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CandaceC
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Sarah M wrote:
"Simple" does not just mean less stuff. It means less noise and less attachment to our own desires so that we can better serve the will of God.
In short, simplicity means less of me and more of Him. |
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This is my prayer!!
__________________
Candace - wife to David since 2000...mommy to Hannah (Feb. 2002), Emily (April 2003) and Caleb (March 2005)
His Mercy Is New
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KackyK
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I love reading your posts ladies!
I wanted to add, my copy came and my dc saw the book on the table. My oldest dd said "So, sounds like we're losing toys again!" 
Then when I said it's more than just toys that we're talking about here, they all turned and left in silence!
I left it at that!
I'm entering those last 2 months of pregnancy when that nesting feeling is overwhelming to me. I look around me and see things that "NEED" to be done. That's what I see. I tried to tell my oldest dd this (she is 14) and she laughed. She said she didn't see it. When we both looked at the kitchen we saw different things. She saw someone had a played a game, we just had lunch and the 1 1/2yrold was wandering around playing. I saw a huge mess that no one was moving towards cleaning. A game no one bothered to clean up, food that everyone knows (or should) where it goes when you are done, and a toddler that gets into every cabinet. But she saw the joy (she didn't express it that way, but when I look back to our conversation, I think that is what she was saying) that had and was happening in the kitchen. And all I saw was a disaster that I couldn't get picked up well because of all my prego complaints (back, belly, etc) and felt like a failure. So yes, there is stuff, but it seems it can be used for simple joy or it can cause a crazy hormone person like me to unfortunately be blind to the joy and see failure, and therefore ofcourse making satan jump for joy!
Anyhoo...I've only read the intro so far!
__________________
KackyK
Mom to 8 - 3 dd, 5ds & 4 babes in heaven
Beginning With the Assumption
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amyable
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KackyK wrote:
I wanted to add, my copy came and my dc saw the book on the table. My oldest dd said "So, sounds like we're losing toys again!"
Then when I said it's more than just toys that we're talking about here, they all turned and left in silence! |
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KackyK wrote:
| So yes, there is stuff, but it seems it can be used for simple joy or it can cause a crazy hormone person like me to unfortunately be blind to the joy and see failure, and therefore ofcourse making satan jump for joy! |
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Good point Kacky...I jump back and forth on this, between thinking "I should keep the stuff, I just need to change my attitude and see the joy," and pondering Christ's words to 'pluck out your eye if it causes you to sin.' If it's OK to pluck one's own eye out, how much more OK must it be to get rid of 90% of the stuff that gathers in our homes if it is in large part helping you to act uncharitably/impatiently?
Pondering...
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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teachingmyown
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I am trying to keep up here! I read the intro last night.
A couple of random thoughts about points already made:
Nina and Willa- I love your train of thought about finding the simplicity amongst the limitations of our situation. I don't have to have ten barbies on the floor, but I do have to have seven snow suits, seven pairs of boots and gloves, seven hats, and seven coats. I do have to have seven lighter coats because Virginia weather is crazy. So, as much as I want to get it out of my way (maybe move somewhere warm!) I need to learn how to deal with it and find peace in this wonderful place God has put me for now.
Kacky- I was going to post the other day that my kids play *all* day! They don't see the mess that I see. They don't see the urgency of putting things away. I am constantly at them and they can't stay on track. Obviously, I am missing the joy that they see in life. But where is the balance. My dd13 sounds like your dd. She just doesn't see it, or care. Is there a place where we can meet? Do simplicity mean that we only have enough that when it is ALL left out, it doesn't make me scream?!
Detachment- I don't feel that I *love* my stuff or want stuff for the sake of having it. For me, it is more of a security thing. I keep so much for the "what if" times. "What if" one of the girls can wear this dress that is pretty worn out but would be good for playing in? "What if" I get pregnant again, it would be frivolous to get rid of the maternity clothes, baby clothes, baby swing, etc. So, for me it needs to be an issue of trust. Trust that God will provide, and that my generosity now will be returned when I am in need.
Okay, I am sure I had more to say but there is so much going on here. I did order Happy Are You Poor, too.
Thanks Ladies!
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Connections
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I started a thread on keepsakes at Tea and Conversation. Please join me there with your thoughts.
________
Tracey
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Marcia
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Okay I've read the intro and the first chapter. I do feel good that I have some parameters in place to keep the chaos down, but realize that I do let a lot of chaos go on in my mind. I think keeping the amount of media to a minimum is so important and that isn't a problem for the kids....they don't even really know that you can watch things on tv that you don't personally choose....
I think my struggle will be saying no to some of the great things that are offered to homeschoolers. That's always my personal balance struggle. There are great co-ops and classes and storytimes and book groups and music lessons and clubs....I want to do it all. But trying to balance four children at these things! Whew. It gets stressful always going everyday.
Over the last week we've been home with very little responsibilities outside of the house. The kids have been so happy and my husband has said that I have been more pleasant! Yikes! That means that I might need to be home more too!
I'm looking forward to more of his practical advice.
I like this: the four pillars of TOO MUCH
too much stuff
too many choices
too much information
too fast
OH and I must say I liked his comments about meditation. I know he was referencing Buddhist monks, but I think Trappists could be put in the same category. (pg31) Time praying and in quiet has measurable, replicable effects on the mind and brain. Feelings of joy and happiness were increased. I have noticed my own children being happier when they've spent time in silence at Atrium or in Adoration. I hope that those experiences have balanced out the craziness I provide them will too many lessons, classes, etc. I think I see me doing more Adoration and less classes in the future with them.
__________________
Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
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SuzanneG
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This conversation is such an example of the richness of our Faith!
Marcia wrote:
| Time praying and in quiet has measurable, replicable effects on the mind and brain. Feelings of joy and happiness were increased. I have noticed my own children being happier when they've spent time in silence at Atrium or in Adoration. |
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This is a great point, Marica!
In The Ways of Mental Prayer, by Rev. Dom Vitalis LeHodey talks about the Advantages of Mental Prayer:
Quote:
| Sin has drawn us aside from our end and turned us towards the creature. The remedy is mental prayer, which detaches us from obstacles, and unites us to what helps us. It detaches us from sin, from perishable goods, from the world, above all, from ourselves; and it unites us to the one and only God. |
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He cites the impact that Mental Prayer has on DETACHMENT. He lists 4 levels of detachment:
1. Detachment from SIN
2. Detachment from PERISHABLE GOODS
3. Detachment from the WORLD
4. Detachment from OURSELVES
Quote:
| FINALLY, Mental Prayer unites us to God. Detached from all things, the soul is no longer held back by anything; it is so thoroughly emptied that God hastens to fill it with Himself, there to establish his kingdom. |
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It's amazing something as simple as daily prayer is connected to this concept of Simplicity and Detachment. Fidelity to prayer will manifest itself in detachment from sin...we know that, of course.
But, then it's interesting that THEN, .....we can detach from the other things....#2-perishable goods, #3-the world, and #4-ourselves. More focus on God and on prayer, always means less focus on self...sin...disorder...things....chaos....worldly things....material items.
Discernment for detachment requires GRACE through PRAYER.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Nina Murphy
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SeaStar wrote:
Nina-
In the book the author does tackle the situation of families who lives are truly hectic with circumstances they can't always control. He does speak about how you can start in very, very small ways to establish more patterns and rhythms to help deal with these "out of control" feelings. I thought the examples he gave were very helpful. |
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Fantastic. Thank you so much for posting that, Melinda. I must say I am quite curious now!
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Nina Murphy
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KackyK wrote:
I love reading your posts ladies!
I wanted to add, my copy came and my dc saw the book on the table. My oldest dd said "So, sounds like we're losing toys again!"
Then when I said it's more than just toys that we're talking about here, they all turned and left in silence!
I left it at that!
I'm entering those last 2 months of pregnancy when that nesting feeling is overwhelming to me. I look around me and see things that "NEED" to be done. That's what I see. I tried to tell my oldest dd this (she is 14) and she laughed. She said she didn't see it. When we both looked at the kitchen we saw different things. She saw someone had a played a game, we just had lunch and the 1 1/2yrold was wandering around playing. I saw a huge mess that no one was moving towards cleaning. A game no one bothered to clean up, food that everyone knows (or should) where it goes when you are done, and a toddler that gets into every cabinet. But she saw the joy (she didn't express it that way, but when I look back to our conversation, I think that is what she was saying) that had and was happening in the kitchen. And all I saw was a disaster that I couldn't get picked up well because of all my prego complaints (back, belly, etc) and felt like a failure. So yes, there is stuff, but it seems it can be used for simple joy or it can cause a crazy hormone person like me to unfortunately be blind to the joy and see failure, and therefore ofcourse making satan jump for joy!
Anyhoo...I've only read the intro so far! |
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Oh my gosh...this is so me. This is so us!
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Nina Murphy
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Sarah M wrote:
Willa wrote:
For example, he speaks to a woman who is living with her in-laws. Her father-in-law in particular is moody and has his little arbitrary quirks. She wants to live a devout life and longs for the simplicity of the convent, but de Sales says that God has placed her in her situation and that living that life is the way to holiness for her.
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This, I think, is the heart of simplicity for Catholics. Being detached from our own will, and simply accepting whatever comes up during the course of our day as coming from the hand of God. Certainly decluttering our homes and simplifying our children's schedules will give our hearts and minds more "breathing room"-- always a good thing, and something that will create more time and space to respond to God's will on a day to day basis. But, to my mind, simplifying an environment or a schedule is only a tool toward simplicity of spirit, it's not simplicity itself.
"Simple" does not just mean less stuff. It means less noise and less attachment to our own desires so that we can better serve the will of God.
In short, simplicity means less of me and more of Him.
I suspect that any kind of drive to simplify for simplicity's sake may be unhealthy. We are then attaching ourselves to a certain kind of physical environment- a sin of the senses, right? Here's where we can take this book (from a non-Catholic perspective) and infuse it with our faith for a richer, deeper meaning.
Ooh. I can already tell that this is going to be a good discussion, ladies.  |
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This is just beautiful.
The question is: does all of the stuff (and the lifestyle choices like our meal choices, etc.) IMPEDE our ability to pray or do His Will so that we can grow in this virtue of simplicity. As St. Augustine (my absolute favorite) said, "the peace of all things lies in the tranquility of order".
So that is where I get fanatical in wanting to live like that nun! I want to have peace so badly and it hinges on order!
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Nina Murphy
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teachingmyown wrote:
I am trying to keep up here! I read the intro last night.
A couple of random thoughts about points already made:
Nina and Willa- I love your train of thought about finding the simplicity amongst the limitations of our situation. I don't have to have ten barbies on the floor, but I do have to have seven snow suits, seven pairs of boots and gloves, seven hats, and seven coats. I do have to have seven lighter coats because Virginia weather is crazy. So, as much as I want to get it out of my way (maybe move somewhere warm!) I need to learn how to deal with it and find peace in this wonderful place God has put me for now.
Kacky- I was going to post the other day that my kids play *all* day! They don't see the mess that I see. They don't see the urgency of putting things away. I am constantly at them and they can't stay on track. Obviously, I am missing the joy that they see in life. But where is the balance. My dd13 sounds like your dd. She just doesn't see it, or care. Is there a place where we can meet? Do simplicity mean that we only have enough that when it is ALL left out, it doesn't make me scream?!
Detachment- I don't feel that I *love* my stuff or want stuff for the sake of having it. For me, it is more of a security thing. I keep so much for the "what if" times. "What if" one of the girls can wear this dress that is pretty worn out but would be good for playing in? "What if" I get pregnant again, it would be frivolous to get rid of the maternity clothes, baby clothes, baby swing, etc. So, for me it needs to be an issue of trust. Trust that God will provide, and that my generosity now will be returned when I am in need.
Okay, I am sure I had more to say but there is so much going on here. I did order Happy Are You Poor, too.
Thanks Ladies! |
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Yes, and yes, and yes! Me too on all of those points!
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Connections
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I just started a dialog (via email for now) with my DH on this topic.
I realize it is important for me to get his buy-in and support on some of these things.
I am hoping to discuss the book with him, too.
Anyone else going to involve DH?
Tracey
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Marcia
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me. I read several pages aloud at bedtime last nite. I hope to get him to read some of it himself.
__________________
Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
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Gloria JMJ
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I'm sure my DH will be thoroughly pleased to know that I am finally going to fill some trash bags  .
Seriously, he's my minimalist and has been waiting years for me to embrace this philosophy.
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Smoothing Stones Holy Family Rosaries
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LucyP
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My husband has come to see how simplicity is better since we had children. He sees how hard life is for them already and how much easier it is with less - clutter/choice/stimulation. His mother is the queen of hoarders with an immense house to fill, and he has to a degree been the same - but over the past few years he has begun to try to find order and to cull his own books etc. I don't really see how - for how our family/home works - I could do anything without him!
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Mimip
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Connections wrote:
I, too, worry about "attaching", in an unhealthy way, to simplicity. (Thanks for mentioning the idea Nina and putting the concept into words Willa.)
For instance, my desire to declutter right now cannot take me away from the needs of my family. I cannot ignore my children all day in order to get things "in order". This is MY WILL- to have it done NOW. I need to fight that urge.
Then, when things are reorganized and decluttered, I need to detach from the desire that creeps in of having things look neat and tidy at all times. Not going to happen. That will just make me cranky and short tempered with my DC.
I think doing a little here and there as I can (and using my work time for prayer as well) is going to be important for me. Staying present to my children and my husband during the process will be key.
_____________
Tracey
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This is sooooooo me! My DH constantly reminds me that we have to live in the house not just stare at it.
And the copy still has not come from the library and alas no way for ILL!
What a wonderful discussion, following along and contemplating so very much that you all are talking about.
__________________
In Christ,
Mimi
Wife of 16 years to Tom, Mom of DD'00, DD'02, '04(in heaven) DS'05, DS'08 and DS '12
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Eleanor
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SuzanneG wrote:
He cites the impact that Mental Prayer has on DETACHMENT. He lists 4 levels of detachment:
1. Detachment from SIN
2. Detachment from PERISHABLE GOODS
3. Detachment from the WORLD
4. Detachment from OURSELVES
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Tell me I'm not the only one who saw the words "Perishable Goods" and got a mental image of all the stuff that's cluttering up my fridge. 
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drmommy
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Wow, what a great post. Since I had a HUGE drop in income from a change in life (having a disabled child  ..who is a BLESSING, by the way), I have had to really pare down. The first four years was super difficult...now I am sooo "in" to it! I have come to experience the freedom and fruits of decluttering things and lifestyle.
Just a note: we have some dear friends in which we were invited to their house for a BBQ. Man...was I super impressed...very, very neat and simple house and absolutely NO clutter. I started thinking, hmmm, I hope hubby doesn't think that we should be like this...I wonder how I can do that with my house..etc. Then, on the way home we were driving, and I remarked,"Wow, their house looks great! I wonder how we can achieve that? (I was comparing in my mind..not good). Hubby said, "didn't you notice they don't have one book or magazine, one book shelf, or any toys?" Wow, I did notice the children did not have any toys in their rooms or closets (my daughters told me also) when I went up to check on them (stop laughing..their closets were open ).
So, what may LOOK super, isn't always super. I came home loving my hubby just a little more, and appreciating my home and family a little more. One can walk into our house and know that it is LIVED in, and that we are Catholic, and love each other.
Now, I have to declutter my brain. It goes a mile a minute, and is full with work, running a business, homeschooling, activities, housework...you know ladies!
Great posts!!!
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LeeAnn
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drmommy wrote:
Hubby said, "didn't you notice they don't have one book or magazine, one book shelf, or any toys?" Wow, I did notice the children did not have any toys in their rooms or closets (my daughters told me also) when I went up to check on them (stop laughing..their closets were open ).
So, what may LOOK super, isn't always super. I came home loving my hubby just a little more, and appreciating my home and family a little more. One can walk into our house and know that it is LIVED in, and that we are Catholic, and love each other. |
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It seems as if you are saying that a lack of toys and books somehow correlates to this family not loving each other or not having a comfortable home. These are your close friends, so I can't imagine that to be true.
Maybe they've just gone digital for all their books?
Maybe they don't believe in the value of toys? I know there are families that really limit toys or get rid of them altogether once the children are old enough to do real work.
It's very easy for me to justify my attachment to material things by saying, "well, it makes our home looked lived in and full of love." I haven't gotten the book yet (coming Monday!), but does it discuss this idea at all? Do we really believe we would love our families any less if we had emptier rooms?
Do we judge poor families in the third world for not having enough things to satisfy our idea of what is good? No. Why then must a first world family necessarily live any differently if all the basics are covered?
The idea that having Stuff in our homes to show others that we love our families is one that I am suspicious of. Food and clothing and shelter, yes. But all the other stuff...even good things like books and to some extent toys? I think we have to judge these things with a more critical eye.
In a nutshell, Stuff does not equal Love.
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LeeAnn
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Quote:
This is a great point, Marica!
In The Ways of Mental Prayer, by Rev. Dom Vitalis LeHodey talks about the Advantages of Mental Prayer:
Quote:
| Sin has drawn us aside from our end and turned us towards the creature. The remedy is mental prayer, which detaches us from obstacles, and unites us to what helps us. It detaches us from sin, from perishable goods, from the world, above all, from ourselves; and it unites us to the one and only God. |
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He cites the impact that Mental Prayer has on DETACHMENT. He lists 4 levels of detachment:
1. Detachment from SIN
2. Detachment from PERISHABLE GOODS
3. Detachment from the WORLD
4. Detachment from OURSELVES
Quote:
| FINALLY, Mental Prayer unites us to God. Detached from all things, the soul is no longer held back by anything; it is so thoroughly emptied that God hastens to fill it with Himself, there to establish his kingdom. |
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It's amazing something as simple as daily prayer is connected to this concept of Simplicity and Detachment. Fidelity to prayer will manifest itself in detachment from sin...we know that, of course.
But, then it's interesting that THEN, .....we can detach from the other things....#2-perishable goods, #3-the world, and #4-ourselves. More focus on God and on prayer, always means less focus on self...sin...disorder...things....chaos....worldly things....material items.
Discernment for detachment requires GRACE through PRAYER. |
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So, Suzanne, is this something you are bringing with you on Sunday for me to take a look at? This looks like a really good book. In all the frenzy to get going on decluttering, yes, it is important to begin with prayer. "Decluttering for Christ"? Sounds kind of funny but really that is my intent--to create space and freedom to spend more time pursuing holiness rather than caring for stuff.
__________________
my four children are 17, 15, 11 & 8 - all now attend public school - we read many 4Real recommended books at home
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Simplicity Parenting
