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Lisbet
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| Posted: Aug 03 2010 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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Betsy wrote:
My biggest frustration with the discussion of this topic is that it truly is a personal decision between Husband, Wife and God. Each family will be different. Sometimes I think people WANT more rules than the Church gives us
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That's interesting, b/c I totally agree, but with a different angle.
I do not intend to start a debate at all, we've been down this road already. But, I see a lot of NFP promoting (NOT here!) that alludes to the idea that a couple NOT using charts, thermometers, fertility signals, etc... to space babies is somehow not practicing responsible parenthood! There is no way for anyone on the outside to know what goes on in a marriage. What may not be 'valid' reasons for one couple, another may have discerned those same reasons a matter of life or death. My husband and I have been flat out called irresponsible (by good, reputable, NFP promoting Catholics) for the number and spacing of our children. That has always perplexed us, how would anyone else know what God is calling US to? I can share my experience, give my encouragement, but I have no idea what God is asking of anyone else.
This is where the words of JPII ring so true: "Families - Become who YOU are!"
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JodieLyn
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Yes definately for the individual family to discern.
But sometimes hearing what others consider can help you focus nebulous feelings and thoughts.. both to take to prayer for a yay or nay on using NFP or to be able to solve a problem so that it's becomes a non-issue.
For instance with the van.. We hit that point as well as far as the.. had to get a larger vehicle. I know many people can get away with two vehicles for a time.. but because of the spacing of our kids and my dh's job. If we didn't get a larger vehicle I would not be able to go anywhere unless my dh was home and there could be 2-4 weeks at any given time that he might be gone.. for that entire time.
As it was.. we still had a payment on the mini-van (upside down.. we owed more than it was worth) when I got pregnant.. and we started a search for a van. We had to go with a loan and we found a 15 pass. van.. very good condition for a low enough price that not only did our monthly payments not go up.. but we were right side up on the loan having a vehicle that was worth what we owed on it. Yes it extended how long we had that loan having to start over. But it was completely doable because of finding the great deal.
But without knowing that such a deal might be possible to find.. someone else in that same type of situation might think.. there's no way to get out of the current vehicle because of the loan being upside down.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Betsy
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| Posted: Aug 03 2010 at 3:45pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
Betsy wrote:
| My biggest frustration with the discussion of this topic is that it truly is a personal decision between Husband, Wife and God. Each family will be different. |
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This has been stated several times in this thread, and, Stef, the OP, asked the question in a very good way that fosters a respectful conversation about it:
StefA wrote:
So, if y'all don't mind sharing, what are some of the main things you and your DHs consider when growing your family? ..........Just looking for some thoughts and advice.  |
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Not everyone has a spiritual director, or a priest who will guide according to Church teaching about this. Not everyone has friends with whom to discuss. It can all be overwhelming when searching for how this applies in YOUR family. So, Stef is looking for considerations in the discernment process for her and her husband, which is certainly within the boundaries of this board, taking into consideration Prudential Decisions.
We aren't here to "debate" but to offer our own considerations during the discernment process. We can ask practical questions seeking brainstorming about prudential matters and expect to receive practical help. This is not a topic that everyone will feel comfortable joining - and this is fine. We all work within our individual sensitivity levels when posting.
This kind of discernment is done before God through on-your-knees-brainstorming with your husband. So, understanding that Stef will take this to her husband, prayerfully brainstorm this together seeking God's will for their family, we can offer some practical helps and questions that might be considered.
I have some examples of questions I/we might prayerfully consider with Stef's van example.....back later, time permitting! |
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Sorry for seeming controversial. I didn't mean it in that way at all. I have deleted my post.
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SuzanneG
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I always look at our concern/worry/anxiety as a prompting from the Holy Spirit to really examine what our root-concerns or perhaps even what our root-sins are. Are we being asked to stretch and grow? How (or even if) are we being asked to use this concern to grow in virtue, and deal with them.
My husband and I try to look at our concern/worry as a time for some Down-on-your-knees-brainstorming. When we/he/I feel like we're not ready for another baby, we try very hard not to be RULED by our FEELINGS, but we don't ignore or discount them either. It's a hint to dig deeper for us.
StefA wrote:
| Right now, we don't have any more room in our car, so we would need a van if we became pregnant again. I fully believe God provides, as He has provided for us so far, but we struggle financially, so I've been thinking about the concept of "responsible parenthood" with regards to that. |
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So, I'm using your van-concern just as an example of how this may lead my dh and I to talk and problem-solve.......which leads to discernment, communication and prayer for us. However our prayers are answered, hopefully we can have peace knowing that we made the effort and yes, God is in-control and He is steering, but we are responsible for "peddling the bike." (We went through the van-thing about 2.5 years ago too.
*****************************************************
Monetary Concerns
Is our concern about a vehicle calling us to.....
:: Re-evaluate how we spend our money, so that we can save for a van?
:: Be frugal in new ways?
:: Budget more faithfully?
:: Detach from our previously conceived monetary plans, no matter how well-thought-out and prudent, in order change, adjust and adapt for our family?
:: Downsize in our apartment/home/lifestyle, giving up some nicer things that we're used to?
:: Humble ourselves and ask for financial help?
:: Take a loan out even if we are opposed to debt?
:: Detach from the idea that a car is a "waste of money" or "we drive a car into the ground before we buy a new one!"
:: Be wise stewards of the money we really do have, give up our frugal tendencies, and spend money on a new vehicle?
:: Detach from a certain type/style/look of a car?
:: Be more creative with the car-seat-situation?
:: Give up our free time and put it into hunting for the "perfect vehicle."
Logistics
Is our concern about a vehicle calling us to.....
:: Detach from busyness/activities for awhile? Maybe God is calling us to a quieter home life, focusing on each other rather than using a vehicle on a regular basis.
:: To examine some behavior issues of our children.....focusing on them at home, rather than going places?
:: Are we being asked to detach from the convenience and fun of having everyone in one car? (some families have two small cars, rather than 1 big van and when they go places all together, they just aren't all in 1 vehicle)
:: If we are close to having a teen, are we being overly dependent on ourselves, rather than counting on our teen-driver to contribute more significantly to the family by becoming a more frequent driver, thus eliminating the need for everyone to go everywhere all the time?
:: Overcome our prideful tendencies and ask for help in transporting kids to their activities?
:: Is it getting us ready for that next stage of raising a larger family where we need to give up some control, ask for help from others and trust...even if things aren't done perfectly?
:: Stretch ourselves in being creative with how we run errands that wouldn't require a large vehicle for everyone? Am I making good use of internet-shopping, deliveries, neighbors and people offering to help?
Masking other things
:: Is worry over transportation masking a larger, more serious issue? Marital conflict? Extended family issues? Behavior problems with children? Health issues? Healing from the past? Parenting concerns?
:: Do we need to be honest and deal with these and stop using transportation as an excuse?
Husband
:: Is my dh's job stress so overwhelming that he cannot fathom thinking about ways to deal with the van-concern? (Van-concern masking a larger issue)
:: How can I better support him?
:: How can we confide in each other better?
:: Do I need to pray for him more?
:: Do we need to work on certain aspects of our marriage?
:: Am I considering the stress he feels in his need to provide for his offspring and wife? Are my actions and words considering this?
:: How can I be patient while waiting for God's timing?
:: Is the way I (wife) talk about being open to a baby with my dh causing him to clam up, get stressed even more? Am I taking his POV into consideration when discussing or just bombarding him with my feelings/concerns.
:: Are we truly confiding in each other and being honest?
:: Do I need to rely on him more? less? Does he need to rely on me more? less?
:: Are we truly considering that the challenges we face together are what will lead us to heaven?
I just love that when we are "faithful in little things".....it leads us to be faithful in the larger ones in due time. I love how the seemingly insignificant concern over transportation can help lead us to follow God's will for our own families!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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12stars
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| Posted: Aug 03 2010 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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Thank you all for this, great thread.
I know feelings can be quickly hurt or things can become a bit 
Ultimately it is up to the couple and God.
I know it is for us having special needs children, we have had to really discern our use of NFP.
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Claudia in Southern California
Wife to George,
Mom to DD 14, DD 10, DD 7, DS 4, DS 2, 1 in heaven, and now due 5/11.
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StefA
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Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I really appreciate your input. Suzanne, THANK YOU for that extensive post. I have a feeling it will be very helpful in our discernment process as far as knowing the kinds of questions to ask/things to consider.
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~Stef, wife to Tsion, mother to Keegan (2-15-07) and Gianna (10-01-09), stepmother to Jayden (5-3-01)~
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Christine
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We leave our family size in God's hands. I miscarried in February and still have not conceived. Thus, I am having to accept that leaving family size in God's hands goes both ways.
Our pastor recently recommended two books to his parishioners that might help others, Covenanted Happiness by Msgr. Cormac Burke (Michele Quigley discussed this book on 4Real a year or two ago) and Three to Get Married by Archbishop Fulton Sheen (Ellie already mentioned it in relation to these posts). According to my pastor, the first title discusses the proper use of NFP within marriage. May God bless our families!
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JennGM
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Christine wrote:
| Our pastor recently recommended two books to his parishioners that might help others, Covenanted Happiness by Msgr. Cormac Burke (Michele Quigley discussed this book on 4Real a year or two ago) and Three to Get Married by Archbishop Fulton Sheen (Ellie already mentioned it in relation to these posts). According to my pastor, the first title discusses the proper use of NFP within marriage. May God bless our families! |
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Both those books are so fabulous! I second, third and fourth the recommendations! 
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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amyable
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| Posted: Aug 04 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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I think you can find the text of both these books here:
Covenanted Happiness
and
Three to Get Married
(is this the full text?)
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mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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StefA
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THANK YOU!!! 
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~Stef, wife to Tsion, mother to Keegan (2-15-07) and Gianna (10-01-09), stepmother to Jayden (5-3-01)~
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Pilgrim
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I agree totally with the others Covenanted Happines is an AWESOME book. The section that talks about family planning has really given an awesome light to the Church's beautifult eachings on the blessing of children.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Can we talk determining family size?
