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melanie
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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Ok, well, thank you for reposting that. I do apologize if I sounded rude. I don't feel like I know enough about Serendipity in it's entirety, since we have just started using parts of it, or about Waldorf for that matter, to say anymore about it, just that we have loved what we've seen. I do hate this division in the group. It happens over and over, in every group it seems. Satan must love to get infighting started among Catholics, whether over homeschooling methods, or the type of mass they attend, how traditional they are or are not, etc. I pray for peaceful hearts and cooler heads for everyone tonight, including myself. 
__________________
Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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cathhomeschool
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Texas Bluebonnets
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 6:52pm | IP Logged
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msclavel wrote:
cathhomeschool wrote:
We deleted your previous public responses because they were not respectfully phrased. I am sorry that you find that shocking. Our actions are consistent with our policy of trying to maintain an atmosphere of respect even while we agree to disagree about specific topics. |
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This is news to me. This is what I was told when my messages were deleted:
Quote:
| Thank you for your concern, Maria, and for your sincere comments. I have moved your post off the Eastern Asia thread because, as you know, we have asked members to PM moderators with their concerns about our policy. |
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That is another one of the valid reason for having your post deleted.
msclavel wrote:
| I have done none of these things. I simply want to be sure that the throwing of Serendipity into a category of educational methods "condemned" by the Church does not go unanswered. It is misleading and clear to me that allowing this statement to stand leaves the impression that there "might" be something at Serendipity contrary to the Faith. I am not the only one concerned about this, as others have posted. |
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Whether or not there is something at Serendipity that is contrary to the Faith has never been discussed here and we are not trying to give the impression that there might be. We have recommended that individuals read our policy, read the Church documents linked in our policy, and make their own decisions regarding their families. We have stated that we, as a board, do not feel we can moderate these discussions. It is up to the individual family to make decisions and those discussions can happen elsewhere on the web.
We have said nothing here to harm the reputation of your friends and have said nothing to make members feel fear or guilt. We are all called to make informed decisions regarding the education of our children. We are all called to discern what is best for our families. The moderators have linked the Church documents that we have used so that members can read and make their own decisions. We have taken great pains to ensure that no one feels judged or swayed in their opinion. We are not moderating Waldorf discussions because we, as moderators, are not qualified to do so. This is not a judgment of anyone. It is a boundary decision for us.
I do not think that I can make this any clearer.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 7:14pm | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
We have taken great pains to ensure that no one feels judged or swayed in their opinion. We are not moderating Waldorf discussions because we, as moderators, are not qualified to do so. This is not a judgment of anyone. It is a boundary decision for us.
I do not think that I can make this any clearer. |
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I think it is VERY clear. It's a BOUNDARY decision NOT A JUDGMENT. That's why I said originally that it was respectful and charitable and frankly I am at a loss as to why that seems to be so hard to understand.
We need to assume the best of everyone on ALL sides of this issue. The moderators did what they felt was best for all involved, let's try and respect that.
I know I'm not the only one who hopes we can give the moderators a break and stop beating this dead horse.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
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dh and I have been studying the Catechism lately on the section regarding the common good vs. the personal, or private good.
When people come together as a group, as we have here at 4Real, Moderators imho, must act for us in what they believe will be in accordance with the Church in protecting our common good. If one person or individual persons feel offended or attacked or if a certain program or programs developed by another individual or group are not in union with the common good's mission statement, then the action taken by the moderators is not to attack another's person, or slander or infringe on their privacy (hurt feelings), but rather to protect as the Church does our common body, which is represented when we come here together at 4Real.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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KC in TX
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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__________________
KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
Mama to LB ('98)
Michaela ('01)
Emma ('03)
Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
The Cabbage Patch
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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OK....so what does this mean? I'm very confused. What does this have to do with Elizabeth?
Really, we need to be very careful. The Evil One is working very hard on the Church right now and persecutions are increasing all over the place..... This is a time of great grief for many Catholics.
I don't really have anything to do with this..... but I am inspired to suggest that we offer this up for the Holy Father?
Dear friends, we need to unite, not divide, at this time, right? We all have the same heart. We're all struggling to keep on keeping on! WE NEED EACH OTHER, MORE THAN EVER. *I* need you.  Love and hugs to all of my comrades in this battle....we are in a battle. 
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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Nina, well said! I think several people have tried to say the same thing, but not succinctly - and I couldn't come up with the words either...
We must pull together in charity for and solidarity with one another.
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Garden of Francis
HS Elementary Montessori Training
Montessori Nuggets
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Willa
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| Posted: March 25 2010 at 10:34pm | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
I don't really have anything to do with this..... but I am inspired to suggest that we offer this up for the Holy Father?
Dear friends, we need to unite, not divide, at this time, right? |
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Dear Nina,
Ditto
Thanks for the suggestion -- the Holy Father has been often on my mind recently. What suffering and responsibility over so many souls! What public affronts he faces daily! Truly, if this is difficult for our own community and those we care deeply about, how much more difficulty he lives with moment by moment. He needs all the prayers and trials we can offer during this holy season of Christ's Passion. Perhaps somehow we can do great good this way by maintaining ties of friendship even where we disagree.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Maggie
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Hosts, by the Power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the evil spirits, prowling about the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
__________________
Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 7:11am | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
OK....so what does this mean? I'm very confused. What does this have to do with Elizabeth?
Dear friends, we need to unite, not divide, at this time, right? We all have the same heart. We're all struggling to keep on keeping on! WE NEED EACH OTHER, MORE THAN EVER. *I* need you. Love and hugs to all of my comrades in this battle....we are in a battle. |
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I thought about your post a lot last night. Unity is near and dear to my heart. Here’s what it means to me, Nina.
Every time those in authority in a community seek to draw circles that exclude good Catholics, we all lose. In this case, how very many of us have shared, freely, our own unit studies, lapbooks, and other personal lesson plans with each other? That’s all that Serendipity is guilty of. They aren’t presenting a theology, or even a philosophy. They are offering unit studies, lapbooks, and booklists, no different than the rest of us have done for years.
The contributors of Serendipity are the ones that have been drawn outside of the circle this time. Next time it may be me. I used to be a part of fundamentalist Protestantism. I’ve seen this technique before.
This is why I can pray for unity, but no matter how lovely a letter is written explaining this new decision, I can never ever be a part of this community again. It is only a matter of time before ever narrower circles are drawn. I shall miss deeply the friends I have made here.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:14am | IP Logged
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Joining Maggie's prayer:
St. Michael, defend and pray for us.
__________________
Garden of Francis
HS Elementary Montessori Training
Montessori Nuggets
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LeeAnn
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
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I think the moderators made a wise decision to recognize their own limits as moderators; limits in both time they can spend moderating and in knowledge. Better to have limited conversation about things that are known to be approved by the Church with little need for moderation than unlimited conversation about anything with a constant need for moderation.
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my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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4RealModerators
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 12:25pm | IP Logged
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In an effort to lessen misunderstandings, we have been moving posts until a moderator has time to respond. We now realize that moving them is causing confusion and hurt feelings.
Instead, when questions arise that require a response from a moderator, we will lock the thread until a moderator has time to respond.
We will be moving Bookswithtea's post back, and we'll lock the thread until later today or tonight when someone is able to respond.
Thank you for being patient with us as we really are trying to do our best with a very challenging situation.
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4RealModerators
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
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Books,
We are uncomfortable with your statement that we are "drawing circles" to exclude anyone here. This is not the case. What we *are* doing is:
1. Doing our best to uphold the teachings of our beloved Faith;
2. Doing our best to fulfill our primary vocations as wives and mothers;
3. Working to preserve a spirit of civility here at 4Real;
4. Admitting that some topics, including politics, anthroposophy and Waldorf-related discussions, are beyond our ability to moderate. Both Waldorf in general and Serendipity in specific are irreconcilably divisive; here at 4Real, experience has shown that there is no way to resolve the disagreement without involving someone who's an authority on identifying anthroposophy.
We have set a boundary about discussing Waldorf or curriculums that are related in some way to Waldorf; namely, that these conversations should be taken off-board.
We have said nothing about what people choose to use in their homes, whether they're for or against Waldorf.
In short, it is about a TOPIC, not about people.
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folklaur
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
dh and I have been studying the Catechism lately on the section regarding the common good vs. the personal, or private good.
When people come together as a group, as we have here at 4Real, Moderators imho, must act for us in what they believe will be in accordance with the Church in protecting our common good. If one person or individual persons feel offended or attacked or if a certain program or programs developed by another individual or group are not in union with the common good's mission statement, then the action taken by the moderators is not to attack another's person, or slander or infringe on their privacy (hurt feelings), but rather to protect as the Church does our common body, which is represented when we come here together at 4Real.
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but they have said, repeatedly, that they are NOT theologians, and are not trying to speak as theologians.
So, are they truly in the position of authority of "protecting" us in this matter, as you claim above?
If they feel the need for boundaries, is it quite clear that it is their board and their rules - so be it.
But I think caution is in order - the mods are NOT our spiritual directors, nor are they Church Leaders - I would caution likening them to a teaching authority of the Church, and it's job as "protector."
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folklaur
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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MicheleQ wrote:
I think it is VERY clear. It's a BOUNDARY decision NOT A JUDGMENT. That's why I said originally that it was respectful and charitable and frankly I am at a loss as to why that seems to be so hard to understand. |
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Since you say you are at a loss to understand, let me explain why it is hard for *me*.
Anyone with any experience with basic logic can see that the way things are being presented is totally illogical.
A=B, B=C, so A=C.
A: Waldorf is unsound, and condemned by the Church
B: Serendipity is Waldorf.
What is the logical conclusion of "C"?
And yet we are told, "No one has condemned Serendipity."
Tim says here:
administrator wrote:
As regards the recent Serendipity discussions, the moderators have gently but repeatedly stated their position, in which there is no condemnation of Serendipity |
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But it is obvious to anyone who can connect the dots, or who understands logic, that that is EXACTLY what is being said.
Are you really, really saying you don't understand that?
Again - the mods make the rules, and it is their board to run as they see fit. I get that.
But asking me to accept that something is NOT being said, when it obviously is....Well, that is something that *I* am at a loss to understand. So I guess that "feeling at a loss" is a feeling that lots of us are having. It is most certainly being said. It's like "talking out of both sides of your mouth."
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:13pm | IP Logged
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4RealModerators wrote:
1. Doing our best to uphold the teachings of our beloved Faith;
In short, it is about a TOPIC, not about people. |
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cactus mouse, this is what I meant primarily in my post.
when we DO come together as a group, it is inevitable that some boundaries will be made.
I was simply comparing this group as having a model to mimic in the Church.
And when our Church does provide us with guidance in the form of the catechism and apostolic letters, it is to make our lives easier - less painful - less burdensome!
I'm grateful that the mods here are recognizing their limitations - and I respect that too. They are providing me with a free service after all, and if they request staying away from certain topics then I am fine with that.
Or, conversely, I could leave.
There is freedom in truth, and this is what our Church desires for us- freedom is very different than inclusivity, but that is another post! 
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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argh! sorry, but I can't clean the above post up properly!!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:19pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
I respectfully ask that you refrain from accusing the moderators of doing something that we have not done. Perhaps it's just the lack of personal connection and body language here in cyberspace, but I feel uncomfortable reading your words to Michele. We reopened the thread so that members could *charitably* express their opinions.
We, as moderators, wives and mothers, are not setting ourselves up as anyone's protectors. I'm sure that if you take the time to carefully re-read our letter to the membership you will see that, as well as the fact that we have not made any judgments about Serendipity except to agree with the fact that it is influenced by Waldorf, as its own authors have stated.
We have attempted, with every good intention, to explain to you and to the membership here the reasoning behind our policy change. If you choose to see other reasons behind our decisions, after so many explanations, I cannot think of anything else to say but that we have to agree to disagree.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 26 2010 at 8:20pm | IP Logged
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4RealModerators wrote:
4. Admitting that some topics, including politics, anthroposophy and Waldorf-related discussions, are beyond our ability to moderate. In short, it is about a TOPIC, not about people. |
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again, this is what I was trying to quote. I respect and am ok with this boundary, as the moderators can't/aren't able to take on such topics. there are quite a few other topics out there that I am looking forward to diving into after Easter!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Wow (
Topic Closed)
