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Willa
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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Yes, we cross-posted, Cay.
Elizabeth wrote:
| When you do the counter-cultural and embrace a large family and that means having babies and teens at the same time, you pique the interest of the evil one. And in the sheer stretching and exhaustion that comes with meeting the needs of many, he finds a way in. We have to be more vigilant. |
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This is a thought-provoking point. I believe Fr Hardon says something similar -- if I can find the quote I will type it out.
It reminds me a little of when Aidan was in the hospital -- some people around us recommended that we put the other kids in school at least temporarily. We knew instinctively that this was already a vulnerable time for our family and putting them in strange circumstances where we would not have energy or focus to monitor would be a recipe for problems. Even if the kids learned nothing all year it would be better than learning too much about the wrong things.
But in our time of distraction I did let other habits and things come in that I would have been better off stopping at the source. So, hmm, thinking hard.
Maybe knowing that things are fragile in a household, it is wise to temporarily at least narrow the scope of opportunity? That wouldn't be just about technology but about other life things that couldn't be supervised easily -- but tech DOES bring outside right into the house in a way other things do not, that is very true.
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Willa
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Ruth
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I'm so thankful for this discussion. I will be following it very closely. I have spoken to some of you about this issue and reading this just confirms that what we have been doing at home is the right thing to do, although it is NOT easy. We are pushing a large boulder up a hill.
Our 19 year old is the only one with a cell phone and facebook, but the middle girls have a youtube account for all their cute and funny videos  but I'm noticing comments from strangers and now I need to monitor that even though my first instinct is to delete their accounts.
Let's continue pray for each other and our children.
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JodieLyn
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I like being "behind the times"..
Generally it's that first "rush" when it's THE thing to be doing that draws in tons of people whether they really want to use the technology or not.. and then as the popularity loses momentum is when things start coming out about risks.. oh yes.. My Space was all the rage and then word started getting out about how people were putting up indiscrete information/pictures and employers started looking people up there.. and that started to die down and then here's Facebook taking off.. and I see people that condemned My Space using Facebook. 
And apparently now Facebook is hitting that downturn and the risks are starting to get out past the hype.
I much prefer to use technology that is past all the initial hype and you can find more balanced views about what something is good for and what the risks are.
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Cay Gibson
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The reasons you mentioned above, Jodie, are why I prefer my blog so much. It's "myspace" w/ my "face" on it. No ads that I don't allow. No spam comments allowed. No one can use my pictures w/out my permission. It's truly my safe haven.
JodieLyn wrote:
and I see people that condemned My Space using Facebook.
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My children have reminded me of this. I made a big deal of MySpace a few years ago and my children were not allowed to have one.
Then they did. And they had to accept me as a "friend" or they couldn't use it. I made a MS account but never used it. Then the MS trend died out and FB took it's place.
Which brings up the point why I am on my children's Facebk accounts. Knowing that I am "over their shoulder" will, hopefully, make them more aware of what they say and show others.
But I found FB pretty fun. So now my children remind me how paranoid I was of MS and they probably wish I wasn't on FB. 
But I'm the Mom...
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chrisv664
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MarilynW wrote:
I have a question for all your Facebook ladies - I don't really understand the point of it? I am trying to understand why anyone has an account. If one of my children asks me, I want to be prepared.
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I don't have a Facebook account myself, but I know plenty of parents who opened one to monitor their teens! If their teens have an account, they have to accept their parent as a "friend"!
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Elizabeth
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Willa wrote:
Maybe knowing that things are fragile in a household, it is wise to temporarily at least narrow the scope of opportunity? That wouldn't be just about technology but about other life things that couldn't be supervised easily -- but tech DOES bring outside right into the house in a way other things do not, that is very true.
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I think this is a good point, Willa. I also think that maria and I are essentially talking about two very different situations. She's seems to be talking about an 18-year-old girl. I'm talking about a 14-year-old boy. They are at opposite ends of the teenage spectrum. In my initial post, I said: I do think they need to learn to manage the techno stuff, but not until the later teens. There's enough stress and emotion associated with the early teen years--we don't need to have to deal with the techno stuff.
In my household, I've had a new baby every time one of my boys has hit the particularly difficult early teen stage. That may never happen again. But, knowing what I do now, I would take the whole technology thing out of the equation.
I don't anticipate having the same tech problems when my daughters hit this age. I do anticipate them having the same sort of temptations I do with regard to the computer (a different thread altogether)  . I pray I'm better at navigating that than I have been with the boys. I know it's more familiar.
In all humility, I hope that I'm not paranoid. I do know that I've learned some lessons the hard way. Some things cannot be undone and some days cannot be re-lived. But I think we come from the experience a bit wiser. Of course, now I have a four year lag before my next 14-year-old boy. I can only imagine how technology will change by then .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Maria B.
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My comments on this topic are in reference to all teenagers, not just an 18 year old. That's why I said all of us have to take the maturity and age of our children into consideration in order to make the right decision. And even with that, we will make mistakes and might have to rethink past deicisons. I know I have. My "policy" for today may not be the same tomorrow!
I agree with Elizabeth 100 % when she says that teens "do need to learn the techno stuff, but not until the later teens ..."
If you see a need for your child to have use of a cell phone for emergencies/safety reasons, you can get a simple cell phone with calling abilities only - no pictures, text or movies.
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JodieLyn
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I've heard there are even cell phones that you can add numbers to and those are the only numbers that they can call (plus 911).. that sounds like a good way to start as far as a phone just for emergency use. 
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Willa
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 5:45pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| I much prefer to use technology that is past all the initial hype and you can find more balanced views about what something is good for and what the risks are. |
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Excellent point, Jodie. Our family always seems to trail in at the back of these fads and I always felt good about that, but never could pinpoint why.
I think if you come in on a later wave a lot of the kinks and concerns are already worked out somewhat in advance and you have a better map of the terrain than when you're in the forefront of the new tech.
One advantage to being poor, I guess, cause you usually can't afford to get the goodies when they first come out -- and then you get the stuff cheaper on the second or third wave, too Until a year or so ago we only had one of those BIG cell phones that only have 120 minutes on them -- we kept it in the car for emergencies. So only last year did we move to a family plan, but my 22 year old son in college is the only one besides Mom and Dad who have a cell at the moment. We're thinking of picking up one extra for whichever kid is out and about to use for emergencies.
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Willa
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stefoodie
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We have Internet through dh's company, and dial-up, so i'm just popping in to put in my .02 about this topic.
In retrospect, I would have allowed technology to come into the home a bit later; we started at age 13 or so with websites, then blogs, then forums (only here, though -- that was nice!!  ).... before the whole FB thing got started. dd-17 never got a myspace or xanga. she did get on FB, then left last year, and is now back, when she's more mature and able to control her use of time. (she echoes a lot of devin's (angie mc's dd) thoughts on the FB thread somewhere here).
absolutely agree on these points:
if you are going to let tech into your home, be prepared to monitor, monitor, monitor. i've mentioned before that i have all my dd's passwords, and i do check from time to time. i try not to abuse the privilege though. i'm friends with her friends who have "friended" me. i've only been horrified a few times with stuff some of her friends have posted, and she is mature enough to discern which friends or family she should avoid for that reason.
but i also agree with cay -- and i was just talking about this with my confessor on Saturday. what he said was that at some point you have to re-evaluate with your spouse and see when is it necessary that you let go and stop monitoring. esp. when they become adults you need to trust that you've done what you can -- since they belong to the Lord you have to trust that His grace will continue to guide them and lead them where they need to be.
absolutely true that you have to start teaching self-mastery in the early years... otherwise kids can get into a lot of trouble. i won't go into details but my kids are prone to temptation just like everyone else. if i don't have my finger on that pulse things can go down really quickly, and yes, they have, on occasion.
my confessor did say, we as parents have a right to monitor what's going on 100% since these kids are still under our roofs. putting that into practice (again, with multiple kids, esp. multiple teens) can be very difficult at times, but it must be done. but also that the continued dialogue both with dh and with the child is key. all of you have to be on the same page.
one issue that we're still figuring out is the iPod/iTunes -- e.g., the 17-yo is exposed to more songs than the 12-yo and 10-yo; we have had to really make more stringent rules about what kind of music is allowed in the house, and i've always had the rule that if i hear anything inappopriate or questionable that i can just delete the song no questions asked. our next solution will be to have a family iPod instead of individual iPods, just like in the old days when we had a family stereo and no one child had a claim to it or to the CDs played on it. and everything has to be family-friendly or it is not played at all. we have had to put this rule in place as something that the 17-yo may enjoy listeining to may not be suitable for the 7-yo.
i have a bit more to say on the subject but i have to stop here.... baby is finally asleep so i need to get my zzzz's in too.
thanks so much for this discussion, everyone!
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Elizabeth
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I dug up this column from three years ago. I'd have to say that my opinon of myspace has changed to encompass facebook. And that the effect that both have of bringing your child into the conversation of the general population of children his age extends to text messaging and AIM. In some families, it's a simple conversation and trust. In other families, it's allowing the technology but disabling certain functions and not allowing certain sites. And in some families, with some children, at some times, none of it should be allowed because it puts children who are not yet able to handle it in peril.
We all have to do what's right for our families. My caution is to be awake.Be wide awake and know what's out there and don't assume your child is immune just because he's homeschooled.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 5:58pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| In my household, I've had a new baby every time one of my boys has hit the particularly difficult early teen stage. That may never happen again. But, knowing what I do now, I would take the whole technology thing out of the equation. |
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If you get any more time at the computer, will you share what you think you would plan for next time, if there is a next time? I would love to hear. Would you just make the tech stuff temporarily off limits while you are more distracted? (I could see myself doing something like that) or are you talking about making some permanent changes? (I have a hard time imagining the Fosses without any kind of technology, since you are sort of my family's patron cyber-intercessor)
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Willa
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Willa
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| Posted: March 10 2009 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
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Oops, I must have basically crossposted with you, Elizabeth. I had more than one screen open and didn't see that you had answered my question before I sent it
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Willa
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Cay Gibson
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In addition to Ruth's prayer, I thought this sounded exactly what we needed...and we're just in time to pray the first day of the Novena.
Shared at Catholic Mom's blog:
Quote:
One day a woman emerged from confession to ST PIO OF PETRELCINA weeping profusely because he had told her that her three sons had already been lost forever, and they could have been saved if she had prayed for them.
This is confirmed by Our Blessed Mother at FATIMA: “So many souls are lost because they have no one to pray and make sacrifices for them”.
Let this not happen to any of our children. |
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And the Novena to St. Joseph:
Quote:
Prayer to St Joseph : "O Saint St Joseph, you who felt the tribulation and worry of a parent when Our Blessed Lord was lost, protect my dear children for time and eternity, may you be their father and counselor, let them like Jesus grow in age as well as in wisdom before God and men, preserve them from the corruption of this world and grant us the grace that one day we may be united in Heaven forever Amen
St Joseph pray and intercede for (name)
St Joseph pray and intercede for (name)
St Joseph pray and intercede for (name)
For I am their Mother/Father. AMEN.
St Joseph, Foster Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ and True Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, pray for the dying of this day and this night."
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Cay Gibson
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trish
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Elizabeth wrote:
I dug up this column from three years ago. I'd have to say that my opinon of myspace has changed to encompass facebook. And that the effect that both have of bringing your child into the conversation of the general population of children his age extends to text messaging and AIM. In some families, it's a simple conversation and trust. In other families, it's allowing the technology but disabling certain functions and not allowing certain sites. And in some families, with some children, at some times, none of it should be allowed because it puts children who are not yet able to handle it in peril.
We all have to do what's right for our families. My caution is to be awake.Be wide awake and know what's out there and don't assume your child is immune just because he's homeschooled. |
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I totally agree with this!!
I do think it's a maturity issue and not an age issue. My kids might be the same age as another but does it mean they should be using that technology yet? Some yes some no.
I ordered the book by Mary Beth Hicks. I still have young ones coming up and I do need to be more prepared with these ones. I'm looking forward to reading what she has to say.
Thanks Cay for putting up that Novena to St. Joseph. And Ruth's prayer is beautiful!!!
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trish
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We moms and dads need all the supernatural help we can get!
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Willa
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trish wrote:
| I do think it's a maturity issue and not an age issue. My kids might be the same age as another but does it mean they should be using that technology yet? Some yes some no. |
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Just a question that's come up in my mind that I am going to be thinking over. How do you discern maturity?
If I had to answer my own question right now I would probably say "step by step".
We were quite cautious when my first set of kids got into technology. We moved forward very carefully, always making sure they knew they had no "rights" of privacy or habitual use with regard to media we didn't fully understand yet. We tried to emphasize that it was a powerful tool, but with possibilities for both good and evil, so the good needed to be focused on and the evil guarded against. This seemed to work fairly well. They understood that it was a formational process and that the parents needed to be the one using the judgment and making the decisions and that we would slowly hand more over to them as they showed their trustworthiness.
I've become a bit less careful with the next run of kids. Partly out of familiarity. We are more used to technology and that has set up a habit of acceptance. Also, I think it's easier to be very watchful with the first set of kids, because everything is new. I find myself more distractable with the younger ones. In some ways this is good because I think older kids generally deal with more anxiety on their parents' part. However, it has drawbacks when things are changing SO fast.
I also think that perhaps because we've gotten so many good things out of the internet and other media that it becomes harder for me to maintain the wariness. I suppose like any other good thing -- say, Boy Scouts. You tend to trust it because of the good, but forget that human nature is still involved and a parent's job is to be wise as well as trusting.
I guess what I'm thinking is that it's time to dust off the habit of caution just a bit and move back to the step by step conditional approach with the younger set of kids. That took some effort but it paid off.
The thing is, with a child's development into mature adulthood, it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back type thing. We HAVE to allow the opportunity to try out adulthood and perhaps make a mistake, and we also have to protect from life-event type mistakes and be able to retract privileges for a season when there is no corresponding display of responsibility. This is not easy and I think that makes sense to me of what Elizabeth said about putting back water under the bridge. I was just reading what Charlotte Mason said about "watching at the place of the letting out of the waters". She didn't mean stifling the letting-out altogether, just keeping watch. If the "waters" gush too fast, it's hard to stem the tide, there's a momentum there that takes on a life of its own. I think that is how I understand what Elizabeth is saying, and it makes a lot of sense to me.
Just a few thoughts -- thanks for generating this discussion, everyone. I appreciate being able to talk this out with other mothers.
By the way, we have a family IPod, Stef. No personal ones until the kids are old enough to buy their own, and so far, no one has. It's not set in stone but right now that's the way it looks best to me. They listen to their Dad's ipod and get a wildly eclectic cultural education -- from Judy Garland and Bing Crosby to Frank Sinatra and the Clancy Brothers and through to Neil Young and Bob Dylan and Bruce Cockburn. They each have their own favorites (mostly the 19 year old and the 16 year old). It's funny to hear what they select. I guess this is as geeky as it gets : ). I'm not saying this would work for everyone; I guess this is what is working for us right now.
And we only got a family cell plan a couple of summers ago, and only the senior in college has his own phone so far, besides me and DH. We may acquire one more that is for use for whatever kid is out and about, and my daughter going to college will surely get her own. Again, I could imagine doing it differently if our needs were different, but right now, that works fine for us.
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Willa
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PDyer
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Willa wrote:
By the way, we have a family IPod, Stef.
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I am so grateful for this suggestion. My son has been expressing a greater interest in music and having an ipod particularly before he swims. Thank you Michael Phelps. Anyway, I brought up the idea of a family ipod last night and he was all for it.
Again, so grateful for the wisdom shared on this thread.
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nutmeg
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I'm still such a newbie on here, but love to visit from time to time....
I just want to say that I am so grateful for all the experience that has been shared. My oldest is only 11, and has no interest in FB or any other social networking sites... not yet at least. But through the lessons you all have learned, I'm now more sure of how I will approach this subject when it eventually does come up.
But, by then, we'll probably be doing virtual time-travel or something!
Blessings...
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stefoodie
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Willa wrote:
| How do you discern maturity? (snip) We moved forward very carefully, always making sure they knew they had no "rights" of privacy or habitual use with regard to media we didn't fully understand yet. (snip) They understood that it was a formational process and that the parents needed to be the one using the judgment and making the decisions and that we would slowly hand more over to them as they showed their trustworthiness. |
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What Willa said. One challenge we thought would be easy to handle but turned out to be anything but was the entitlement thing. Maybe it's personality, maybe it's more exposure to other kids, when our tweener became more aware of music and other forms of entertainment that other parents allowed, we were constantly put under pressure to allow him the same privileges, esp. since, as he put it, he has the money (gifts from relatives that he has been saving for years). But dd-17 worked for her iPod blogging for pay for several months (which she eventually gave up because it was eating away at time she could be studying -- though she did get good training in working and meeting deadlines, etc.) and as I said earlier, we maintain the right to delete anything we deem inappropriate at any time... With ds our limits were really tested as I believe he kept on testing trying to see if one day we would indeed cave (we haven't). But boy, I can see how a parent can really get worn down! We clearly saw the benefits of telling the kids right from early childhood:
We are not like other families. We may make decisions that you will not like, but that's okay. Each family has to find what will work for them. This is what works for us.
And really stick to that through the pre-teen, teen and maybe even through the post-teen years.
And computer use, iPods, cell phones, etc. -- they don't have a RIGHT to those. Those are privileges -- gifts we CHOOSE to share with them. And yes, we can take them away if we see that they are being influenced negatively or if they have a bad effect on the family as a whole. We've also told the older ones -- sorry, but you're the guinea pigs here. We're also feeling our way through this and that means sometimes we'll make mistakes with our decisions and maybe have to backtrack on some of them -- but bottom line is we'll keep praying and trying to discern what's best; just trust that God always leads us to what's good for us. It's not easy being the older ones but hey, dem's da breaks.
It can also get very easy (at least in our experience) to try to handle things much more gently with the olders because they're able to dialogue and really seem to understand where you're coming from and why you're doing what you're doing. But bottom line is, if they cross certain lines or prove to be untrustworthy in certain areas, you still do have to put your foot down and maintain firmness. It's an endless learning process. I have to say I am absolutely *loving* it -- learning how to parent teens and tweens after growing them from infancy. When you see eye to eye, or even when you don't but they obey anyway, or even when they make mistakes and have to apologize... and you give them another chance... it's so, so, so worth it. Was it Elizabeth, or maybe another writer here, who said -- everything's grace. It is.
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stef
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Teens and Technology
