| Author | |
Red Cardigan
Forum Pro
Joined: June 16 2007
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 470
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 5:45pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I'm not much in favor of vaccines; that is, of routine mandatory childhood immunization.
That said, I read this news article yesterday about the Gardasil vaccine and parents who suspect their daughters' injuries or deaths  which closely followed vaccination were caused by the shot.
Wouldn't do that one anyway, for my girls. But this quote from the article demonstrates one of the frustrating things about vaccines:
"In a perfect world, a doctor suspecting a vaccine injury files a medical report with the government's vaccine adverse event reporting system (VAERS) on the patient's behalf; for a serious or complicated case, the doctor would then follow up to determine if the patient's individual case can be investigated by a researcher from the government's clinical immunization safety assessment network. Parents, too, should be able to get some answers directly from the government or vaccine maker to find out what's being done to determine whether the vaccine is the culprit of their child's illness. But, based on my interviews, that's not usually the way the process goes. [...]
"The truth is, though, that Merck isn't solely to blame for these parents' frustrations. Some doctors refuse to file VAERS reports at all, and sometimes the reports contain incomplete or ambiguous information. Tarsell says she's heard from a few parents via her website who said their doctors don't believe Gardasil could have caused their daughters' medical problems. In Tarsell's case, the physician who filed the VAERS report wrote that the autopsy report found that her daughter died of an inflammation of the spleen caused by a life-threatening virus. While the autopsy did find some minor inflammation of the spleen, the report concluded that the death was due to "cardiac arrest, cause undetermined."
"When unaided by vaccine makers or doctors who administer the immunization, parents are largely left on their own to research whether the vaccine could truly be the culprit. Some turn to the government's VAERS database for clues, but that often leads to yet more frustration. Tarsell says she had to file a Freedom of Information Act request to get her daughter's complete VAERS report and found only the sketchiest of details about other girls who died after Gardasil vaccinations. After repeated phone calls to government officials, she's since learned that she could have filled out this form to get her daughter's report without going through the prolonged FOIA process. Still, parents who are searching for others can't see anyone else's full reports."
Doctors refuse to file VAERS reports, doctors refuse to consider a vaccine's role in a child's injury or death, parents run into all sorts of problems trying to get information--and yet the standard line is "Vaccines are safe and effective, period." with no data to help people figure that out on their own.
Vaccine testing, safety tracking, and efficacy data is all woefully lacking, but parents who refuse vaccination are accused of being anti-science. 
__________________
http://www.redcardigan.blogspot.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aussieannie
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 21 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7251
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We do not vaccinate, we reasearched the subject before the birth of our first child. We do not believe the vacs work at all, but better hygiene is the issue. We had a book that quoted extensively from the prestigious medical journals themselves, just that these studies didn't get the media coverage due to results that were not pro-vacc.
teachingmom wrote:
| Dr Sears says in the book that I referenced, that if you decide not to vaccinate, it might be a good idea not to convince all your neighbors not to vaccinate as well. It is kind of tongue and cheek, but his point is that many vaccines are in the public interest and if everyone decided against it, some diseases would come back. |
|
|
I think it is very worrying tactics used by the medical establishment to say that it is unvacc. children fuelling some of the childhood diseases. That is their theory. There is no proof for it, so it shouldn't be said. As I stated before, I don't personally believe they work and if they are not effective (in otherwords, there are continual disease outbreaks) it is so unfair for the doctors without proof, to then lay the blame at the feet of those who object for a good reason. Dr Sear's statement doesn't say that directly but it is an easy conclusion to take from it.
In Australia a decade ago they had only 50% compliance and then the new gov at the time through parenting payments got the levels up to 95% but it didn't change the natural cycle of measles, whooping cough and it's rates but it was reported last year that other childhood conditions that some would believe are connected to vacc. have gone through the roof in the last decade alone, in rises not seen like that before. It is my thought that there is a connection, others may not agree.
I also think it wrong that in Aus they can now prevent people from studying in the health sector if they have not received the Hep B shots. My sister who studied nursing last year cannot develop immunity with the shots, much to her disappointment and she is not the only one. Her best friend who studied with her is in the same boat. What should happen here? Should these people be told to leave? This is all such an imprecise science, no guarantees I'm afraid.
My sister has also developed a life-threatening allergic reaction since last year, it has happened on three occasions and never occured before the shots. Naturally with my position on vaccs, I wonder.
There is a homeschooling mother in Aus whose husband now has a degenerative disease that started up immediately after receiving the Hep B shot that had become mandatory in his work field. He can no longer work, they live on a disability pension and they believe it was caused/triggered by the vacc.
My main point with sharing some of those personal stories is that people MUST have free will in such serious issues as this. Those who are conscientious objectors are so for a very good reason. That must be respected and they should not be discriminated against. My sister is also not pro-vacc. but she desperately wanted to become a nurse, in her case she was prepared to take the risk, one that she regrets. Dh has recently entered the aged care sector and we would have preferred for him to undergo study in order to receive a better rate of pay, but it would require the Hep B shot, he will not risk it, it is so sad for us.
As far as tetnus concerns, we deal with wounds very carefully, bleeding them and bathing them well, we use natural products to soak and smear on. If I were really concerned, I'd put them on something natural, orally. We never let these thing go unattended.
This is a very personal decision. If people ask my opinion, I give it and they know it is something I feel strongly about for my family BUT I say that their decision should be made only based on their own research, not my opinion or anyone else's. That is paramount, because it is our loved ones we are making decisions for, those who are reliant on us. I want to make that decision myself and make it well.
I have friends who are in both camps and strongly. At the end of the day I answer only for my own children and their welfare. I don't have an issue with what others choose for their own families as it is not a moral/sinful issue.
I have one very close friend who vaccs. and I respect her in every way, we just don't agree on this issue, but she is making the decision she feels is best for her family and that is important that she can do that.
Beth, I suggest that you do as much research as possible, reading materials from both sides. In Aus we have a very good vacc. awareness group that is online, I imagine there would be similar organizations in the States.
__________________
Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CatholicMommy
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2007
Location: Indiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1254
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This website gives some alternatives to vaccinations (see the second article further down). It is also where I first learned about the connection to AIDS, which I later studied further, looking up all doctors listed in the article and locating charts and such that would prove or disprove what was said in the article. Wish I still had it all! I didn't find as much as I would have liked, but I did find enough to support some of the claims. Enough to say "Hmmmm."
__________________
Garden of Francis
HS Elementary Montessori Training
Montessori Nuggets
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
aussieannie wrote:
We do not believe the vacs work at all, but better hygiene is the issue.
|
|
|
just asking, because I really am curious - do you feel that smallpox was eradicated due to better hygiene, and that the smallpox vax didn't "work at all"?
really - not challenging you, just asking.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
i have been unhappy about the Gardasil vaccine since the get-go. my older dd didn't get it - it was up to her at her last dr appt, but we talked about it, and I am glad she decided against it.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aussieannie
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 21 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7251
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
No, a perfectly fine question Laura  No, I don't believe vacc had anything to do with smallpox rates, the stats I've seen indicate it went down in the countries that didn't vacc simultaneously with the countries that introduced vacc.
__________________
Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I did a lot of research 10-11 years ago.. and found some pretty clear numbers that the decline of smallpox (and others I think) started with documented improvements in sanitation and nutrition, rose when vaccination was required and then started to decline again. AND that for the last 20 years that the small pox vaccine was given the only known cases of small pox were FROM THE VACCINE.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 7:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
| AND that for the last 20 years that the small pox vaccine was given the only known cases of small pox were FROM THE VACCINE. |
|
|
but they don't use the smallpox virus. it is a related virus, but not smallpox. so it could be a similar disease, but not actually smallpox.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
well that is why I pointed out how long ago it was.. I do know there was something that was attributed as to the vaccine as the only _________ for the last 20 years of using the vaccine.. hmmm maybe it was deaths? that the only deaths associated with smallpox were from the vaccination?
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
smallpox just scares the snot out of me.
i think a lot has to do with the Steven Johnsons Syndrome reaction that dd19 had as a young toddler. since then, anything speckly, rashy, pox-y looking, really, really sends me for a loop. it was terrifying.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Red Cardigan
Forum Pro
Joined: June 16 2007
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 470
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 9:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jodie, could you be thinking of polio, perhaps? In the US since the late 1970s the only documented cases of polio could be linked to the vaccine--there were no "wild" cases.
From the CDC website:
"The last cases of naturally occurring paralytic polio in the United States were in 1979, when an outbreak occurred among the Amish in several Midwestern states. From 1980 through 1999, there were 152 confirmed cases of paralytic polio cases reported. Of the 152 cases, eight cases were acquired outside the United States and imported. The last imported case caused by wild poliovirus into the United States was reported in 1993. The remaining 144 cases were vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) caused by live oral polio vaccine (OPV)."
They go on to mention that a vaccine derived case (e.g., polio transmitted from the stool or saliva of a recently vaccinated person to an unvaccinated baby) occurred in 2005; the child was not vaccinated due to immune system problems and didn't develop symptoms of polio despite its presence in the child's system.
__________________
http://www.redcardigan.blogspot.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 10:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
hmmm maybe though I got my info in 1998-99 so I wouldn't have known a lot of what you posted.. but I thought it was smallpox.. maybe I'll see if I can find anything I kept after the kids are in bed tonight.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MaryM
Board Moderator
Joined: Feb 11 2005
Location: Colorado
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13104
|
| Posted: April 03 2009 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Smallpox is considered eradicated. The last natural cases and last accidental case were in the late 1970's. Now the only known virus exists in the labratory in a couple locations.
__________________
Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Shari in NY
Forum Pro
Joined: Nov 23 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 358
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 8:56am | IP Logged
|
|
|
To vaccinate or not is a very personal decision and I have certainly noticed a change in the amount of vaccines injected into our little ones since I had my first back in 1983. It's amazing to me how many and how soon doctors start vaccines.
As to Gardasil, my daughter Tegan, researched and compiled Judicial Watch's Gardasil report. Here is a link to the pdf file if anyone wishes to see it. There have been many, many more Vaers reports filed since last June when she wrote this. This vaccine is truly heartbreaking. www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2008/JWReportFDAhpvVaccineRe cords.pdf
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
|
| Posted: April 04 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
cactus mouse wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
cactus mouse wrote:
| And - you can actually get shingles at any time after having the pox. the virus stays in you. my mother has had shingles quite a few times. they are horrible. |
|
|
Yes, but I think that it is a sign that your immunity to chicken pox is waning--like you haven't been exposed to chicken pox as much to help maintain your immunity. You can catch chicken pox from someone with shingles as well. My understanding is that in not being exposed, the virus "thinks" that it is not present in the younger population and tries to expose in this secondary manner. So, the theory is that more people will get shingles more often because of the vaccine. |
|
|
I am not honestly sure that this is right. My mother gets shingles almost every time she is exposed to the pox, and also just sometimes for no apparent reason - and as a school bus driver, and a handicapped son who would go to an institutional like "school", etc - she was exposed a lot.
I don't doubt people will get shingles from the vax one bit. you (not *you* :) are injecting the virus that stays dormant right into someone. It is only logical that shingles would be an issue. But - not as many people get shingles, even after having the pox
|
|
|
I'm not arguing Laura, but I just want to make sure I was clear cause I can't tell if you understood what I meant 
What I had heard was that, since I have had the pox and am immune, it is by being exposed *regularly* to others with the chicken pox (typically sick children) that I maintain this immunity. If my immunity wanes as an adult from lack of exposure, my chances of shingles emerging increases.
Chicken pox is a unique virus which, if it feels it is dying out in the childhood population it reintroduces itself via the adult one in the form of shingles.
So, the reason people speculate about an outbreak of shingles isn't because people will get the *from* the vaccine but because the vaccine means that fewer children are catching chicken pox producing that normal exposure of immune adults to it. Critics say that even if it cause less disease in children now, lack of exposure will mean that more people like us (who had the pox as a child and not the vaccine) will have shingles as adults.
Apparently this unique cycle has meant that chicken pox is one of the longest enduring viruses and widespread throughout the most societies throughout human history. It seems that due to its low mortality rate and its persistent means of reintroducing itself, critics of it maintain it was one of the most foolish diseases to try and vaccinate against.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
donnalynn
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 24 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 581
|
| Posted: April 15 2009 at 4:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I just wanted to pop back in again and say how much I appreciated this thread. It's been a long time since I did my research and made my decesion - maybe too long. Not that I think I would change my mind but I find that I am not as able to discuss my reasons as fluently as I once was.
I was talking about this issue with my dh and we both agree that it is too bad that there doesn't seem to be a more open communication with health officials to really track the overall differences in the health of children who are fully vaccinated and those with none or selected vaccinations.
And very interesing stuff about Las Vegas!! A far away place from my woodsy spot over here in the east!
__________________
donnalynn
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Our Lady of Good Remedy and Care
Topic: why don't you vaccinate??
