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JennGM Forum Moderator


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Posted: Dec 12 2005 at 4:39pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
So Jenn, how do you pronounce Czestochowa? |
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Incorrectly, I'm sure! Che-stuh-ho-va?
I'm pretty good at Romance languages, but I really had a hard time picking up the basics in Poland! My sister got lost for hours, and the language barrier was scary! No words were recognizable in the Polish language! And because so many foreigners were there, we didn't get inundated as much as I wanted in the Polish culture.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM Forum Moderator


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Posted: Dec 12 2005 at 4:48pm | IP Logged
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Here is a pronunciation guide, but it makes it harder than I can figure!
Czestochowa
another guide
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Tina P. Forum All-Star


Joined: June 28 2005 Location: N/A
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Posted: Dec 13 2005 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
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Some day when I grow up, I might import Polish Pottery into America for you Americans who are hungry for solid stoneware. It's sturdy. And it's not just blue and white anymore. There are lovely floral patterns. Wish I could take you all on a field trip right now... Oh the casserole dishes and the pie plates, the candy dishes, the roasters (yes, with lids), and I could go on and on...
__________________ Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
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Rachel May Forum All-Star

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Posted: Dec 13 2005 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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jenngm67 wrote:
Rachel, your posts always bring a smile to my face.
There are different recipes of Babka, you just need a Polish version. I can find a few for you! I keep recommending this book, but it's great for very detailed instructions for all sorts of breads from around the world: Celebration Breads by Betsy Oppenneer. For Poland she has a Babka and Paczki. The latter is for Fat Tuesday.
And to comment on the Our Lady of Czestochowa....One of my cherished memories is attending the World Youth Day in Czestochowa, Poland in 1991. To see the Marian devotion of the Poles and visit the actual shrine was so moving.
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Jenn,
Just the cover of that book made me drool. And was that an advent wreath or something for St. Lucy's Feast pictured there? I've added the book to my newly started Amazon wish list.
It sounds like you have lead an interesting life! I'm hoping to go to Poland while one of my very Catholic friends is in Germany, but I think I should learn to pronounce Wojtyla first. I can butcher Czestochowa smoothly enough.
I don't need to buy any pottery though. They sell it at the base exchanges in Hawaii of all places.
Thinking a little more about Poland, I'm curious how this book is Childhood of World Figures: John Paul II. My kids aren't quite at this reading level yet, but soon, I trust.
__________________ Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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JennGM Forum Moderator


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Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 10:28am | IP Logged
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Rachel May wrote:
jenngm67 wrote:
Rachel, your posts always bring a smile to my face.
There are different recipes of Babka, you just need a Polish version. I can find a few for you! I keep recommending this book, but it's great for very detailed instructions for all sorts of breads from around the world: Celebration Breads by Betsy Oppenneer. For Poland she has a Babka and Paczki. The latter is for Fat Tuesday. |
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Jenn,
Just the cover of that book made me drool. And was that an advent wreath or something for St. Lucy's Feast pictured there? I've added the book to my newly started Amazon wish list. |
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Sorry for not responding sooner. Had to pull out the book to verify...yes, it's the wreath for St. Lucia.
Rachel May wrote:
It sounds like you have lead an interesting life! I'm hoping to go to Poland while one of my very Catholic friends is in Germany, but I think I should learn to pronounce Wojtyla first. I can butcher Czestochowa smoothly enough.  |
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The way I'm learning a few of these pronunciatins is listening to Witness to Hope on audio.
Rachel May wrote:
I don't need to buy any pottery though. They sell it at the base exchanges in Hawaii of all places. |
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I've heard that some of the bases have the best deals on Polish pottery. I so want to buy some, but there are some things I would like first...like a piano maybe? Pricey, I know. It's on my wish list, but we haven't gotten one yet. This time of year I really miss it, because I love playing the Christmas carols, and trying out new ones I find from around the world. I was at my mother's house yesterday playing through some Polish carol which was just so beautiful! Cant' remember the name...I'll have to go back and get the title!
So, searching I found some Polish Christmas carols sites: Polish Christmas and
Polish Christmas Carols all sorts of midi files.
Ehow has a How to celebrate a Polish Christmas Eve. Number 1 was already a stumbling block! How can you do all that in one day...and fasting no less!
My mother has wondered/commented on some of the traditional Christmas Eve traditions. Ukraines, Poles, Italians, French, have VERY elaborate multi-course meals for Christmas Eve. Where does the Midnight Mass fit in to the schedule?
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Elizabeth Founder

Real Learning
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Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 10:34am | IP Logged
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Love that last link Jenn! As to how to fit in Midnight Mass: Dinner began fairly early and was leisurely. Then (and I think this is key), traditional Italians--whether in Italy or as new immigrants here--walked to the village church. It was a good ol' stretch your legs and wake up kind of walk. I think we forget that ethnic, neighobrhood village church so often because we are living in sprawling suburbia with giant regional churches. I'm betting it was the same for the Poles.
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM Forum Moderator


Joined: Feb 07 2005 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
Love that last link Jenn! As to how to fit in Midnight Mass: Dinner began fairly early and was leisurely. Then (and I think this is key), traditional Italians--whether in Italy or as new immigrants here--walked to the village church. It was a good ol' stretch your legs and wake up kind of walk. I think we forget that ethnic, neighobrhood village church so often because we are living in sprawling suburbia with giant regional churches. I'm betting it was the same for the Poles. |
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That's where my mother had some "problems"...in her (and my) feast day celebrations. She felt that Mass should come first, then the feast! I have a friend who has a Christmas Eve party before Midnight Mass and my mother would never attend...she felt it should be "fast before the feast"...She's got high standards!
But we didn't have any ethnic traditions or familial traditions on Christmas Eve...they decided what to implement in our own family. For years it was preparation, getting ready for midnight Mass. And for years it was a long drive to DC, go early for a good seat, so home by 2:00 am or so, then open gifts, have breakfast and then to bed.
Then that changed, because the late night was just too hard, and everyone was cranky on the holy day!
But I digress!
Wish we had the neighborhood churches. Everything is just out of kilter around here.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Rachel May Forum All-Star

Joined: June 24 2005 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
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My friend Liz in Hawaii had family from a very small, rural, poor town in Poland. I remember her talking about her visit there adn saying that although the people there had very little money, every one really dressed up for mass on Sunday. I definitely miss that. In Hawaii our boys were the only ones in long pants and shoes for mass.
Jenn, Have you tried a university piano sale? We had to buy one when we got here. I'm not a great pianist so we weren't picky, we just needed something for me to plunk along on and for the kids to learn on. We ended up with a Kendall for less than $2000 and free financing. The tuner couldn't say enough about what a durable piano it was.
As for Polish Christmas Eve, I don't think I could do it. I can hardly fast anymore, and I move pretty slowly too. I think I'll just look forward with my newly acquired Italian New Year's Eve tradition, lobster at midnight. No midnight mas to interfere with that dinner...
__________________ Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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Elizabeth Founder

Real Learning
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Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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We've always done Mass first, usually the first Mass Christmas Eve. And then we've done the feast.I've stuck pretty closely to a traditional Italian Christmas Eve feast. This year, dh is directing Mass from the Basilica. It's "Midnight Mass" but it's really at 10:30 with Carols and Bells before. I think we're going to attempt it with the kids. Mike won't be in the pew with us but he'll get us down there and he'll help me carry sleeping children to the van. We don't do a Santa thing Christmas morning, so I think they'll sleep in...I hope they'll sleep in...Has anyone else done Midnight Mass with kids? MacBeth, what's the tradition in your Polish parish?
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM Forum Moderator


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Posted: Dec 20 2005 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Rachel May wrote:
Jenn, Have you tried a university piano sale? We had to buy one when we got here. I'm not a great pianist so we weren't picky, we just needed something for me to plunk along on and for the kids to learn on. We ended up with a Kendall for less than $2000 and free financing. The tuner couldn't say enough about what a durable piano it was. |
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Thanks, Rachel May. I'm just cleaning out my inbox. We will look at that. I think this isn't going to happen after Christmas...it's a process. Budget, brand, size, budget, quality and durability and budget again. I was told by Jordan Kitts to read The Piano Book to understand different makes in a piano. This is updated in newer editions and probably at most libraries. I was hoping to GET to my library before leaving for our Christmas trip at M-I-L, but alas!
Rachel May wrote:
As for Polish Christmas Eve, I don't think I could do it. I can hardly fast anymore, and I move pretty slowly too. |
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I have never been able to fast. But now it's not an obligation...before Vatican II it was required. Thank God!
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM Forum Moderator


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Posted: Dec 20 2005 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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I want to recommend a little pamphlet I by chance picked up at a used book sale. I have not been able to read through it all, but I know at least Elizabeth will love love it. It's called Catholic Life in Poland, a Press Survey, printed by Pax Association in 1974. I saw a few used copies on www.bookfinder.com starting at $5.00. Here's the intro and you'll see why it's a gem. There exists a prevalent opinion that the IIIrd Session of the Synod of Bishops (the IVth since the beginning) differs qualitatively from the previous sessions. Some bishops have stressed out that only now they understand the essence and the necessity of the existence of this institution serving [the] Pope with the information and counsels.
In the Polish Catholic press of December 1974 there have appeared many articles making attempts to evaluate the Synod in Rome. We chose from them the article by Card. Karol Wojtyla, Archbishop of Cracow Diocese, since many years profoundly engaged in the works of Synod. This extensive article can [sic] be published abridged, however. The first chapter continues:
Evangelization in the modern world is the subject of an extensive article by Card. Karol Wojtyla, published in Tygodnik Powszechny (nos 51-52). The article is a revised text of the lecture delivered by Card. Wojtyla towards the end of the Synod of Bishops at the Papal Institute for Church studies, a Polish centre run by Jesuit Fathers. Our Review extensively reported on the initiatives of Polish Catholicism during the preparatory stages of the Synod, and later, on Polish reactions to synodal developments. We are now presenting a slightly abridged version of Card. Wojtyla's article. It should prove interesting also because of the Cardinal's great personal contribution to the work of the Synod, appreciated by his appointment as a member of the permanent council of the Synod.
As Card. Wojtyla points out himself, the article is rather personal in character, since the author deals with this all-Church event, which the Synod was, on the basis of his own personal experience. The article is not meant to be a scientifically based analysis of individual documents or developments, but rather a collection of spontaneous reflections voiced by a participant and treated for publication purposes.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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MacBeth Forum All-Star

Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005 Location: New York
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Posted: Dec 21 2005 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
MacBeth, what's the tradition in your Polish parish? |
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"Midnight Mass" is at 10:30 in English, and midnight in Polish. Trip will serve in English, so we will all go, but I don't have any really little ones. We have done 10:30 several times with the kids, but not midnight. We will also be at the indult at 8:30 the next morning, then Libby is playing two Masses at St. Greg's...so it is probably just as well that our "midnight" is early .
__________________ God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
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Mary G Forum All-Star


Joined: Feb 07 2005 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 5:48am | IP Logged
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An FYI for all you Polish-heritage folks (and you wannabes too, of course ) -- today, January 17th is the 60th Anniversary of Polish Liberation Day.
A complete misnomer as the Poles switched the tyranny of Hitler's German for the tyranny of Stalin's Russia....but that's the way of history sometimes.
__________________ MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Elizabeth Founder

Real Learning
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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 6:20am | IP Logged
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Okay, so maybe that's the nudge I needed. I was trying to figure out which name of Mary to study next. Our Lady of Czestochowa? Anybody in?
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Mary G Forum All-Star


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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 6:23am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth -- I did an article for the NCRegister about the Shrine and JP2's love of the Queen of Poland. If you'd like, I can email you some photos and the text of the article.
__________________ MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Elizabeth Founder

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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 7:09am | IP Logged
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Thanks Mary! That would be great!
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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guitarnan Forum Moderator


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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 8:09am | IP Logged
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Mary,
Could I please get a copy as well?
Lately I've been drawn toward a study of John Paul II, but my daughter is clearly drawn to learn more about Our Lady. Your article would be a blessing for us both.
Thanks,
__________________ Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Elizabeth Founder

Real Learning
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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 8:26am | IP Logged
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If it's a Word document, I can upload it to the Blessed Mother Notebook thread.
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MaryM Board Moderator


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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 11:12am | IP Logged
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Mary G. wrote:
-- today, January 17th is the 60th Anniversary of Polish Liberation Day.
A complete misnomer as the Poles switched the tyranny of Hitler's German for the tyranny of Stalin's Russia....but that's the way of history sometimes. |
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Thanks for the heads up, Mary G. We'll make a point to celebrate our Polish heritage here.
Poland has such a history of being opressed by outside forces so many times throughout their history. Interestingly many Our Lady of Czestochowa (also known as Our Lady of Jasna Gora ) miracles are associated with the protection from outside/invading forces. So I'm glad it was suggested we do the study of her now.
-During her stay in Constantinople, she is reported to have frightened the besieging Saracens away from the city.
-In 1655 a small group of Polish defenders was able to drive off a much larger army of Swedish invaders from the sanctuary.
-It is also recorded that Our Lady dispersed an army of Russian invaders by an apparition at the River Vistula
on September 15, 1920.
-During WWII under German occupation, the faithful made pilgimages as a show of defiance. That spirit deepened during the atheistic years of Soviet-enforced communism. Government attempts to stop the pilgrimages failed.
-In the early 1980's, Walesa placed an Our Lady of Czestochowa lapel pin on his jacket. Poles knew it to be a subversive message.
__________________ Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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ALmom Forum All-Star

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Posted: Jan 17 2006 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
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If you are doing a general study of Polish history and culture, you may want to look up the free web page from CHC - they have some free printables on the martyrs of the holocaust from different countries, including Poland.
Sorry I just now saw your question about midnight Mass with littles - hope it went well. We always do it - this year with ages 3 to 18.
Janet
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