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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 9:04am | IP Logged
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So true, Susan. Dressing well is about respect for oneself AND for others (or, it should be, rightly ordered). I don't think it is an accident that the culture of death has also coincided in a culture of dumpiness.
I really don't think I pay that much attention to what individuals are wearing, but it saddens me to see the big picture trend. The trend in this fashion also makes it difficult for those with limited means to break it. When the majority of people are dressing a certain way, the majority of the industry is dedicated to filling that demand. One is forced to look to more specialized (and therefore, more $$$) sources.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Paula in MN
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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SusanJ wrote:
I don't mean to personally condemn the clothing choices of anyone here but it makes me sad to go to Mass and see people (on Sunday!) in athletic clothes.
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Whenever we drive by the new-age church in a nearby town, my husband says, "there's the sweatpants church."
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 Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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SusanJ wrote:
| Dh is a professor and his students show up to class in pajamas and sweats. |
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The pajama thing is killing me! I see them at the grocery store, the mall, the post office --everywhere. WHY? Is comfort everything? Should it be? Are we losing our sense of dignity all in the name of being "happy"?
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Michele Quigley
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guitarnan
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 9:44am | IP Logged
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I was UNhappy to see all the people in jeans on Holy Thursday. (Dh was one, but that was because he came straight from work and forgot church clothes...and didn't tell me to bring some...)
And we won't talk about some of the Easter get-ups...
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SusanJ
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 9:48am | IP Logged
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Our church used a lot of ushers to help light all the candles and uncover our zillion statues and icons at the Vigil. There is one family with four grown sons who generally does all of that kind of thing but when we arrived they snagged dh to help them. We're new here and don't know this family at all. We realized afterwards that he'd been asked because he was the only person at the Mass (other than the five ushers) wearing a suit.
I also really try to look pulled together as part of my "large family witness." My family isn't that large yet but the comments are already starting. That said, I think a big smile is a more important witness than how nice or stylish your clothes are.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: April 08 2010 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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I was just thinking about how "the fall of fashion" is such a slippery slope/wishy-washy issue. What makes something feminine? What makes something modest? It isn't easy to point to things and say what has crossed the line. I do find skirts only to be an easily defined line for myself, and it saves me brain power. It is easier to go a few steps further than I might *have* to in order to comfortably drive in my stake. While wearing skirts only is its own sort of sacrifice, it would be a sacrifice at this point to give up the simplicity that the limitation affords.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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DianneF
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I'm so happy to see this topic here. I've been going back and forth about switching to skirts for quite awhile. I am most comfortable in them and at first that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to switch over to just skirts, but now it is starting to turn more into being more modest and feminine. I must say that the times that I have worn a skirt, my DH has commented on how nice I look. I haven't ever asked him how he thought about it and I don't know if he would really understand why I would want to switch to wearing only skirts. Right now, I've been buying skirts here and there at the Goodwill. I like wearing them with a simple t-shirt top with a cami underneath. Shoes are my biggest problem. Now that the weather is warming up, I hate to admit that I wear flip-flops all of the time. Except to church, of course. I do have some black flats that I wear, but winter really caused me some problems. I'm also looking at some neat sewing patterns for skirts. The fabrics that are out now are so beautiful! I would love to have some skirts made from them. :-)
Dianne
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JodieLyn
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oh Dianne, look for them.. there's tons of posts on what shoes to wear with skirts, winter or summer. Suzanne posted a link to last year's thread on winter boots.. but there's more.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Nina Murphy
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Okay, y'all....how about this? My HUSBAND has been the clincher for me. I have felt the pull to do both skirt-only and veiling at Mass and have done so for periods.
Head-covering: My husband just can not stop smiling whenever I have the veil on at Mass....it makes him giggle for some reason (he thinks I look stupid---lol  ).....and my kids would always comment on how it didn't "fit" me (even though it is a Latin Mass and many women have them on). Okay, thanks!
Anyway, it became more of a distraction, not a lifting to and concentrating on God.
Skirts-only: My husband finally confided in me that the "modest, feminine" (i.e. I guess I look frumpy, unattractive?) dress I was adopting was not preferable to him. He says I am beautiful no matter what and supports how I look (unless I'm being immodest) but to find out he preferred that I blend in more with the culture, wear more practical, comfortable clothes, and just relax about it was eye-opening. He is a very conservative man!
I realized that the reasons I was doing it were probably misguided, that it wasn't really ME. I usually go back to that when I feel "fat" and can't fit into anything (like when I'm pregnant) and----so, alas, that is not really virtuous. Because I am tall and a large build, I don't like drawing attention to myself.....and with the clothing.... I think the more material is awkward on me! I definitely can get that I-don't-care- sloppy attitude which does not reflect well back on my family, kwim?
Anyone know what I mean or share in my experience?
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~~Nina
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SusanJ
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Oh, I definitely know what you mean, Nina. My husband likes me in skirts but he definitely doesn't think I should wear them all the time--though he appreciates and supports my reasons for mostly doing so.
I would like to veil but I have never been in a parish where it is the norm and I do not feel a conviction in prayer to veil. My dh doesn't want me drawing attention to myself in this way and wouldn't be comfortable with me veiling, either. He's pretty conservative, like your husband, but there is a lot to be said for respecting the culture.
Dh was teasing me the other day because I was wearing a head scarf while painting (it was the only thing to keep my hair back). He mentioned that St. Thomas Aquinas said that women need not cover their heads if they live in a culture where that is not the custom (St. Thomas also added that this would be a depraved culture, but . . .). Incidentally, I think St. Thomas also thought that women should wear makeup if that is the cultural norm--I wonder what 13th century makeup was like!
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Nina Murphy
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SusanJ wrote:
Oh, I definitely know what you mean, Nina. My husband likes me in skirts but he definitely doesn't think I should wear them all the time--though he appreciates and supports my reasons for mostly doing so.
I would like to veil but I have never been in a parish where it is the norm and I do not feel a conviction in prayer to veil. My dh doesn't want me drawing attention to myself in this way and wouldn't be comfortable with me veiling, either. He's pretty conservative, like your husband, but there is a lot to be said for respecting the culture.
Dh was teasing me the other day because I was wearing a head scarf while painting (it was the only thing to keep my hair back). He mentioned that St. Thomas Aquinas said that women need not cover their heads if they live in a culture where that is not the custom (St. Thomas also added that this would be a depraved culture, but . . .). Incidentally, I think St. Thomas also thought that women should wear makeup if that is the cultural norm--I wonder what 13th century makeup was like!
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You're *kidding* me! I learn more about St. Thomas Aquinas every day!!!! 
It is true....we are supposed to draaaaaw people to us, to our faith, to our love of God, not seem negligent, or make dumpy and dowdy an identifying feature for a woman of God, or insistent on being plain for the sake of plain (and then make others self-conscious for not following our standards). Ouch.
St. Thomas: Pursue the true, the good, the beautiful..... Beauty is God, after all.
But the challenge is, the crux is, as Thomas reminds us, that it is all in the moderation, the virtue lies in the mean between the two extremes.....
Vanity is a slippery slope---for men, as well as for women !
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~~Nina
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DominaCaeli
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Susan J wrote:
I also really try to look pulled together as part of my "large family witness." My family isn't that large yet but the comments are already starting. |
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I definitely feel the same way, Susan. I wear only skirts, and I shop around to find the most stylish options that I can because I really think it serves as a good witness to the secular world that moms of "big Catholic families" (I have only four--well, almost four--but they are all under four) can still look put-together. It also helps because when I feel good about how I look, I am more cheerful and confident. (That said, I'm not sure how stylish I actually am! But I do try.)
I have also found wearing skirts only to be a way of battling vanity for me. I lost some weight over the last couple years, and now that I am in shape, I do know that I would look slimmer in pants at times. Some of the styles are really flattering on my new figure! Wearing skirts helps me counter that desire. 
Nina Murphy wrote:
Okay, y'all....how about this? My HUSBAND has been the clincher for me.
...
Anyone know what I mean or share in my experience? |
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I know what you mean, Nina, though in the opposite direction.  When I made the switch to skirts a few years ago, my husband was really, really pleased with the change. He is very conservative and really liked the idea of my taking on that particular form of modesty. Same with veiling. I have been tempted to go back to pants at various times, but when I consider his obvious preferences, I decide to stick with the skirts. I think our husbands can be really, really helpful in making decisions like these, especially when they are strong, Catholic presences in our families and dear devoted servants of Our Lord. 
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Celeste
Joyous Lessons
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CrunchyMom
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I don't veil, but I wear hats. I've always liked them, and now I am glad to have an excuse to wear them. Father always likes my hats, and after mass he complimented me, and I said I was glad to have an "excuse" to wear one, and he said that was something he liked, too, about being a priest (he was a later vocation after years as a corporate lawyer). He joked about how sad it was and blamed the Kennedy family for hats going out of fashion.
I do feel strange when I forget to cover my head for mass, but I have never worn a mantilla. I'm not a fan of lace, and mantillas only came into fashion for church as hats were going out of fashion--pretty recently. I think they are convenient because they slip into your purse, but while I think it is a lovely tradition in the "heart" behind it, I'm not a fan. Give me a classy scarf or hat any day!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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mathmama
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SusanJ wrote:
For gaining a better sense of style and what looks nice on you I can't recommend highly enough the book, It's So You by Mary Sheehan Warren. It is out of print, unfortunately, but if you can get your hands on a copy, do! She is a lovely woman and mom to five (I think). She has a beautiful perspective on beauty and femininity and really uses fashion and style as a tool rather than trying to make you a slave to all the trends. I love this book!
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Does anyone have a copy of this book they would be willing to loan? I did a search and it seems a copy cannot be had for less that $55  It is not in our local library system or in the local university systems. It sounds like it could serve as the mentor I need, but I can't justify spending that much on a used book I have never even seen 
I need the outward reminder of my femininity. I was always a "tomboy" and have *never* felt feminine  I would *love* to feel feminine and feel that by wearing clothes that are strictly women's clothes I could perhaps feel feminine. And as the mother of 3 girls I think this is important for me.
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Beth, wife to Tom and mommy to 4 beautiful girls:
Therese 11/04
Anna Mary 6/07
Veronica 10/09
Theodora 11/12
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MicheleQ
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mathmama wrote:
SusanJ wrote:
For gaining a better sense of style and what looks nice on you I can't recommend highly enough the book, It's So You by Mary Sheehan Warren. It is out of print, unfortunately, but if you can get your hands on a copy, do! She is a lovely woman and mom to five (I think). She has a beautiful perspective on beauty and femininity and really uses fashion and style as a tool rather than trying to make you a slave to all the trends. I love this book!
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Does anyone have a copy of this book they would be willing to loan? I did a search and it seems a copy cannot be had for less that $55 It is not in our local library system or in the local university systems. It sounds like it could serve as the mentor I need, but I can't justify spending that much on a used book I have never even seen
I need the outward reminder of my femininity. I was always a "tomboy" and have *never* felt feminine I would *love* to feel feminine and feel that by wearing clothes that are strictly women's clothes I could perhaps feel feminine. And as the mother of 3 girls I think this is important for me. |
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Beth I have a copy I can send to you. It was in my "to sell" pile anyway. PM me your address.
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Michele Quigley
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SeaStar
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It's So You
Here is the link to the author's web page. She sells copies for about $23, though right now it says they are temporarily unavailable. It is fun to poke around on her site for fashion ideas... there is also a link on that page for her blog... she answers fashion questions there.
Dianne-
I totally here you about the shoes. In the summer it's easy.... sandals, flip flops... but in the winter:  I have yet to find shoes that don't make me feel frumpy when worn with a skirt, and it's not really cold enough here for boots all the time.
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SeaStar
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Sorry- I was wrong about Mary Sheenan Warren's blog... doesn't seem to be much action there.
I like to look at this one, though...Sensibly Styled
These ladies do answer questions and try to keep the clothing very feminine and modest (but I warn you... one of them loves ruffles. If you like ruffles, you are in luck!)
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Maddie
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Nina Murphy wrote:
It is true....we are supposed to draaaaaw people to us, to our faith, to our love of God, not seem negligent, or make dumpy and dowdy an identifying feature for a woman of God, or insistent on being plain for the sake of plain (and then make others self-conscious for not following our standards). Ouch.
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Yeah, ouch...
It is so hard to be "on" ALL. THE. TIME. though when in public, especially the samll town we live in. Somedays dumpy is all I can muster! I'm lucky if I can find clean underwear somedays.
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Helen
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mathmama wrote:
| I wish I knew what kind of top to wear with said skirt. A top that is flattering, modest, comfortable, and easy to nurse in. |
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I hope my response isn't too off the original topic but I wanted to say something to Beth about tops with skirts. I've found the most comfortable way to wear a skirt is with a t-shirt. This is very easy to nurse in.
Personally, I avoid as much as possible, a boxy type tee. A gentle sccop neck or boat neck have a flattering look. The old fashioned advice is to stick to necks which open two fingers below ...what is that called at the bottom of your neck? This helps with not having undergarments showing or too much ... you know.
A rounded bottom edge helps a lot in mkaing a Tee shirt look good with a skirt. If you can wear the T-shirt without tucking it in, it is more forgiving on a waist that has seen some baby action. It's important to figure out where your Tee shirts should finish. Some ladies look better with a shorter shirt while others look better with a longer look.
Nowadays you can find tee shirts that don't look like they came out of Hanes undershirt package. They can have stylish necks and sleeves and still be easy to launder. (This is important with children around!!)
A surprise for me was to discover how flattering 3/4 sleeves are. If you have a chest size similar to St. Anne's Tea Room's age  then 3/4 sleeves do a lot to bring the eye away from that area and have the eye rest on your waist. I think this is true of tall women as well. I have a beautiful tall friend who wears 3/4 sleeves and I noticed how it made her look extremely elegant and graceful.(She is extremly elegant and graceful!) Also, I think T-shirts in 3/4 sleeves look better with skirts. To me they seem to "fit the look." (I should add this thought to my post on 3/4 sleeves)
I've found that having a blazer/jacket/coverall rounds out the skirt and t-shirt look very nicely and offers a little more privacy with nursing. I have three that I use often. A white denim jacket will make the skirt look more casual. My black flowy one from J. Jill adds a little more dressiness to the look. I have a brown wooly type that can go either way. I can wear the tee shirt at home and then if I step out, I throw on the jacket.
Like Susan, I think it is important when stepping out with my brood to look somewhat professional.
I've picked these things up over time. Skirts and jackets don't have wear points like pants. I have things which have lasted 10 years or more. Eventually, I have to toss them because of style changes. (I have been able to alter hems in order to get another several years out of my skirts.) But, I've found skirts to be much more long wearing and a good investment. Part of the good investment, is to always buy a shirt and skirt together (even a jackety thing). Coldwater Creek has very good sales and a large collection. Look for sales from 30-70 per cent off. If you're short, Orvis is probably not a good choice. They seem to have a good selection for tall women.
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Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
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Nina Murphy
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Maddie wrote:
Nina Murphy wrote:
It is true....we are supposed to draaaaaw people to us, to our faith, to our love of God, not seem negligent, or make dumpy and dowdy an identifying feature for a woman of God, or insistent on being plain for the sake of plain (and then make others self-conscious for not following our standards). Ouch.
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Yeah, ouch...
It is so hard to be "on" ALL. THE. TIME. though when in public, especially the samll town we live in. Somedays dumpy is all I can muster! I'm lucky if I can find clean underwear somedays. |
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Hello. I hear ya. I really struggle with this. I am trying to improve. But I tend towards comfortable. People seem to really respond better to my "mission" as a mom with a large family when I make the effort....although we can't live for impressing other people or be aware of human respect. Again, balance.
I like Helen's suggestions. I really need to invest some money into nicer clothes that FIT -----that aren't too costly. Nothing lasts, everything gets stained. Oh, how I love denim for this reason.
My proportions are hard to fit.....it is a real challenge. My arms and legs are very long. I have very broad shoulders....jackets look very masculine on me, but that is a cute look and looks so classy. And after all of these pregnancies, ya know....the hips.
Anyway, sigh.....just trying to live my daily duty is hard enough sometimes....worrying about shopping is the last thing I have time for. I HATE the shopping process.
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~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: dresses only?
