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gwendyt
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| Posted: June 26 2008 at 9:38am | IP Logged
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Karen, I purchased the TM for STSS this year thinking that the reading lists in there would be helpful, since I'm using the book simply as a spine outline to follow. I found that the list I had already compiled last time we did American history was already more extensive than the lists they offered. I would say the TM would be helpful to someone starting with no addt'l living book lists and for those wanting the answers to the end of chapter questions and reminders of key events and vocab. to remember from each chapter. Its not a bad TM, just pretty basic and straightforward. Good for a person just starting to introduce AH.
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Wendy
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teachingmom
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| Posted: June 26 2008 at 10:51pm | IP Logged
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12stars wrote:
And on top of it all I am going to sound like a dork but what does spine mean?
That you can use it for more than 1 child at the same time?  |
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No, you don't sound like a dork at all, Claudia! A history spine is just a book that might be more textbookish that covers a chosen period of time or history topic. (Ex. American history, Middle Ages, Ancient Greece, world history, etc.) Many people will read from the "spine" throughout the year, while supplementing it with "living books." By that I mean good historical fiction, literature set during the time period, and biographies - books that make history come alive.
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MaryM
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| Posted: June 26 2008 at 11:13pm | IP Logged
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teachingmom wrote:
12stars wrote:
And on top of it all I am going to sound like a dork but what does spine mean?
That you can use it for more than 1 child at the same time? |
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No, you don't sound like a dork at all, Claudia! A history spine is just a book that might be more textbookish that covers a chosen period of time or history topic. (Ex. American history, Middle Ages, Ancient Greece, world history, etc.) Many people will read from the "spine" throughout the year, while supplementing it with "living books." By that I mean good historical fiction, literature set during the time period, and biographies - books that make history come alive. |
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And since it sounds like it wasn't the hit you hoped it would be with your daughter, using it as a spine as described by Irene would probably be a good option. That way it would guide your studies and you could use it as an outline of what to cover and a source of facts but supplement with the living literature and such that sounds like might be a better fit for your daughter's learning preferences.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Mary G
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| Posted: June 27 2008 at 7:50am | IP Logged
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That's how I'll use FStSS ... we're going to do American History over the next 2 years so we can really learn it ... (and have an excuse for lots of field trips  ) ... Using FStSS as a spine I can make sure we keep SOME semblance of order (ie, method to our madness  ) but will extensively augment what's there as it is a very traditional text-book presentation but has great usability for quick snippets and potential rabbit trails.
Hope I didn't confuse you more!
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MaryG
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MarilynW
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| Posted: June 27 2008 at 8:04am | IP Logged
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Oh dear - another choice for me. But I checked the google books and liked both the books AYL and FSTSS. Would you use these for Junior High over resources such as Our Pioneers and Patriots, Christ the King Lord of History, The Old World and America and Christ and the Americas.
History is so important to us - I am having real difficulty on deciding on a coherent approach.
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Marilyn
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Mary G
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MarilynW wrote:
Oh dear - another choice for me. But I checked the google books and liked both the books AYL and FSTSS. Would you use these for Junior High over resources such as Our Pioneers and Patriots, Christ the King Lord of History, The Old World and America and Christ and the Americas.
History is so important to us - I am having real difficulty on deciding on a coherent approach. |
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The way the Catholic Textbook Project has these set up is that FSTSS is for 4/5 grades and the AYL is 6/7 and more geography than history ...
The problem I have with OPP and OWA is that they're so old fashioned that the kids don't spark to them -- not something they'd pick up on their own to read. Anne Carroll's books are great but maybe a bit older (high school) rather than middle/jr high. I thought about using AC's American history as a spine, but it just didn't speak to me the way the FSTSS did ... if that means anything.
Now, I had orginally thought of going with Winter Promise -- but their guides are way beyond what I want to pay and I'd have to tweak anyway ... but I may "scavenge" their book list and hope PW has them in their library system .... dh has put me on a strict book-buying budget (or "S B-cubed" as I call it!  ) ...
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MaryG
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12stars
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| Posted: June 27 2008 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
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Mary what do you like about WP for jr high history?
I would love to know, I sold AYL, I wish I didn't now but I did last night I didn't read the whole thread and jumped ship!! So now once again I am in desperate search for the right history all I know right now is that she wants to study early ancient history. Has any one tried RC History?
Thanks for letting me know what a spine was, teaching mom ans Marym. 
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Claudia in Southern California
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Mary G
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| Posted: June 27 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
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12stars wrote:
| Mary what do you like about WP for jr high history? |
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Claudia -- I'm doing American History with a 4th, 3rd and 1st grader this year, so I haven't really looked at WP for Jr. High. You might check this thread for some ideas. Cactus Mouse is the doyenne of WP and may be able to help you out with middle/jr. high type stuff.
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MaryG
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ALmom
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12stars - Yes, we use RC History and it works well for us. I think it is a great base though I don't always use their spine. For my highschoolers I used some texts I had around the house that were specific Ancient History texts (they are very thick and could be considered very dry but are available through Roman Catholic Books).
For my Jr High folks, I use their recommended spine and/or any other texts I have that do the best job. Sometimes it varies with each child. I don't follow anything exactly but RC History is easily tweakable.
Janet
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donnalynn
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| Posted: June 28 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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Mary G wrote:
The way the Catholic Textbook Project has these set up is that FSTSS is for 4/5 grades and the AYL is 6/7 and more geography than history ...
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Mary, I'm curious, where did you see this? When I checked the website page it looks like FSTSS is meant for grades 5-9 and AYL for grades 6-9. I have always been puzzled why homeschooling programs seem to use these at the younger end of the spectrum rather than as a solid middle school text for say 7th and 8th.
Am I missing something?
I am thinking of having my 8th grader use this for the timeline project for US History found in CHC's middle school lessons with some historical fiction added in as well. CHC suggests using "Christ and the Americas" but I think I'd rather save that for high school. (Besides, I have FSTsS and haven't used it yet - I'm trying to use resources I have already bought ).
I'm wondering what makes something "grade level". I guess I am thinking it would be easier to add more to an "easier" text than to use resources that are meant for older students. What do you think?
I'm working this out in brain as I type - I guess I am looking at having dd focus more on writing next year so I'd rather have information that was more easily taken in and emphasize more on how if gets back down on paper. Does that make sense?
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MaryM
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| Posted: June 28 2008 at 2:11pm | IP Logged
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donnalynn wrote:
Mary G wrote:
The way the Catholic Textbook Project has these set up is that FSTSS is for 4/5 grades and the AYL is 6/7 and more geography than history ...
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Mary, I'm curious, where did you see this? When I checked the website page it looks like FSTSS is meant for grades 5-9 and AYL for grades 6-9. I have always been puzzled why homeschooling programs seem to use these at the younger end of the spectrum rather than as a solid middle school text for say 7th and 8th.
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I'm with you, Donna. This is my understanding of the ages as stated on the website and hearing from the wife of one of the authors - they are meant as a middle school program, with a range that gives flexibility for slightly older or younger depending on the child. My dd used FSTSS a little this year and are continuing them 7th-8th as well. I definitely don't think they are too simple for those ages. I've looked at them compared to say Furlong's Old World and America which is listed 6th-8th in many curricula and it seems on target text/reading level with FSTSS and AYL.
We had a bit of discussion on the Catholic Textbook Project here a few weeks ago. I mentioned in that thread that Ignatius Press who for years was the main sources of purchasing (since they were publishing them) listed on the website the lowest grade of the range as the one it was geared to. They didn't list the whole range. I believe that is where the general usage/recommendation of them at the lower grade range came about.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Bookswithtea
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I've been reading along with y'all. Fwiw, I like FSTSS for middle schoolers and AYL is definitely for someone close to 9th grade. The problem is that FSTSS ends at 1900, and AYL isn't really a complete program for a 9th grader. So I think they get used at younger ages, rather than supplementing with other resources.
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MaryM
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I too wish FSTSS covered some beyond 1900. So many of the older Catholic texts were written in the 30s-50s so it makes sense that those wouldn't cover much of the last few decades before their publications, but 100 years now seems like a pretty substantial time. I do think that the fact that FSTSS is meant for middle school use and consciously focuses on the origins and development of the country from pre-colonization to the Civil War as the scope/sequence for those grade levels, may have something to do with it. The text they are working on for high school, One Nation, Under God, looks like it will include recent history as well as really cover government more in depth.
And in reflecting on AYL not being a complete program, it helps to remember that All Ye Lands was written as a World Geography and Cultures course. Clearly when learning about world cultures, history is going to be part of that presentation, but this text is not meant to be a chronological history text. If it is used that way it will come up lacking or not complete.
In the traditional school setting it is common for the 9th grade social studies course to be World Geography. It is often a one semester course paired with Civics or a Government course for the other semester (unless the school or district does American Government as a 12th grade course). Anyway - generally there is no specific "history" course that year. The Catholic Textbook Project books are written for schools in general so fits that model. A Light to the Nations: Development of Christian Civilization which is the two volume World History text, looks to be a much more complete and thorough presentation of chronological history from early civilizations to present which would be a high school level course (often 10th grade).
Of course as homeschoolers we are able to adapt and teach as we like and the timing of "courses" often varies from the tradtional current school model but it does help to remember that this is the typical scope and sequence of the school setting. It helps to have a general understanding of where this is coming from. I think if AYL is used as a Geography text as it was intended it could be appreciated it for what is and not what it is not. I hope that makes sense.
Social studies in the elementary and middle school years are going to cover geography, civics, history as well but often as integrated studies not individual courses like would be present in upper grades. It is part of the social studies cycle that repeats and gets more in depth in later years. Early years can be more an introduction and overview.
What I love most about homeschooling is that history is not just a course to teach and doesn’t have to be just part of “social studies” but an element of other subject matter, like science and religion, and literature. You can learn history while studying any other subject, and particularly by reading good living books covering historical time periods.
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Mary M. in Denver
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teachingmom
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| Posted: June 30 2008 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
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donnalynn wrote:
Mary G wrote:
The way the Catholic Textbook Project has these set up is that FSTSS is for 4/5 grades and the AYL is 6/7 and more geography than history ...
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Mary, I'm curious, where did you see this? When I checked the website page it looks like FSTSS is meant for grades 5-9 and AYL for grades 6-9. |
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Thanks for clarifying this, Donna. I have wondered about those lower age recommendations because the books always seemed solid enough to use with older children.
MarilynW wrote:
Would you use these for Junior High over resources such as Our Pioneers and Patriots, Christ the King Lord of History, The Old World and America and Christ and the Americas.
History is so important to us - I am having real difficulty on deciding on a coherent approach. |
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Yes, I've chosen them over the others. Although I must admit that I haven't read the others. Just perused them at conferences and such. Here is what we do so far in my house:
Up through 6th grade, everyone does history together on a daily basis. I don't use a text or spine. We just choose one or two time periods to study each year and dive in with living books - both picture books and chapter books. For example, we studied early American history this past year, including Columbus and other explorers, the colonial era, and the American Revolution. The year before we studied Ancient Rome the first semester and World War II the second semester. After a few years, we revisit time periods so the younger girls will benefit. I still haven't decided where we are headed next year.
For middle school I have my girls use From Sea to Shining Sea (7th grade) and All Ye Lands (8th grade) on their own. On most days,my oldest (who is the only one who has finished 7th and 8th grade like this so far) also listened in on her younger sisters' history read alouds, except for the picture books. I had her supplement with independent reading of historical living books related to her studies or to the historical period I am covering with her younger sisters. We worked out a schedule in which some days she read from the text and some days she read from the other living books.
MarilynW wrote:
| Oh dear - another choice for me. But I checked the google books and liked both the books AYL and FSTSS. |
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Marilyn, what is google books?
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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12stars
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| Posted: June 30 2008 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
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I was wondering about Light To The Nations.
My 7th grader likes History and we have gone through most FSTSS and ALY except the middle ages I don't know what to choose now that I have narrowed down the time period. I just sold my AYL and I will be selling FSTSS ( if anyone is interested) because we covered those topics in the last 2 years.
Can anyone give me ideas for this grade I really like RC history but not sure where to go from there. Is Light to the Nations to advanced?
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Claudia in Southern California
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: ALL Ye Lands and Sea to...
