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JennGM
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 8:48pm | IP Logged
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And me again, I was just trying to make the point that it's a supernatural idea of death and suffering compared to the violence we see and hear elsewhere. Again, I'm sorry if I used your example to make you feel bad. It wasn't meant to be.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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mrsgranola
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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Hey, Cay and all-- today we listened to the Glory Story CD about Katherine Drexel. She's one that lived until a ripe old age -she was eighty-something...
just thought I'd share that for those of you wanting to tell you children that some saints DO live long lives...
JoAnna
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 8:01am | IP Logged
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Finally getting a chance to respond here, Sarah....I'll add my approach here for what it's worth...
Sarah M wrote:
| I wonder if I'm being overprotective, but all of my motherly instincts scream against exposing my kids to the gore- the mechanism of death- that I do think they will be disturbed by. |
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I think follow both of these promptings here. Your plan for Lent is a good one. And, if you have children that are extremely sensitive, there is no need to go into the mechanics of martyrdom at this time. In time, there will be opportunity to build on this. Think of teaching the Saints uncovering one layer at a time each year. Trust and follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit in this, at times you may reveal more than you had originally planned. I think you can approach the Saints, even the martyrs in a gentle and lovely way. These great Saints helped pave the road to heaven for us...their example of heroic faith is valuable.
Teaching the Saints...in general
I think in looking back over the years in my home what has been important was that we offered information in layers that we could build on. So, I never ran away from the Saints and their holy example. I began by focusing on their life, their example of holiness. I revealed the life of the Saints in a way that invited questions and reflection (or at least I tried to). And, I didn't push. If a child asked for more details, I was honest and gave it always emphasizing God's gift of grace in that Saint's soul and the great love that Saint has for God to make that sacrifice. My point with the "layers" is that I think it's important to always be truthful (no matter how hard it is) so that there is an honest foundation there for the next time this saint comes up and the child may be ready for more information.
I remember it was hard to explain to my dd about St. Maximilian Kolbe's execution. I was moved to tears explaining it, but she took it all in and I believe that God's grace allowed his example to be a powerful witness to her at a very young age.
I follow the liturgical year and Holy Mother Church offers me all of her saints of the calendar for the children to learn from. This provides balance - so we can spend a lot of time focusing on St. Therese as well as St.s Perpetua and Felicity (martyrs). I think Holy Mother Church is a wise and loving mother. I follow her lead. I don't teach randomly. This allows for a natural unfolding of details with each new year.
Regarding books and the "how-to" of it all
I follow along with Cay's Catholic Mosaic. I've added a number of books that I've found along the way to fill in the year. Over the years, I have built a nice library of books on the Saints, some I prefer more than others. Many of those books have already been listed on this thread! What an awesome resource this thread is for building a library! I have to go back and bookmark some I have not yet collected!
Each morning I read from Saints: A Year in Faith and Art for the Saint of the Day. I pre-read these each week for two reasons - we attend the Latin Mass after the Holy Father's Motu Proprio and therefore follow the traditional calendar which is slightly different from the current calendar so I may read about two saints each day (the one from the current calendar and the saint from the traditional calendar) **and** because some of the sacred art is quite realistic. St. Sebastian is pierced with arrows, the martyrdom of St. Paul Miki and companions is moving. I was concerned about these images. One day, I tried to read without showing the artwork, but the boys informed me they had looked ahead and then they began discussing the martyrdom in awestruck tones and with admiration. I sat stunned.
The growing family, older children, and boys and girls!
Over the years, I have observed:
***The more varied in ages my family becomes (mine range from 12 - 1), the more we simply discuss with candor. The discussion of certain martyrs comes up naturally within the context of history with the older two. It is natural that my younger children will be exposed to these discussions. I'm aware and sensitive to their presence, but God is teaching me to "shelter" less and let them approach Him more. I try to always choose words that express my great awe of a martyr's act of faith, and a gentle expression of a life sometimes characterized by great suffering. There is beauty in that example. Any time there is beauty (and there is always beauty in Our Lord, His saints and their lives) a gentle expression can be accomplished.
***Boys have a natural, God-made desire to fight, protect, defend. For a young boy, hearing of martyrdom and other holy heroes nurtures in them a noble desire to fight on behalf of God's kingdom. I don't want to blanket stereotype all boys, but I have a very, very sensitive young man who cries if a baby fly is swatted (actually happened!) but who longs to hear of these heroes of God. In observing boys I see this to be true. Boys are hard-wired this way. And, don't be frightened when they *want* to see images of these martyrs. That's a boy thing.
***Girls are made to nurture. They want to mother everyone into happiness and order. My dd is quite drawn to the heroic example of St. Maria Goretti and St. Philomena so I think there is a place in their hearts for these holy martyrs. But, this may be why you're sensing some of this, Sarah. Your two oldest are girls, right? Just follow their lead, they may not need as much information about a martyr as your little guy will want eventually. A simple, "he chose to die because he loved God so much" may be sufficient.
***Children are equipped with more grace than I suspect and I often underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit in their souls. They see with great clarity. I must be careful that I do not convey in my reaction a tone of horror, for though evil motivates the act of martyrdom, the Saint's acceptance overpowers that evil rendering it useless and that is a beautiful thing. I try to always allow the focus of any saint be the operation of grace in a saint's soul and that saint's cooperation with grace. Would that I could be a fraction so cooperative with grace!
So...summary...
...follow your children's lead!
...don't underestimate the great power of grace in their souls to communicate these mysteries to them!
...don't avoid Our Lord's Passion, His Cross (there can be no Resurrection without the Cross), and the saints who gave everything as a testament of their faith and love for Him. Jesus told us to let the children come to Him...gently bring them to the Good Shepherd.
...know that where Our Lord is, there is beauty and truth. These can always be expressed in tones of gentleness and awe.
...TRUST that the Holy Spirit prompts YOU to know and teach YOUR children with sensitivity and love. Follow the Holy Spirit and you absolutely will NOT go wrong!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 8:02am | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| Sometimes martydom is found in "living" the faith than in "dying" for the faith. |
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I just finished In This House of Brede last week. One quote that keeps sticking with me is something like "Martyrdom by pinpricks can still be very painful."
I think that martyrdom in this sense is still a dying--a dying to self that is slow and anguishing. I do envision saints living joyfully as you describe--what makes them saints is finding that joy amidst the suffering and dying.
Of course, articulating that to a child is hard since I'm not sure I fully get it myself! It is hard to communicate the joy and happiness of saints since it is a complete paradox by the world's definition.
Also, I was pondering how the more dramatic deaths of martyrdom are not confined to the distant past--they just aren't recognized in our modern textbooks or secular news media. This century probably had as many such martyrs in its horrors. It has been estimated that the greatest number of priests ever assembled together in one place was in a German concentration camp (I can't remember which one)--more than any of the councils, jubilees, etc... And then the horrors of communist regimes in persecuting Christians even more so than Hitler in WWII. And what about Christians who are actively persecuted violently all over the world right now? I shudder to think of parents who must tell their children these stories in order to prepare them for the real possibility of becoming a martyr! 
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 8:25am | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| I just finished In This House of Brede last week. |
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Love this book. 
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I think that martyrdom in this sense is still a dying--a dying to self that is slow and anguishing. |
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So true.
CrunchyMom wrote:
| I do envision saints living joyfully as you describe--what makes them saints is finding that joy amidst the suffering and dying. |
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Exactly!
CrunchyMom wrote:
| Of course, articulating that to a child is hard since I'm not sure I fully get it myself! It is hard to communicate the joy and happiness of saints since it is a complete paradox by the world's definition. |
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Yes, it is tremendously hard and I don't think it can be done except to children who have some kind of "stamp" on their soul.
[ETA: I also don't think it can be explained. This type of "joy and happiness" has to be experienced on a very personal level.]
I am in my 40's now and did not understand the "joy and happiness" found in suffering until I was in my 30's.
And I still avoid suffering if at all possible. Know what I mean? 
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
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missionfamily
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 8:41am | IP Logged
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I am just having a chance to catch up on reading here and think most of what could be said to help Sarah meet her children's needs has been said.
Being a mom of all boys who have always loved the stories of brave martyrs, I don't have much to add on that end.
I do however think it is important for us to remember that martyred or not, there is no one who reaches sanctity without suffering and sorrow. The cross is part of the journey. I think it is important that we find ways to let our kids know that sufferings, both small and great, are part of the path to holiness.
I agree unequivocally that this can be done gently and in awarenes of their sensitivity levels, but I do think most of the stories we read focus not only on the person's holy acts but also on their sufferings and internal spiritual sufferings because that's the stuff of heroism. And saints weren't just really good, they were heroic.
My kids were so struck this month getting to know St. Bernadette better and seeing the big picture of her life and how much more there was to her story than just her seeing Our Lady as a little girl. They were inspired by her courage and her willingness to suffer well. It was moving to see them develop a more full view of this great saint than just "the little girl who saw Mary at Lourdes".
While I would encourage any mom to be sensitive to her children's hearts and minds with regards to the faith, I would also encourage her to look for ways to talk about the universal nature of suffering and the heroic way in which all saints embraced it. I think it is an indispensable part of their character formation.
Just my two cents.
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Colleen
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Matilda
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged
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Thank you Colleen! Your two cents are very timely for us. My 11yo son wants to read A Story of A Soul for Lent because he read a story about St. Therese who found the rattling rosary beads of the nun next to her such a huge distraction. St. Therese wanted to stare her down until she stopped but instead she listened to the rattling as closely as she could and imagined it a beautiful symphony for Jesus. For a young man who finds his sister's singing and chattering an annoyance, this story made a big impression. We talked about this being a small suffering that St. Therese turned into a big sacrifice and he really seemed to get a lot from this one simple example.
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with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| And I still avoid suffering if at all possible. Know what I mean? |
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Unfortunately, I know all too well what you mean
Thank you, Sarah, for starting this discussion. I know how personal it can sometimes seem when people start hashing things out over a question you started--especially if it seems they are disagreeing. Its been helpful in my getting a handle on my own thoughts and digesting those of other moms here, too, including yours.
I think this is especially fruitful for me because I am a convert. I've discovered that the conversion of my mind to "thinking Catholic" has been slow, and seeking to understand suffering and pain has been part of that. It is hard for me to figure which things came to me later because I simply was not in a Catholic environment as a child and how many things have come later just because I'm an adult now and my understanding is more mature. This discernment is a challenge for me!
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Kristin
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| Posted: Feb 26 2009 at 12:45pm | IP Logged
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I just wanted to add one more thing about Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, a little more food for thought for those who are looking to CGS as a guide to faith formation at home.
A very important concept applied in the Atrium 1 is that all the materials, as well as the words and actions of the catechist, should be "essential". Over time, Gianna Gobbi and Sophia Cavaletti have discovered which themes are at the very heart of what children this age are drawn to. The very heart of it for children of this age is a love relationship between God, the Good Shepherd, and the child.
I think it was JennGM that spoke about CGS not being intended to be the only faith formation for these children. I'd like to chime in with that by saying that the saints and stories from the Bible (those which are not presented in Atrium 1, like the creation) would examples of beautiful aspects of our faith that children are not really exposed to in the Atrium (because it is not essential) but that doesn't mean that parents should [italics]avoid[/italics] these topics.
Our trainer gave us an example of how a child responded with a little confusion when a catechist mentioned guardian angels. It didn't make sense to the child that she needed a guardian angel when she knew how well, and with how much love, the good shepherd protects and takes care of her! To speak of Guardian Angels in the Atrium could be considered straying from the "essential". With that being said, I must say that to me speaking about our angels from the earliest ages is so natural and important!
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Learning about the saints....gently
