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LML22
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Do you think being too traditional can be problematic? Our family is struggling with finding compatable friends for our dc, and we think it is because we are too traditional/strict. We attend the Latin Mass only, wear dresses all of the time, don't watch many movies, don't listen to rock music, basically not into the "pop culture" at all. My children are lonely and feel like the odd man out. We only know one other family that lives like us and they are far away (over an hour). We do know other hs families that are Catholic, but they wear pants, watch most movies, listen to secular music, etc. I don't want my dc to resent the faith because they are so different. Anyone have any experience or ideas? Has anyone ever loosened up their standards some after being super strict?
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JodieLyn
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I think it's always easier to relax your rules than to tighten them up.
You might want to consider why you are doing what you're doing and if the outward things, like skirts is necessary for your family. Or if it's necessary to find friends that are the same as you.
We have friends who wear skirts only and we wear them sometimes but not only. And neither they nor we have had any problems from that.
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Stephanie_Q
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I think that trying to live counter-culturally in this world can be problematic. My kids are pretty young and we already have problems with other kids from Catholic families who are much more lenient than us...and I feel like we are pretty worldly when it comes to a lot of things. We have tried loosening up our standards a little to fit in better, like letting the girls watch Disney princess movies and play with my old Barbies (which has turned them into spoiled princesses); or letting the boys watch Thomas the Train b/c all the little boys we know watch Thomas (I just can't stand the emphasis on having to be "useful"). Whenever I've 'given in' I've regretted it.
They are all pretty young, close together in age so they can play together, but still feel the absence of having friends...so it is hard to hold fast to our conviction that while they have to be able to go out and be salt & light - eventually - they need to be properly formed in their early years before they are gently introduced to the culture that they (we) are called to transform. It is especially difficult when so many other parents say, "What's the big deal? Just let them have/do/watch xyz".
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LML22
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some of our dc are teens. We are finding the dress issue and not wearing makeup an issue as well as the movie stuff. They feel very odd.
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JodieLyn
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Teens are difficult.. not that I'm there yet  .. but they are transitioning from doing stuff because mom and dad say, to doing things because it's something they think they should be doing.
Perhaps, if you shared with your teens why you choose to be counter-cultural in these things, and let them do some research for themselves, it wouldn't be so hard for them?
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Helen
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If we take on certain practices because they help us to live out our Christian life with greater meaning, I would call these practices mortifications or activities which lead to mental prayer.
I don't think I would call these practices strict or traditional.
The reason for mortifications, penances, and suffering is to open our hearts to converse with God and to love Him more. With these practices, our minds turn to the Lord who loved us so much that He was willing to take on Human Flesh and die on a Cross. If in our religious practices we forget to see the Lord's face, we may begin to regard them as only strict or traditional.
Virtue is habit which has grown customary. It is good to inculcate habits which may be opposed to the prevailing culture. Be sure to include an equal amount of prayer to the practices. The Lord is not a slave driver -- but the Psalmist reminds us that He does reward us according to our deeds.
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Jen L.
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I am far far far from an expert on this, but I have noticed one thing: My friend has really talked to her kids and given things for them to read so that they can "make it their own" - especially as they get older. This is in contrast to parents that dictate without reason. Don't get me wrong - there are still rules but also a dialogue. Hope this makes sense!
eta: I forgot to say that the reason that I mentioned my friend is that she has 8 kids - 4 of them high school and college and all show no signs of leaving the faith or rebelling (sp?) in other ways. She also takes every opportunity to teach them about the gifts of their faith.
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Helen
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When I referred to mortifications as activities which lead to mental prayer, I was thinking of Our Lady of Fatima. She encouraged the children to offer their sacrifices with the words,
For the love of God, conversion of sinners, and sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Our Lady's words tie into Jen's suggestion too. Giving children the words of Our Lady and the example of the Fatima children help today's children "make it their own."
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folklaur
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that is so hard.
i totally understand you not wanting to do anything to compromise your beliefs.
how old are your teens? do they desire any "loosening" of the standards you have set? or do they only want it to "fit in"?
i guess, for me, i think about the fact that part of our jobs as parents is to raise our children to be responsible adults. depending on their age - when they are teens - they are edging ever closer to young adulthood. eventually, they will need to make some of these types of choices themselves.
it often seems like that the closer they get to adulthood, the tighter we as parents want to hold on - at least i know it felt like that for DH and me sometimes wrt our oldest.
i know there are many good catholic - and even non-catholic - families whose standards are different from ours - some are more strict, and some less so. is there a reason behind not wanting to associate with other who do not 'live like you' (as you mentioned in your OP)?
and prayers for you as you discern what is best for your family.
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Kathryn
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I'm not sure how much wisdom I have to offer since I don't have teens yet but I do talk quite a bit about the how and why of many things...dressing modestly, filling our mind and hearts with goodness vs. things that are against our beliefs which goes along with what we listen to in music and what we watch on tv. When your children get together with the other HS families, do they HAVE to listen to music, watch tv etc? If they want to watch a movie, can you have one already pre-selected? If you don't do tv at all, then surely there is some common ground to be found or are your teens being teens and just starting to question and move toward their own independence and identity separate from yours? No matter what value system parents have, don't most teens go thru a phase of seeking more independence from mom and dad and the family unit...even if it's not a rebellious stage? May be they are just trying to own the value system and it does feel odd but we don't jeopardize our morals and values because sometimes it feels odd.
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LML22
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We do know and associate with other Catholic hs who are not like us. HOwever, our dc feel like they don't fit. They usually don't watch movies together or listen to music but the teens certainly talk about it together. We do talk to our dc about the choices we have made. They just haven't really made close friendships with any of these people because of the differences and thus feel lonely. (one teen in particular)
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Kathryn
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Have you ever listened to Dr. Ray on Catholic radio? I've heard him address this on several occasions. He also has his website with some sound bites or reading relating to this exact situation. Hope that helps...
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Martha
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cactus mouse wrote:
i know there are many good catholic - and even non-catholic - families whose standards are different from ours - some are more strict, and some less so. is there a reason behind not wanting to associate with other who do not 'live like you' (as you mentioned in your OP)?
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I second this.
I think it's important to remember that what God is calling you to might not be what he is calling another to do. Outside of sin or dividing/hurting my family, I would hesitate to restrict friendships to only those live my way. It saddens me. 
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Martha
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LML22 wrote:
| We do know and associate with other Catholic hs who are not like us. HOwever, our dc feel like they don't fit. They usually don't watch movies together or listen to music but the teens certainly talk about it together. We do talk to our dc about the choices we have made. They just haven't really made close friendships with any of these people because of the differences and thus feel lonely. (one teen in particular) |
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You must have cross posted with me.
Are they in any outside activities where they can meet kids? My son loves music, so I'm putting him in choir and drama. Hope he will meet some other kids that like music too. Another likes chess. Another likes building things. Just a thought.
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Martha
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JodieLyn
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So is it really even about your rules and standards? or is it really about wanting a close friend? Have they prayed for God to bring them a friend? Have they looked at themselves, if they're pushing away friends who don't care what they wear because they're so focused on it being the unltimate cause?
Is there a way to stay in closer contact with that other family? or another family perhaps through the internet where the kids can at least make a friend to talk to even if they're not able to hang out together?
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Bookswithtea
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JodieLyn wrote:
So is it really even about your rules and standards? or is it really about wanting a close friend? Have they prayed for God to bring them a friend? Have they looked at themselves, if they're pushing away friends who don't care what they wear because they're so focused on it being the unltimate cause?
Is there a way to stay in closer contact with that other family? or another family perhaps through the internet where the kids can at least make a friend to talk to even if they're not able to hang out together? |
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This is what I was just thinking. Teens do sometimes go through lonely times, and they are often apt to blame it on the easiest target (dresses or Latin mass make a convenient target).
You can pm me if you like...
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Paula in MN
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This is a very interesting topic. I've struggled with these issues with my children. My kids have another parent they spend alternate weekends with, and have a very different lifestyle, along with a lack of rules.
I've only homeschooled five years, and my views about clothes, movies, etc. have changed drastically. My oldest is now 26, and she had every toy imaginable, along with every movie. She has not made good choices, and I blame myself for some of the choices she made, because those choices were made on what she learned and didn't learn from me.
I'm doing my best to make sure that doesn't happen with my other children. Looking back, I can see that many of the movie and TV choices I made for all my kids were awful. And as Jodie stated, it is much harder to tighten up the rules rather than relax them. I know I'm doing the right thing, because even though my kids are able to watch icky movies and TV shows on those alternate weekends, within the last year they have made the choice not to. I'm very proud of them.
We live 10-15 miles from any friends, and some of them wear skirts and some wear jeans and some wear short shorts. My kids know what I think is okay to wear, and again while they have the choice to wear other clothes at a different house, they don't.
It has taken several years to correct MY choices, but it has worked. And I'm glad it's been done before the teenage years hit.
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LML22
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JodieLyn wrote:
So is it really even about your rules and standards? or is it really about wanting a close friend? Have they prayed for God to bring them a friend? Have they looked at themselves, if they're pushing away friends who don't care what they wear because they're so focused on it being the unltimate cause?
Is there a way to stay in closer contact with that other family? or another family perhaps through the internet where the kids can at least make a friend to talk to even if they're not able to hang out together? |
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Actually, it is not so much about our rules and standards. They agree with most of it. HOWEVER, they feel like they don't have a close friend due to these beliefs. They feel left out of the talk because the other kids will be talking about this band or that movie (that we don't do) and so they don't feel like they don't have much in common. My ds mentioned some music that he likes and the other kids laughed and said it was awful music. Doesn't make a teen feel real good when that happens. Also, a lot of these kids do video games/Wii and we don't. My dc like to talk about their hobbies (musical instruments and building/animal projects) and most of the talk is over guitar hero or something like that. It gets frustrating to them.
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sewcrazy
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I have teens. 
My rules are not as strict as yours are, especially with my teens, but we are not "main stream" either. My boys have had good luck inviting kids here that they want to become friends with. To many teens, living without Play Station, constant TV, loud music and such is foriegn. They have no idea how to amuse themselves! Many realize that they actually enjoy hanging out here and finding things to do, instead off the false entertainment provided by electronics. We involve the teens in them in our family, they play card games, fishing has become the new favorite pastime this summer as are long bike rides. We are now the "cool house" to hang out at. 
It did take time, and trial and error. But eventually each of my sons have developed a small network of close friends and a larger group to hang out with.
Good luck to you and your children!
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LeeAnn
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JodieLyn
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I was just thinking along the lines of LeeAnn..
Quote:
| They feel left out of the talk because the other kids will be talking about this band or that movie (that we don't do) and so they don't feel like they don't have much in common. My ds mentioned some music that he likes and the other kids laughed and said it was awful music. |
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This type of thing will happen more in a group. So if you can invite kids over and get them into a one on one situation, they'll have much better luck at being able to talk with one another. Being sure to have something they can do, card games or basketball and hoop or something so that they can be busy and work out talking to each other with less awkwardness.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: too traditional
