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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Sept 28 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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Angie Mc wrote:
| Thank you for your contributions. The door is always open to you, here, Michelle. |
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Thanks Angie. I had quite a few people write to me privately as well and I am glad to know my contributions to the discussion have been appreciated by some.
Admittedly I've been a bit over sensitive lately. All the children have been here for my son Christopher's welcome home celebration and emotions have been running pretty high. But that's a good thing.
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
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JennGM
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After internet problems and being out of town, I'm back.
Charlotte, I was very hurt by your post. I think you misinterpreted the thread. In your own hurt, you did hurt others. I’m sorry if you were upset by what we wrote, but it wasn’t directed at you or anyone else. I don't want to go into a debate; I find it emotionally draining and unproductive. I think other posters have given some great responses and touched on some of your objections.
The Original Post was specifically asking those who are trying to focus on Sundays like JPII suggests in Dies Domini, how they were going to approach this Advent when two favorite saints days aren’t even on the liturgical calendar for this year. I’m saddened that a thought-provoking thread was derailed. I apologize that the first post wasn't clear, and I've reworded it to my original intention.
Examining myself is just that – examining myself. No one is suggesting that other people are wrong or incorrect.
We’re part of the Mystical Body, one body, with many different parts, each part very unique. My domestic church is going to look different than everyone else’s.
I guess this is a reminder that we need to keep our eyes on our own work. While we're discussing ideas here, there isn't judging or looking at others at what they are or not doing, but just talking and deciding what to do in our own domestic church.
I continue to read the Church documents, and I do try to make my liturgical year activities point to the liturgy, which is the “the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the fount from which all her power flows.” (Constitution on the Liturgy). I have also been guided by the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and Calendar and Directory of Popular Piety. We are not bound under pain of sin to follow these in our home but they are helpful guides for me.
Each member's domestic church and conscience is her own own and no one is telling another to do anything differently, nor that anyone is doing anything wrong. I hope that the conversation can continue.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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Red Cardigan wrote:
In reading all of this I can't help but be a little confused. Here's why:
In religious orders it's customary to celebrate the order's particular saints. During weekday Masses the optional memorials for the saints of the order will be chosen over other optional memorials, of course. But if a major order saint's feast day falls on a Sunday, the Sunday Mass takes precedence, but the order will go on to celebrate in some way the life and works of the saint in question; one example I found was that of an order of Carmelite nuns celebrating St. Teresa of Avila even though the Sunday Mass had preceded the celebration and, of course, the feast was not liturgically observed.
Are religious orders wrong to do this? It seems to be a long-standing custom in many different religious houses. Why is it different for private celebrations of a saint's life and work in one's home following the Sunday Mass? |
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No, the religious orders aren't wrong. That guideline is also in General Norms of the Liturgical Year and Calendar
Quote:
52. A particular calendar is prepared by inserting in the General Calendar special solemnities, feasts, and memorials proper to that calendar:
a. in a diocesan calendar, in addition to celebrations of its patrons and the dedication of the cathedral,[R10] the saints and the blessed who bear some special connection with that diocese, for example, as their birthplace, residence over a long period, or place of death;
b. in the calendar of religious, besides celebrations of their title,[R11] founder, or patron, those saints and blesseds who were members of that religious family or had some special relationship with it.
c. in a calendar for individual churches, celebrations proper to a diocese or religious community, those celebrations that are proper to that church and are listed in the Table of Liturgical Days and also the saints who are buried in that church. Members of religious communities should join with the community of the local Church in celebrating the anniversary of the dedication of the cathedral and the principle patrons of the place and of the larger region where they live.
53. When a diocese or religious family has the distinction of having many saints and blessed, care must be taken not to overload the calendar of the entire diocese or institute. Consequently:
a. The first measure that can be taken is to have a common feast of all the saints and the blessed of a given diocese or religious family or of some category.
b. Only the saints and blessed of particular significance for an entire diocese or religious family may be entered in the calendar with an individual celebration.
c. The other saints or blessed are to be celebrated only in those places with which they have closer ties or where their bodies are buried. |
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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Matilda wrote:
| I'm not comfortable making a decision based on "what would the saint want or do" because it seems kind of presumptuous. I don't really know what St. Nicholas or St. Lucy would want. St. Charles of Borromeo said that even if Christ were at hand, he would continue with his game of chess "for that he had begun it for the glory of God, and should continue it for the same end". Celebrating the saints with my children is done for the glory of God, not the glory of the saint, so why shouldn't we continue with it after we have celebrated Mass or even before? I mean, we are going to be eating breakfast anyway on the 13th, why can't it be cinnamon rolls in bed? |
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If my Sunday morning is not hectic, the cinnamon rolls in bed is perfect. I wrote that already.
In imitating the saints, I think it IS proper to wonder and try to understand their thinking. What about that little saying “What Would Jesus Do?” We are trying to enter the mindset of Jesus and the saints in learning by their example. We want to become saints, too, so wondering what they would do or think is part of asking “What would St. Nicholas do in this situation?”
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JennGM
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Sorry for the serial posts here. I'd like to try to get back to discussion on how to make Sundays a priority in the home. Sundays are a focus on the Resurrection, a little Easter every Sunday.
I find it so easy to come up with ideas for saints' days, but when Daddy is home and family routines, what easy ways can you send that message to your children that Sundays are a special day? And I don't mean like in the "Little House" books where no one was allowed to do anything.
From this thread was some brainstorming on a special symbolic drink:celebrating feasts on the road
MaryM wrote:
JodieLyn wrote:
| ah ha.. I was wondering if it was the blackberry.. that sounds like a lovely thing to do. Plus I LIKE the Izze drinks (though pomegranite is my favorite ) |
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Yeah - maybe we can figure out a feast that is linked to pomegranite... |
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Jenngm wrote:
[Haha! That's easy -- the bursting pomegranate is a symbol of the Resurrection. Easter Izze drinks! Since the Resurrection is commemorated every Sunday...this could be your Sunday drink.  |
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MaryM wrote:
| Ooooh, great idea - especially the Sunday part, as I'm looking for those ways to focus Sunday after reflecting on this topic over the weekend. |
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SusanJ wrote:
| One thing we do set up Sunday: Saturday evening I make a nicer dinner and usually dessert. We used to use our nicer china (thanks for the reminder) and a tablecloth. We have a simple "Lord's Day Liturgy" where we read the prologue to John's Gospel and light a candle. Then we read the Epistle and Gospel for Sunday Mass and close with grace. The candle stays burning until we've said Sunday Evening Prayer I and is lit for Morning and Evening Prayer on Sunday as well (we also always light tapers for prayer time). It's been a great way to "start Sunday" and for me making a Sunday dinner on Sunday felt very stressful. |
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And Susan, I love this idea. It reminds me of Steubenville's Lord's Day celebrations. I never lived on campus, so I never entered that routine, but would like to do something more like this at home.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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MicheleQ
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Jenngm wrote:
| [Haha! That's easy -- the bursting pomegranate is a symbol of the Resurrection. Easter Izze drinks! Since the Resurrection is commemorated every Sunday...this could be your Sunday drink. |
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Love this!
Jenngm wrote:
MaryM wrote:
| Ooooh, great idea - especially the Sunday part, as I'm looking for those ways to focus Sunday after reflecting on this topic over the weekend. |
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SusanJ wrote:
| One thing we do set up Sunday: Saturday evening I make a nicer dinner and usually dessert. We used to use our nicer china (thanks for the reminder) and a tablecloth. We have a simple "Lord's Day Liturgy" where we read the prologue to John's Gospel and light a candle. Then we read the Epistle and Gospel for Sunday Mass and close with grace. The candle stays burning until we've said Sunday Evening Prayer I and is lit for Morning and Evening Prayer on Sunday as well (we also always light tapers for prayer time). It's been a great way to "start Sunday" and for me making a Sunday dinner on Sunday felt very stressful. |
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And Susan, I love this idea. It reminds me of Steubenville's Lord's Day celebrations. I never lived on campus, so I never entered that routine, but would like to do something more like this at home. |
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Me too! Not the Steubenville part, the "I love this idea" part. We are big on vigils here but I haven't thought to do the big family dinner on Sat. evening. Cooking is work to me and Sundays really are my off day but we can't really afford dinner out every week so a Sat. evening thing makes perfect sense. Not that we don't often have a special dinner on Sat. evenings but I like the idea of making it the start of Sunday.
Thanks Susan!
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Michele Quigley
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CrunchyMom
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I like the candle part, too. I have mulled around all the "candle" ideas for circle times and all meals (yk, all the Waldorf stuff), but I wonder if a candle on the table specifically when we are celebrating a feast day AND on Sundays (maybe a special candle that is just for Sundays?) wouldn't be a good way to differentiate. I think if I served my kids hot dogs but had a candle on the table, they might think it was special.
The whole vigil meal idea is really inspired! I'll have to run it by dh. It sounds like one of those things he might love in theory but practically, he doesn't like to stop working until late on Saturday nights because he's trying to cram everything in before Sunday. I'm not sure how it would work to try and stop to celebrate Sunday as a vigil only to hop up from the table to put in a couple more hours in the workshop or yard, yk?
I have thought that preparing for every Sunday the same way I do if we are entertaining on Sunday (just on a smaller scale) would be nice. I usually am able to prepare most things so that the actual work on Sunday is minimal. My grandmother made a pot roast every Sunday for years. Granted, it was one of two dishes she knew how to make, but even though she wasn't much of a cook, after all that practice, she got pretty good at it. Anyway, I'm wondering if a nice pot roast in a crockpot wouldn't be easy to put together the day before (all the chopping veggies and browning meat) so that I could put it on first thing in the morning.
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Lindsay
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MaryM
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I'm also one who dwells on topics for a long time. I tend to just absorb and listen often because the conversation moves at a faster pace than my ability to articulate my thoughts and feelings. I found the past week's discussion to be very beneficial as it really did make me think. I was seeing what each side was saying - though I hate to use the word "side" because I truly believe we are all seeking the same thing, to get ourselves and our families to heaven, so it seems not productive to try to compare ourselves or feel that a passionate opinion judges another.
JennGM wrote:
Red Cardigan wrote:
In religious orders it's customary to celebrate the order's particular saints. During weekday Masses the optional memorials for the saints of the order will be chosen over other optional memorials, of course. But if a major order saint's feast day falls on a Sunday, the Sunday Mass takes precedence, but the order will go on to celebrate in some way the life and works of the saint in question; one example I found was that of an order of Carmelite nuns celebrating St. Teresa of Avila even though the Sunday Mass had preceded the celebration and, of course, the feast was not liturgically observed.
Are religious orders wrong to do this? It seems to be a long-standing custom in many different religious houses. Why is it different for private celebrations of a saint's life and work in one's home following the Sunday Mass? |
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No, the religious orders aren't wrong. That guideline is also in General Norms of the Liturgical Year and Calendar
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I was aware of this custom for parishes and religious orders with a special connection to a particular saint and that it is appropriate for them to recognize/celebrate. Ironically this week I've come across a couple personal examples of this.
The name of my parish is St. Vincent de Paul. His feast day is Sept. 27, this past Sunday. Fr. made a point before Mass to mention this out and explain how this would be handled since it fell on a Sunday this year. He indicate that while the readings would be for the 26th Sunday in Ordinary time, the blessings would be those for the feast of St. Vincent de Paul. Honoring the patron within the primacy of the Sunday liturgy.
Also, I am planning a trip to Santa Fe for the first weekend in October. We will be there for the feast of St. Francis which is on Sunday this year so again is not on the liturgical calendar - BUT he's the patron of the Cathedral there and of the city itself - and this is the year of the 400th anniversary of the founding of La Villa Real de la Santa Fé de San Francisco de Asís (The Royal City of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis of Assisi) which is Santa Fe's whole name. Because of this they are doing a huge parish feast day celebration. Both examples of how feast days of saints are recognized on Sundays in particular situations. Like Susan mentioned her husband's thoughts regarding important family traditions in recognition of a particular saint would seem to fit into this. So I was inclined to go ahead and continue with traditions that we do regularly (like shoes on St. Nicholas eve). Sometimes we have a St. Nicholas Day party - this year I would not include that.
I think it (this thread) was helpful to me because it prompted me to be open to self examination and reflection on a topic I really hadn't thought about. I had not thought about Advent or of making a conscious effort to move feast day celebrations and am still inclined to go with what we do anyway as I mentioned above. We don't tend to do St. Lucy every year anyway - so not an issue. I don't feel it would be appropriate for our family to focus on her feast day on a Sunday in Advent when we don't tend to do anything every year anyway.
Something that did hit me in the course of the discussion was (not related to feast days falling on Sundays), "How well am I making Sunday the priority in the life of my family?" Yes, we attend Mass. We tend to keep it less active - family time, visiting, some recreation, but am I really setting an example for my family of the priority of Sunday and engaging in the Passion and Resurrection each week. So for that sense of evaluating what is current happening in our lives I found the conversation fruitful. I'm still thinking about it and have some other thoughts to share re: Lord's Day Supper which I also experienced for the first time this weekend. But I'm out of time. Be back later...
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JennGM
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I like the candle part, too. I have mulled around all the "candle" ideas for circle times and all meals (yk, all the Waldorf stuff), but I wonder if a candle on the table specifically when we are celebrating a feast day AND on Sundays (maybe a special candle that is just for Sundays?) wouldn't be a good way to differentiate. I think if I served my kids hot dogs but had a candle on the table, they might think it was special. |
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I have been mulling over one Catholic tradition for years and it wasn't until today that I thought it would be perfect for all year round. It's the Christ Candle -- a white candle that would be in the Advent wreath/christmas wreath symbolizing Christ. But that Christ Candle becomes the paschal candle during Easter.
So why not have a white candle (tall thick taper or pillar) that is designated for Sundays only? It could be decorated like a paschal candle, and I have to think if I would adjust the custom for Lent and then introduce the NEW Paschal candle at Easter.
Just mulling ideas. This would be a simple visual.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I have thought that preparing for every Sunday the same way I do if we are entertaining on Sunday (just on a smaller scale) would be nice. I usually am able to prepare most things so that the actual work on Sunday is minimal. My grandmother made a pot roast every Sunday for years. Granted, it was one of two dishes she knew how to make, but even though she wasn't much of a cook, after all that practice, she got pretty good at it. Anyway, I'm wondering if a nice pot roast in a crockpot wouldn't be easy to put together the day before (all the chopping veggies and browning meat) so that I could put it on first thing in the morning. |
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I remember Helen having some posts on preparing the Sunday Mass clothing early, not a frantic Sunday morning or Saturday night rush.
And in reading so many cultural cookbooks about feast day customs, there were two things I noticed/wondered. One is what was the mother's timeline for preparing for a big celebration. And two, the actual dinner food for the big feast days like Christmas and especially Easter were less time and prep intensive. So many of the special foods were made beforehand.
I like the idea of crockpot. Adn I also like the idea of knowing that this will be "Sunday chicken" or "Sunday pot roast".
Giving me a lot to think about.
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SusanJ
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I'm glad the Lord's Day dinner is a hit. My husband was involved with a charismatic community in college and though we don't feel called to that particular kind of worship now he really liked the Lord's Day dinner idea. The liturgy he was familiar with was quite long so we simplified it on our own. I blogged about it here the first time we did it and we really haven't missed a week unless we were traveling.
We always light liturgically-colored tapers for Morning and Evening Prayer (speaking of which, does anyone know where I can get some green ones?) and then we have a large, thick, white candle for Sunday. The large one comes to the table Saturday night and is the one we light in addition to the tapers for all the Sunday prayers. We also light this thick candle for the octaves of Christmas and Easter. I really like the idea of incorporating it into an Advent wreath. It does last about a year so that would be perfect. We use wrought-iron look candle holders from IKEA and they all match and look lovely set up on top of a bookcase for prayer. You can sort of see the set-up in this old post.
We have loved this liturgy and I love setting up Sunday and really marking the beginning of our Sabbath. Sunday dinner is usually leftovers or something really, really simple like rice and chicken and sauce from a jar.
Susan
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MicheleQ
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JennGM wrote:
I have been mulling over one Catholic tradition for years and it wasn't until today that I thought it would be perfect for all year round. It's the Christ Candle -- a white candle that would be in the Advent wreath/christmas wreath symbolizing Christ. But that Christ Candle becomes the paschal candle during Easter.
So why not have a white candle (tall thick taper or pillar) that is designated for Sundays only? It could be decorated like a paschal candle, and I have to think if I would adjust the custom for Lent and then introduce the NEW Paschal candle at Easter.
Just mulling ideas. This would be a simple visual. |
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Ah, I have the Paschal Candle kit from Illuminated Ink that we haven't even used yet --it would be perfect. But yes, any white candle would do.
Oh! I almost forgot but Julia Fogassy also has a Paschal candle that is 10" tall and comes with incense grains and stickers. It's part of the Baptismal Kit but the candle can be bought separately for just $10.95. You can see an image of it on the Our Father's House website. I can personally attest to it's loveliness. Jenn did you see it at the 4 Real conference a few years ago?
Also, because we regularly attend a Latin High Mass I was thinking of adding incense as well, using the thurible and stand from our miniature mass kit. Maybe not every Sunday but the definitely the higher ones.
Another thing we’ve used in the past (it’s been a rough few years and we’ve gotten slack in certain things as we’ve tried to adjust to our new lifestyle) is the Patmos book Evening Prayerbook: Sunday Vespers. This is a really beautiful book and such a beautiful way to be united to the prayer of the Church. I like it a lot. We also use the Night Prayerbook: Compline which it seems is unfortunately OOP.
Our new plan (thank you Jenn!) is to start with the vigil on Saturday evening. A special family dinner and celebration, lighting the candle (and incense) and finishing the evening with the Sunday Vigil Night prayer from the Compline book. Sunday will be leftovers and/or an easy dinner (that’s been prepared) laid back and relaxed, sometimes a time for visiting but truly a time when we really do try to avoid unnecessary work. We often will have a family soccer game or watch a movie or read stories and we’ll end Sunday with Vespers from the Evening Prayerbook. I should mention that with multiple children I think it’s best to shorten the prayers a bit and only take choice parts. We have generally done the entire thing but it's just too long for the littles. We’re still working out the details but right now the plan is just to do the Introductory Rite, hymn, canticle of Mary, intercessions, prayer and closing rite. We’ll see how it goes.
I realize this isn’t a plan that would work for everyone –it’s our plan for our family and we’re happy with it. We’re studying Dies Domini as a family right now are inspired by it in so many ways --like this quote, “Even in lay life, when possible, why not make provision for special times of prayer — especially the solemn celebration of Vespers, for example — or moments of catechesis, which on the eve of Sunday or on Sunday afternoon might prepare for or complete the gift of the Eucharist in people's hearts?”
Off to bed.
Peace and joy to all!
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Michele Quigley
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aussieannie
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Michele Q wrote:
| “Even in lay life, when possible, why not make provision for special times of prayer — especially the solemn celebration of Vespers, for example — or moments of catechesis, which on the eve of Sunday or on Sunday afternoon might prepare for or complete the gift of the Eucharist in people's hearts?” |
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That's a beautiful quote Michele, thank you for sharing it!
JennGM wrote:
I have been mulling over one Catholic tradition for years and it wasn't until today that I thought it would be perfect for all year round. It's the Christ Candle -- a white candle that would be in the Advent wreath/christmas wreath symbolizing Christ. But that Christ Candle becomes the paschal candle during Easter.
So why not have a white candle (tall thick taper or pillar) that is designated for Sundays only? It could be decorated like a paschal candle, and I have to think if I would adjust the custom for Lent and then introduce the NEW Paschal candle at Easter. |
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Jenn, usually that candle is quite big, could you use that Christ candle for all the Sundays of the year at home rather than making another one? I'm wondering because isn't the Pascal candle lit every Sunday at church as well?
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JennGM
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MicheleQ wrote:
| Oh! I almost forgot but Julia Fogassy also has a Paschal candle that is 10" tall and comes with incense grains and stickers. It's part of the Baptismal Kit but the candle can be bought separately for just $10.95. You can see an image of it on the Our Father's House website. I can personally attest to it's loveliness. Jenn did you see it at the 4 Real conference a few years ago? |
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I have it and it is lovely. I bought it when she also had the lovely candleholder. The candle was part beeswax, too. It's our centerpiece for Easter display, and I only just put it away.
MicheleQ wrote:
| Another thing we’ve used in the past (it’s been a rough few years and we’ve gotten slack in certain things as we’ve tried to adjust to our new lifestyle) is the Patmos book Evening Prayerbook: Sunday Vespers. This is a really beautiful book and such a beautiful way to be united to the prayer of the Church. I like it a lot. We also use the Night Prayerbook: Compline which it seems is unfortunately OOP. |
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One thing that I have always wanted to do is have our family pray the Divine Office, even if just one of the hours or just on feast days. You should see the collection of breviaries I've bought (used, of course). Having younger children I have been able to quite figure out when or how. This is quite helpful, and I've seen the book and was wowed by the beauty, but didn't know if I could put it into practical use. But I can see that even if I just adjusted to the Antiphon and Canticle and closing prayer from Evening Prayer I on Saturday and Evening Prayer II on Sunday, it would be a start. Thanks for the nudge.
MichelQ wrote:
Our new plan (thank you Jenn!) is to start with the vigil on Saturday evening. A special family dinner and celebration, lighting the candle (and incense) and finishing the evening with the Sunday Vigil Night prayer from the Compline book. Sunday will be leftovers and/or an easy dinner (that’s been prepared) laid back and relaxed, sometimes a time for visiting but truly a time when we really do try to avoid unnecessary work. We often will have a family soccer game or watch a movie or read stories and we’ll end Sunday with Vespers from the Evening Prayerbook. I should mention that with multiple children I think it’s best to shorten the prayers a bit and only take choice parts. We have generally done the entire thing but it's just too long for the littles. We’re still working out the details but right now the plan is just to do the Introductory Rite, hymn, canticle of Mary, intercessions, prayer and closing rite. We’ll see how it goes.
I realize this isn’t a plan that would work for everyone –it’s our plan for our family and we’re happy with it. We’re studying Dies Domini as a family right now are inspired by it in so many ways --like this quote, “Even in lay life, when possible, why not make provision for special times of prayer — especially the solemn celebration of Vespers, for example — or moments of catechesis, which on the eve of Sunday or on Sunday afternoon might prepare for or complete the gift of the Eucharist in people's hearts?” |
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Like the plan. Need to form one to our needs, especially when we're on the road. And I LOVE the quote.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Matilda
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 7:05am | IP Logged
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Jennifer,
I am sorry if my honesty caused you pain, although I can't imagine why, since my feelings were not leveled at you specifically, but rather the direction that the conversation was taking. I simply desired to enlighten those participating in it to the discouragement that it was producing in others and asked to refocus it on the original question which you yourself indicated needed to be restated for clarity's sake.
I have no desire to debate this issue either but since others have said that this discussion has given them food for thought, I would like to make a few points.
Nowhere in Dies Domini is Sunday referred to in terms of exclusivity within the liturgical calendar. The Holy Father refers to Sunday Liturgy in terms of "primacy", "sovereign", and "fundamental". When you consider his purpose for writing this letter, it's easy to see why he wouldn't discuss the incorporation of feast days in the "domestic church". JPII is writing to explain the necessary importance of people making Sunday a day of rest and fulfilling their obligation to celebrate the Liturgy instead of fulfilling their honey-do list at the Shrine of Home Depot.
Quote:
| Unfortunately, when Sunday loses its fundamental meaning and becomes merely part of a "weekend", it can happen that people stay locked within a horizon so limited that they can no longer see "the heavens".(7) Hence, though ready to celebrate, they are really incapable of doing so. |
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Quote:
| The disciples of Christ, however, are asked to avoid any confusion between the celebration of Sunday, which should truly be a way of keeping the Lord's Day holy, and the "weekend", understood as a time of simple rest and relaxation. |
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It seems dwelling on moving the celebration of a saints feast day for reasons of accommodating the liturgical calendar is all very legalistic as someone else mentioned much like the argument about women wearing veils which I know if a topic that has been cautioned against here in the past. If the Church prefers that people not engage in the cultural celebrations of a saint's day when that saint's day is superseded by a Sunday--why hasn't the Church said so?
As someone who is also trying to live Dies Domini, I don't think that celebrating a saint who is the special patron or beloved by a family is in anyway contrary to the Pope's intentions in this letter. Here is what the Holy Father says about the saints:
Quote:
| 78. Likewise, "in celebrating this annual cycle of the mysteries of Christ, the holy Church venerates with special love the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, united forever with the saving work of her Son". (122) In a similar way, by inserting into the annual cycle the commemoration of the martyrs and other saints on the occasion of their anniversaries, "the Church proclaims the Easter mystery of the saints who suffered with Christ and with him are now glorified". (123) When celebrated in the true spirit of the liturgy, the commemoration of the saints does not obscure the centrality of Christ, but on the contrary extols it, demonstrating as it does the power of the redemption wrought by him. |
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Now, I understand that he not referring to the insertion of the saints into the Sunday Liturgy, simply the annual cycle, but he goes on to say this about cultural traditions and popular piety:
Quote:
| 80. There is a need for special pastoral attention to the many situations where there is a risk that the popular and cultural traditions of a region may intrude upon the celebration of Sundays and other liturgical feast-days, mingling the spirit of genuine Christian faith with elements which are foreign to it and may distort it. In such cases, catechesis and well-chosen pastoral initiatives need to clarify these situations, eliminating all that is incompatible with the Gospel of Christ. At the same time, it should not be forgotten that these traditions and, by analogy, some recent cultural initiatives in civil society often embody values which are not difficult to integrate with the demands of faith. It rests with the discernment of Pastors to preserve the genuine values found in the culture of a particular social context and especially in popular piety, so that liturgical celebration above all on Sundays and holy days does not suffer but rather may actually benefit. (130) |
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Nowhere do I see him addressing the issue of families who choose to honor the saints in a way of keeping with the "spirit of the liturgy". He is simply trying to encourage "us from separating Sunday from the secular notion of "the weekend".
Regarding your question:
Quote:
| What about that little saying "What Would Jesus Do"? We are trying to enter the mindset of Jesus and the saints in learning by their example. We want to become saints, too, so wondering what they would do or think is part of asking "What would St. Nicholas do in this situation? |
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Living in the Bible Belt, I've heard that phrase over used ad nauseum, so I really don't think about it too much. I try to think about what is God asking me to do. Being pure love and pure goodness without an ounce of selfishness or spite, I don't think He would mind if my family celebrated and proclaimed "the Easter mystery of the saints who suffered with Christ and with him are now glorified" provided that precedence, not exclusivity, is given to the Sunday Liturgy. Besides, someone could make a pretty convincing argument that a saint would probably never celebrate his own feast day here on Earth although I imagine that they would have a rockin' good time in Heaven.
Please forgive me if I spoke too passionately about my concerns, but I thought friends of the heart would be able to respectfully listen to the concerns of another without taking those words as a personal attack. I did not take any of your words as a personal attack although the feelings they stirred up caused me to level attacks against myself and I also did not level my response against any one person in particular, but rather the direction of the conversation (regarding personal interpretation of the preferences of the Church) as a whole. And while the conversation has now pleasantly turned to the discussion of ways to make Sunday special in general within the family, that is a bit of a difference from even the modified original question you posted.
__________________
Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11, 10 , 9 & 5) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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donnalynn
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 8:42am | IP Logged
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I wanted to come back briefly and clarify that I was not trying to ask "loaded" questions or have any kind of negative tone - but I can see now where many questions could sound like an interrogation rather my intent of honestly trying to discern whether what was being talked about was *necessary*. This medium is hard.
The thread very quickly started including phrases like..."mind of the Church"...."obedience to the Church" (not direct quotes) and these kinds of phrases make anyone who is trying to live in accordance with Church teaching take notice.
Charlotte has helped so much in easing my concerns and confusion - thank you.
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donnalynn
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 8:47am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| But I can see that even if I just adjusted to the Antiphon and Canticle and closing prayer from Evening Prayer I on Saturday and Evening Prayer II on Sunday, it would be a start. |
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I did this about a year ago starting at Advent....and it's really do-able. Then changed the Antiphons for the season, etc. I picked the wording of the Compline that I thought would have the most understanding and meaning to the kids.
I got really specific about who is saying what....ie: "Child #1, #2, Dad, Mom, All, etc. Once you have "readers" in the family....the kids really love it! Maybe I can post it somewhere later.
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 9:45am | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
| I got really specific about who is saying what....ie: "Child #1, #2, Dad, Mom, All, etc. Once you have "readers" in the family....the kids really love it! Maybe I can post it somewhere later. |
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Suzanne that would be great --I'd love to see it!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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So, if i were to wait and introduce the Christ candle with the Advent wreath (we actually haven't had a Christ candle in the past since it is my husband's and he never had one before) and THEN introduce the Christ candle as the Sunday meal tradition...
...would I be procrastinating? Or would its emphasis be better understood?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Sept 29 2009 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| The whole vigil meal idea is really inspired! I'll have to run it by dh. It sounds like one of those things he might love in theory but practically, he doesn't like to stop working until late on Saturday nights because he's trying to cram everything in before Sunday. I'm not sure how it would work to try and stop to celebrate Sunday as a vigil only to hop up from the table to put in a couple more hours in the workshop or yard, yk? |
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It's definitely a challenge. Saturday is our big cleaning/work day here and we just try to make it so we are finished by dinnertime and then relax and "start Sunday". Studying Dies Domini together is helping us all to self examine and find more ways to keep the focus on Sunday and we're already pretty big on vigils here, especially since my kids realized that a Saturday solemnity means that even in Lent we can celebrate with a Friday vigil.
Quote:
| I have thought that preparing for every Sunday the same way I do if we are entertaining on Sunday (just on a smaller scale) would be nice. I usually am able to prepare most things so that the actual work on Sunday is minimal. My grandmother made a pot roast every Sunday for years. Granted, it was one of two dishes she knew how to make, but even though she wasn't much of a cook, after all that practice, she got pretty good at it. Anyway, I'm wondering if a nice pot roast in a crockpot wouldn't be easy to put together the day before (all the chopping veggies and browning meat) so that I could put it on first thing in the morning. |
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When I remember to use the crockpot it works well.
My current thinking is that I will be readjusting my Sat. so we can prepare a big meal (or order in or go out) for the vigil. Sat. meals are usually some kind of fun/extra thing anyway, I just want it to be more focused.
CrunchyMom wrote:
So, if i were to wait and introduce the Christ candle with the Advent wreath (we actually haven't had a Christ candle in the past since it is my husband's and he never had one before) and THEN introduce the Christ candle as the Sunday meal tradition...
...would I be procrastinating? Or would its emphasis be better understood?
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I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out the timing here. I am tempted to just start this week, explain what we're doing and go from there. But I'd love to hear other thoughts for introducing the candle.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Keeping Sundays a Priority
