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stellamaris
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| To me trying to find a vision for my family seems so un-simple. |
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It is easy to think that simple or simplicity equals easy...but it doesn't, does it?
I'm thinking here (it's the middle of the night...3 a.m. or so and I'm awake...so what else to do but post a comment here?  ) about my original "vision" for my family. It was pretty grandiose! The children would be perfect, brilliant, and admired by all! The house would look like something out of a magazine! My husband would be financially successful, work like a dog, rise to the top of his field, and yet have plenty of time to be with the family!  Well, maybe not quite that extreme, but not so far away! The reality is so much worse...and infinitely better!
I am now trying to approach the "what's my vision" question by identifying VALUES that I want to develop in my family, not so much schedules or goals of a more definite nature. So, I'm brainstorming here in no particular order:
**respect and love for one another
**an active play life (which, I must say, we are sorely lacking), that is time out-of-doors biking, walking, or other family-oriented active play
**sharing of the work load, all working together, teamwork
**God and our faith as the center of our days...family prayer and liturgical celebrations
**home as a "base"...set mealtimes, Sunday set aside as a family day,traditional seasonal celebrations...to provide the older children with structure and stability even as their lives get crazier and more "out there"
I guess I'm seeing "vision" in more sort of general terms, then I'll worry about specifics later. If I start thinking about specifics first, I won't get anywhere because I'll just tell myself, "It's impossible!" God does not call us to do the impossible, however, so I think my "vision" quest is all about lining my priorities up with His in a practical way.
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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CatholicMommy
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Quote:
**respect and love for one another
**an active play life (which, I must say, we are sorely lacking), that is time out-of-doors biking, walking, or other family-oriented active play
**sharing of the work load, all working together, teamwork
**God and our faith as the center of our days...family prayer and liturgical celebrations
**home as a "base"...set mealtimes, Sunday set aside as a family day,traditional seasonal celebrations...to provide the older children with structure and stability even as their lives get crazier and more "out there"
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This idea is definitely where my thoughts lie in regards to a vision for my family. When I look back at my original vision of family life, the only details I saw were mom, dad and kids - welcoming dad home with hugs, comfortable home, and all of the above listed values. That vision had to change (I'm a single mom), but when I look at the foundation of what my details meant, the vision hasn't really changed at all. I just need to make decisions to support that vision of a comfortable home, full of love and respect and responsibility and health in every aspect (spiritual, physical, emotional). Those things can be accomplished no matter the actual situation - it's just that the solutions will look different in each situation.
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Willa
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teachingmyown wrote:
I found his discussion of recalling what our vision was and trying to find a way back to that almost depressing. I am the type of person who has always flown by the seat of my pants. So, while I had an overall idea of what life was supposed to look like, I wouldn't say that I, or dh and I, mapped out a vision for our life. When I started out, I hadn't even heard of homeschooling and just fell into it out of necessity.
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Me too, so I can relate. When my oldest kids were small, I have to admit it, my "vision" was to keep them alive and relatively healthy and then hand them off to good schools and so on so I would have time to do "my stuff" and more or less be there for them to come home to. When my husband told me he wanted to homeschool it completely turned my world over.
All the same, Molly, I bet you have a vision -- just as I do. It doesn't have to be complicated or detailed. Mine is simply to raise saints. It doesn't even matter to me per se (I mean, it would hurt my feelings, but it wouldn't really "matter" in a real sense) if they get sidetracked along the way and cause me sorrow -- I just want them to end up in heaven.
This is not very easy for me to break down into the day to day, though. What is contributing to my vision? What is not? For instance, I don't want to raise so-called "good Catholics" if that doesn't contribute to them getting to heaven, if they start thinking that their "goodness" is what they are giving God. That would be missing the point.
So that's why I'm in this discussion. I liked what the author said about how clutter interferes with both childrens' AND mom's focus. I can see how that works -- how having to manage all our "stuff" -- not just physical stuff but information and so on -- ends up making us more stereotypical than we are. That is, it aggravates our natural tendencies.
I also liked his focus on the behavior types and how chronic stress can slide them over to dysfunction. To me, that seemed to relate to temperament. A choleric person could become rigid and irritable and a troublemaker; a phlegmatic person could become too self-indulgent and focused on appetite; a sanguine person could become unfocused and scattered and giddy about following fashions; a melancholic can become withdrawn and depressed, or else somewhat OCD. Or that is what I'm thinking. I can see it to some extent operating in my family. I'm a melancholic-phlegmatic so personal comfort and withdrawing into daydreams/books or else sterile organizing are my "self-medication", personally.
He also points out that normal, inevitable stress is healthy and necessary. Which is a good thing to remember -- a lot of us have large families and they say every new baby is a "stress" -- but in that case, a healthy and important one. But perhaps, all the more reason to make sure the other areas of life are no more cluttered than they have to be.
He also mentions that we don't need or want constant harmony and perfection. Kids will get stressed. There will be less good times in a family. That's not the problem -- the problem is making it more complicated than it needs to be, and not allowing "spaces" in time or place.
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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Beautiful post Willa!
Willa wrote:
| All the same, Molly, I bet you have a vision -- just as I do. It doesn't have to be complicated or detailed. Mine is simply to raise saints. It doesn't even matter to me per se (I mean, it would hurt my feelings, but it wouldn't really "matter" in a real sense) if they get sidetracked along the way and cause me sorrow -- I just want them to end up in heaven. |
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You are right, I do have a vision. I want children who love God and their faith; children who are intelligent beings able to rise above the popular trends and beliefs of the day; children who are kind and empathetic.
Willa wrote:
| This is not very easy for me to break down into the day to day, though. |
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This is my problem! I don't know how to do this! After 18 years, I still don't know how to *make* it happen. I have a vague idea, but I honestly find myself wondering what life looks like in other homes because I am sure it isn't supposed to look like what it does here. 
Willa wrote:
| I'm a melancholic-phlegmatic so personal comfort and withdrawing into daydreams/books or else sterile organizing are my "self-medication", personally. |
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Yeah, that's me, except not so much the sterile organizing part.
Caroline- I love your list, and you are so right about simplicity not being easy. In fact, it is really the opposite. It is much easier to throw money at our problems: more toys, more lessons, bigger house, more school books, etc. Simplicity requires us to think.
I am just trying to figure how to think through this with all these lovely children constantly needing me.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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teachingmyown
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Another post, the other was getting long, and I am changing focus a little.
How do we handle it when our vision doesn't fit with that of our spouse? I love my dh dearly. I am very blessed to have him. But, honestly, we differ in a lot of things and I find myself giving in to his way and losing some of what I always thought I would have.
He is gone so many hours every week, so on the weekends he wants to sleep in and putz around. He is a talker, and a technology guy. So, an entire Saturday can be *lost* to sleeping in, cooking and chatting, and time on the computer or video games. I wanted to be an "up at 8am, do chores, and go out and do something" family. I mean, my dh has never been to the National Zoo! We don't go out and do things and we don't get much done here either. So, out of love for him, and for peace, I have changed my vision. But it still crops up in my mind at times.
There are other differences that I *live with* out of deference to dh. He doesn't do story time, or baths, or brush teeth. He is from a background that sends kids to bed and that's that. There isn't a lot of cuddly family time, or hugs and kisses. I always thought we would have that.
So, how do I reconcile these differences? How do I make a home with my vision while respecting dh's personality? I no longer compare, or fret about how he could be better. Goodness knows, I could be so much better and he never complains about me!
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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hylabrook1
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I can't wait for the library hold! Ordering today! This discussion is sooo good, but I need to read to be a better participant. Learning a lot from the rest of you...
Peace,
Nancy
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Gloria JMJ
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Molly, I relate with you on soooo many levels. It isn't even  . I guess my vision, now that I really think of it, is the same Saturday fun family,( because that is what I wanted to different than my mom ) yet dh's health and finances have curtailed that vision so much that I forgot all about it  . This discussion is very helpful and has given me much to think about, now if only I had time to think
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| I am just trying to figure how to think through this with all these lovely children constantly needing me. |
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LeeAnn
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Re: Chapter 1 "Why Simplify?"
"Does childhood do something, other than mark the time until adulthood?" p. 12
"These stresses distract from the focus or 'task' of childhood: an emerging, developing sense of self." p. 33
I keep thinking getting hung up on whether or not I agree with the author about the purpose of childhood. How does this "protection of childhood" square with Gatto's examples of children being given real work and responsibilities from a young age?
Given that the author is a child therapist, his definition is a very psychological sort of answer, of course. What other kinds of answers could be given to the question, "What is the focus or task of childhood?"
On a more practical note, I liked his methods of reducing toys by 75% (p. 20) and his critique of toys and suggestions for different types of toys that children should have (play cloths, rope, clothespins, paper, crayons, dress-up clothes in addition to the 25% of things already owned that were kept: building toys, dolls/figures/stuffies, creative materials, figures/ toy houses, etc.). Although he doesn't say what ages for these...I am thinking ages 5-10?
Even the reduction of a child's books to "one or two of the current favorites"! That is difficult to imagine! (p. 21) I am hoping there are some examples further in the book of going through this material simplification process with older children....
ETA: See previous long discussion of Gatto's "Weapons of Mass Instruction" here.
http://4real.thenetsmith.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=28149&KW=ga tto
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LeeAnn
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teachingmyown wrote:
| He is gone so many hours every week, so on the weekends he wants to sleep in and putz around. He is a talker, and a technology guy. So, an entire Saturday can be *lost* to sleeping in, cooking and chatting, and time on the computer or video games. I wanted to be an "up at 8am, do chores, and go out and do something" family. |
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This is our family too, albeit I am happier to get the chores done and then just stay home and read. My DH's vision for our family is sort of split. On the one hand, he'd like to be like everyone else we know: have the money for a good life and so he works looong hours every week. We have a lot of old debt to pay, so there isn't much choice about that! :( But on the other hand, if allowed himself to articulate his dream life--his vision of what our family life could be--it would be the same as mine: to live somewhere more remote, with a few acres, to support ourselves with his carpentry skills and my creative talents. But that's so far from where we are now it's probably too depressing for him to think about! We are stuck with his job until debts are paid. We are stuck with this house (which costs far too much!) until the market improves. At some point, I think the stress of this life may drive us to make some drastic changes. Right now we are just treading water to keep up with the waves.
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Willa
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LeeAnn wrote:
I keep thinking getting hung up on whether or not I agree with the author about the purpose of childhood. How does this "protection of childhood" square with Gatto's examples of children being given real work and responsibilities from a young age? Given that the author is a child therapist, his definition is a very psychological sort of answer, of course. What other kinds of answers could be given to the question, "What is the focus or task of childhood? |
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Good question! Something for me to think about during the day...
My knee-jerk take is that though the emphasis is different, Gatto and the author (can't remember his name atm) have things in common:
1. "Too much" is not good -- Gatto would probably think it makes you dependent and passive, while the author of SP thinks it makes you anxious and stressed -- maybe both are a little true?
2. Life shouldn't be a glass bubble -- of course, this is Gatto's main emphasis, but SP's author also says that ups and downs of "real life" are important (he quotes Helen Keller to the effect that character is forged in the kiln of life, something like that). But neither should it be right in the cultural toxic zone either -- Gatto talks about meaningful work but also a strong family base and culture.
3. Home should be a "home base" -- Gatto believes that children should grow up in the context of a strong, extended family -- sure, venture out, but work through things and do things with that background support. Obviously, this is a main emphasis of SP too.
There are probably more --and I didn't really answer the question of "what is the focus/goal of childhood" but I have to go get the day started. 
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Willa
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teachingmyown
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LeeAnn wrote:
| This is our family too, albeit I am happier to get the chores done and then just stay home and read. |
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This is me now! Unless it is really nice out, I don't even want to leave the house. But I do want to feel like my day "counted" for something by the end of it.
I don't think this author and Gatto are necessarily at odds. First of all, this author is talking about the artificial maturity of kids. Gatto wants children to mature naturally and not be held back by artificial institutions. They are both reacting to the absurd way American children are raised, absolutely no responsibility even as young adults, but all the freedom and privileges of adults.
If we remove the trappings of materialism and busyness, and even the access to the adult world too soon, then our children will be free to think and mature into who they really are not who they think they should be. I would say that my children are much more competent and mature than their public school peers although they aren't as worldly.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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LeeAnn
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Simplicity Parenting's author is Kim John Payne, who I suggest we refer to as KJP for simplicity's sake. :D
On page 8 where KJP is discussing PTSD children and his realization that children in average, non-war-torn countries displayed similar symptoms, he writes:
"I realized that for both groups the sanctity of childhood had been breached. Adult life was flooding in unchecked. Privy to their parents' fears, drives, ambitions, and the very fast pace of their lives, the children were busy trying to construct their own boundaries, their own level of safety in behaviors that weren't ultimately helpful. These children were suffering from a different kind of war: the undeclared war on childhood."
This part really resonates with me but I wonder if "childhood" equates with "innocence" in KJP's mind?
(I peeked ahead into a couple other chapters~~excited about what I see! :))
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LeeAnn
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teachingmyown wrote:
| I don't think this author and Gatto are necessarily at odds. First of all, this author is talking about the artificial maturity of kids. Gatto wants children to mature naturally and not be held back by artificial institutions. They are both reacting to the absurd way American children are raised, absolutely no responsibility even as young adults, but all the freedom and privileges of adults. |
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Good points!
Here is another good quote: "Stress that is damaging is either too large or too constant to move beyond. ... CSR is characterized not by the severity of a traumatic event, but rather by the consistency of small stresses."
Perhaps in the past, thinking of our archetypal 12yo sea-captain :), the reason children generally could cope and overcome such challenges was in part due to the lack of distractions (the small daily stresses of modern life: too many things, too much to do, no consistency in schedule and too much information) in pre-industrial revolution societies.
Of course, he leaves out the whole moral breakdown of society contributing to this, but that is another matter.
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SusanMc
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Jumping in here. I think the author is careful throughout the book to make the distinction between eliminating toxic overload in the child's environment and creating an artificially happy/happy rainbow world. I LIKE the fact that he emphasizes that this balance is for each family to decide--the key is making a conscious decision and not just letting things happen as they may.
On my page 10 (I'm reading an e-book) he says of the original child: "His parents brought a new sense of awareness to their parenting, and that continued to serve them. It became the new measure of what did or didn't make sense in their lives."
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Waverley
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SusanMc wrote:
| On my page 10 (I'm reading an e-book) he says of the original child: "His parents brought a new sense of awareness to their parenting, and that continued to serve them. It became the new measure of what did or didn't make sense in their lives." |
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I think this point supports the ideas mentioned above about determining your family's values. Life requires us to make decisions everyday, sometimes on the spot. Having clearly defined family values allows you to make those decisions in a way that are in keeping with your family's values. For example, if you and your DH have made a decision that new toys/clothes/curriculum cannot be purchased until one of that same item leaves the house - you can keep this in mind and respond accordingly when you are faced with a purchasing decision.
One thing that has worked very well for our family is that each year DH and I sit down and reflect on the previous year (what we liked and what we didn't) and discuss our hopes for the coming year. We write it all down. We include concrete goals like saving X amount or completing a home improvement project. We also talk about our family's values and whether we are living those values. We write down both the values and ways we can work to live those values in the coming year - family prayer time, adoration, etc.
This process has been very helpful for us. It is much more fun to save or work toward something together. It also makes both of us feel more invested in the decision being made in our home regardless of who is responsible for the actual task.
I hope this helps someone. An older couple encouraged us to do this when we first married and I have thanked them many times over the years for their advice.
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Waverley
wife to Dh for 19 years, dd (16), dd (11), dd (8), ds (6), dd (4), dd (9-13-1996)
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Marcia
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waverley,
we do the yearly evaluation every year too! We began it when I started working from home. Then when I became a SAHM it became like a little "work" evaluation for me. we tailor it on the idea that we each evaluate ourselves and then share it with the other....then we begin to see how we can help the other implement those ideas.
we usually try to add another prayer to our prayer time...that the children would be able to memorize. One year it was the Salve Regina in latin...one year the Guardian Angel prayer....it's been fun to look through past evals and see how we've grown as a couple/family.
now that I've been *home* for 10 years you'd think we'd have a nice organization going on....but still working.
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Marcia
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Connections
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Let me first admit that I started the book in the middle. I read the Chapter on Environment first and LOVED the inspiration (and permission) to declutter toys. (Still can't seem to agree with decluttering books, though I do see his point about consuming books and slowing down reading).
When I then went on to read the first chapter it felt flat to me. I was SO wanting something more spiritually based. (Not that I expected to get that. I understood it was not written from a Catholic or Christian perspective, just that I felt it would be so much richer with that perspective.)
So, I am looking forward to the discussions where you all can fill in that perspective!
The questions about a parenting vision were troubling for me, as well. First of all, I think any visions I had changed dramatically when we decided to homeschool and I decided to be a SAHM (originally I planned to go back to work when the boys started school). Then, things changed AGAIN when we decided to be open to life.
Truly, the idea of focusing on a vision feels contrary to following what God wants for me and my family. It almost feels like I am trying to control too much.
I did walk away with a focus on the importance of working on and developing relationships- with God and with one another. Making time for these relationships instead of hurrying through childhood. Permission to back off (and implicitly affirming the counter-culture decision to homeschool) on too much, too fast, too young- academically and with outside the home activities.
I would love to hear others ideas about how we apply his principles to our homeschooling families that are open to life.
______________
Tracey
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teachingmyown
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I think that your vision could, in fact, be being open to God's will, making room for His grace, and so on.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Simplicity Parenting: Intro and Ch. 1
