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Sarah M
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| Posted: May 09 2009 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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I think I've picked a silly fight with my 7yo dd. Several of her friends are into Hannah Montana, and I won't let dd watch it. It's become one of those every-single-day-"why can't I watch it? what's wrong with it? everybody else gets to watch it!"-things.
A good friend pointed out to me that this dd tends to be naturally prudent and discerning, and perhaps if I had just let her watch one or two episodes without chiming in about "twaddle" or "pop culture", she likely would have noticed how dumb it is and not pursued it. But now I've made it *forbidden* and therefore very very attractive...
So what do I do? Do I let her watch it?
Do you let your kids watch it?
Do I stand my ground?
I'm not sure there's anything overtly bad about Hannah Montana- I just don't like the idea of pop culture seeping into my home.
I really wish I hadn't made it such an issue in the first place.
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CrunchyMom
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I don't think you can do the "what if" thing. I mean, what if she'd watched it and loved it and decided she wanted to be just like her? I'm just sayin' that while your friend may have a point, your initial reasons for not choosing to have it in your home aren't necessarily discounted.
Personally, I think that not liking the idea of pop culture seeping in your home is legitimate and it doesn't have to be overtly bad to avoid it. Sometimes Satan succeeds by merely keeping us from the *best* things when he knows we won't choose the worst.
But then again, I'm not much for the "forbidden fruit" theory. I mean, God did it to Adam and Eve. Yes they succumbed to the temptation, but I figure that if letting them have a little taste so they don't eat the whole tree worked, God might have done it that way? Idk, it could also be the analogy that is faulty to my way of thinking rather than the concept--I don't intend to insult anyone who chooses to parent that way!
I think that if I allowed my child to watch something like that, I would not hide my disdain for it. I'd be sure they knew I thought it was a waste of time(boy, I wish my parents had been more discerning this way! I think I would have respected their opinion had they told me some of the junk I wasted time on was really junk!). I don't see myself letting my daughter watch it, personally, but I don't have a daughter. I kind of think my boys are easier to distract than a girl since I know how obsessive, er, I mean focused I can be on getting what I want. 
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teachingmyown
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Agreeing 100% with Lindsay!
Perhaps, a time limit on the amount of tv allowed per day/week with the thought that she needs to discern if she wants to waste her time on such twaddle. Basically, make her choose between something she already enjoys and this show. Then, as Lindsay says, make it clear that you think it is silly. Watch it with her and discuss it. My kids have seen things at the dentist, like Sponge Bob and some other silly show, and were really appalled at how stupid they were!
We don't have tv and I haven't seen it, so I am only saying this if you decide that it is more an issue of twaddly pop culture rather than content that is truly damaging to your child. My girls have seen High School Musical, which I feel is both twaddly and harmless. We don't own it and it has passed through their lives without leaving much impact. They don't ask for clothing or posters or any of that silliness. That is where I draw the line anyway.
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Kathryn
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My 10 yo DD and 8 yo DS have tried to watch the show on occassion. I guess I have never said "no Hannah Montana" but I've told them that the show is more appropriate for teenagers. It kind of goes along with most of those Disney shows. There is def. that pop culture that seeps into their brains and I try to keep them from becoming fanatical about any pop culture icons so we don't buy the shirts, the dolls, the plates, the toys or go to the movies about them and allll that other stuff that is sold with her image on there. I just think it can become such an obsession about any of that pop culture stuff.
From what I've seen on the shows, for the most part, it does seem "innocent" enough but there have been some shows where the characters are overly concerned about their appearance and boys and dating and clothes and those are ideas I don't want my 8 and 10 yo concerned about (or as young teenagers either really). When I've seen those things I remind them about what we believe or I ask questions such as: should she be so concerned about what someone else thinks of her or should she be thinking about dating at 15? But then don't even get me started on the commercials that are shown during these shows!! That's enough to make me turn them off. I don't think you're out of line to say no to a 7 yo but if you feel you must then watch it with her. If my kids keep harassing me about something I've told them is a no, then there's a consequence such as grounding, sentences, time out or whatever. From my experience, they sense our wavering on the issue and that's why they keep bringing it up.
Hope that helps,
Kathryn
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ALmom
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What you did was make a prudential decision - thinking of your dd and making a call. You don't have to look back as someone else said. But perhaps it would help to weigh certain factors into the whole mix for future decisions like this (they will become increasingly frequent as she grows) -
Personality strengths and weaknesses of the child. Is this child prone to being heavily influenced by peer pressure, have a very strong bent for belonging or is this child just curious and tempermentally very discerning. (At 7 it is harder to tell and sometimes being safer is better, because frankly it is easier to soften up than to take away previously allowed activities). Which comes to another question - maturity, ability to stand up against the peers (ie has this child already demonstrated a willingness to stand on principle even when everyone else disagrees or is it just stubborness in which case she can develop equally stubborn opinions against your teaching as with them. Another consideration is how often have you said no and is it time to pick your battles, so to speak. Is this something worth bending on and can we turn it into a fruitful learning experience or not?
What is the worst that could happen if you allow it and what is the worst if you don't. (Ie with Hannah Montanna, you seem to indicate that the worst that could happen is that she becomes attracted to pop culture and where that leads over time, recognizing her vulnerable age). When you said no, is the worst that can happen that she will be sort of mad at you for a few weeks and have to wait till she is older to watch this. (Some of my dd tease me about our rule on ear piercing - very minor, really but they had to wait till 18. I do not regret that rule, but clearly know it is not an earth shattering thing and would not have caused terrible harm had we allowed it earlier. We had a different reason relating to our whole attitude towards medical proceedures and for us to sign would have been inconsistent. We were demonstrating to our children our own willingness to stand up on principals - something you seem to imply is part of your decision making process in Hannah Montana. They knew we didn't think ear piercing was horrible or terribly dangerous and we clearly acknowledged this (ie risks are very minor) and I think they respected us even while they disagreed with us. Our decision might have been different if we had not had to sign a consent form and they were sufficiently mature and had the funds to pay for it themselves, but I'm glad they had something as innocent as ear piercing to look forward to when they were 18.
How important is it in the scheme of things and how will it effect eternity - and how likely is it to cause harm?
Do you know why the child wanted to watch it? This also plays into the equation. If there reason is simply an indication of sucumbing to their own individual weak tendencies, then I might have more reason to say no. Because everyone else is, is not a very good reason. To learn how to critique pop culture might be - provided that the child is, in your and your dh evaluation, ready for that and would be open and responsive to your guidance in maybe evaluating it together (ie you have significant confidence that this will help them see the truth). I know nothing of Hannah Montanna (we are pretty much out of it in a lot of ways and our dd are older now but there were many of these type questions that came up over time so I really could not advise directly - nor could I tell you anything about your own children's inclinations, nor the seriousness of the issue.
I did have a wonderful priest remind me that it is necessary for our children to learn from their own mistakes in small matters (not in anything that would create a potential life altering harm, nor anything endangering their eternal salvation. To set something up where they will really regret it like they must spend hard earned money to watch this with you - and then live with the fact that it was a waste of money type thing if it is truely not harmful.
However, the advice was given to me was for a 12/13 yo which is definitely much different than a 7 yo who has very little experience in the realm of reasoning (7/8 is considered the age of discretion) ie when that is just developing in a mature sort of way and that has to be factored into the decisions you make as well. Your child has had very little time to absorb the good lessons you are trying to instill and is just at the age of discretion. You may need to be her discernment for a few years and there is nothing wrong with that. It might be better for her to make decisions more like whether to wear her white shoes to the park or whether or not she takes her favorite doll to the mud pit.
Ultimately the call is one of prudential judgement and it is you and your husband who are given those graces. Your friend gave you some things to think about, but only you know how likely that scenario is. Also this is only one incident in a lifetime of guidance and the single yes or no answer is not likely to make a difference. If your dd is very strong willed, she is likely to let you know why she wants to see this and at some time you can always take that into account. Then you would have to discern if backing down is teaching begging and whining. Personally, when we decided we needed to soften a decision, we waited until the child had gracefully submitted to our authority and then let them know that their willingness to abide by our rules even when they didn't understand them told us that they had grown in maturity and discernment and we'd like to talk to them about .... What was it that was so attractive to them, etc. We could then reconsider without reinforcing the badgering.
Janet
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Servant2theKing
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I would be concerned about children of any age idolizing or emulating a popular figure like Hannah Montana. I'd be especially concerned over why the parents of your dd's friends allow such young children to watch Hannah Montana or any other "stars" of that ilk...seems a little mature for such young children, but then I wouldn't encourage watching her at any age. Where is our culture headed when 7yo children, just reaching the age of reason, have the mentality that they NEED to be exposed to TV idols like Hannah Montana? The fact that her image is portrayed on countless products, which additionally promote a consumerist mindset, is of further concern. If parents can't tell their children that those are not good role models at age 7, who will their children be seeking out or emulating in their teen years?
It seems more appropriate for us as Catholic parents to guide our children toward fitting role models, like our Blessed Mother and the saints. Shouldn't a 7yo be thinking of preparing for First Holy Communion, rather than focusing on the latest pop idol? It also seems fitting to focus on teaching young children that their bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, not something to be adorned in a worldly manner or fashion that could eventually serve as an occasion of sin for themselves or others. I often ask myself what would Mary do? I'm pretty certain the Blessed Mother would not promote Hannah Montana!
Sarah, you have not picked a fight with your dear daughter...she is simply testing the boundaries of your parental authority and is probably confused because her friends' parents seem to have different limits than those you have set for your family. Years ago I read an excellent article entitled "Hold Fast". The mother who wrote the piece described a very difficult time she was having with one of her younger teenage daughters who kept insisting she just had to have a leather mini-skirt, like all her friends. The discord between mother and daughter reached a difficult point, where the mother was filled with self-doubt, when her daughter finally stomped off to her room following a particularly ugly fight over the subject. Later the mother was astonished when her daughter came to her in tears and confessed, "I was afraid you were going to give in"! The author's main point was that parents need to hold fast with their children, even when they challenge healthy, loving boundaries which they have set for them. Firstborns can be strong-willed and often test parental boundaries the most, since they and their parents are traveling yet uncharted waters as a family. My now married daughter has often reminded me through the years, "Be confident in your parenting"! It's tough to do, especially when it sometimes seems like the whole world is doing things differently.
Sarah, you are being a good mother to your daughter by caring enough to guide and protect her! I vote for lovingly standing your ground and for finding a healthy, wholesome alternative to divert your daughter's attention away from the subject that has been so divisive between you. Have a blessed Mother's Day!
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Becky Parker
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I don't let my dd watch it. She does have a cd that a friend gave to her. I let her listen to it in the car one day and my dd said "Mom, all her songs are about herself!" I was surprised she picked up on that but when I listened to the lyrics, I found she was right. Everything is "I do", "I am" "I have" etc. I got my dd a cd by a Christian artist (Brit Nicole)and that's what she listens to now instead. To be honest, I don't know that much about Brit Nicole but the lyrics to her songs seem better and she's not so much in that "worldly crowd" if that makes sense. I think if there is an alternative that you and your dd can find, that you agree is acceptable and she agrees is "cool enough" or whatever, that's a win-win.
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mayappleridge
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I tell my kids that there are so many good shows on tv that we all agree on why not just watch them.
Hannah Montana is of course not an issue here as my older two are boys, they'd prefer to watch the clone wars anyway.
I'm watching this thread with interest, how do you reply to the constant begging?
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Mimip
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Just wanted to tell you that Hannah Montana is not allowed at my house. We do watch tv but none of those types of shows are allowed. My DD ages 9 and 7 sometimes complain that other kids watch them at their ages and I say the normal "They aren't in the _______ family"
BTW I have watched those types of shows and my biggest problem is the total lack of respect they give any adult figure. Adults are made out to be just people to defy and or laugh at 
IMHO 
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SuzanneG
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We don't watch Hannah Montana....we didn't even know it was a TV show  ....I thought she was a singer with her face on a bunch of ugly backpacks and shirts.
Everybody has made great points already. We wouldn't watch it, but that's only US with the temperaments "so far" of our girls. I think both options that you have are all good and a place for your parenting and her growth to flourish!!!!!
I have 2 additional things to add....
1. I don't think it's a BAD IDEA to watch one episode with her (see additional comments below) but the NAGGING factor has to be addressed. If you do decide to let her watch an episode, I would say, "Your dad and I will consider watching one episode with you...HOWEVER, we will NOT even consider this until you stop nagging about it for 7 days. (explain nagging if this isn't a common term in your house).
then....
2. If you do end up letting her watch an episode....have it be with dad (or both of you if you can find someone to watch the other two)....since you've already been the "heavy"....let him talk about and reinforce with her WHY you BOTH think it's a complete waste of time and not appropriate for a 7yo. Also, let there be a natural consequence to HER CHOICE to watch it:
"OK, well, your dad and I have decided that you can watch an episode of HM, just so you can see what it is, since your friends are talking about it. But, if you choose to watch this 30 minutes of HM, you are giving up something else during that day/week: ice cream with your brother, playtime w/neighbor, going roller skating with neighbor) game time w/mom, or going for a walk."
(List only things that she loves....and things that you can conveniently skip w/out it affecting others...basically things SHE loves to do). Our choies have consequences, if we do stupid-thing-A, then we can't do great-thing-B.....quite a good lesson in time mgmt.
And, then make sure that you are TALKING about why this show is a waste of time or downright bad (I don't know...never seen it) .....and again, maybe dad or both of you should do it.
"There are a million other things that you could be doing, not approp for a 7 yo, disrespectful, crazy clothes, etc. "
And, this IS a big deal, Sarah, it's not just about HM....she's testing you, being influenced by friends who don't share your values....etc. There's a lot going on here.......so, lots of talk/problem-solving with dh is imp....even if he thinks your blowing things out of proportion .
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LeeAnn
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What Suzanne said!
We have gone through this recently with our 11yo wanting to read the Twilight vampire books. "All" her friends (including those at church but not those in our hs group) have read them. Hannah Montana is not an option here--we don't get Disney Channel--a deliberate choice to limit the kids' options although it meant giving up some grown-up channels we liked (A&E, etc).
The persistent nagging thing is very frustrating though. There was a quote inside a teacher's manual I was looking through lately attributed to Susannah Wesley--something like "give no child that which he cries for"--basically, don't teach that whining gets good results.
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LeeAnn
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| Posted: May 11 2009 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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Oh, forgot to add, the girl playing HM, Miley Cyrus, is "growing up" quick. There was that whole semi-nude (or appearance of nudity) photo shoot thing. Not a person you'd want your daughter to emulate, I don't think. My other objection is that it teaches kids to get into the "cult of celebrity" and the materialism that goes with it. Drives me bonkers when my kids will recognize "famous" pop stars or actors on the covers of magazines in the stores. They have seen the High School Musical movies. Now of course those kids are growing up and moving onto more adult projects.
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: May 11 2009 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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LeeAnn wrote:
| Now of course those kids are growing up and moving onto more adult projects. |
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This is such a good point, especially in light of the fact that so many of these young adults make such sad life decisions. I don't want my kids to feel a connection with these actors/actresses and then see their names all over the magazines at the checkout stands talking about their bad behavior.
Kind of a tangent here, but I find it maddening that the cable companies do not allow you to pick and choose exactly which channels you want instead of forcing "packages" on you. If we could do this, we might subscribe to cable.
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4 lads mom
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We saw Hannah Montana in the waiting room of one of the many clinics we have to frequent....and it was so twaddly and silly. I am lucky to have four big boys that just role their eyes at such silly stuff, they'll keep Lily straight without me having to say one word!! I don't quite get the whole attraction....
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Barbara C.
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I agree that I wouldn't give in to the whining. You've made your decision and she needs to live with it.
That being said...I guess I'm one of those terrible parents because my girls watch Hannah Montana. Most episodes are just silly. And yes they are twaddle. But I'm one of those parents, too, that is hesitant about defining things as "twaddle" because you never know where you might find the starting point for a rabbit trail. (I believe Rose Kennedy once said something similar.)
I do watch the episodes with them. And if there is something that seems too much I use it as a teaching moment about what our family feels is appropriate or inappropriate. This is true of most all shows that we watch. We probably watch more television, too, than many of the families on this board.
Either way, Hannah Montana is soon to be a thing of the past. I believe this is the last season...since Miley Cyrus wants to concentrate on her solo career.
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Sarah M
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Thanks for all the feedback. I'm thinkin' and prayin' on it. Will let you know what we decide to do. 
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Bella
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Sarah,
You have gotten some great advice here! 
I'm gonna butt in with my .02 also!!
My dds are early and late tweens. Yes, during times of long winter months and illness, I have watched HM-and listened to her.  If I were to do it over again- I would have NEVER let ANYTHING Disney into our home or car.
Since I can't take back the past...I can pray that others get something from our experiences. I do think 7yo is much to young to watch anything Disney-even HM. Aside from the twaddle factor, the disrespectful attitudes towards siblings,parents,and friends....I loathed the boyfriend/girlfriend themes so prevalent on most of the shows and in her lyrics. It would be *somewhat* easier to sit with your DD and watch it together, followed by a discussion, if she were older(as we did). But she is 7! I would be afraid that she would get too desensitized(sp?) to the boy/girl thing, the clothes,the early sexualization of females, the cutesy(gag me) disrespectful tones,etc..KWIM?
We each know our dc best, for me, my battles are ALL things pop-culture,clothes,and twaddle books and music. None of that is going to 100% promise that my dc grow up with my values-but at least I did the best I could-I put my foot down out of love....not fear.
As someone wise here at 4Real once told me...if she is testing your authority and convictions NOW, what will she be doing when she is 15?
Good luck!! I will pray for you! The evil one wants to invade every home, coming in whatever window he can-be strong!!
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Bella
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Bookswithtea
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Fwiw, we don't do HM, here. I disdained it and made fun of it when it became a fad, without letting them watch it. Stuff like, "Oh, those silly shows...and look how its on every backpack and t shirt in town!"  Usually that works. If it doesn't, I sit down with them and spell out exactly what bothers me, and use scripture or direction from the Church in simple ways to point out why we skip it. We are talking more and more around here lately about what it means to be countercultural. My girls (12, 9, 6) are asking about why we do things differently a lot, and I want them to be internally convicted of the same. Its hard. I don't know if its going well or not, but I am trying...
My sil allowed Britney Spears when she was a sweet little girl on the Disney Channel. And then forever regretted it when Spears made a train wreck of her life after her dd idolized her. Lindsay Lohan is another example. One of the main reasons I don't do any Disney shows beyond things like Winnie the Pooh is because I just don't know what choices these girls are going to make in the future. Some of my girls are more susceptible to peer pressure than others, and I don't want to make it harder for them.
Sarah, honestly, I'd stand strong on your word if for no ther reason than being careful not to set a precedent for changing your mind on stuff like this. Since she's bugging a lot, I would tell her that you will watch a few shows (without her) and then get back to her (I had to do this with another child with the Drake and Josh show  ). Then give her a list of all the kinds of things (consumerism, me-ism, objectification of people, etc) that make the show not appropriate for your family, and then the next time she brings it up, tell her the discussion is over and you aren't listening...
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Maggie
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Sarah,
I love what Servant2theKing said. Ditto.
Also, I just don't agree with the concept that you can let a 7yo watch and episode or two and think that she will discover what kind of twaddle it is and of course, then turn it off! I just don't think we, as parents, can put that pressure on our young kids to make those decisions.
You went with your gut. You are her mother and you had to make the decision you did. I know it is hard with the backlash that you are receiving from her...but this is only 1 of many many issues that are coming your way.
There are so many better tv shows to watch...why waste her precious time on that.
She's nagging you because she thinks you'll eventually crack...I think.
Pray to our Blessed Mother.
God Bless,
Maggie
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mariB
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| Posted: May 14 2009 at 5:12am | IP Logged
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Oh boy...now I really feel guilty!!!
Actually, we never watched any of these things until our kids were asked to (they are in the entertainment business).
This was the most difficult thing for me...our three boys...no interest...but we have a 5 and 9 year old and they were totally interested. Now I don't let them watch it.
For me the pop culture is so overwhelming! It is seeping everywhere! I am always on my knees about the direction of our boys...my gut says this is what they want to do and why not have a Catholic family involved? Our whole family is constantly praying about this! They've had so many opportunities to witness about our Catholic faith to their producers and people around them.
As a kid I was never into any teen idols or any of that nonsense! I have such a disdain for it. But you know, God is so good....I know our children will be led to the right direction because His concern is ultimately for our children's souls! You parents are so right to first and foremost protect your children's souls!
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marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Hannah Montana
