| Author | |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
kbfsc wrote:
| 1. My almost 8-yo son is very intense. Somewhere along the way he has picked up an unbelievably disrespectful attitude which he demonstrates during those intense moments. Terrible things come out of his mouth. |
|
|
Tagging onto Jodie and Mackfam's scenarios....going into "emergency-mode" where you are focusing on this child for this situation temporarily....commit yourself to a give # of days/hours, etc......staying particularily close to them so that you can intervene immediately while in this phase where you are helping him learn a new way. Not going or doing anything where he can't be within earshot of you, so that you can step in at the slightest hint of losing control. This is only temporary....it's not forever, but helps you to problem solve and identify particularily senstive patterns for him.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
kbfsc
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 26 2009
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Nov 12 2009 at 9:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
This is so helpful, ladies, thank you! I am having a light bulb moment as I read your responses. All along I've been mostly concerned with addressing the attitude my son has been exhibiting. But addressing (or, more specifically, seeking to eliminate) the triggers! What a concept! I am really thankful for your insights.
This becomes a little challenging, however, when I realize that we are dealing with triggers several times an hour. For example, today we have our co-op, and he'll freak out when it's time to leave. That's not a trigger I can eliminate. I'll do my best to prepare him, give him the 5-minute warning... It's so frustrating when his 6-yo sister and 3-yo brother skip happily to the car and he's reduced to tears and stomping on the sidewalk.
Any thoughts about these daily, unavoidable triggers?
Thank you, thank you!
__________________
Kiera
happy mama of ds '02, dd '03, ds '06, dd '09 and little ones in heaven
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 11:09am | IP Logged
|
|
|
kbfsc wrote:
| For example, today we have our co-op, and he'll freak out when it's time to leave. That's not a trigger I can eliminate. I'll do my best to prepare him, give him the 5-minute warning... It's so frustrating when his 6-yo sister and 3-yo brother skip happily to the car and he's reduced to tears and stomping on the sidewalk. |
|
|
Does he LIKE/WANT to go to co-op? Or does he def. NOT want to go? That would change how I'd deal with this situation.
Does he have this fit whenever you have to leave to go somewhere? Or just for coop?
Are there actual reasons why is he having a fit?
::Being rushed?
::doesn't like to put on jacket?
::hates the car?
::doesn't like people rushing around?
::doesn't want to leave his play? doesn't want to leave daddy?
::doesn't like kids at coop?
.............I'm just giving examples....can you identify anything specifically?
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Sarah M wrote:
| So forgive my blathering on and on |
|
|
 LOVE the "blathering!" And, LOVE the stories and examples like that....very helpful!!!!!!!!
Sarah M wrote:
| And I'll be quiet now. Well, until my Dr. Ray book comes and I have more epiphanies to share. |
|
|
No, PLEASE....more! more!
Do you have your nose buried in that book yet?  (as if you ever DON"T have your nose in a book! )
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sarah M
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 06 2008
Location: Washington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1423
|
| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 4:38pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
SuzanneG wrote:
Do you have your nose buried in that book yet? (as if you ever DON"T have your nose in a book! ) |
|
|
It hasn't come yet!!! So my nose has to be content in The Count of Monte Cristo for now. And hopefully Dr. Ray will arrive in my mailbox this weekend!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
doris
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1103
|
| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
OK, here's a discipline challenge...
My 5yo dd is desperate to know what's going on at all times. So she finds my phone conversations unbearable, wanting to know what I'm saying, what the other person said, etc.
I've got strategies in place for that, but I'm struggling when her 'need to know' involves her siblings, who get very impatient when having to repeat things a gazillion times. She's got a slight hearing problem, too, which doesn't help.
So the other night, she was asking one of her siblings to repeat something they'd said. They said they'd already told her, and wouldn't repeat it. She went into meltdown, screaming and shouting, 'But I want to know! It sounds really interesting!' Nothing we could say or do would help -- and the fact that she woke up the baby when I was trying to leave him with dh did not help the tension of the situation...
WWYD? The same scenario is played out lots of times... She wants things endlessly repeated, other people get fed up, she demands, they refuse, stalemate.
__________________
Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
Frabjous Days
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sharyn
Forum Pro
Joined: June 20 2009
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 417
|
| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm very thankful to our PP for introducing me to the Boundaries series by Dr's Cloud and Townsend. I'm a gentle person. Its very hard to get me angry. I can put up with quite a lot before I respond. I forgive very readily.
The Boundaries books helped me to see where I have to draw the line. That drawing a line involves discipline and leads to maturity. That I must draw a line to raise children who will go on to become mature adults.
So I highly recommend readingBoundaries with Kids if you are someone who finds it hard to know where to draw a line.
One thing that has helped me 'see' unacceptable behavior is to imagine I'm their boss, wife or husband, best friend etc. I think to myself then, would this be acceptable? I have found this very effective. Suddenly I'm able to recognise something I shouldn't allow.
The next bit of course is having the discipline to respond. I have reached the point where I know I can't let bad behavior go, there has to be a commitment to responding for the sake of my child, even when I'm tired, or when it involves difficulties I'd rather not deal with because we're shoppping, or because I'm on the phone etc., for the sake of raising a mature person who will be a blessing to others with their mature behavior.
__________________
Mum to dd (00), ds (03), dd (04), ds (06), one in God's care (08), dd (09), ds (11), one in God's care (13), and ds (13)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MNMommy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 24 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 150
|
| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 7:20am | IP Logged
|
|
|
doris wrote:
OK, here's a discipline challenge...
My 5yo dd is desperate to know what's going on at all times. So she finds my phone conversations unbearable, wanting to know what I'm saying, what the other person said, etc.
I've got strategies in place for that |
|
|
Please share your strategies! My 7yo is a sharp little girl, but she is becoming nosey. She's constantly wanting to be included in all conversations, and I'm not sure of the best (as in nice and effective) way to tell her to "butt out" of my adult conversations. Also, where do you draw the line to identify nosey behavior or even eavesdropping?
__________________
Jennifer
Tired mom to - 10yo dd, 7yo ds, 6yo ds, 4yo dd, 2yo ds
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 8:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary-Theresa, Sarah M, and Fuzzy~
I moved your last posts to a new thread to focus on Parenting Choleric Children
I think it deserves it's own thread.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
kbfsc
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 26 2009
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
SuzanneG wrote:
kbfsc wrote:
| For example, today we have our co-op, and he'll freak out when it's time to leave. That's not a trigger I can eliminate. I'll do my best to prepare him, give him the 5-minute warning... It's so frustrating when his 6-yo sister and 3-yo brother skip happily to the car and he's reduced to tears and stomping on the sidewalk. |
|
|
Does he LIKE/WANT to go to co-op? Or does he def. NOT want to go? That would change how I'd deal with this situation.
Does he have this fit whenever you have to leave to go somewhere? Or just for coop?
Are there actual reasons why is he having a fit?
::Being rushed?
::doesn't like to put on jacket?
::hates the car?
::doesn't like people rushing around?
::doesn't want to leave his play? doesn't want to leave daddy?
::doesn't like kids at coop?
.............I'm just giving examples....can you identify anything specifically? |
|
|
Excellent thoughts! I don't know about all of them, but I do know that he has a terrible time with transitions, especially when fun things come to an end. And his intensity makes his response to every transition... intense. I love the idea of exploring these other possible triggers you've suggested! But I think, in large part, it's going to be a storm we just have to weather.  Hopefully working with him so that he begins to be mindful of his triggers and his self-control grows is the ticket... because that's the only strategy I see right now.
__________________
Kiera
happy mama of ds '02, dd '03, ds '06, dd '09 and little ones in heaven
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 7:26am | IP Logged
|
|
|
OK, I'm back... 
maybe this is just reiterating something I've said already, but I guess I need clarification.
Here's what made my blood boil this morning. Seriously, I was speechless and had to turn away and pretend to do something else to avoid simply screaming at this child  :
I'm trying to get everyone into the routine of getting dressed right after breakfast. Every morning they all need the reminder, even though this has been going on for weeks and weeks. This child is dyslexic and AD(noH)D so that may play into it...
OK, so she's reminded. She goes downstairs to get some clothes, comes back a few minutes later. No clothes, and she's not dressed. I ask her why she's not dressed and she has a long explanation (as always - "I was helping so-and-so, I was putting away my clothes, I was saving the fishtank from the toddler". Send her off again. Five minutes later, no clothes, more explanations.
Here's where I get lost - all her explanations are VALID, but it's not what I asked her to do!! I don't think she is *purposely* being defiant, in an in your face way, but 100x a day she offers explanations to my commands...how can I be in authority over her when she seems completely oblivious to my position of authority??  I would just love a "yes mom" or "I'm sorry mom, I got sidetracked." Not a hot, "I was helping Maggie find a bobby pin!"
Then I wonder how much my PRIDE is in the way of this. I'm *furious* (internally) - but honestly, HOW can I *parent* if they all see me as *optional*? But she doesn't seem to mean anything by it, it's just her "way". I don't LIKE her WAY. 
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 9:36am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Stop asking Amy.. this is where you can stay nice but stop accepting the explanations.. instead of "why aren't you dressed?" say "you're not dressed, shoo shoo! go! get dressed!" you can say this nicely even teasingly.. which is why I'd have the shooing in the middle.. I would be shooing with my hands if I wasn't doing something else too. She starts to explain.. "no, no explanations.. just go get dressed now".
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
kbfsc
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 26 2009
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 216
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:01am | IP Logged
|
|
|
To follow Jodie, and very specific to the getting dressed in the morning thing, we have a rule in our house: no breakfast until you're dressed. Maybe something that concrete would help your daughter stay focused on the task at hand?
__________________
Kiera
happy mama of ds '02, dd '03, ds '06, dd '09 and little ones in heaven
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:04am | IP Logged
|
|
|
One more thought.. she's getting some good talking to mommy time while everyone else is in their rooms.. that's another reason to accept no explanations.. it takes away the "reward" of getting to talk to mommy instead of getting dressed when everyone else is doing so.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Marcia
Forum Pro
Joined: Aug 20 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 437
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:09am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Okay here's my ideas...
First ask yourself...is this my goal or my child's goal. You said "I am getting everyone into the routine of getting dressed after breakfast". That sounds like your goal. How could you encourage your child to make it her own goal?
What about asking her at a different time what she suggests? I see that as a "working with" solution rather than a "power over" situation. Right now if she doesn't get dressed she has the power. If she does you have the power. You can chance it to working with and power together by asking her (not in the morning or in the heat of a moment) but perhaps after lunch?
Some words I might use
"Mary, I would like you (just like rest of the family) to get dressed after breakfast. What would help get dressed? "
I can think of a zillion ideas. Have her lay her clothes out the night before right next to the breakfast table? Put her clothes in zip lock bags that are hanging on a rack in the kitchen? Let her get dressed at 10 am and not just after breakfast? But her suggestion/idea will be the one that works best for her.
Then use some help to help to make it happen...a photo of her dressed? a flow chart?
don't use stickers or too much praise, rather just respond to her doing it by "wow you were right your suggestion worked for you! You got dressed! "
Once again (I feel like I keep repeating myself) I highly recommend Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting. It helps me ask myself if what I am really asking is realistic and if I am working with the child or against their desires.
__________________
Marcia
Mom to six and wife to one
Homeschooling 10th, 7th, 5th, 2nd, PreK and a toddler in tow.
I wonder why
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
I would just love a "yes mom" or "I'm sorry mom, I got sidetracked." Not a hot, "I was helping Maggie find a bobby pin!"
Then I wonder how much my PRIDE is in the way of this. I'm *furious* (internally) - but honestly, HOW can I *parent* if they all see me as *optional*? |
|
|
I think you're right. It doesn't have anything to do with pride! Or maybe, another way to think of it -- as Mother, you have authority -- you can be personally humble yet have respect, even pride in the Motherhood garment you wear. I always remind myself how the Pope can be personally humble and gentle yet wear an elaborate robe, not to show off how great HE is but to give honor and dignity to his ROLE. Our motherhood is an honorable role.
That doesn't mean you have to get angry -- just that you don't have to be ashamed of feeling that boundaries have been trespassed!
The hot defenses sound like evading the issue or even (innocently, no doubt) trying to put YOU on the defensive. So you will feel apologetic about questioning! I would just say, if you think the excuse was valid, "Thanks, but now get dressed!"
And I would model what I would like to hear. I often model, "Yes, mom!" with younger children and if necessary make eye contact and insist gently. Not so much with preteens and teens. With them, I would probably choose a quieter time and tell them what I wanted to hear as a response in the future, so that it didn't get into a "saving face" type power struggle.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
hylabrook1
Forum Moderator
Joined: July 09 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5980
|
| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thinking about what Marcia and Willa said. For several of my children the "working with" approach, as well as a bit of humor/playfulness added in (tying to JodieLyn's "shoo" suggestion) goes a long, long way. These children (one of them is an adult now....)are all too quick to engage a power struggle or to see one where I do not. Depending on how you approach them, "I said do xx!!" , as opposed to "The day works so much more smoothly is we all do xxx in the morning. I'm trying to figure out the best way to get everyone on board with that. What do you think?", where we are cooperating toward an outcome, can be a night and day difference. This has to do with authority, which is not the same thing as power. Absolutely, the mother is the person in authority, the one who sets the goals and requirements, the one who should be respected. No arguments from me there! But an awful lot of the time the *power* element can be worked around. When that power struggle option is avoided with a child who is of this nature, you see a delightful, thoughtful child instead of the argumentative one. I also agree that the more you engage in *extraneous* conversation with a child like this the harder it is to actually get a job done. This is so tricky, though! Often these children are so articulate that they have redirected the conversation and you don't even remember why you asked them to do something in the first place!
Peace,
Nancy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
*Lindsey*
Forum Pro
Joined: May 22 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 496
|
| Posted: Dec 02 2009 at 8:01am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I could use some help with my 6 year old son. We are also working very hard on everyone getting dressed and brushing teeth right after breakfast. He started melting down when I told him to bring his bowl and cup over to the counter and then get dressed. (This is no different from any other morning, we've been at this routine for many months.)
I remind him that he needs to make good choices so he can stay up and watch Rudolph with everyone tonight. (Again, this was discussed last night-that today needed to be filled with lots of good behavior in order to stay up and watch it.) He starts flipping out because his favorite jeans are in the hamper and he "haaaaaates his other STUPID jeans!" I remind him to calm down, tell him that I am doing laundry today and his jeans will be clean tomorrow. I tell him again to get dressed. He stands in the hallway screaming and throwing a toddler like tantrum, yelling that he doesn't know HOW to be good, that I need to TEACH him instead of TELLING him how. Huh?! This goes on for probably 10 minutes as I'm dressing the twins and the baby. I am really close to losing my cool, so I tell him to go to his room. I told him he was staying there for an hour.
Yelling and screaming, irrational words continue for half an hour. Now he's finally quiet.
I am just at a loss as what I should even do. And the whole "teach me how to be good, don't tell me" thing has me baffled. I don't know what I've been doing for the past 6 years if not that.
__________________
Lindsey
Mama to DS (11), DD(9), twin dds(7), DD (5), DS (4), DS (3), and 5 angels in heaven.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Dec 02 2009 at 10:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Lindsey could he be feeling left out? that you're spending more time with the littles and just tossing verbal direction his way? Maybe he's asking for you to be more present/hands on? I know sometimes some of mine will respond better if I'm touching them.. like when you reminded him to calm down about his jeans.. if you could have put an arm around him while talking with him and walked him to his room and helped him get out clothes before leaving him to dress on his own. I know you're busy with the littles.. btdt myself though not with twins. But that may be part of why he's feeling this way.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Dec 02 2009 at 11:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I was thinking that maybe he got overwhelmed with the necessity for "good choices" and the idea of pressure of being good all day. One of my boys would consistently behave worse when he was expected to be particularly good for a long time for some reward. I think he just decided he wasn't going to be able to meet expectations, and opted out right at the beginning. So maybe that is what happened to your son.
Also,sometimes a 6 year old has trouble with the concept of exactly what it means to make good choices. It seems overwhelming. Most kids don't have a concrete list in their head of "good choices" vs "not good choices". So a short concrete list might take the anxiety out of it. Even a simple point system might make it seem more doable to him.
I have something like that for my 6 year old who is a real work in progress at mass. Every week he recites the rules of what it is to be good at mass. Then we review what will happen if he makes a choice to work against those things. That way he has the idea at the top of his mind and it is very concrete and specific "fingers away from nose" "bottom on bench" "feet away from the back of the pew in front" "signals instead of voice", etc.
One more thing -- I often set up a back-up plan or a "replay" option. If a child is going to lose privileges if he does X, then give him the ability to gain the privilege back if he does Y and Z (I usually make it slightly more trouble than it would have been just to do X in the first place). Some kids even resent that because it feels like conditions, but at least they get another chance so they don't feel that by making one false step they plunge off the cliff.
I don't do this with defiance issues or meltdowns, of course -- just with things like picking up or bringing plates where I am trying to train the child in or out of a habit.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Can we have a "tricky" discipline thread?
