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LLMom
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It is hard having teens and like Stef said, there seems to be one (or more in the case of a large family)that need more of everything. Like Angi said, I think handing things to Dad helps, especially for boys. Prayers for all.
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Lisa
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mom2mpr
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I am on the cusp of this stuff and trying to get ahead (in my head). Thank you all for sharing and the resources. We should set up a parenting teen support section.
Anne
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Bookswithtea
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I've got one, too. Prayer and holding closely to Jesus is crucial for my own sanity. And trying to remember that while we are influential, these children (depending on your diocese) are confirmed and need to wrestle with God about some of it without our interference, helps just a little bit. And when I am given over to worry, I watch sweet romantic comedies with happy endings, like Angie's thread from a few weeks ago.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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hylabrook1
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The things some of you all were talking about, that it is very often not so much the parenting but the child's temperament, is very true in my own experience. And, yes, the children have been more or less difficult from birth (at least). I have suffered from other parents telling me that if only I did such and such, that child would stop giving me and dh such a hard time. It is really humbling to have to admit that God alone knows what is up with each child, the easy ones as well as the more challenging. With my tougher ones, it makes no difference what is said to them; if we say the sky is blue, they are quite certain that it is not, even though there is an objective answer to the question. Hardest of all for me to admit, though, is that I was so much like them as a teen, and probably show more of that aspect as an adult than lots of other people. What has helped is prayer, learning that argumentative people like to argue and that sometimes it is best to bite my own tongue to stop the escalation of the battle, choosing my battles, and being forgiving (not letting a negative exchange color the rest of the day; continuing to be loving toward a child who has angered me). Of course there are consequences for disrespectful or destructive behavior. What I have noticed also is that these children are actually very scared after a set-to that I don't love them (anymore? ever?), so treating them with love and kindness the rest of the time is crucial. Again, that doesn't mean they can walk all over anyone, there are still boundaries.
Sorry if this is rambling or repeats what someone else has shared; I just wanted to say that many of us are in this same boat. Some who are struggling choose not to talk about it (either from embarrassment or just keeping private what goes on in their home - which is a fine way of respecting their family). But I have struggled with the feeling that we were the only family who has these issues, so something must be terribly wrong with us. Not true. This is more common than we sometimes realize. I am praying for all of us in our parenting journeys.
Peace,
Nancy
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stefoodie
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hylabrook1 wrote:
| Hardest of all for me to admit, though, is that I was so much like them as a teen, |
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 i know you meant this seriously, but it made me laugh; i remember when our firstborn was born, and she was being fussy. my dh joked in front of my mom that our child was now *my* payback -- he had heard a few stories about me as a teen.
parenting is such a humbling experience! more and more these days when i have to reprimand one of the kids, it occurs to me i was that way before, or even that they got it from me and i'm *still* that way, just in an "adult version". 
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molly
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I really like what Molly said. I have seen this same behaviour we now deal with in the same child at age 2,3,4,5, 6......you get the picture. So much is temperment. My solution is drawing the line at sin. SIN. This is not as arbitrary as we are told.
and I REALLY like the books and concepts that Books wrote about. So much of this "teen" mentality is part of our doings and culture.
Sorry to sound so cut and dry, this topic is really a pet peeve of mine, as I hear so many "experts" tell me what normal "teen" behaviour is. Funny how it has changed so radically in our abundance as a culture.
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Bookswithtea
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molly wrote:
and I REALLY like the books and concepts that Books wrote about. So much of this "teen" mentality is part of our doings and culture.
Sorry to sound so cut and dry, this topic is really a pet peeve of mine, as I hear so many "experts" tell me what normal "teen" behaviour is. Funny how it has changed so radically in our abundance as a culture. |
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I just wanted to clarify that the book I recommended is not entirely the same concept that is often heard in hs circles about the myth of the teenager. In some ways, its similar, but the book addresses the idea that when we don't emancipate teens and let them bear full responsibility for their decisions/mistakes, we actually create a lot of the angst and "idle hands/troublemaking" that some teens seems to find at every turn. He talks a lot about how 12 yr olds were adults for many many generations, that 14 yr old girls married and bore children, etc...
The idea is that by giving our children much more adult responsibility at a much younger age than is even "allowed" in our culture, that we free them to rise to the challenge. The best example I can think of is the Amish, whose children finish up their entire school book education by the 8th grade and then apprentice full time while still under the guidance of their parents.
Its a difficult concept to make work in a modern environment, though. It used to be that a 16 yr old boy could join the military and serve his country. Many did this well. My own father was driving pick up trucks on country roads by the time he was 12, and that was in the 50's/early 60's. Even in the early 20th C. girls were marrying at 16, setting up households and bearing children. Epstein would argue that instead, we've made relations ilicit and then tell our teens that they not only need to finish high school, but take 4-8 yrs to complete college and post graduate school before even considering a wife. And then we wonder why premarital relations are rampant. He is definitely not arguing from a moral basis. He also talks about abortion laws, alcohol laws, and other laws that restrain teens. Still, reading his book helped me to see teens in a different light, as adults stuck in a culture that requires them to remain child-like. I also read Yes, Your Teenager Is Crazy. I didn't care for it. I find Epstein's concept more grounded because it seems to rely on history rather than the latest science.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Angie Mc
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Some disjointed thoughts...
Temperament and teens and rebellion is interesting to think about. I've seen each of the main temperaments rebel in their own way. The easiest examples are of the flaming extrovert who lashes out verbally, physically, and emotionally...think Xtreme sports...while their introverted counterpart disappears inside himself, ignores others, hides in his room, broods...think Gothic Black. Which leads me to thoughts of being strong-willed or spirited...and intensity that can contribute to an inclination to rebel.
How about the situational rebellion? A child who wasn't inclined to rebel, but does so over a situation...or a person like a boyfriend.
I agree with the premise Books describes about the downside of prolonged childhood. Athletics has been a great avenue for my teens to perceive themselves as entering adulthood. The karate class where teens and adults train side-by-side....the baseball team with coaches as mentors, talking baseball with other adults, seeing themselves in the professional players they watch.
Discussing politics has been an avenure to focus teen frustration with "the world". Listening to my teens rail against this or that in politics is fascinating...and politics is a safe place to attack ideas, feel smart and taken seriously.
My dh and I were also somewhat rebellions which, in the end, has been a blessing for us. How can we honestly sit back in harsh judgement for very long? How can we really be "confused" about a teen's rebellion? Don't get me wrong...we've worked like crazy to provide a healthy and wholesome family life...hoping to help our teens avoid many of the traps we fell into. Yet, we have a natural sympathy for the inclination. Our goal is to help them identify temptations and to deal with them.
Along the same lines...I'm still rebellious  . My will is not completely comformed to God's...no where near it, actually  . My teens help me to see this very plainly. Sooooooo, while my dh focuses on their discipline, I try to turn my eyes back to myself...with some gentleness and patience, I hope, for how far God has brought me closer to Himself...as well as an eagerness to always draw closer to Him...to not rebel in the slightest way...to completely surrender to Him. When I look at my hope, I can clearly see that only God's grace can bring this about.
Which gets me to St. Monica. My best guess is that she was a good enough mother...at least  . God simply had big plans for her son...plans that were worked out in a very mysterious way. I need to remind myself when my teens rebel, struggle...it's not about me. It's about them and God. I can't express how hard this is for me, but with God's grace and experience, I'm able to remember this a little bit more often...a little bit more regularly.
Love,
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molly
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Angie-side note here- this past feast of St Monica, I heard a homily that stated St Monica had a drinking problem, and it was not until she had this pointed out to her by one of her servants that she too ammended her ways and turned to God. Have you ever heard this? Interesting........
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Angie Mc
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molly wrote:
| Angie-side note here- this past feast of St Monica, I heard a homily that stated St Monica had a drinking problem, and it was not until she had this pointed out to her by one of her servants that she too ammended her ways and turned to God. Have you ever heard this? Interesting........ |
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I've heard this and that there were other family struggles. This is what I find so hopeful...as a mom we don't have to be perfect...and somehow in this mystery there is the making of saints!...the salvation of souls!
Love,
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Bookswithtea
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Angie Mc wrote:
Temperament and teens and rebellion is interesting to think about. I've seen each of the main temperaments rebel in their own way. The easiest examples are of the flaming extrovert who lashes out verbally, physically, and emotionally...think Xtreme sports...while their introverted counterpart disappears inside himself, ignores others, hides in his room, broods...think Gothic Black. Which leads me to thoughts of being strong-willed or spirited...and intensity that can contribute to an inclination to rebel.
How about the situational rebellion? A child who wasn't inclined to rebel, but does so over a situation...or a person like a boyfriend.
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This is an interesting point. It could be that some children, no matter what the temperament, are wired to be extreme. Years ago in LLL, I read Raising Your Spirited Child, which talked about kids who are just difficult from the moment they are born, but there isn't really anything wrong with them. They are just extreme. The book is good.
I think that in addition to all the other great points people have made, it is also really important to try to get these young adults around people that influence them in good ways. The hard part is finding a crowd that is positive in the peer pressure category but also is appealing to the young adult. Another aspect that requires tons of prayer and careful stepping, I think.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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robinhigh
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This thread has been so encouraging to me... after being belittled for years and having my "motherhood" taken away from me by someone else, I have very little confidence... I remember thinking often of St. Monica, and remembering that she wasn't perfect, (although alot more perfect than me, I'm sure)... this helped me to keep my sanity.
I believe that in the teen years our prayers need to be redoubled.. and, of course, reception of the Sacraments. I think this will help them more than anything else. The world is so messed up right now that the natural means of guiding our teens is nothing compared to the supernatural means that we have daily at our disposal.
Also, I often think of the scripture quote, "Teach a child the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." This comforts me so much, because my children's childhood was near perfect, almost fairytale like in a Catholic sort of way. God allowed this to end for His own Good reasons, and even though in the pain and suffering of "the trial", I lost faith in Him, He has never abandoned me... it only felt like it. He gives me the grace to come back to Him, and He forgets all my sins... He will do the same for my children. HE makes all things new...
The Saints had struggles and sins we do not know about... we can't expect to live heaven on earth, nor can we expect our children to be instant Saints... the struggle is going to be our glory...
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Cay Gibson
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cactus mouse wrote:
| eta: now to your actual original question, "why do they rebel"? - depends on the child - could be they feel you are too strict, or too lenient, they are bored, they are overwhelmed, because society |
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There's truth in this. I know people who have rebelled due to strictness; others who didn't rebel but are scarred from it. It's a personality thing and each child is different. Each responds differently.
A Protestant friend told me that each time they have to discipline a child, she (and/or her husband) say a prayer asking the Lord to soften that child's heart to their correction. Wish I had thought to do that. I ddin't learn that early in parenting but I did learn it early in our hsing journey. Sally Clarkson and the Maxwells taught me that early.
Since then the one thing we have done consistantly is keep in mind that this is a issue we are dealing with. It's always a issue. Yes, my children will sin, they will fall, they will make bad choices, they will disappoint me and their father. So did I. So DO I. But my Father is always forgiving, always loving, always there for me.
There are still bad attitudes at times, still hard calls to make, etc. Yet I don't even view my children's actions as "rebellion." I really can't. They might do things the way "I" don't think they should do them. They might not do things the way "I" want them done. But they are all good kids. They all believe in God first, family second. They all still go to church.
Just from my experience, I would say a parent needs to:
* pray
* have open communication
* keep your child's in the forefront of your discipline
Regarding the younger child, I have seen in many families where the younger children learn SO MUCH from the actions of their older siblings.actions they often choose not to repeat because they know the suffering and conflict it brings. They will learn about good choices and bad decisions, what anguish is caused by disobedience and what bliss obedience can bring...without you having to say a word.
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Cay Gibson
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Angie Mc wrote:
This is what I find so hopeful...as a mom we don't have to be perfect...and somehow in this mystery there is the making of saints!...the salvation of souls!
Love, |
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 Exactly!!!
It's so EASY, really. It's the world that makes us think we have to be perfect in everything. But God made us, and He knows better.
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Cay Gibson
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msclavel
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Bookswithtea wrote:
This is an interesting point. It could be that some children, no matter what the temperament, are wired to be extreme. Years ago in LLL, I read Raising Your Spirited Child, which talked about kids who are just difficult from the moment they are born, but there isn't really anything wrong with them. They are just extreme. The book is good.
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This is a great point and I love the use of that word, EXTREME. My second dd is amazing. Life of the party, wonderful with little ones, fiercely loyal and so very generous. But she is extreme. I don't think its that she *wants* to rebel, but in her sorting and figuring who she is (apart from this great big family of hers) she gets ahead of herself and frankly my dh and me. And I can honestly say her personality has been bigger than life since she was born. One of her younger sisters has me scared out of my wits when she hits the teens. Lots of prayer and being kind to ourselves and trusting their heavenly Father's will is perfect.
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guitarnan
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Interesting...my son is a RYSC poster child but that has actually made working with him as a teen easier. First, I read the book while he was a preschooler (RYSC, that is) and took it to heart, which means I have a decent understanding of his temperament (and mine, whew). Second, I learned when he was 4 that he was a black and white person (no grey areas for my son!) and that this would shape his reactions to things. Even though he can get very emotional (spirited kid!), he has a strong sense of what is sinful, goes to Confession frequently and tries to figure out how the world works in spite of rampant injustice. This is hard for him - I think he should consider law enforcement as a career because of his strong sense of justice - but he knows he has to try.
Cay has a good point, that youngers learn from observation. My dd is trying hard to think toward the future because she sees her brother sorting through the college/vocation/career stuff now. If we as parents can model St. Monica's example of prayer and perseverance, and learn to respond with love when things don't go well, we are giving lifelong gifts to our children. Everyone in the family will see God's love reflected in the parents' actions.
My dd's Toughlove coordinator godparents showed me by example that it is very possible and necessary to differentiate between unconditional love for your child and letting teens take the consequences for their actions. Hard, yes, but important for all of us...because, in the end, God will hold us accountable for our actions, will He not?
And, most importantly, He has already planned for our salvation...it's ours if we choose to live like Jesus...so I try to point this fact out to my children once in a while. It's not all about now. It's about forever - so taking the long view is a very good thing.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Why do teenagers rebel?
