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knowloveserve
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| Posted: May 17 2010 at 10:37am | IP Logged
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So many of us long for wide, open space... acreage to roam... good, hard working values to bestow upon our children. Homesteading. So many of us feel pulled to a slower, rural lifestyle and I am no exception.
But my husband and I are rethinking this...
To have a house in the city doesn't seem all that bad anymore. It would be a sacrifice, having a small yard, and being painfully close to the neighbors. Crime is more prevalent.
But to be within walking distance to our wonderful church! Daily Mass! Dh could ride his bike to work! Walking distance to the library, downtown area, parks, the ferry... so much. Think of all the gas money we'd save!
If we lived out in the boonies, we'd be much less likely to participate in the many activities and apostolates of the vibrant parish life. Commuting to work, town, church, would cost money. Land is expensive out here.
We love the idea of *if* we ever did become full-time urbanites, we'd want to buy a piece of wild, raw land somewhere a few hours from here to escape to, maybe build a small cabin off the grid... who knows. But it might help settle those feelings of wanting land while living in the city.
What I want to know is if any of you struggle with these same pulls: urban vs. rural. And who actively chooses urban? Tell me more of the benefits! I feel like when I think about it seriously, I have to mourn the death of the rural dream just a little bit, and I try hard to remind myself of how wonderful it would be to live so close to the church...
Thoughts?
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 17 2010 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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oh definately, so much easier to live in town for sports (lacrosse and swimming) and scouts and church things and dh is a volunteer firefighter.
But we live in a small out of the way town.. there's not really any trade off on the crime. And we're not living on a high speed road but a little dead end in town road that all the neighbors know is loaded with kids so most don't even do the 25mph of the legal limit (I don't on the roads coming in)
Of course we still don't live in walking distance of the church and being small the one daily Mass is much too early for me to be able to manage to get my crew there.
We have a largish lot, good neighbor's, a backyard garden. A field directly behind the house so we feel less blocked in than typical.
But oh.. we've always talked about the living on 10+ acres away from things..
The first time we went up and saw one of the away from town fire stations (forest service).. no electricity (except for generator) a bunk room upstairs and a living room, kitchen, bath downstairs.. and I told my dh I'd take two. He laughed and laughed.. because he knew I was perfectly serious, no electric and all.
So.. we go camping and hiking and living in a small town out away from everything we can be in lovely areas for those in under 30 minutes.
And for this time we've chosen to stay in town.. though we both sigh over the "homesteads" out there.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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dakotamidnight
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We live in a fairly large city, and while I do like the idea of rural living I love living in the city.
The city benefits:
Your choice of Mass - there are 6 churches with daily Mass within a 20 minute drive of me. I can catch a noon Mass on school days at three of them.
The City Bus - this is a HUGE reason we live where we do. I don't drive, we don't even own a car - everything is either walk or bus. I can go anywhere in town on the bus.
Thrift shops all across town, many of which have kids books super cheap! I also buy all of my daughter's clothing from them at just $1 an item at most.
Easy access to medical care. We used to live very rural when I was a kid, and just going to the doctor for anything was a long trip.
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JaysFamily
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Yes, we struggle with the same issues. Well, we live in a suburban city (if that makes any sense), but the end result is about the same. I still have to drive to the library, grocery store, and DH has to drive to work, but not very far. We don't spend much on gas as long as I'm not visiting family that's 30 minutes away too often. If gas were to sky rocket, we could bike or walk to church, bike to the library, bike to the grocery store, and DH could bike to work. Our only hesitation in doing that so far is that not all of the roads are safe to walk or bike, though city officials are slowly changing that.We must stay within biking distance of our parish. It is truly our HOME. We've met so many families there that truly humble us with their faith. Our priest is amazing. It's easier to volunteer for things when Church is 5 minutes away. We could potentially get the best of both worlds if we were to move in a few years since there are affordable properties with land in our area, but God would have to make everything fall into place for that to happen.
Right now, we have such a low mortgage payment, that we could achieve financial freedom in this house. It's small with an inefficient floor plan and small storage spaces. We have a small yard, and no available gardening spaces, but if we stay here, we could tithe a LOT more in the future than if we were to buy land, even after adding in the costs of buying organic foods at stores. The lack of storage spaces has forced us to let go of some things we were hoarding. Not having land is making me appreciate nature trails in a special way. I ignored those blessings when I was growing up on 2 acres in a neighborhood that was between farmland and a wildlife refuge. In a way, living here has forced me to open my heart to how God is molding me, because I'm sacrificing the spaces and abundance of natural things that make me feel at peace.
There are other downsides, such as being near a nuclear power plant, and other potentially dangerous targets. For that reason, we wouldn't mind moving at least 15 miles away into the country to have land, chickens, maybe goats, etc. At any rate, home repairs and finances won't allow us to move anywhere for at least another 3 years, so for now, we're staying here. I suppose if finances allow for us to move, then we'll discern where God wants us to be, and will just go with the flow.
Sorry for rambling, but those are my thoughts on our situation and discernment of staying where we are, or moving out into the country.
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Jaysfamily
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florasita
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I think we make life good for us no matter where we are that is what it comes down too . However both dh & I are not city people we grew up in rural areas , towns etc. We long for it and both feel we just got stuck here 
that being said we bring the rural life here to us in the city . We are working on getting chickens and even think we will go so far as to get a miniture dairy goat . we hang our wash , have fire pit , garden , can pickles all that stuff just on smaller scale .
However our goal is to get out of here ultimately . I know we need to return to the bush / country that is our ultimate goal . if we do not have access to daily mass we are comfortable with God with us under the birch trees Some northern communities may only have monthly mass they are not any less closer to Jesus then those who can attend daily mass 
I love our house , yard local stores shops .My sil is two blocks away & being dh sister she of course homeschools , is getting chickens too etc. she is a composting expert and gets paid to help people garden !
However I can't stand the crime and it is way way worse ! we have had drunks wake us up two nights in a row now .It is a given as soon as the weather is nice all the partying stumbles out of doors . why people feel the need to yell at thier so called friends when they are all within 6 ft of each other ! and right under our child's window ! I want ds9 to have the cool breeze at night yet then he gets woken up by these crazies .
It is bad in the country too a 20yo bio father just killed his 1 month dd in a country town . good & bad exist everywhere . yet for the first time in my life I was afraid for us when we had a crack/ meth user living 3 homes away . very unpredictable & scary . All that said again I think it is what we make of it .
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 17 2010 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
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yes, certainly make the best of wherever you happen to be.. but sometimes it's an odd thing to say we're chosing to stay in town vs choosing to live further apart from people with more land.
And when you're pulled in different directions for making that decision.. it's difficult.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Angie Mc
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Ellie, we have lived in several states and settings - urban, suburban, rural, remote. I no longer pine for a rural life. Gradually that dream died a natural death. Really. In fact, my pendulum has swung the other way, now. I've been quoted as saying "I will never live further than 30 miles from a Major League Baseball field  . Currently we live in a 15yo "neighborhood" built within a small town, near two large cities - Mesa and Phoenix. I don't have walking access (which I had at one time and loved) but I do have quick access to all worlds - 10 minutes across our small town and a one mile drive to a major highway. For me, it's all about quick access now.
When we moved here 6 years ago, this location was smack in the middle of my dh's rural work location and Phoenix. When he began working in Phoenix 3 years ago, we seriously considered going urban, but ended up staying put for a variety of reasons.
Have fun as you look into the urban option. Who knows...it might be the best fit for your family!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mimip
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Urbanite all the way here. We live in the heart of Miami, literally!
I struggle with the traffic and with the space issues but oh my we have over 30 Catholic churches within 50 miles so you have so many great choices.
I have to run to Ballet but I would love to discuss this, be back later.
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Mimi
Wife of 16 years to Tom, Mom of DD'00, DD'02, '04(in heaven) DS'05, DS'08 and DS '12
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knowloveserve
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maybe suburbia... hmmm, who knows.
Thank you for the thoughts.
One of my concerns with urban living is that this is a transient community, being a military city. The neighbors you know and love one day may just move out to be the slurring drunks the next.
If it was a choice between small town or very small city living vs. country, seems like the choice would be easy. I could handle city living if the city was lovely or even "okay".
But this city is big, and relatively scummy in many ways. People who move to this county don't look to this city as the good living option... they all choose neighboring cities 10 minutes up or down the freeway.
The big draw is just the church. It's such an active parish. Scouts, yes. And dh's work... right on the base.
Maybe, I should hang up the idea of living within walking distance to church and start looking at the neighborhoods that seem more stable and the yards are a bit more spacious... on the outskirts of the city. Not rural by a long shot, but close enough... and at least you won't be able to stick your arm out your bathroom window to ask your neighbor for some toilet paper to borrow.
All this aside, I agree that it is largely what you make of it. The CFRs in NY are in the heart of the city... they are able to sanctify their home.
We must bloom where we are planted...
Still it's hard not to dream...
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Ellie
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guitarnan
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We've done the rural thing (in two countries, yet!) and I know for sure I'm a city girl at heart. My ideal retirement place is a little townhouse in a historic town (Annapolis?) where I can take walks, be very near a nice church, shop at a military commissary (okay, now we're striking many cities off the list) and be relatively close to dh's work. The commute he has now is killing him.
I loved, truly, the time we had in the mountains - the natural beauty eased my heart during the most stressful times. But driving an hour to shop at a large grocery store was stressful. Having our parish be far away was awful, especially during icy wintertime. And I learned that I need a hospital nearby for my own peace of mind. We were fortunate, but friends and fellow parishioners weren't, and the distances between homes, volunteer rescue squads, and hospitals literally cost lives while we were there. I don't think I could live like that forever, particularly if any of our parents move here to be closer to us.
There's no perfect place, of course, but it is definitely nice to dream!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4 lads mom
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We have lived in a big city, and in the suburbs....and now we live in a tiny town that is perfect if you need another tattoo, a muffler for your car, or a cold beer to drink....it is really Radiator Springs, minus the charm. I have to drive at least 30 mins for civilization....and a Target....and really good healthcare is 3 hours away....my sweet husband and I have decided that if we have a say.....our next place will be in a big city, where we are within a few minute drive to a great Mass, (sorely lacking around here), or even better, where we can walk to a great Mass. We have realized that having kids with special needs, and intense medical issues, and food allergies is much, much easier when you are closer to the city, where you aren’t driving much of your life to just get the essentials. I have dreamed of living waaaay out there, in the sticks....I think what someone said about having a cabin out out of the city, but still being in the city, sounds about perfect to me.
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ekbell
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I went from country living to city moving when we last moved.
I like the city and neighbourhood we live in now, 15min walk from our parish church or the local library branch.
The city is large (great zoo, parks, museums) but our neighbourhood is small and friendly.
It's working class in the best sense of the word - a place where children play road hockey on our tiny avenue and the neighbours will stop and return your toddler before you realize that he's figured out how to open the gate (almost had a heart attack!).
I do miss the country but the country I miss is the country half a continent away. I miss rock cuts along road sides and Holsteins, maple trees and Trilliums. It's actually easier living in the city.
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anitamarie
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I'm either or. Either full country or full city. Unfortunately, right now, we live in suburbia. The worst of both worlds, imho. We do have a great house and yard for homeschooling and a safe neighborhood, but it lacks.
We lack the full space, "wanderability" and privacy of rural and have none of the great benefits you mentioned of urban living.
We used to live in a "city" neighborhood. But, it's a suburb of a larger city, so it was a safer city environment than the larger city of which it is a satellite. I miss it so much. We walked everywhere. After a while, a five mile drive seemed like an eternity to me. I still daydream about moving back there.
If you can do it, do it.
God Bless,
Anita
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Becky Parker
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Well, I guess I'm a country gal as long as the country isn't too far from town! I grew up in the city and I enjoy raising my children in a place where they can leave their bikes out at night and they will still be there the next morning. I have to admit though, that my growing up experience was probably a bit more rough than most. Where we lived, you locked the door when you left your house, and when you got home you locked the door behind you. We had cars stolen, bikes stolen, lawn mowers stolen etc. My brothers were robbed on their paper routes, so we got a big dog and they took the dog with them. We also had a very small back yard to play in that was enclosed in a wooden privacy fence, with locks on the gates. That sort of thing. I enjoy where we live now because we don't have those worries.
My mom is very different. The first time she came here her comment was "How can you feel secure here? You're miles from anything!" When really, town is just 5 miles away! Granted, it's a small town, but there is a police dept. and a fire dept.! And, I have three big grocery stores to choose from! She's always sending me clothes since we "live so far away from a decent mall" .
Now, I have to admit, I do wish we could walk to the library, to the grocery, or to church. At one time the house across the street from our church was for sale and I really wanted my DH to consider buying it. The driving into town for everything does get old. But I guess there's good and bad in either situation.
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SusanJ
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We are very consciously and enthusiastically committed to urban living. Our reasons are numerous and varied and have developed over many years and I could really write a book about it. Dh and I are thinking of writing a book about it, actually.
Some of the benefits you already know but I'll mention again. We live within one mile of 10 Catholic parishes. It takes us seven minutes to walk to the one we go to. We live one block from the grocery store. There are several other independent food sources (bakery, ice cream factory, poultry market, sausage factory, etc.) within a few minute's walk. Last time I needed clothes for the kids I walked a few blocks to the store. We don't have much of a yard but a pedestrian lifestyle really makes up for a lot of that.
Urban living can arguably be seen as more environmentally friendly. Urbanites use resources more efficiently. Suburban and rural sprawl require miles and miles of roads that are very destructive to eco-systems.
High population density can feel crowded but only at first. You soon get to know your neighbors and the shop people and it feels like a small town. On my block (where we have lived less than a year) we know many neighbors, they stop to chat, they drop off food on holidays, they loan us tools, they tell us where to shop, and we all help keep the hooligan 12yo boys in line ;) The flipside of that population density is that it is much, much easier to find like-minded people. There are just SO MANY more people to choose from. In my last urban neighborhood we had three food co-ops within walking distance. We had a homeschooling group that consisted of six families withing walking distance who ALL home schooled, home birthed, and were into Weston Price nutrition. Population density also allows for the kinds of cultural events that make a city great.
Crime can be a myth. Do careful research on this. I live in Newark, NJ which a few years ago was "The Most Dangerous City in America." We had our first murder-free month in 44 years last month. Sounds bad, right? But our neighborhood which is physically separated from the city by train tracks on all sides has a much different crime rate. Dh recently compared the crime statistics for our zipcode to the crimes statistics of a nearby small town which often wins "Livable Community" awards. The per capita crime rate was better for our neighborhood. Lots of people out all the time makes a place much safer. Do research before making any assumptions about crime.
Living in the city you only need one car and, depending on the city, real estate can be much cheaper. I would caution against the "few acres just on the edge of town" idea. I know you didn't exactly say that but everyone wants that: the best of both worlds. Sometimes a small town can offer some of that. But usually the result of that kind of development is the death of the city and the country.
Good cities are a natural phenomenon. I know you often see precious little "nature" in some cities but people tend towards living communally and, left to themselves, cities tend to develop to the greater flourishing of its inhabitants. Most of the really bad cities you see nowadays are suffering from the fallout of cataclysmic government intervention and "urban renewal."
An excellent, excellent, and very readable book on cities is The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs. It is one of the top five books I have ever read. I highly recommend it as a way to think about what cities can and should be--and in many cases really are. Reading that book will help you look critically at the urban neighborhoods you explore.
Please feel free to be in touch if you have more questions. Dh and I have spent years with this topic. And I am not condemning anyone else's life choices with this post. The original poster asked for the benefits of urban living. This has historically been a touchy subject but I do not mean to attack anyone
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JodieLyn
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Good post Susan.
Crime stats are funny things.
Murder is listed as murder whether it was a domestic dispute or a sociopath.. obviously the one is much less danger to the general population than the other.
One thing I think your post highlights.. COMMUNITY.. whether it's neighbors seperated by miles or inches.. community will make a huge difference in how you live whereever you live.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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knowloveserve
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Susan, thank you for the food for thought. I'm putting that book on hold at the library.
Interesting thoughts...
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Ellie
The Bleeding Pelican
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guitarnan
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Oh, Susan, I wish you would write that book! I dream of chucking all the driving I do in favor of being able to walk everywhere. I used to be able to bike to my library as a child and I miss that freedom to get books without making an expedition out of it...
Come to think of it, we could walk to church, too. (Not grocery shopping, though.)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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knowloveserve
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Just wanted to say that I am only through the Introduction and first chapter of that book Susan mentioned but it is excellent!
Very surprising... I love books that challenge the way I think.
I highly recommend it as well!
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Ellie
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LeeAnn
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This is something I've thought about a lot too. We have lived in small town/suburbia for the past six years and there are times I really dislike it and have wished to live instead in either extreme...far off country living or close-in urban life. Where we live is actually a small town that suburbia has encroached upon...there aren't enough services and shops in town to really be liveable and the parish churches here are few and far between. Ours is on a country highway and few could walk there!
The advantage of urban living would be a much shorter commute for DH, reduced use of car and all those things listed above. Also, the city can be a great mission field...so many opportunities to serve the poor right at your doorstep. The disadvantage to me is so many more *distractions* from all sides...more noise of all kind, more opportunities for everything makes it hard for me to focus on what matters...the spiritual life, being together as a family and so on.
On the other hand, country living is really not an option for us right now. And I don't yet have the skills to make such a life enjoyable and productive. Maybe someday! Actually, for us, moving anywhere is not an option right now in this economic environment.
So my compromise right now is to stay where we are, here in suburbia, and try some urban homesteading. Some day, when DH is older and the commute is more tiresome, we may move closer in just to make it easier on him, but hopefully it will be to a place where we can still garden and maybe have chickens...something we are just getting started on here in suburbia. Housing is very expensive in the city, even the apartments, so that is another drawback. Seattle/Bellevue are newer cities and we don't have many neighborhoods with townhomes like older cities do. It is either condo, apartment or detached home for most and all very $$$. Fun to think about though!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: willfully urban
