of no family emergency or "no serious reason", and presume then to conclude that NFP is morally acceptable as a way of life. The end or purpose of NFP---that is, planning one's family---is not acceptable in principle, being against natural law and the teachings of the church. A couple does not have the right to "plan their family", even though the means used are those of NFP and do not violate the church's proscriptions against artificial birth control. As cardinal Ottaviani, former head of the Holy Office (Sacred congregation for the Doctrine of the fAith) declared before the assembled bishops at Vatican Council II, "I am not pleased with the statement in the (draft) text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the church." This is the 2000 year tradition of the church, supported by Sacred scriptures and reitereated by the Popes in the Ordinary teaching magesterium of the church (Casti connubi, Address to midwives, Humanae Vitae). Also, it should be noted that the CCC (2nd ed) does not use the term "Natural Family Planning". Rather, it uses the term "periodic continence"..." p. 356-357 This is the Faith.
Also another good book called Husband and Wife by Fr. Paul Wickens (TAN) says that "the ideal in marriage is to trust completly in God's providence in the matter of bearing children. IN other words, to accept all of the children that God may send without reservation." p.73.
Just more things to ponder
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MicheleQ
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Lisa thanks for posting that!
What strikes me as so strange is that nowadays we end up having to defend (to others IN the Church) what has long been the tradition of the Church on these matters. Like we have to "prove" that NFP is for serious reasons rather than the burden of proof being the other way around (as it should be).
Alsa, I have no time to go into this more though as I am in the middle of crazy-busyness here preparing to give my talk to RCIA tonight (please pray for me and the hearts of all those hearing me if you think of it) AND getting ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning to fly to Nashville to drive to Memphis for the conference there friday and Sat.
Elizabeth, I can't help but remember the way we drove poor Janet Cupo crazy playing revolving speakers the last time I went to Memphis. . .6 years ago! 
Gotta go!
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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JennGM
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LLMom wrote:
| "I am not pleased with the statement in the (draft) text that married couples may determine the number of children they are to have. Never has this been heard of in the church." |
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Wow! Thanks, Lisa. Some powerful words, there!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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gwendyt
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Lisa - Thanks for the quotes and presenting these two books!
Michelle - sending prayer your way for tonight and safe travel!
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Patty
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I just discovered this thread and am jumping in late! We are the parents of seven children, ages 22 down to 6. I will be 45 this summer and dh just turned 49. Baby #7 made his appearance 8 weeks early but he's fine now. However, a few weeks after his birth I had a pain in my left thigh which kept getting worse until I could not stand on it without incredible pain...and I began running a fever. Stupidly, I wondered if I had pulled a muscle. The doctor sent me to the hosp. immediately because I had a blood clot...a huge one! I have permanent damage to my leg because of this and have a much higher risk of getting another clot with another pregnancy. Because this is potentially life-threatening, dh and I have used NFP since my cycles returned when baby #7 was about 15 months old.
Before that, our babies were spaced through pregnancy and bfing. There were a few times here and there that we used NFP, such as, once right after a miscarriage our doctor advised waiting at least two cycles to conceive, so we did.
So...I truly believe that now we have a serious reason not to conceive. I never thought we would...I never dreamed of this happening.
Would it be wrong to NOT use NFP and perhaps conceive another baby? Perhaps not...I am just not 100% certain...but it seems to me it would be imprudent. This has NOT been an easy decision. I thought the only thing that would end our baby years was my age and declining fertility (which is now happening).
Just my thoughts!
God bless,
Patty
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MicheleQ
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Patty wrote:
| Would it be wrong to NOT use NFP and perhaps conceive another baby? Perhaps not...I am just not 100% certain...but it seems to me it would be imprudent. |
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Patty,
I'm not making a judgment on your situation because I truly believe that it is a discernment issue between the couple and God. But I quoted you because you used the word imprudent and lately I have been pondering the virtue of prudence in regards to this issue quite a lot.
All that to assure you that none of this is directed at you but is rather my recent rambling thoughts on the topic of prudence in regards to these issues. 
The CCC defines prudence as "the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it... Prudence is "right reason in action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, ... It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid."
Bearing that in mind and thinking again about children in the sense of the "assets" they are and they way they contribute greatly to the material, emotional and spiritual welfare of a couple and family, it seems to me that the term prudence is being misused and/or misdirected in the way it is so often cited in regards to family limitation but rarely cited in regards to generosity and openess to life.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that those who use NFP are being imprudent (though certainly some might be but that not my business to know) but it can't be denied that imprudence generally isn't applied to the idea of family limitation, at least not in the way it is commonly applied to having a baby in difficult circumstances.
But isn't this backwards in reagrds to what we know about Church teaching?
What I mean is that so often when I am talking to someone about this issue they will say something like "yes but you have to be prudent" and I'm thinking yes but what IS the prudent choice? Is the prudent choice to suffer a privation of another child (and I concede in certain cases it certainly might be)because that truly IS what's best at the moment? Or is it more prudent to offer myself as a living sacrifice and to seek to add something so incredible to our family as another person? A person who in God's design and plan will in some way benefit us all spiritually, materially and emtionally.
Gosh I hope I'm making sense and I dearly hope I have not offended anyone. These are just my rambling thoughts of late as I find my whole thinking turned around by what to me has become an eye opening understanding of these issues.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
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LisaR
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responsible parenthood=regulating births? I think we need to be careful and remember that the Church does not call us to have as many children as are physically possible. (no matter what Fr Paul Wickens might have to say on the subject)
"Natural Family Planning" is not the best term- however- some "methods" of NFP if you will are so much more than "Periodic continence" teaching. They include extensive teaching on Theology of the Body, as well as Brestfeeding, Postpartum, and Pre Menopausal support.
IF we are truly trying to please God, by being open to life at all times- by being really "natural" ( some would say this is by being more "animal")in the sense that we do not pay attention to the signs of fertility that are present- we should ALSO be parenting in a natural,mamal like way as well- breastfeeding until about age 3 as is also Biblical. This would at least, in many cases, space children about 3 years apart.
I run into moms many times who are very vocal about "having kids as God intended" meanwhile they have 3 kids under three all with bottles in their mouths! I wish this were isolated but it does not seem to be so, at least in my experiences. I have never said anything to these moms, as it is not my place, however, I think it can be dangerous when we start to judge that one way of parenting ( having kids rapidly, no continence) is better than another (breastfeeding more extensively, periodic abstinence if need be)
If we remove Natural Family planning from the spectrum of "regulating births" there still is a Truth there in the teaching- we have a right to know how we as women are created. The Truth of our fertility is a miracle and is a gift from God. Knowing how my body worked is what led me to be open to brestfeed, for example. God could have choosen to have us stay in the dark as to how it all works! The stork brings the baby!
sorry if this is disjointed- just some random thoughts....
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LisaR
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obviously I did NOT spell check- sorry!
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Lisa
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Willa
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MicheleQ wrote:
| The CCC defines prudence as "the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it... Prudence is "right reason in action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, ... It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); |
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Michele,
I think you are saying that prudence is not a norm that you necessarily have to reach from outside, but something that comes from within the situation and the individual's or couples response to it, under God.
Let me try to find a parallel example.... when Aidan was first born quite a few people thought we should send the kids to school because we obviously needed to focus on his care and the kids would not get much home schooling done if we were so preoccupied.
Now we chose to keep them home and we had viable "prudent" reasons for our choice including our concern for their spiritual and emotional wellbeing. YET if another couple in the same situation had pondered and discerned other than we did, we definitely could not second-guess their choice OR necessarily question the validity of our own choice. There is a strong subjective element there, and properly so.
We take into account our own personal circumstances and that includes our own family's "charism" perhaps and our own strengths and weaknesses.
It might apply somewhat to this issue too. That would imply that no one from outside the marriage should rightfully judge or critique a couple that chose to welcome a new life in difficult situations..... that's it's not a matter to be judged on a scale from less serious to more serious.
That is pretty much the question that I have been pondering and it is helping me to hear it worked out.
I think that if this is true, something could very well be imprudent for one couple and prudent for another, or different month by month. For instance, I do not regret our NFP use during the first couple of years after Patrick's birth. His whole pregancy along with Aidan't concurrent severe illness was very overwhelming to me. It took some time to restabilize our family's emotions and financial status. It's only now when he's three that DH and I are more ambivalent....
An NFP teaching mom told me that NFP is considered to be a monthly opportunity to discern anew what God's will is and that's how we've played it. ... I thought it made good sense because it doesn't finalize something that essentially isn't final.
I think furthermore, Michele, you are pointing out the two sides of prudence whereas the "world" will only emphasize ONE, the worldly aspect. Even a priest sometimes, even a good orthodox priest will sometimes emphasize that aspect trying to be gentle and pastoral rather than challenging. So this was something I needed to discuss with likeminded people so I'm thankful for your thoughts on this.
Patty, I am glad you wrote because I very rarely indeed get to hear from someone who is discerning this kind of issue for themselves. Obviously you have serious reasons to use NFP; as I do. In fact you are at just the place with age and childrens' age as we will be in about 2 years : ). Our situation is different in that my life is not at stake. What we end up having to weigh is the sheer medical and human resources taken to intervene in our new child's life and also the uncertainty of his survival or health even with the intervention.
But I am realizing that though my biggest INTELLECTUAL concern is the expense and unavailability of the blood products used to treat the birth condition, my biggest EMOTIONAL concern is the sheer lack of support and understanding we would be facing locally. It's overwhelming to me, honestly, but I don't know if that's a call to prudence OR giving in to personal weakness. I am not NEARLY so emotionally worried about nurturing a sick or impaired or even dying child, if that's what God calls us to, as that's something we have dealt with and been blessed by.
Anyway, it is helpful to me to hear it discussed so honestly.
Covenanted Happiness just arrived here yesterday -- Aidan was so excited, for some reason he thought the book was for him and kept saying, "I got a book!" I'm looking forward to reading it.
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Willa
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LisaR
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how do I pull quotes from others posts here? I can't get the hang of it! Willa's comments on what an NFP mom said to her about every month a new chance to discuss and discern God's will is what I was so wordily trying to convey. We have an intellect and a free will - and we have been shown how our bodies work. It is a gift- not an evil to be able to communicate with our spouse about openness to life. It can actually strengthen the marriage to NOT have relations every time our body has the urge.
and I really hope someone will chat about how breastfeeding plays a role in shild spacing. Because I do not know why most "Provedentialists" do not recognize the relation nursing plays, and how vital it can be.
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Lisa
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Patty
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MicheleQ wrote:
Is the prudent choice to suffer a privation of another child (and I concede in certain cases it certainly might be)because that truly IS what's best at the moment? Or is it more prudent to offer myself as a living sacrifice and to seek to add something so incredible to our family as another person? A person who in God's design and plan will in some way benefit us all spiritually, materially and emtionally.
Gosh I hope I'm making sense and I dearly hope I have not offended anyone.
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Hi Michele!
No offense taken at all. I very much enjoyed reading your thoughts! Very good question...what IS prudent? It's something that we have to ask with our spouses, together on our knees before God. He WILL show us the way we are to go, of that I am certain. He knows our hearts, and knows whether we desire to please Him or not.
In our case at this present time, I honestly believe after much prayer that the "living sacrifice" we are offering is our desire for another child. I don't want to offer myself as a "sacrifice" in that I may lose my very life and leave these dear children we already have. The reason I wrote in the first place was just that I know there are others (like Willa) who are discerning the same thing, and it's nice to know you're not alone.
Dh and I have also contemplated what we would do if we were "surprised" by a little blessing. Yes, it would be scary, because I do not yet have perfect trust in God. We would have to pray, pray, pray. Gosh, wouldn't it be easier to just be non-Catholic at times like these? Well, in a word, NO. I am so grateful for the graces we receive in the sacraments; I am so thankful for the Church and the wonderful brothers and sisters in it, both "in the flesh" and here in this wonderful forum.
God bless,
Patty
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MicheleQ
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LisaR wrote:
| responsible parenthood=regulating births? |
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No but I have read things (books articles) that would seem to indicate that. Some of it is current popular stuff (sorry not naming names...been there done that- not doing it again  )
Quote:
| I think we need to be careful and remember that the Church does not call us to have as many children as are physically possible. |
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oh yes I agree.
Quote:
"Natural Family Planning" is not the best term- however- some "methods" of NFP if you will are so much more than "Periodic continence" teaching. They include extensive teaching on Theology of the Body, as well as Brestfeeding, Postpartum, and Pre Menopausal support.
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any ideas on a better term? I've tried but can't come up with one.
Quote:
| If we remove Natural Family planning from the spectrum of "regulating births" there still is a Truth there in the teaching- we have a right to know how we as women are created. The Truth of our fertility is a miracle and is a gift from God. Knowing how my body worked is what led me to be open to brestfeed, for example. God could have choosen to have us stay in the dark as to how it all works! The stork brings the baby! sorry if this is disjointed- just some random thoughts.... |
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No, it's not disjointed and really I agree with what you are saying. I don't want anyone to think I'm saying NFP isn't a good thing. In it's most broad sense (and you're right, it IS broad) there are many benefits to it.
I guess what bugs me is the things I read about how the periodic continence aspect of it is so wonderful and good for your marriage. I think it CAN be but isn't necessarily, and I also think it can hurt a marriage if practiced improperly. Beyond that I can't tell you how many people I have talked to who tell me they hate the periodic continence aspect NFP. And these are concientious God-fearing couples who DO pray and discern but they also live with the reality that many of us do that it just isn't something they find to be the great and wonderful marriage builder that some people promise. Yes it does what it's supposed to do in regards to spacing births (usually ) and we have used it when necessary but I guess what I'm trying to say is it isn't "all that"!
I was just talking to a friend about this the other day and she asked the question "why do I keep hearing how great NFP (again the periodic continence part) is and yet we're just not finding that to be the case?" Well, I think it's because as Msgr. Burke says in his book (about which I started this thread in the first place) that it's a privation -and instinctively we know it. Granted, it's a privation some of us have to suffer at times but it is still a privation.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Rachel May
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MicheleQ wrote:
| I was just talking to a friend about this the other day and she asked the question "why do I keep hearing how great NFP (again the periodic continence part) is and yet we're just not finding that to be the case?" |
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I can't remember if you've mentioned this before, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating. One thing that I have found deceptive in NFP presentations is how long continence will last. Our friends who are a CCL teaching couple keep saying that abstinence lasts fewer than 8 days. They have never admitted that it could last 8 weeks based on your signs (like mine  ).
So a little analogy, I was lead to believe from the 4 or 5 NFP classes I've taken, that periodic continence would be something like Holy Week and Easter and the Easter Season. I just had to learn to read my chart right. But for me, and many couples I know, NFP is really like living in Lent nearly perpetually. And the Church in her wisdom does not follow Lent and Easter with more Lent.
This, of course, gives us more encouragement to prayerfully discuss why we choose to use NFP at any one time, but I think the false expectations make it more of a burden.
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MicheleQ
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WJFR wrote:
| Michele, I think you are saying that prudence is not a norm that you necessarily have to reach from outside, but something that comes from within the situation and the individual's or couples response to it, under God. |
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Well yes but you said it so much better.
Quote:
We take into account our own personal circumstances and that includes our own family's "charism" perhaps and our own strengths and weaknesses.
It might apply somewhat to this issue too. That would imply that no one from outside the marriage should rightfully judge or critique a couple that chose to welcome a new life in difficult situations..... that's it's not a matter to be judged on a scale from less serious to more serious. |
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Yes! Exactly and this is where I sometimes feel a struggle personally. By most people's standards our family is rather poor. We always have been and dh and I have begun to think we always will be. So be it. But we have also felt called to be open to life in times when others would think it was really just imprudent. So when I read some of the current (Catholic) stuff that implys how irresponsible we are or that my husband is just an animalistic pig (nothing could be farther from the truth!), well, . . . I feel kind of hurt. And in a way it almost made me guilty in the same way I felt guilty about wanting to have more children when the world told me (before I knew the truth of Church teaching)that I had to be responsible. It was like I went from being given this beautiful gift of being told that the longing in my heart was a gift from God to being told that no, that longing was probably just my own selfishness and again I wasn't being "responsible".
And that's why I have so enjoyed Msgr. Burke's book. It really speaks to my heart and reaffrims what I know to be true for our family, and for that I am VERY grateful.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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MicheleQ
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Rachel May wrote:
I can't remember if you've mentioned this before, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating.
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Don't apologize, it bears repeating!
Quote:
So a little analogy, I was lead to believe from the 4 or 5 NFP classes I've taken, that periodic continence would be something like Holy Week and Easter and the Easter Season. I just had to learn to read my chart right. But for me, and many couples I know, NFP is really like living in Lent nearly perpetually. And the Church in her wisdom does not follow Lent and Easter with more Lent.
This, of course, gives us more encouragement to prayerfully discuss why we choose to use NFP at any one time, but I think the false expectations make it more of a burden. |
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Exactly! Thanks for articulating that Rachel. I'm going to share that analogy with my friend, I know she will appreciate it.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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LisaR
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Yes! Exactly and this is where I sometimes feel a struggle personally. By most people's standards our family is rather poor. We always have been and dh and I have begun to think we always will be. So be it. But we have also felt called to be open to life in times when others would think it was really just imprudent. So when I read some of the current (Catholic) stuff that implys how irresponsible we are or that my husband is just an animalistic pig (nothing could be farther from the truth!), well, . . . I feel kind of hurt. And in a way it almost made me guilty in the same way I felt guilty about wanting to have more children when the world told me (before I knew the truth of Church teaching)that I had to be responsible. It was like I went from being given this beautiful gift of being told that the longing in my heart was a gift from God to being told that no, that longing was probably just my own selfishness and again I wasn't being "responsible".
Just learning this quote thing- but I did not "get" them all!
1. with regards to the teaching of 8 days of abstaining- we have taught CCL NFP since 1997 and have NEVER said such a thing. It really varies as much as each woman's cycle- everyone is SO different- which is exactly why it is not the "rhythm-calendar" method. Good News! CCL has rewritten ALL of their teaching notes- they will be released in early fall- and they address so much about what has been discussed here.
2. an aside- in just the short years we have been teaching we have heard so many "testimonies" from couples who learned NFP to "avoid" and soon realized that they needed to "use" it to achieve! Now it stands that almost 50% of NFP takers are taking to learn about their bodies and how they can achieve pregnancy "naturally".
3. I am sorry if I used the term "animal" (or I think I also used mammal ) here or on another More the Merrier post. I have seen far too many Catholic, Homeschool marriages break up because of s*x addiction. Almost all of them were Providentialists and the wives shared in great detail the pains of feeling used. There was NO communication whatsoever with regards to intimacy. Some of these men resorted to grave immortality during a wife's bedrest, or lengthy illness. THIS is where we hear the plus side of NFP. Men who have taken a class, who have perhaps heard another man speak frankly about abstaining, may find it easier when he might have to. When I was on bedrest for 13 weeks- it was a "little Lent" for my dh- but he had our NFP teachings to fall back on for a boost- so to speak. Women have also shared with me that feeling "free" to be intimate whenver they wanted to didn't make them happy like they thought it would. They longed for their dh's to take NFP with them to learn about what their bodies went through and so it would aid in communication.
4. Open to life when it looks imprudent to the world: THAT is a tough one! I think we all can feel judged if we have more than 4 kids- but then again I have many dear friends that look as if they have that perfect family- the boy and the girl- but they suffer from secondary infertility and feel judged by many "good" Catholics- they have even been "witnessed to!".
I have even struggled with feeling like I need to explain that our kids are not spaced 3 years apart because we "planned" them that way!
5. We qualify for public aid. We have enormous amounts of student loan, housing, and car debt. we have little insurance, and absolutely NO savings, retirement, or any kind of help. Really. you can check out my prayer request under family trials- but maybe in 14 years total help from either side has amounted to about 200.00. We are still paying of dd's birth. I sell everthing not nailed down to get the next size clothes (used), school stuff(used), so on. This is actually time consuming, and I am also now working almost every evening. Now, I could say that if I got preg. again right now (but I'm still infertile due to nursing, but lets say IF) it could be an incredible opportunity for others to practice their generosity with us. (which could happen, but you'd hate to count on it- and hasn't really to a big extent in the past)
but would it be prudent? what would you do? with each of our pregnancies (which we have to work at to acheive) the stakes get higher. and frankly- I am worn out. from saying "no" to just about everything- the joy (of feeling so proud that we have gotten this far! yay! we are NOT homeless!) is just gone. and I wonder- is it responsible parenting to subject our dchildren to such agonizing daily discussions about can we get milk today- should we turn the heat down to 62? no, we can't have friends over- nothing to feed them for a snack, and so on...
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Patty
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| Posted: April 01 2006 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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Many of the couples I've heard, both in person and on audio tape, speaking of how wonderful NFP is and how the periodic continence is great for their marriage, are coming from a background of former artificial birth control use. They were doing something that was very wrong and very unhealthy in so many ways, and often it took them a while to figure out that it was ABC that was the problem. THEN...they discovered NFP and it was like springtime versus the winter they had been experiencing.
Just my observation.
God bless,
Patty
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PDyer
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| Posted: April 01 2006 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
| then again I have many dear friends that look as if they have that perfect family- the boy and the - but they suffer from secondary infertility and feel judged by many "good" Catholics- they have even been "witnessed to!". |
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We are one of those types of families. I have two children, ages 9 and 5, a boy and a . I also have an autoimmune condition which requires (at least for two years before my daughter was born -- my miracle baby -- and since then) that I take a medication that is abortifaciant, especially at the dosage at which I am taking it.  Because of the medication I take my husband and I concluded our most prudent course is to use NFP.
People apparently (and I say this based on some of the whoppers people actually say to me) are willing to make all kinds of assumptions about us based on our lifestyle and the size of our family. I find some of the comments extremely painful, but the ones that really hurt are those from people who are 'in the know' about my health that imply I am sinning by taking the medication in the first place, or that I should be doing 'something' to find another treatment that would allow me to pursue conception.
My husband and I are doing our best to follow the path the Lord has laid for us, and we're watching (and hoping!) for turns in that path. The instant my health allows me to stop the medication I will do that, God willing. Thank God the Lord was willing to bless us with our daughter when we were able to do that in the past.
I am very grateful that there were people willing to speak the truth to us about ABC, but IMO it's stepping too far to presume what is going on our marriage and in our hearts.
I hope I'm not overstepping by posting on this board. We don't meet the criteria, obviously, but this topic came up under the active topics list and I was interested. Hope I don't offend.
__________________
Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
Life at Home
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Willa
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| Posted: April 01 2006 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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Patty wrote:
| In our case at this present time, I honestly believe after much prayer that the "living sacrifice" we are offering is our desire for another child. |
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That's how I've treated my longing and will continue to do as long as we keep using periodic abstinence. Reading some of the comments on here makes me better understand the place of NFP in the Church, perhaps. I FEEL it as a deprivation, as Michele said, but it is a real grace to FEEL that way about it. It's so far from where I started, when I honestly did think childbearing was a mere biological function and even my femininity was an "accident", not part of who I am.
I can see that the awareness of NFP offers us a choice and a discerning process. God always seems to prefer us to be more aware of how we are using our gifts, rather than less aware. I've noticed it's a pattern with him -- He gives us very powerful things that have a potential to be misused -- our s*xuality, for instance -- but He wants us to use them in a supernatural light, not just a natural one.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: More excerpts from "Covenanted Happiness"
