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JennGM
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2) What are the types of liturgy within the Church? (Mass, Sacraments, Liturgy of the Hours, and official Sacramentals. The Liturgical Year and Roman Ritual are included in parts of the Liturgy.)
Besides the Mass being the central pivotal part, the Church's Liturgy is comprised of:
The Seven Sacraments
Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours or Breviary
Official Sacramentals, including the Roman Ritual (Book of Blessings)
Do you ever stumble over words? Even though you know the essence of the meaning, I often struggle to pinpoint the exact meaning of some words. Liturgy is one of those words for me. I wanted to understand the difference of liturgy and Liturgy, and then what aspects of our worship was Official Liturgy and not.
The Liturgical Year and Calendar is an integral part of the Liturgy, but not as a stand-alone component. It's a regulator of sorts, one of the official books, so to say to give direction on implementing the Liturgy. The Mass, the Breviary, and even the Sacraments in smaller ways, all hinge upon the Liturgical Calendar.
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JennGM
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Tell me to stop if this doesn't make sense....jump in at any time. I won't keep posting ad nauseum, I just had these answered for myself and thought I would post them.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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MicheleQ
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JennGM wrote:
| Tell me to stop if this doesn't make sense....jump in at any time. I won't keep posting ad nauseum, I just had these answered for myself and thought I would post them. |
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Oh no, I love it --definitely print worthy!!
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i'm loving this thread, jenn. thanks for starting it, eleanor! please keep posting!
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This is wonderful. As I was reading the posts above I was thinking this would make a great class for me to attend. Keep talkin'! 
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JennGM
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I've got lots of notes and ideas floating in my head, but I'm off for a silent retreat for 3 days! Carry on without me! I do hope to finish my thoughts more clearly when I am refreshed  ....
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Jennifer G. Miller
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momwise
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Very interesting posts ladies!! Jenn, I love the outline; I'm printing it for myself. I love Eleanor's post because I've been giving some thought to this issue for some time.
We know the core of the Liturgy is mass, specifically Sunday mass, and through the Domestic Church's presence on Sunday, the theme, the readings, the Gospel and the Sacrifice itself are carried home to the "little" churches and then out to the community!! That is so awesome to ponder isn't it?
Each family has a charism (why can't I spell that?) for that evangelization to be most effective. God uses one Liturgy and millions of families to accomplish literally a gazillion little missions for Him throughout the world.
I don't have time to say nearly all I am rolling around in my head but hopefully I can come back and converse a little more.
JennGM wrote:
Maybe we could touch on these areas? Comments? See it a different way?
1) What is Liturgy?
2) What are the types of liturgy within the Church?
(Mass, Sacraments, Liturgy of the Hours, and official Sacramentals. The Liturgical Year and Roman Ritual are included in parts of the Liturgy.)
snip>>>>
6) What is the family (domestic church) What is the family’s relation within the Mystical Body?
7) What is the correlation and connection between the Church and her Liturgy and the Domestic Church?
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I think with the Sunday mass as central, the theme of the daily mass then comes up next. I like to use the Collect at home on various feasts and memorials.
The Readings from Sunday can be used for preparation and after Sunday, for Scripture study, memorization, as a basis for teachings from the Faith, etc. My favorite resource is Open Wednesday
the Liturgy of the Hours can be incorporated daily...my thought is that the Canticles from Morning and Night prayers are the easiest to get started with for families. As children grow, so can the extent of the prayers. There are a few threads on this topic I think.
Oh I have to go. I am looking forward to seeing more thoughts!
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I love Open Wednesday...
I think it's so helpful to have the Sunday Gospel message near at hand all through the week. This week (fig tree parable, plus some very compelling commentary on repentance) is easy to remember, but other weeks' Gospels are more complex and thus harder to remember.
How do you keep the weekly Gospel message alive in your homes all week long? (Bulletin/chalk board, poster, discussions, ???)
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TxTrish
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I have been thinking about this particular discussion all weekend.
The goal I have with my children is to teach them that being Catholic is who we are, not what we do on Sunday.
That being said, I think it will look different in my family than it will in yours. Some years (or months, or weeks) we do the artsy craftsy stuff, read saints books, study about the place - or place in time - they are from.... it all depends on what we are up to in life (and our basic studies) that week.
We usually make daily Mass once a week. Usually.
It just isn't doable for us to go to daily mass, for a variety of reasons. That is my family.
I teach middle school girls CCD.
We study what is happening it the liturgy each week.
We talk about the readings, what they mean (according to the Church) and how they apply and how to live them in our own lives.
Here are some of the resources I use Open Wednesday, Joan Edwards site, Catholic Mom - resources in her "lesson plans" are sometimes just what I need, Catechetical Resources, Word Sunday, The Catholic Toolbox, Catholic Faith Education, Catholic Icing, and whatever else seems appropriate along the way. I don't use all of these every time, of course. I also have learned a million wonderful things from all you brilliant gals along the way.
I always read the readings from the Bible and check the commentary online (challoner and/or haydock are the ones I like best). I also read from Pius Parsch's books, and Dom Prosper Gueranger's Liturgical Year. I own the former, and read the latter online (one day I will purchase this!) .Catholic Culture is my homepage, the information contained there is just unmatched. This is the major part of MY preparation so that I can talk somewhat intelligently about the topic at hand. I have found that by making our focus (at home and in my class) the liturgy, many, many of the things we need to know as Catholics are automatically covered. It seems to touch on everything, like it is all woven together. I found that quite interesting.
At my house, our focus moves around - changing somewhat from year to year, with certain things becoming 'our' family tradition, and others things we wouldn't even want to do. But, what I can see on a daily basis is this - my children are Catholics in every part of their being. It is who they are and what they do - and they didn't have to work and suffer to get it that way. As a young adult I had to read and read and read, and go to talk with my priest for clarification, and pray and pray and work hard to change my thoughts and actions to match what our faith teaches. I wasn't taught these things growing up. I love the in the Act of Faith that states "I believe these and all the the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, because Thou hast revealed them, who canst neither deceive nor be deceived." But I really had to pray my way there.
But, I feel fortunate - looking back over my adult life, I can see progress both for my family and for myself. We pray for the guidance in our family every day to do God's will, and work at doing what we are supposed to do. At least that is what we try for 
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JennGM
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3)Why is it so important to have public worship (and how public worship/liturgy includes both exterior and interior elements).
Father Hardon, Question and Answer Catechism wrote:
1658. How are liturgy and worship related?
Liturgy is the highest form of worship, because it glorifies God publicly as the origin and destiny, not only of man individually but of mankind as a society, and the worship is given officially, by the Church and under her divinely established authority.
1661. What is public worship?
Public worship is another name for the liturgy. It is called public because it is given by the Church and in her name, and not only by individuals on their own, private initiative.
1663. Is public worship necessary?
Public worship is necessary because God wants us to honor him as social beings. |
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Interior and exterior elements in liturgy itself.
Virgil Michel, The Liturgy of the Church According to the Roman Rite,, 1937 wrote:
The official worship of the Church here on earth is always both exterior and social because the Church is a visible society or fellowship of souls. Just as man is by nature both soul and body, so also is he social by nature. Since his worship of God must be an expression of his whole self, the virtue of religion also obliges man to social worship, without which he cannot pay full homage to God as he should. This social worship is rendered easily possible by him through the Church’s liturgy, which is the official social exercise of the virtue of religion by the Church in the name of her children, and in which all her children can and should join. |
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The word "public" was a bit offputting to me, but after reading a few places illustrating why Liturgy is public worship (like those shared above), I could see why it is so important as members of the Church to really unite as one together in prayer. And I often think it's not just uniting to those present physically, but the Liturgy unites all of the Communion of Saints, present and past, all united in one worship of God.
All worship must be interior; it must have the interior quality coming from the heart, otherwise the exterior worship becomes just formality and mockery. But the interior worship is then expressed in external words and signs of the Liturgy. Virgil Michel says: It is then not the external make-believe of worship, but the exteriorizing of real interior worship.
I'm easily reminded by the internal/external elements when I think of the Baltimore Catechism answer "A sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace." But also the other aspects of liturgy: posture, sacred vessels, music, language, architecture, etc.
Skipping ahead, thinking of how the family is the Church in miniature, having our worship of God united together imitates the Church's liturgy, but taking it a further step, uniting the family's prayer with the Church's liturgy brings us together as the Communion of Saints, the Mystical Body of Christ.
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Part of our retreat we heard the beginning of Salt of the Earth: The Church at the End of the Millennium: An Interview With Peter Seewald. This was an interview when Pope Benedict was still Cardinal Ratzinger.
These beginning sections I thought really tied in to our discussion. From pp. 48-49:
Could one say that the family home was markedly religious?
One could certainly say that. My father was a very religious man. On Sundays he went to Mass at six, then to the main liturgy at nine, and again in the afternoon. My mother had a very warm and heartfelt piety. On that point the two, again, were at one in different ways. Religion was quite central.
What was your religious education at home like? I mean, a lot of parents today clearly have a problem with it.
Religion was a part of life. The simple fact of praying together made it so. There was prayer at all meals. Whenever our school schedule would allow it, we naturally also went to daily Mass, and on Sundays we went to church together. Later, when my father was retired, we generally also prayed the rosary; for the rest my parents relied on the catechesis we received in school. My father also bought us things to read; there were magazines, for example, when we made our First Holy Communion. But there wasn’t explicitly religious education; it was given by family prayer and church attendance.
As a young person, what did you find so fascinating about the faith?
From the very beginning—it was exactly the same for my brother and sister, I think—I had a lot of interest in the liturgy. My parents had already bought me my first missal when I was in the second grade. It was actually terribly exciting to penetrate into the mysterious world of the Latin liturgy and to find out what was actually happening, what it meant, what was being said. And so then we progressed by degrees from a children’s missal to a more complete missal, to the complete version. That was kind of voyage of discovery.
What is a missal?
A missal is the book that the pirest uses at the altar for Mass. There are smaller versions—and in translation—that the ordinary Christian can obtain.
Then we found the liturgical feats fascinating, of course, with the music and all the ornamentation and images. That is one aspect. The other is that from the very beginning everything that was said in religion interested me intellectually as well. You could say I was led on step by step in my own thinking. In addition, it was a definite advantage that in the Nazi era you had to explain yourself accurately. Everyone know: he is Catholic, he goes to church, or even wants to be a priest. In this way you go drawn into controversies and had to learn to arm yourself. It was obviously interesting to find arguments and to understand them, so that it also became an intellection adventure, which, so to speak, opened wider and wider and revealed broader horizons. This combination of the festive-liturgical and the intellectual seemed to me, as I sought to understand the world, an especially wonderful opportunity for enriching one’s life.
There is obviously a powerful connection here with your Bavarian homeland as well as with distinctively Bavarian Catholicism. You have repeatedly stressed that you want to defend precisely that humble faith of the simple people against the arrogance of the theologians and also against the detached, bourgeois, comfortable faith of the big cities.
We tried to maintain a simple, Catholic, faith. But our faith took on its coloration first in the country and then in the little city of Traunstein, where Catholicism was really deeply interwoven with the living culture of that land and its history. It was, I would say, inculturation. It was thus an expression [of faith] that suited us and that our own history had brought us....
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Becky Parker
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I see I should have read here before asking my question about Open Wednesday in another thread! I'm glad it's getting good reviews!
Jenn wrote:
"...thinking about how the family is the Church in miniature, having our worship of God united together imitate's the Churches liturgy, but taking it a further step,uniting the family's prayer with the Church's liturgy brings us together as the Communion of Saints, the Mystical Body of Christ."
What a beautiful quote! So how do we teach this in a tangible way to our children? I feel frustration because this entire discussion has been so eye-opening for me, but I don't know how to bring it home to the kids.
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Becky Parker wrote:
I see I should have read here before asking my question about Open Wednesday in another thread! I'm glad it's getting good reviews!
Jenn wrote:
"...thinking about how the family is the Church in miniature, having our worship of God united together imitate's the Churches liturgy, but taking it a further step,uniting the family's prayer with the Church's liturgy brings us together as the Communion of Saints, the Mystical Body of Christ."
What a beautiful quote! So how do we teach this in a tangible way to our children? I feel frustration because this entire discussion has been so eye-opening for me, but I don't know how to bring it home to the kids. |
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I do think it is baby steps and small ways. I forget what thread you talked about your cycle, how you did more and now are drawing back. I really think small ways, nothing elaborate, teach big things. We are just presenting seeds to our children, and nourish them in various ways, but it all needs time and silence and contemplation and cooperation with Grace to grow.
Although simple, I think the Open Wednesday is one excellent way.
And while "doing with the kids" is so good, I was touched by Pope Benedict's relaying how seeing how his family participated in the Liturgy, prayed together, his own readings of the missal really started his journey and love for the Faith. Example, example, example seems to be so much of relaying the Faith!
And I keep thinking, God and His grace are not that complicated, so I try to not be, either. 
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Eleanor
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I agree, Jenn. The passage that you posted about the Holy Father's childhood suggests that maybe it's not essential to put so much effort into teaching about the liturgy. Not that we shouldn't do that, if we have the opportunity -- but even if we don't, we can teach volumes just by the example of doing it!
DH and I have recently been talking a lot about homeschooling and the faith, and the various questions and challenges that typically come up. We both feel that Catholic family life is typically portrayed in a way that puts too much direct focus on the children. Of course, the children's needs do occupy a lot of the parents' time, but that doesn't mean that they're at the center of everything. It seems to us that this is in some ways more of a secular, progressivist idea... i.e., that the purpose of family life is to give parents the opportunity to turn their children into perfect human beings, by following all the "right" theories and methods. The bankruptcy of this approach is obvious, and its results are all around us.
Of course, the real reason we have families is to help everyone get to heaven, and to cooperate with one another and the outside world to help build God's kingdom. In this task, we all have equal dignity. The children shouldn't be pushed aside as if they were obstacles to the parents reaching their full potential, but neither should the parents find it necessary to put their own spiritual and personal growth on the back burner, for the sake of trying to create some kind of idyllic childhood scenario (which, even if we could attain it, might actually be counterproductive in the long run).
As a result of this shift in mindset, we've gone from thinking less about specific ideas and plans for the religious formation of our children, and more in terms of "family-based education." By this, we mean seeing the family as it really is: as a community of love, faith, and learning, whose educational work starts by building strong relationships between all of the family members (including the adults), then spreads outward to develop and support each person's relationships with various branches of the broader society and the Church, and ultimately, serves to build and strengthen each person's relationship with our Lord and Savior.
The concrete details of this approach would obviously look very different in every home, as our gifts and circumstances are so diverse. As Gwen said so beautifully, each family has its own mission.
Quote:
We know the core of the Liturgy is mass, specifically Sunday mass, and through the Domestic Church's presence on Sunday, the theme, the readings, the Gospel and the Sacrifice itself are carried home to the "little" churches and then out to the community!! That is so awesome to ponder isn't it?
Each family has a charism (why can't I spell that?) for that evangelization to be most effective. God uses one Liturgy and millions of families to accomplish literally a gazillion little missions for Him throughout the world. |
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So I think the point that's been underlying my conversations with DH (which Herr and Frau Ratzinger helped to clarify ) is that hands-on, living, "real learning" -- in both its religious and secular aspects -- is for everyone, including the parents. How can we create life-long learners, and life-long seekers of God, if we don't model these behaviors ourselves as adults? It doesn't make sense to think that we could. And yet, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's had long stretches of neglecting my own liturgical and personal prayer life, out of a misplaced desire to give the children something or other that's extra-special. Of course, this backfires... I get burned out and grumpy... and when Mass comes around, all I have to offer them is a booklet that summarizes the readings and applies them to a hypothetical situation involving little Freddy and his bicycle (or some such thing)... whereas, if I'd taken the time to meditate on the readings myself, I'd be able to explain them in my own words, and point out how they might relate to real circumstances in our family's life.
So this is leading me to add another ground rule, to add to the first one:
1) we start with the liturgy, and
2) we start with the grown-ups getting their own spiritual lives in order.
Everything else follows from these beginnings... prayers, Mass, catechesis, apostolic works, crafts and cookies... according to our particular circumstances. It seems to me that if we keep things ordered this way, then our activities will truly be both Church-centered and family-centered, and our "domestic church" will be worthy of the name.
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JennGM
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Eleanor wrote:
momwise wrote:
We know the core of the Liturgy is mass, specifically Sunday mass, and through the Domestic Church's presence on Sunday, the theme, the readings, the Gospel and the Sacrifice itself are carried home to the "little" churches and then out to the community!! That is so awesome to ponder isn't it?
Each family has a charism (why can't I spell that?) for that evangelization to be most effective. God uses one Liturgy and millions of families to accomplish literally a gazillion little missions for Him throughout the world. |
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I didn't get around to acknowledging Gwen's great post, so thanks for bringing it out again!
Eleanor wrote:
So I think the point that's been underlying my conversations with DH (which Herr and Frau Ratzinger helped to clarify ) is that hands-on, living, "real learning" -- in both its religious and secular aspects -- is for everyone, including the parents. How can we create life-long learners, and life-long seekers of God, if we don't model these behaviors ourselves as adults? It doesn't make sense to think that we could. And yet, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's had long stretches of neglecting my own liturgical and personal prayer life, out of a misplaced desire to give the children something or other that's extra-special. Of course, this backfires... I get burned out and grumpy... and when Mass comes around, all I have to offer them is a booklet that summarizes the readings and applies them to a hypothetical situation involving little Freddy and his bicycle (or some such thing)... whereas, if I'd taken the time to meditate on the readings myself, I'd be able to explain them in my own words, and point out how they might relate to real circumstances in our family's life.
So this is leading me to add another ground rule, to add to the first one:
1) we start with the liturgy, and
2) we start with the grown-ups getting their own spiritual lives in order.
Everything else follows from these beginnings... prayers, Mass, catechesis, apostolic works, crafts and cookies... according to our particular circumstances. It seems to me that if we keep things ordered this way, then our activities will truly be both Church-centered and family-centered, and our "domestic church" will be worthy of the name. |
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Couldn't have said it better. 
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guitarnan
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I agree! Eleanor, my daughter and I had this very discussion today...in fewer words, but the essence was the same. Parents have to walk the walk, not only in faith matters but in every value they want their children to understand and, hopefully, take to heart.
I taught CCD for several years and served as a parish DRE for two years. The hardest, hardest part was watching parents drop their kids off at CCD (Mass? What's that?) and then heading off for a morning coffee while the kids "learned" their faith.
Eleanor, you're so right. If the grownups don't get their acts together, the children may reject baby, bathwater and bathtub.
Isn't this thread just lovely?!
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momwise
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Eleanor wrote:
I get burned out and grumpy... and when Mass comes around, all I have to offer them is a booklet that summarizes the readings and applies them to a hypothetical situation involving little Freddy and his bicycle (or some such thing)... whereas, if I'd taken the time to meditate on the readings myself, I'd be able to explain them in my own words, and point out how they might relate to real circumstances in our family's life.
So this is leading me to add another ground rule, to add to the first one:
1) we start with the liturgy, and
2) we start with the grown-ups getting their own spiritual lives in order.
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Yes Eleanor!! The right relationship of the parents first to God and to each other brings the perfect order to the family: God>>>spouses>>>c hildren>>>commun ity. The Liturgy comes in for God to relate his message to us, then us to our children, and then the family takes it to the world!
To tie in that comment about the "charism" of each family, those little special touches are the spark of evangelism to all those whom that family touches. It's the Holy Spirit bringing the Church to those who are searching through the way He sees is best.
For one family it's music, for one it's art or crafts, or food or drink, or writing or reading, or....??? The point is it's perfect only for the family who receives the graces to do it. And then there are the "seasons" when new activities take the place of the old and that too is all according to God's plan to save souls.
Joanne Bogle has wonderful article about evangelizing through the Liturgical Year. It has always been a main influence (since I read it in 98 or 99), and having had a major conversion of my dh last year in some part due to the cyclical nature of the Liturgy and it's pouring out from the Church into the home year after year (after loooong years  ) I know she has hit on something really important...the human heart longs for Liturgy.
Nancy, I mainly print out Open Wednesday's commentary for the upcoming Sunday and read it aloud at dinner on Friday or Saturday, along with the readings. I also print the activity page and pick a couple of doable discussions or projects, usually something quick. There have been some great visual reminders we have made and then put up on the walls for the following week, such as handprints (can't remember what was on them), footprints, or just excerpts from the Psalm or Gospel Antiphon. I also go to Catholic Culture often and print the daily Collect for night prayers.
Such interesting stuff here everybody!
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 11 2010 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
To tie in that comment about the "charism" of each family, those little special touches are the spark of evangelism to all those whom that family touches. It's the Holy Spirit bringing the Church to those who are searching through the way He sees is best.
For one family it's music, for one it's art or crafts, or food or drink, or writing or reading, or....??? The point is it's perfect only for the family who receives the graces to do it. And then there are the "seasons" when new activities take the place of the old and that too is all according to God's plan to save souls. |
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I'm glad you fleshed that out. Now I see, the sharing of talents is the way for us to learn and to also share!
momwise wrote:
| Joanne Bogle has wonderful article about evangelizing through the Liturgical Year. It has always been a main influence (since I read it in 98 or 99), and having had a major conversion of my dh last year in some part due to the cyclical nature of the Liturgy and it's pouring out from the Church into the home year after year (after loooong years ) I know she has hit on something really important...the human heart longs for Liturgy. |
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Was it an article by Joanna Bogle? I wonder if we can find it...maybe it's on Adoremus? I'll have to track that down.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 11 2010 at 8:58am | IP Logged
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Eleanor wrote:
DH and I have recently been talking a lot about homeschooling and the faith, and the various questions and challenges that typically come up. We both feel that Catholic family life is typically portrayed in a way that puts too much direct focus on the children. Of course, the children's needs do occupy a lot of the parents' time, but that doesn't mean that they're at the center of everything. It seems to us that this is in some ways more of a secular, progressivist idea... i.e., that the purpose of family life is to give parents the opportunity to turn their children into perfect human beings, by following all the "right" theories and methods. The bankruptcy of this approach is obvious, and its results are all around us.
Of course, the real reason we have families is to help everyone get to heaven, and to cooperate with one another and the outside world to help build God's kingdom. In this task, we all have equal dignity. The children shouldn't be pushed aside as if they were obstacles to the parents reaching their full potential, but neither should the parents find it necessary to put their own spiritual and personal growth on the back burner, for the sake of trying to create some kind of idyllic childhood scenario (which, even if we could attain it, might actually be counterproductive in the long run). |
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This has been a long thought process here, too. Child-led isn't what we want in our household either. It should be family-centered (as MicheleQ has been saying for years!).
I was going to continue to flesh out some of the outline if people would still like that. But holler if you think not.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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stacykay
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| Posted: March 11 2010 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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Please, don't stop!!! I have been printing out everything and all of the incredible links!! This is exactly what we need, here (in my home!, I should have added!). And many, many thanks, for what you all have contributed, thus far!!! 
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Liturgy as the basis of our lives
