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4 lads mom
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| we aren't to receive Communion there unless it's an emergency type situation. |
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It is okay to receive Communion at the Byzantine Catholic Church....it is the Orthodox Christian that we can't receive unless it is an emergency. We do go to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy all of the time, and receive Communion. 
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Mom of four brave lads and one sweet lassie
Scenes From This and That
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JSchaaf
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crusermom wrote:
Hi Lisa,
That is our parish. It is beautiful and we were so happy to find it when the Army transferred us to San Antonio. |
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Mary,
We are to move to San Antonio next summer (we were there 2005-2007) and are already planning on joining the parish at Our Lady of the Atonement. Such a beautiful church and liturgy. We lived in SW San Antonio last time, so it took about 40 minutes to get up there, but so worth it. My dh was hesitant about an Anglican Rite church, but now feels better about it knowing that the Pope is ok with it, too!
Jennifer
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folklaur
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Betsy wrote:
I don't believe that you can. I have a very fuzzy understanding of the "rules" but the Priest that did help us said that although they are under Rome (right words??) and they have the True Presence, we aren't to receive Communion there unless it's an emergency type situation. |
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nope, that isn't right.
we can receive Communion at any of the other rites in the Church.
Eastern Orthodox - as opposed to Eastern Catholics - are the ones with the True Presence and valid Sacraments, but we are not in full communion with them, and we can only receive in emergency type situations according to Rome, however, the Eastern Orthodox DO NOT feel that we can, so, we probably should not in any case.
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folklaur
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4 lads mom wrote:
| I'm curious.....could my son make his First Reconciliation with a Byzantine priest, even though we are from the Latin Rite....and even his First Holy Communion? I know they don't "do" First Communion, because the children receive as babies on up.....but I thought it was still okay to do this...anybody? |
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i know a family where most of the children were born in the Latin rite, but their youngest received all the sacraments in the Byzantine Church, even tho they did not formally switch rites. HOWEVER, they attend the Byzantine church all the time.
i think it would be quite bad form to do it for Sacraments only. i can't believe that Rome would be approving of that, it would be like "skirting the rules to suit yourself."
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folklaur
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because i am lousy with words sometimes -
i need to say that i don't think anyone here would "skirt the rules."
to understand better - down here in the Southwest - oodles -and i mean OODLES - of people who don't like their parish's RE program take their kids and go to Mexico for sacraments. they don't like the rules, so they make their own.
that is TOTALLY different than if you are already attending a Byzantine parish (even w/o changing rites) and your children receive their sacraments there. you are part of that community.
sorry i wasn't clearer, certainly did not mean to offend!
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Bookswithtea
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cactus mouse wrote:
because i am lousy with words sometimes -
i need to say that i don't think anyone here would "skirt the rules."
to understand better - down here in the Southwest - oodles -and i mean OODLES - of people who don't like their parish's RE program take their kids and go to Mexico for sacraments. they don't like the rules, so they make their own.
that is TOTALLY different than if you are already attending a Byzantine parish (even w/o changing rites) and your children receive their sacraments there. you are part of that community.
sorry i wasn't clearer, certainly did not mean to offend! |
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Yeah, that's what I was referring to in So CA, too. It makes me wonder, though, why the Latin Rite in Mexico practices like this and our practice is so different.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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folklaur
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was referring to in So CA, too. It makes me wonder, though, why the Latin Rite in Mexico practices like this and our practice is so different. |
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i have opinions (imagine that! ), but i am thinking it might be a conversation for a different time (or venue!)
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Bookswithtea
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cactus mouse wrote:
i have opinions (imagine that! ), but i am thinking it might be a conversation for a different time (or venue!) |
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Maybe another time...
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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MaryM
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As I am not currently accessing the computer much out of town, I've gotten behind in the conversation. So let me add, when I first posted the info "Any Catholic is allowed, even habitually, to receive most sacraments in a ritual Church different from his or her ritual Church, without formally becoming a member of the Church" was meant to indicate one does not officially have to change rites in order to attend and participate in the Divine Liturgy and sacraments even if on a regular basis, which has been mentioned by Laura and allegience mom.
It would just be if one wanted it to be official/permanent or when dealing with the sacraments of Matrimony or Holy Orders that a petition to change rites would be needed.
Bookswithtea wrote:
| Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if it is hard to get permission? |
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How difficult that is does seem to vary. And I've heard that it does seem to be more challenging on the Latin side.
Betsy wrote:
| Also, once you change I don't believe it's possible to change back...they don't want a revolving door kind of policy. |
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It is my understanding that is why the permission process is in place and is taken so seriously and isn't just a simple matter - so there isn't a going back and forth. It probably wouldn't be impossible to change back to original rite, but one could see why it might be denied - as they want this to be a very well thought out and final decision.
It doesn't particularly pertain to any specific question here, but I find it very interesting and thought you would as well. It's about children and which rite they are a part of regardless of which rite they received the sacraments under. (EC=Eastern-rite Catholic, LC=Latin-rite Catholic)
The child of an EC father is EC unless both parents request that the child be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the mother. Sui iuris is a Latin term that means “of one’s own laws”. It is used in Church documents the Codes of Canons of the Eastern and Western Churches and refers to the particular Churches that together compose the Catholic Church.
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Canon 29 of the Eastern Code of Canon Law
1. By virtue of baptism, a child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year of age is enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the Catholic father; or the Church sui iuris of the mother if only the mother is Catholic or if both parents by agreement freely request it. |
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And these are basically mirrored in the Code of Canon Law in the Latin Rite:
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Canon 111
§1 Through the reception of baptism a child becomes a member of the Latin Church if the parents belong to that Church or, should one of them not belong to it, if they have both by common consent chosen that the child be baptised in the Latin Church: if that common consent is lacking, the child becomes a member of the ritual Church to which the father belongs. |
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It would be important with any reception of sacraments to discuss this with the priest where you wanted them to receive. I'm sure that Eastern Rite churches have people in this situation commonly and can help with the logistics. Some of these sacraments are not "sacraments of record."
One of the reasons that I have done some study on this is that we have a homeschool family who has recently started organizing a monthly homeschool day for our group at her local Byzantine (Ruthenian) Church - Father has confession, then Divine Liturgy, followed by lunch for the group. The priest there is bi-ritual (like Allegiance Mom mentioned about Fr. Pacwa) so does a great job of explaining the different rites. Those of us who have attended with her are learning about the differences between the rites and it has encouraged me research some of this a bit.
This particular woman is EC by birth but eventually began attending regularly in LC Church and married a LC husband. Only in the last 2 years has she returned to attending in the EC and her children love it. Her husband has not officially requested a change of rite thoguth they attend together as a family as he is still discerning that. The children by vitue of having a LC father, are considered LC still, but have made their recent sacraments in the EC Church (Confession, Eucharist, Confirmation).
I find it all very interesting.
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Mary M. in Denver
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jdostalik
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MaryM wrote:
I find it all very interesting. |
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I agree, Mary!! I have a deep love of the Eastern Rite of our Holy Catholic Church. I just love the spirituality and the beauty of the sacraments and the Divine Liturgy, especially. 
I have an Eastern Rite parish not too far from me, but it is still 30 minutes away and thus, I haven't found my way there yet....our parish is 2 minutes away (we could walk)...
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Bookswithtea
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Thanks, Mary. This is really helpful. I always wondered...
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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4 lads mom
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If I can chime in again...I would really, really encourage everyone to go to a Divine Liturgy at the Byzantine Catholic Church....it is aptly named, 'Divine', I love it!!! I feel after I leave there that we have blanketed the entire world and people with our prayers...you pray for everything!! It is such a rich experience. The people, from my times at two different parishes, (Ukrainian and Ruthenian) are so welcoming and friendly. There is usually a big gathering with food afterwards, (a friend used to say, "it isn't Byzantine unless there is food  )
I hope you all make time to attend some Sunday, I don't think you will be disappointed. It is a different spirituality, I feel like I get to know a long distance relative really well, and think, "I have to stay in touch with you!!"
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crusermom
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JSchaaf wrote:
We are to move to San Antonio next summer (we were there 2005-2007) and are already planning on joining the parish at Our Lady of the Atonement. Such a beautiful church and liturgy. We lived in SW San Antonio last time, so it took about 40 minutes to get up there, but so worth it. My dh was hesitant about an Anglican Rite church, but now feels better about it knowing that the Pope is ok with it, too!
Jennifer
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Welcome to San Antonio! You might explain to your DH that it is not an Anglican Rite but rather an Anglican liturgy within the Roman Rite. So, although our liturgy is a bit different and our priest is married, it is still not a different rite.
We occasionally attended a Byzantine Church where we were last stationed and I think the majority of the people there belonged to the Roman Rite but were seeking a more reverent liturgy. Getting the sacraments done all at once was a bit tempting since being in the military we had been running into some problems with our moves and timing for Confirmation. Our Anglican Use parish does Confirmation and First Holy Communion together at the same mass. So, last year four of my children were confirmed.
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Marcia
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and isn't this beautiful!
Anglicans welcome to Roman Catholicism
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Marcia
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Tami
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Just saw this link on Fr. Z's blog
Latin Rite Catholics Attending Eastern Catholic Liturgy
Had to wonder if the question came from this thread?
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Tami
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MaryM
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Very timely, huh, Tami... maybe it was influenced from here.
Hoping for full communion one day, Pope John Paul II often referred to the need of the Church to “breathe again with both lungs” and encouraged an understanding and knowldege of both traditions, east and west. Attending a divine liturgy and learning about the Eastern Catholic Churches is a way to do that.
There are numerous quotes where he talked about this. Here is one from Ecclesia in America, 1999
Quote:
| The universal Church needs a synergy between the particular Churches of East and West so that she may breathe with her two lungs, in the hope of one day doing so in perfect communion between the Catholic Church and the separated Eastern Churches. Therefore, we cannot but rejoice that the Eastern Churches have in recent times taken root in America alongside the Latin Churches present there from the beginning, thus making the catholicity of the Lord's Church appear more clearly. |
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Ut Unum Sint -"On commitment to Ecumenism" has sections on Churches of the East.
Pope Benedict is reaching out and working toward greater unity with the Eastern churches. It is all very encouraging.
And I will add, while I am very interested in the Eastern traditions and love to find out more and experience the Divine Liturgy, I do find such comfort and beauty in the Western traditions - the Latin rite. It is my home spiritually and sacramentally.
In order to change rites one should be genuinely called to take on the spiritual, theological, liturgical, and sacramental life of that particular Church. I think it would be discouraged as a means to overcome frustrations with the local Latin-rite churches.
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Susana
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We went to a a Byzantine church for Divine Liturgy last year. It was for the Feast of the Assumption. It was my first time, and I thought it was very beautiful and my 6 year old was able to follow along surprisingly well. The only thing that left me feeling like I'd never want to go back, was that I didn't know everyone stood for Communion there (I should have informed myself), and I knelt and stuck out my tongue as I am accustomed. The priest reprimanded me and proceeded to give me a history lesson. I was very shocked, especially since he had Our Lord in his hands and he did not give me Communion. I was in tears and felt like I'd never want to go back. 
I'm sure it's not like that at every Byzantine parish, and am in no way calling them out. It was just a very traumatic experience for me and I wish he could have maybe been a bit more charitable, but what do I know?  The Divine Liturgy was very beautiful though, and it was wonderful for my children to see another part of the universal Church.
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MaryM
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Oh, Susana, I'm so sorry to hear that. Unfortunately there are scenarios like that which I have heard before - in various rites and various forms. Luckily it's rare, but it is sad that situations like that can't be handled more charitably.
And I guess this is generally a good reminder to see if you can find out about the traditions and expectations before attending a different rite or form of the liturgy. We were fortunate the woman who is a member of the Byzantine church posted some specific guidelines like this to our online group before we went the first time.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Marcia
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Susana,
I'd encourage you to go again. Consider calling the priest before hand and meeting with him to get info (albiet short) about how to receive. I have found that knowing the priest has let him call my name out in the line as I approach.....the servant of God Marcia, recieve the precious and life giving Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.....
Hearing my name called as I receive is an amazing thing. So personal.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience and I hope you have another chance to attend Divine Liturgy.
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Marcia
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Veronika
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Susana,
As a Byzantine rite Catholic, I encourage you to come back to the Divine Liturgy and give it one more chance. I apologize for this priest's insensitivity; be assured that not all church communities are the same. I wish you lived in Pennsylvania as I'm sure we'd love to welcome you! Our pastor is bi-ritual, himself and we are accustomed to having guests who do not know our customs. We are encouraged to welcome them and help them feel a part of our church family. Because of these guests, we have many families at our parish who began in Latin rite churches and then found their way to ours and our church is growing. Not many churches of either rite can say that these days. Because my own mother was Latin rite till she married my Dad,I'm somewhat familiar with both rites, but was raised Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic. I know that it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the feelings of those who are firmly implanted in one rite and those who are searching for a different way to express their love for God. Niether is better or worse, right or wrong, more or less pleasing to God, in and of themselves. Both are authentic, Catholic and true. What matters is how it helps you to express what is in your own heart. Go where you can sing joyfully and pray with your whole heart. May God grant you peace!
Veronika
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Veronika
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: anyone ever changed rites?
